FLIRTING: GOOD, BAD and the UGLY

Aaah! Flirting. Everyone woman loves it – when it’s done right. Unfortunately, some men do not know the right ways in which to flirt and to hold a woman’s interest and attraction, b/c they may not fully understand how women communicate much differently from them as men.

 Flirting is done in so many different ways based on a man’s personality, the setting he is in, and the woman. I think the key to being successful at flirting and creating that push pull kind of situation where the woman is kept highly engaged is that a man has to really know and understand communication styles as well as how women often communicate differently than men.

 Me personally, I fall for the charming guys. They are typically quite engaging and know the right amount of balance between flattery and they often know how to keep moving in and out of flirting, flattery and regular conversation. Charming guys are well aware of the communication differences between men and women generally and in social settings – and as a result are able to keep women engaged. They use these guidelines on how female communicate etc., to know whether or not to pursue, not pursue, to keep going or to back off. IOW’s a charming guy will never FORCE anything b/c he is aware of his boundaries and limitations. But he will also push for the close based on gaining enough info from the women’s indirect positive response.

 The good thing is there is no one-size-fits-all approach for many charming men and I have found a variety of styles they use based on the setting they are in, possibly their mood and depending on their mission. Down further I will break down the different types of charming men I have come across over time.

 FIRST THINGS FIRST – WOMEN’S BODY LANGUAGE  / FACIAL EXPRESSIONS – KNOW IT!

 Okay not many men are charming and here’s why – THEY DON’T GET WOMEN’S NON VERBAL CUES, BODY LANGUAGE AND FACIAL EXPRESSIONS. As a result they either force too much or pull back too much b/c they don’t know how to read. This can be frustrating for women b/c if a woman in fact wants a guy to move it forward, but he does not really understand her body language is telling him to do so, he’ll clam up and back off. Or if a woman has no interest and is showing this through body language and the guy keeps forcing iignoring the obvious that is also frustrating and can make for an ugly situation depending on the woman and her mood.

 This is soooooo important. Yes we as individuals are unique but as genders there are quite a bit of things that we all typically do similarly  in different situations. Women have  pretty much the same ways of communicating and showing interest in men.

“YES” Body language = “SHUT UP AND ASK FOR MY PHONE NUMBER, ADDRESS, or THE THREAD COUNT OF THE SHEETS WE’LL BE GETTIN BUSY ON” and “NO” body language = “SHUT UP, KEEP IT MOVING,  and/or SECURITY!!!”

 A woman will IMMEDIATLEY let a man know (usually through her body language and interactions with him) if she likes him “in that way”. This is where men need to be more observant and aware of non-verbal cues b/c women are masters in giving nonverbal cues.

 In fact, women are much more comfortable in giving nonverbal cues to men b/c it takes the onus off of us to have be the one who is coming off as the pursuer and/or we feel we don’t have to DIRECTLY say how we are feeling that may make a situation awkward or uncomfortable. IOW’s a woman would rather send nonverbal cues that say “I have no interest. Not feeling you in that way” than have to come out directly and say it. Unfortunately, a lot of men push women to the latter b/c they overlook very tell signs of non interest.  As a result the woman either ignores him or tells him flat out it’s not that kind of party.

I feel men really need to work at truly understanding how women communicate through their body language and by using nonverbal cues and/or hints to be successful in getting women and engaging them. But often when men have their eyes on a prize they don’t stop going after it until it’s either obtained or until it’s solidly not available to him (through directly being told she has no interest). Some men don’t even pursue the prize (although it’s there for the taking) b/c they cannot read a woman’s interest.

SIGNALS of non-romantic interest:

*** Avoiding eye contact (BIGGEST SIGN EVER)

*** Being very cordial and platonic.

*** Not responding to or avoiding  flirty banter and playful banter (even when he is trying)

*** Closed off body language (i.e. standing at distance, folded arms, body moved away from yours, trying to avoid eye contact). 

 Also, if you are out and look at a woman and she turns and averts her eyes away fairly quickly from you (not wanting to maintain any eye contact) as you look at her, that can mean 1 of 2 things:

 (1)    she doesn’t want to talk to you and averting her eyes away means no interest

(2)    She is really shy and doesn’t know how to respond to a man’s gaze.

 In this case you have to make a decision. If you are a risk taker with a “what the hell” kind of mindset and feel the girl may be shy (which doesn’t necessarily mean uninterested), then I say go for it. But if you aren’t sure or deep down feels that look away from you as you looked at her is a signal that she doesn’t wanna be bothered, then please do not try to force and interaction.

 When a woman likes a guy her body language is more open and direct and her facial expressions will express that. Whether she is letting him know that it’s okay to approach her or whether you are in mid conversation with her.

 Initially women will always hold a man’s gaze if he is interested, looks her way and she likes what she sees as well. She will hold 3-5 seconds (possibly with slight smile), then look away very subtly,  then look back. CHA CHING! That means it’s a green light!  

 That is much different from her averting eyes away and NEVER looking back (which means she is not interested.) Also, the NON romantic interest body language and facial expressions points I listed will be the reverse when a woman has an interest.

CHA CHING!  HAS BEEN CASHED IN AND YOU’RE NOW IN CONVERSATION/FLIRT MODE

 Women continue to show through body language and facial expressions their interest even after a guy has approached them. When he is talking with her or flirting,  her responsive positive “yes” body language will always be somewhat big:

— Open eyes

—  Direct eye contact

— Giggling,  laughing,

— touching playfully or just slightly when interacting

— Body is moved more inward to his even when standing apart

— Almost everything he says is funny

— She can’t stop smiling and she is very engaged at everything you say

 The point I am making is, women are very complex, but very simple when it comes to one thing – if we want or like a man, we will not waste time giving in to his advances.  Also, if you know a woman on  regular basis and pursuing her for intimacy, do not mistake a woman holding out on intimacy until a relationship or trust has been established,  with a woman simply having zero interest in EVER being intimate with you in any kind of way.  There is a huge difference. If I am attracted to a guy but I am not willing or ready to sleep with him, he will still know my attraction to him. If I am not ever interested in romantic or intimacy with a man, he will also know fairly soon. This is the case with most women as well.

 A MANS NATURE AND A WOMAN’S NURTURE (and vice versa) CAN BE HARMONIOUS IF MEN  LEARN TO RESPOND TO,  UNDERSTAND, EMBRACE AND COME TO TERMS WITH  LOVE WOMEN’S NON VERBAL CUES

 I feel this is the BIGGEST mistake men make when it comes to women they are interested in. . Whether it be a situation where a guy is out in a public or social setting and wants to approach a woman, he often does not know what to look for in terms of her giving him cues and hints (through body language) that he is welcome to come and talk to her.

 I’m gonna beat this horse till it’s dead about the friendship thing, b/c  this especially applies in cases where a man is befriending a woman thinking this is the easiest and best Segway to gain romantic interest.

 Honestly I think men do this b/c  its nature vs. nurture for them. I believe b/c men are much more practical and typically straight forward they have a hard time reading subtle hints and non-verbal cues and non-direct forms of communication from women especially.  And this is how a lot of guys get turned down or friend zoned and later confused at “what happened” when he dropped the hammer and the girl suddenly has to tell him directly “I don’t see you in a romantic way”.

 Women will ALWAYS, ALWAYS give you a hint or clue as to whether they are attracted to you in some way or as more than a friend. And it’s usually IMMEDIATLEY. But the issue is, it’s rarely ever directly communicated (verbally) by a woman as to whether she likes you in a romantic way or not. I believe this is nurture for women b/c women are raised to be nice, caring and to avoid hurting people’s feelings. 

 Men OTOH,  are raised to be more direct and straightforward and to not feel guilty about hurting someone’s feelings. This is why men will almost NEVER end up with a woman he is not attracted to AT ALL, and why most women will and can force themselves to be with a guy who she is really not attracted to b/c she doesn’t want to seem mean or hurt his feelings or b/c she feels it’s the right thing to do to not let him down since he “is a nice guy”.

 Also, directness for many women is considered a masculine trait and so young girls are raised to avoid being too direct – especially if it may make someone feel bad.  So you have women who use other not so direct  forms of communication to express what we are feeling. Just know that BODY LANGUAGE& FACIAL EXPRESIONS is a woman’s direct form of communication for ANYTHING – even in non-romantic settings.  And this is what we use with men in general to communicate how we feel about them and where they stand.

 CHARMING MAN ROLL CALL!

CHARMING MAN I – THE DRIVE BY CHARMER

 A charming man already knows what level he plans on going with a woman before he even talks or says a word to her. Sometimes he just wants to flirt and say something complimentary but keep it short, simple, sweet b/c he really has  no interest on really moving things beyond that (may possibly already be taken, time constraints, etc).

  Example:

One day at work I was walking out of a building back to my car. A well dressed and handsome man who was walking past me looked at me and said “beautiful” with a flirty smile and kept going. Now I’m sure some smart arse in the audience is saying to themselves “Uuuh Neecy, actually he was talking about that hot drop top beamer that was parked right behind you”. OH BLAH! 🙄

 Well, after making the compliment (to the hot drop top beamer 😆 ), he didn’t look back, didn’t try to stop me and talk he just said his flattery and kept on going. And I thought that was awesome. I say that b/c a lot of times many men feel every woman he sees out in public that he finds attractive should be pursued. A charming high value man will not just feel the need to try to level every attractive chick he sees out. Some of his pleasure derives from lighting a spark in a woman for just a moment and then leaving her with that.

 This is what I love about charming men. They do not feel the need to corner every woman they may see as physically attractive. They may make a simple comment to let the woman know “he likey” and that’s it. And when a guy does this, ALL women are going to have a better day and feel good on the inside. And in my eyes part of a man’s charm is that he can create a spark in a woman and sometimes leave it at that. He uses even the smallest things to make a woman feel slightly good without compromising himself to look like a desperate dweeb supplicating to her.

 CHARMING MAN II – THE SOLID BRASS PICTURE FRAME

 This guy is all about maintaining a strong frame and controlling every step of the “getting to the next level/closing” process, so that the close and leveling is pretty much a no brainer “YES” from the woman. He’s not gonna come right out and ask you for the digies even though you know eventually he will. He’s not going to come right out and say you look “hot” or whatever. He’s not going to be TOTALLY direct about his intentions until he has you in the palm of his hands. You know ladies that guy where he is talking to you about everything under the sun and  God knows what and you know he is going to try to level but he’s basically teasing you and all you can think about is saying “SHUT UP AND ASK FOR MY PHONE NUMBER ALREADY DAMMIT!”.

  Mmm hmm, gotta love those ones too. This kind of charming man is feeling you out every step of the way and as he learns (through your open body language, facial expression,  and motions) more about your heightened attraction, he slowly moves closer and closer to the close making you more anxious. This kind of guy needs to know before he closes that he already has the close (if you feel what I am saying). So by the time he asks for the next step it’s already a 90% chance you are going to say “yes” b/c he built your anxiousness and saw that based on your verbal and/or  nonverbal cues pointing in the direction of “RAVAGE.ME.NOW!. Thanks 😀 “

 As anxious as a woman may be with a charming guy who is using small talk as his Segway to level, you gotta let this kind of guy do things his way b/c the big thing for him is control and frame. By making small talk but still subtly hinting that he is interested, he is keeping his frame from being too focused on the way you look or the fact that he likes you. He is basically leading the way to the next level  but doing it very slowly and precisely so that it’s an easier close for both you and him and no awkwardness whatsoever when he finally does ask for your phone number or whatever that next step would be.

Also a guy like this is able to keep things in a timing aspect b/c eventually he will level at the right time that he feels he has you in the palm of his hands.

 Usually this approach  works best and ONLY  usually in a setting where the woman or he  is not too rushed. Mostly approaches like this work in an already social setting where people are mingling and socializing. This approach wouldn’t really work outside of that b/c it takes time and both people need to be somewhat relaxed with no concern about the next 5 minutes.

 CHARMING MAN III – THE TEASER PLEASER & THE BANTER PANTHER

 He’s the playful “negger” and teaser with good intentions. He busts your chops and flirts with you at the same time.  His approach is to keep you from thinking too much about the fact the he’s prolly trying to get in your drawls or to get to know you better (i.e. phone number). The last thing on your mind is his intentions to get you in the bed (if that is his intention). He’s keeping things light and fun to take the pressure and possibly awkwardness off of himself and even you  – but more so himself.

 This guy is cleaver and creative and ballsy in a good way. He knows how far to go and he has quick knee jerk responses to  create playful bantering. He wants you to give him back just as much as he is giving you – but mostly he seeks to keep you a bit off balance and unexpecting and even doing more giggling and laughing and playfully touching him.

But he isn’t so amusing and funny that he throws you off when he drops the hammer. This charming yet funny guy is well aware of how much funny and flirty go hand in hand to create a nice balance and easy transition for himself and you. He’s maintaining control and frame but in a more humorous way.

This is where if you are a guy that is not good with humor and it’s not really your best attribute, then please don’t do it. B/C what you will end up doing is looking like you are trying. you won’t have the off the cuff witty and cleaver teasing and bantering, and most of all you will get sidetracked with being too funny that it will be REEEEALY awkward once you try to shift to a more serious state to ask for her phone number.

 This kind of approach needs to be leveled with teasing YET with flirting so that it’s not a weird or awkward transition to later ask her for the digits. IOW’s the playful banter/teasing needs to always have a foundation in showing an intimate interest and need to move to the next level.  Basically, there should be no surprises when you go from cracking a joke and she’s in tears laughing and just as she is catching her breathe from laughing so hard you drop the hammer and ask for her number and she’s like “WTF?”.

 (There was a great example of this on a post some months back on heartiste’s. A guy posted a clip from the movie “DEPARTED” with Matt Damon.  It was an elevator scene with a woman and it awesomely showed the right amount of playful/flirty banter with a woman he saw in the elevator and was able to close before she was out of the elevator. I tried looking it up but couldn’t find the post.)

 A live example I can think of is there was a guy I worked with and I *felt* he was interested but wasn’t really sure. Eventually I thought he was just being a nice guy, but then he dropped the hammer and I was like “HUH where’d that come from!” LOL. IOW’s he was always joking with me and making me laugh but he never really flirted with me in the process. So after a while the original idea I had that he had an interest faded and I suddenly believed he was just a funny guy who loved to joke around and tease. So I thought nothing of it. Well one day he got serious and after a bit of laughing at his jokes and things he just came out and asked me if he could call me. It was just a little awkward and weird b/c it threw me off guard since it was so unexpected and b/c he quickly went from one mood to another. I am not saying it’s a bad thing, but it is awkward when you do too much playful teasing and bantering without mixing in your interest so that when you drop the hammer it’s no surprise to her and she was kinda expecting that all the teasing and flirting was a means to an end.

 CHARMING MAN IV – THE JAGERMEISTER SHOT WITH NO CHASER (the flirty risk taker) 

 He’s direct but not in a creepy way. He’s pretty much going to shoot first and ask questions later. But he doesn’t do it in an overly aggressive way that turns you off. This charmer is just more of a risk taker than anything. Instead of writing out what he does I’ll give you a couple examples that I felt worked well.

It seems that most of the best flirts and/or openers  from men I have received was in a stressful situations. I believe that a man who is a stranger than can take a woman he doesn’t even know out of her stressful or frustrating mindset is awesome.

 Situaiton 1

THE SPORTS BAR HOTTIE

 Several months ago I was meeting a friend at a sports bar for dinner and drinks. I happened to get there before she did and while I was waiting I decided to go and sit in the bar section and was seated near the end of the table next to a party of guys.

 Well one guy I saw kept looking over at me and I am sure he saw I was obviously waiting for someone and that I was a bit anxious b/c I was looking around for her b/c she was very very late. Anyway after  about 30 mins. of waiting for my friend I was not happy.

 So I pulled out my cell phone to call her and as I am about to dial he says “Calling me? I’m right here. Did you not see me when you came in? “ (haha! TIGHT) and he added something else but I just thought that was awesome timing. I liked the fact that he also took a risk b/c I could have easily been waiting for my b/f, husband or another man and he still took that risk.  I’m sure he had been thinking of probably another approach b/c I kept seeing him eyeing me the whole time and I guess he saw it was the perfect time to do a creative opener on me (taking a risk) obviously b/c I had the look of frustration on my face and b/c I was also waiting for someone. And it worked like a charm! It opened up the door for more conversation and we ended up exchanging numbers (too bad he lived too far away) Oh wells.

 But the point is that guy took a risk and had a really creative opener (at least I thought so) to position himself for further discussion if he wanted to move it forward, based on my response which was laughter ( I even told him that was a good one and his buddies even laughed approvingly at his quick and creative opener), he saw the door was open to talk further.

 Situation 2

 THE CUTE VALET GUY BRIAN AT A CERTAIN HOTEL IN VEGAS

 One example of how a guy was able to create fun and flirty banter in a creative way and which I thought was charming of him in this particular stressful situation was a couple months ago when  I was in Vegas and I went to park in the valet. I even remembered this dude’s name  — BRIAN! (Neecy is reaally really bad too at remembering names).

 Anyway, The valet was SUUUUPER crowded and busy and the wait to leave your car was insane. So when I finally got close to the front after being HIGHLY frustrated and irritated with the wait, the crazies who kept honking, cutting in front of people etc.,, one of the valet guys (who was a TOTAL cutie and was being hounded by some lunatic bitching about his car and was obviously having a bad night as well) already gaged I was really frustrated and I could also tell he was a bit frustrated as well.

 As he started to walk towards my car I was letting down my window &  I started to go on complaining about how I needed to get my car back right away, how I couldn’t keep waiting etc. He didn’t even really acknowledge any of that (lol).  He IMMEDIATLEY took me out of the state of frustration by looking and gazing at me  with a  flirty grin and then telling the loony who was stalking him  to “hold on for one sec”  and before I could say anything more  he leaned in closer to my window and  said “You look like you’d go for this. How bout this,  I jump in drivers,  you scoot to over to the  passenger’s side, and  I’ll  aero plane off these cars in front and  we can both escape from this hell?” LOL!  I just let out this big ass laugh and he stood there (still in his solid frame with a slight smile and that knowing look on his face) while  I giggled and laughed for about 30-40 seconds.  The flirting continued from there once he saw I responded favorably. I also kept eye contact with him.

It’s as simple as that. No need for roses, candies, serenades, poems, etc. Just creative flirty banter that costs nothing and helps you to gain a woman’s interest

He was risky enough to test my resolve in a frustrating situation for both he and I. And he did it in a non-threatening but fun way. I’m positive almost any woman would have responded in the same favorable way.

Basically what I am saying is women LOOOOVE creativity and we also like guys who are *somewhat* risk takers (very different from being aggressively rude)  in that they are unafraid to do or say something simple to gauge our interest or attraction to him.

 SAFE  WAYS TO GAUGE A WOMAN’S SEXUAL INTEREST & PUSH PULL

 I think however, most men should take the safer route to gauging than risky, until he has mastered and had a lot of favorable reactions under his belt.

Push pull is easy when interacting with a woman when you are taking more of the teasing/playful approach and mixing it in with a little seriousness and showing of interest. IOW’s the woman is being pushed & pulled in different directions but in a good and exciting way.  Also a man that can push pull in a flirting situation shows he is a bit more complex in his ability to not have a one track way of interacting with a woman. Most men flirt and show interest in one manner and keep going on that same route until they close. That’s fine but if you plan on interacting and engaging the woman for more than a few minutes, she’ll eventually start getting bored and want to end the conversation or she’ll start looking for outs (looking around for friends or others to mingle with).

Other men can mix things up and still stay on course and keep the woman engaged.

Some things I would suggest is playful teasing and flirty banter but not too much that she doesn’t realize you are interested in her. A woman will get the idea that you like her, but you haven’t given too much of yourself without receiving anything in return. You are also safe in that you haven’t completely let the cat out of the bag, but just enough to let her know you have somewhat of a sexual or intimate interest in her.  When you take this approach and the woman is being pushed and pulled she in becoming anxious to see how you plan on moving it to the next level – so she continues to play along. Also, with playful/teasing flirty banter, the woman (if interested) will reciprocate in some way. So both parties are involved in the exchange and not solely one person doing all the pursuing. Things are very clear early on, in whether the BOTH of you are “feeling” each other.

I have found in most cases the easiest and quickest way for a man to gauge a woman’s interest is in how she responds to his flirts or playful flirty banter and eye contact. Some of the best guys know how to do this very quickly and take it from there. Whether you just met the woman or have known her this IMO is the best way to gauge interest and whether the door is open for you to move it to the next step.

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245 Comments (+add yours?)

  1. Neecy
    Jan 26, 2012 @ 11:03:47

    Marellus i forgot to cover the creepy factor but we can surely cover it in the discusion.

    Also ladies please feel free to add any other kinds of “charmers” that I may not have listed.

    CREEPY?
    — staring at a woman after she has shown no interest
    — pushing for more after a woman has completely and directly told you “no” she is not interested
    — staring
    — flashing her your genitals underneath a rain coat in 80 degree weather
    — talking about your fetish for feet and toes
    — Telling her you eat live babies (heheheheheee! had to throw that in there)
    — staring
    — not taking no for an answer
    — begging
    — losing your shit if she turns you do
    — telling her you remind her of your mother

    haha I am sure there is more 😉

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    • Sophia
      Jan 26, 2012 @ 21:28:44

      I think you addressed this under “not taking no for answer” but that is the scariest one.
      In one instance it manifested into me hurtling myself into a cab in order to escape a dude who would not stop following me. What I should have additionally done was call 911 and reported him to the police.
      Actions like this ruin it for other men cause after that I had to put on “game face” when out in public instead of being my usual smiley self and deliberately avoided eye contact in case I attracted another nutter.
      Thankfully, I reverted back to my usual self after a couple of weeks.

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  2. Firepower
    Jan 26, 2012 @ 12:13:04

    this chapter, coupled with previous is a GREAT how-to on backstage hunting etiquette at the Guns n’ Roses concert – BUT do you think those old school rules still applie in ’12?

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    • Neecy
      Jan 26, 2012 @ 12:22:12

      Basically these approaches are not made for skanks nor will they work on them. That’s all I’m gonna say about that. Do what works best for you and the type of woman you are seeking. 🙂

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  3. Zorro
    Jan 26, 2012 @ 12:38:28

    the easiest and best Segway to gain romantic interest…

    Segway: an overpriced, motorized device for transporting a lazy mofo who is allergic to walking.

    segue: proceed to what follows without pause; used as a direction in music.

    That was funny! Was that on purpose? *muah*

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  4. Firepower
    Jan 26, 2012 @ 13:07:45

    hah – skanks need love too! dont be a hater. good girls can be boriing. aintcha heard: skanks are the new “girl you bring home to ma”

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    • Neecy
      Jan 26, 2012 @ 13:13:31

      Being a skank these days is soo easy that almost every woman is doing it. Yeah skanks run the SMP these days — so much that a woman that isn’t a skank is considered “boring”. Such is life. As I said every man has to determine their approach for the target. I can’t help with targeting skanks since it wouldn’t require much work or thought to begin with — and since I have no interest in being one or interacting with men who chase and pursue them I can only speak for men who want to attract higher quality females 😉

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      • Firepower
        Jan 26, 2012 @ 13:23:02

        interesting…WHAT do you think
        of crabby girls

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      • Sophia
        Jan 26, 2012 @ 16:37:30

        Interesting that u mention skanks. I was talking to a friend of mine about the man I’m dating. She asked if I slept with him yet. I replied no. She said I better jump in the sack with him fast cause if I don’t, someone else will. I mentioned to her if he wanted a bed mate he could easily score one, since he’s a man of position and means. She disagreed so I just changed the subject.
        And she is not a skank herself btw. Neither of us are. She is still hung up on an alpha type guy who romanced and sexed her faster than she wanted, and then dumped her afterwards. You’d think she would have learned.
        But the skank attitude is so pervasive and widespread.

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        • MK
          Jan 26, 2012 @ 18:10:10

          Every situation is unique so generalizing doesn’t do a lot of good.

          To her she lost her alpha because of fate note because she was a fast conquest and lost interest.

          Yours may wait or may not. Either way don’t generalize that the early onset (or lack there of) of sex led to a change either way. Small samples are not telling and correlation does not equal causation.

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          • Sophia
            Jan 26, 2012 @ 19:19:51

            MK, generalizations, which are used extensively here and on the heartiste blog, as well as in lots of internet type of discussions, are one method for discussing abstract ideas. Not the best tool, but just one of many.
            Having said that, my friend, who I know very well, would not have slept with the alpha male had she not been infected with the idea that not having sex quickly with a desirable man like him means she would lose him.
            I think the PUA blogs try to give men the tools to bed women the same night they meet ’em, and I recall even reading the blogmaster at CH saying that if a a girl doesn’t give it up by the third date then it was time to cut her loose.
            It’s this sort of pervasive societal thinking that cheapens sex and collectively lowers’ everyone’s values that made my non-skanky friend jump into bed too soon with her alpha male, without having him invest enough time in her. The dropoff in interest after he slept with her was too stark to attribute it to “fate” or anything other than what it was; he lost interest.
            She knows it and her friends know it. It’s due to sensitivity to her feelings that no one pointed it out forcefully although I was tempted to when she suggested I make the same error as her and jump into sex too soon with my guy.

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            • Matt
              Jan 26, 2012 @ 23:07:36

              This is very true Sophia.

              Just to play Devil’s Avocate though, the other side of the coin for men is that the longer they spend in a relationship with a woman that does not include sex, the more likely they are to be thrown into the dreaded “Friend Zone”.

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              • Sophia
                Jan 27, 2012 @ 09:15:14

                If a girl likes a guy she will be giving signals that she likes him. If he is dragging it out, the signals will get stronger until he gets it. Guys that are slotted to the Friend Zone are guys who were there from the beginning.
                I don’t think the Friend Zone is that bad btw. I know of men who were slotted as friends initially manage to become romantic partners after the girl got to know them and see their attractive qualities.

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                • Neecy
                  Jan 27, 2012 @ 09:35:37

                  If he is dragging it out, the signals will get stronger until he gets it. Guys that are slotted to the Friend Zone are guys who were there from the beginning.

                  BINGO!

                  Although I still don’t really advise men to “stick around” hoping for the day sh emakes him a romantic interest. too many men do this only to become bitter and angry later. A man is better off reading the signals up front and moving on and not prolonging things.

                  If he still chooses ot be her friend he should do it with no expectations afte rthe signals have been given and should definitley be seeing other girls. if that day comes and they look into each other’s eyes and fall in love – GREAT. But at least he wouldn’t be consciously or physically hanging around *WAITING* for that day that may never come.

                  Its just a waste of a lot of time and energy on a man’s part to stay int he friend zone hoping for more.

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                  • Liza207
                    Jan 27, 2012 @ 09:40:44

                    I agree with this too. We pretty much friend-zone them within a few minutes upon meeting them. I wish they would just understand this about us.

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                    • Neecy
                      Jan 27, 2012 @ 09:45:41

                      YEP and that is why I pointed out in the post the IMPORTANCE for men to start learning and understanding women’s non verbal cues. Most women will not tell a man directly he is being friend zoned b/c she is not attracted to him in that way. Its a man’s job to protect his best interests at all times to not be strung along as a friend, just as its a woman’s JOB to protect her best interest’s and not become a pump n dump.

                      The best and ONLY way a man can effectivley do this is by learning to read signals an understand clearly that a woman knows IMMEDIATLEY if she wants you as a romantic interest or not. yeah there are excpetions but its not the general rule that it takes a woman time to start having attraciton towards a guy.

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                    • Matt
                      Jan 30, 2012 @ 20:02:11

                      I’m not sure it would be a good thing for men to understand that about women. You’d end up with this kind of situation. Probably often. 😉

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                    • Neecy
                      Jan 31, 2012 @ 22:21:04

                      OMG that is HORRIBLE! lol!

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              • Neecy
                Jan 27, 2012 @ 09:22:19

                MAAAAAATTTTT!!!

                (is this th eold Matt or new Matt first)?

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            • MK
              Jan 27, 2012 @ 04:51:26

              Your correct about generalizations they are useful for making an 80-20 winning strategy. Don’t get me wrong I think your doing the right thing vs. your friend when generalizations apply if your goal is a relationship vs. sex.

              There is probably some sweet spot for sex where you’d be viewed as higher worth for waiting but not so long that your considered frigged/sexually repressed. One general your right to wait if your trying to be perceived as high quality, but how long do you wait?

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              • Sophia
                Jan 27, 2012 @ 09:21:11

                MK, that is the million dollar question, isn’t it? Like Liza mentioned below, as someone who is a tad conservative, I would prefer to wait until I’m in an exclusive relationship. Otherwise, the insecurity and vulnerability would mess with my head.
                However, for various reasons, it seems that my competitors in the dating market place put out very fast, which is why people like my friend are advising me to sleep sooner rather than later.
                I don’t want to be strategic about this. Essentially, I want to actually know someone before sleeping with them. It’s a comfort thing.

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                • Liza207
                  Jan 27, 2012 @ 09:26:43

                  Sophia, it is very comforting and gives you a deep sense of security when a commitment is established first. The sex is much better for you, too.

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                  • Neecy
                    Jan 27, 2012 @ 09:41:00

                    I agree. No woman really wants to feel like she is just a piece of ass to a man she really likes. The best way to avoid this feeling is for a woman to protect her best interests and wait until the man has committed to her. At least if things don’t work out both parties got what they needed. there’s no worse feeling than believeing that sleeping with a guy will make him committ to you or like you better only to be DUMPED afterwards. But hey, its not a man’s repsonsibility to protect the best interests of women he is not dating or married ot so if the woman would rather think more about a man than herself FIRST and foremost, then she deserves what she gets IMO. That may sound cruel but I’m not for making excuses for grown ass women anymore. Women make htier decisions and will have to live with them. they are not children or teenagers anymore and need to start learning the concept of LOOKING out for one’s best interest and thier body. If they don’t too bad they’ll be pumped and dumped.

                    I personally cannot enjoy sex with a stranger or with a man that I’m not in a relationship with. I just wouldn’t be able to fully open myself up and enjoy it b/c I alway sbelieve the best sex is with a person you KNOW like and/or love.

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                    • Liza207
                      Jan 27, 2012 @ 09:52:34

                      That may sound cruel but I’m not for making excuses for grown ass women anymore. Women make htier decisions and will have to live with them. they are not children or teenagers anymore and need to start learning the concept of LOOKING out for one’s best interest and thier body. If they don’t too bad they’ll be pumped and dumped.
                      —–

                      This! I don’t feel sorry for them either. Just like I don’t feel sorry for battered women–yeah, that is harsh but we know the deal with those situations, right?

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            • Firepower
              Jan 30, 2012 @ 09:12:37

              lol – if that’s what you really think.

              women always
              lie to themselves

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          • Neecy
            Jan 26, 2012 @ 19:26:45

            Very true. IMO A man who is not necessarily tied to a women in a committed relationship or no relationship status has been officialized, he will not sleep with another woman simply b/c the current woman he is getting to know won’t. If a man wants to sleep with another woman he’ll do it whether he is getting it from another woman or not. if a man wants to wait and be monogamous with one woman HE WILL DO IT whether she slept with him early or not.

            The point is the woman has to protect herself and always seek to never be used for sex by a man she wants to be with. if he’s going to leave simply b/c of sex then so be it is my thought. he never saw the woman as anythign more than a piece of ass if all he was doing was sticking aorunbd to get sex. The best way for a woman to do this, is to NOT sleep with a man too early before any kind of relationship or trust has been established.

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            • Liza207
              Jan 27, 2012 @ 07:54:05

              Neecy and Sophia,

              I am totally about making sure that exclusivity is established before sex because once a woman sleeps with a guy who has not committed to her in some way–it is likely that he won’t respect her or take her seriously. That is what a lot of women are doing these days; they are giving it up in order to get a relationship and a commitment–completely ass backwards.

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              • Liza207
                Jan 27, 2012 @ 08:13:27

                Another thing, delaying sex does not mean that a woman is not attracted to the guy or that he will be friend-zoned. There are other things couples can do to express sexual attraction to one another until they have intercourse (God, I hate having to use this word): sexting, sexy banter, phone sex, sexy IMing, sey emails, oral sex (A bit sketchy, though) and so on. You can fan the flames a bit without going all the way, right?

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                • Neecy
                  Jan 27, 2012 @ 09:51:46

                  Agree here too. Thatis why i pointed out that a man should also knwo the difference between a woman holding out on intimacy yet still being attracted to him vs. a woman not ever wanting to have intimacy with him b/c she is not attracted to him.

                  And yes there are other things a man and woman looking to get to the stages of a committed relationship can do that can be sexualy enjoyable without having to actually have any kind of sex. The things you mentioned are great examples.

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              • Firepower
                Jan 31, 2012 @ 11:43:44

                lol, dont pay no attention to sophia
                she just wants to try girls now
                and blog about it for
                attention

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            • Sophia
              Jan 27, 2012 @ 09:21:52

              Agreed with your points Neecy. Trust has to be established.

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        • Neecy
          Jan 26, 2012 @ 19:14:46

          She said I better jump in the sack with him fast cause if I don’t, someone else will.

          This mentality with women today is really STUPID and sad! Whether you sleep with him or not if he wants to bed another woman HE WILL. its not going ot be based on whether you give it up to him or not. That is what these women today can’t seem to understand. A man will do things on his own account based on what HE wants to do and usually a woman will have no bearing on this – unless he is married or possibly in a LTR. and they wonder why they are always being pumped and dumped? UGH. It’s as if women have desperatley settled for doing any and everything to “keep a man around” and that still doesn’t even work in the end. This is why i say women have ruined the SMP with this mentality. I am not saying your friend is a skank of any sort, but the mentality is of a desperate “do anything including fast easy sex” with a man if you want to keep him around. As i have said before its sad how so many women simply don’t effin get it. 🙄

          I more than often run into men who are the beneficiaries of this kind of female mentality and therefore see you as a leper b/c you refuse to give into that way of thinking.

          Obviously, that route didn’t work for her and she slept with that Alpha dude pretty early and still got dumped.

          I have friends or acquantenances who try to offer me advice and it goes through one ear and out the other based on their history with men and the things they have done to keep a man around. The only females I will ever listen to are the ones who think like me and act like me and are completely on the same page.

          I think you have done the right thing Sophia by waiting. If you are not feeling that you are ready to go there with him, then DON’T no matter if he bounces or not.The reality is there is no guarantee that if you slept with him early that he would still stick around. So I don’t think you have anything to lose by protecting yourself. if he leaves, he leaves. At least you were not just another typical chick who would have given into him b/c he has it like that.

          i have lost out on some attractive dudes with a lot going for them simply b/c of hte sex issue and I am GLAD to have walked away unscathed and not being another notch under thier belt.

          patience pays off in the end – it may take a long damn time, but i believe in its virtue no matter how tempted I get to fall off and give in.

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      • chic noir
        Jan 26, 2012 @ 19:00:44

        Being a skank these days is soo easy that almost every woman is doing it.

        NO ma’im. I ain’t buying this one. There is a proportion of women who act this way but I don’t it’s even half much less most.

        *chic noir orders drink from the bartender places purse on hook and climbs on bar stool*

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        • Neecy
          Jan 26, 2012 @ 19:30:30

          HEY CHIC!

          So glad to hear you have not joined the ranks of skanks (hehe has a nice ring to it) in the SMP.

          But i have to disagree that there are not more skanks than decent women out there. the reason that men can get away with so much in the SMP today is simply b/c women have cheapened and lowered their sexual value as well as sex. Sex is something MANY women out there use today as a “get to know me” tool and men are happier than pigs in shit b/c they can easily almost bed any woman these days without much work or effort and damn sure without having to be in committed monogamous relationshp with them.

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          • Sophia
            Jan 26, 2012 @ 20:29:30

            I kinda see chic’s point, Neecy. I read about loose standards and free and easy sex but to personalize it a bit, I actually don’t know many women who act like that.

            I know, I know, the plural of anecdote is not data but I wonder if this is not limited to certain socio-economic and racial classes. In my sample group which is mainly 1st generation, lots of the women got married with a very low count of men, and this is a group that ranges from late-twenties to mid thirties.

            Maybe it’s my irrational positivity but I think this “non-skanky” factor, plus a good dose of femininity, positions women like us well in the SMP. It’s gives us a great competitive advantage when it comes to LTRs, at least when it comes to nabbing quality men. I certainly don’t think it has hurt me at the individual level, although it is a different matter on a more collective basis. The more “skanky” other women act, the better we look.

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            • Neecy
              Jan 26, 2012 @ 20:46:45

              Ok now I see yours and Chic’s point. I do see a lot of skankiness in Souhtern Cali but i also see a fair share of decent quality women with decent quality men. I have to admit I had a couple of close friends i have known since college (one moved here) who are really bad when it comes to casual sex. Interestingly, we have drifted apart very much in the last year – i don’t even talk much with one anymore. i don’t think friendships like that can work as people mature and have different contrasting values and morals. We’re just so different

              And you are right, these women started early. i had a later start and missed out on most of my prime years by not having taking care of my body. but i am positive I would have been married had I had a better perspective about myself back then.

              I completely have faith that decent women do eventually meet the right guy and that is why I have held out b/c I know this deep down. Its just that its very hard and takes quite a bit of time B/C of how the SMP is today with so many men having options to never have to commit to get things like sex and women who will act like a wife or g/f without having the title or the actual relationship status of such.

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          • chic noir
            Jan 26, 2012 @ 20:36:41

            Sex is something MANY women out there use today as a “get to know me” tool

            I hope it isn’t many but a few. Anyway this is a grave mistake. One a man has gotten the cookie, there is no reason for him to stick around. A woman also loses power in a relationship after the man has “had his way” with her.

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            • Neecy
              Jan 26, 2012 @ 20:57:12

              Chic,

              There are A LOT of women out there who are sleeping around with dude after dude and they think its okay b/c they are told its “EMPOWERING” for a woman to be able to sleep around with any man she chooses. This is what Western Feminism has told and encouraged women to do. Yet they do not like the feeling they get when the guys never committ to them afterwards and are often seriously wondering “Why won’t any of the guys I sleep with settle down with me”.

              I have a feeling that you may not be American and American and Western women are quite affected by feminism that promotes this kind of behavior with women. Most other cultures the women are not taught to embrace promiscuity.

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              • Sophia
                Jan 26, 2012 @ 21:18:33

                You are right Neecy. Even though I don’t see this phenomena in my social circles and networks, I do read about it.
                You recall the infamous powerpoint presentation list done by the girl at Duke University? I think she slept with something like 10 men in the duration of her short university life. My assumption is that this is not abnormal for her milieu. It’s all the more surprising cause I’ll bet you she and her friends likely will end up getting married to nice young men, with her history not impacting her too negatively. I think this is one of the successes ( or failures, depending on your viewpoint) of Western style feminism, which is the minimization of consequences for promiscuity.

                I shudder to think what would have happened to the girl in a lot of other cultures. She would have been disowned, at the very BEST.

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                • Neecy
                  Jan 26, 2012 @ 21:24:53

                  It’s all the more surprising cause I’ll bet you she and her friends likely will end up getting married to nice young men, with her history not impacting her too negatively.

                  Oh don’t get me and Liza started on this. But the reality is A Western Whiet woman can live that life in her younger years (sleepign with all kinds of men and even have some Black and Latinos under her belt) and will still be exalted by the White Beta schlub with resources and money as she looks to settle down and marry later in life.

                  This is how it works for many Western White women. Spend most of you ryoung prime years screwing around like mad and then when they start getting at the ages where they can no longer pull off that lifestyle they start looking for WHite male “beta provider” types that will be happy to marry them and give them the good life for thier second half of womanhood.

                  Really, if many Western American WW can get away with having htier cake and eating it to, do you think they will stop? HECK NO! that is why they don’t care about the “slut” stigmas b/c they know they will still find a nice guy that will marry and provide and give them his children and pretend her past life never happened. Happens all day everyday in America.

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                • Omerta327
                  Jan 27, 2012 @ 07:38:30

                  I shudder to think what would have happened to the girl in a lot of other cultures. She would have been disowned, at the very BEST.

                  Disowned? Maybe. Shamed? Absolutely.

                  People, men and women, are actually shamed for such things in other cultures.

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            • Omerta327
              Jan 27, 2012 @ 07:17:30

              chic noir: One a man has gotten the cookie, there is no reason for him to stick around.

              Unless the cookie’s good. 😉

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              • Liza207
                Jan 27, 2012 @ 07:58:25

                Unless the cookie’s good.

                Really? She is probably some skank who has been giving it up freely to everybody else.

                I am starting to wondering about you.

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                • Omerta327
                  Jan 27, 2012 @ 08:04:01

                  Oh, come on! Can’t a guy joke around a little here?

                  You ladies are so damn serious.

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                  • Liza207
                    Jan 27, 2012 @ 08:18:39

                    I wonder if anyone was taking me seriously yesterday about wanting/liking my salad tossed. But it appears that no one got that either.

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                  • Neecy
                    Jan 27, 2012 @ 08:28:04

                    If its any constellation O, I thought the comment was funny and I knew you were joking around.

                    But seriously how can you say we’re serious on here??? Most of the time we’re having fun so we can’t be serious every once in awhile?

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                    • Liza207
                      Jan 27, 2012 @ 08:32:55

                      I guess I will have to put a smily emoticon after my comments to indicate that I am just joking.

                      By the way, I actually hate using emoticons–there I said it.

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                    • Omerta327
                      Jan 27, 2012 @ 08:33:04

                      Nothing wrong w/ being serious – I was just remarking to Liza how words on a screen can be easily misinterpreted. That’s all.

                      lol… and it’s “consolation”. The Big Dipper is a “constellation”. 😎

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                    • Neecy
                      Jan 27, 2012 @ 08:52:27

                      DON’T CHANGE WHO YOU ARE LIZA!!! We all have to love and accept each other for who we are. I am an emoticon junkie crackhead. If I could use it after ever word I would. You are not that kind of gal. its okay I wouldn’t have ya any other wa 😉 :mrgreen: 😆 😈

                      There I did enough emoticons for both you and i = hahaha!!

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                    • Neecy
                      Jan 27, 2012 @ 08:53:32

                      Oh and yeah b/c I am also afraid yall will start demanding that i get a ghost writer b/c of all the spelling mistakes I make. LOL

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                • Omerta327
                  Jan 27, 2012 @ 08:22:48

                  I tend to type in a pretty conversational manner, and I see you do as well, Liza. Sometimes, typed words can be very easily misinterpreted. I guess I need to be more mindful of that from here on out.

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                  • Liza207
                    Jan 27, 2012 @ 08:25:25

                    Yes, we should be mindful of that.

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                  • Neecy
                    Jan 27, 2012 @ 08:32:37

                    I don’t think you or anyone should change your style. I don’t think that we all have to agree or like what someone else says. But just b/c one person doesn’t agree we all shouldn’t be generalized as being too serious. . Everyone interprets differently. I knew it was a joke and maybe Liza didn’t see it that way and one day I may see soemthing soemone wrote one way and she may see it differently. Now if you change your style it may flip flop. I think consistency is always best – what I am saying is -stay the way you are – I wouldn’t love ya any other way 😉

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                • Omerta327
                  Jan 27, 2012 @ 08:47:56

                  I guess I will have to put a smily emoticon after my comments to indicate that I am just joking.

                  lol… That apparently doesn’t help, either.

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  5. zorro
    Jan 26, 2012 @ 15:19:54

    Your post is deadly accurate, if I can believe what I learned from The Flirting Bible by Fran Greene. Loaded with photos of guys and girls throwing out non-verbal cues, your post covers the bulk of the major ones. I’ve got four books on body language, but The Flirting Bible is the best for the sexy stuff.

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    • Neecy
      Jan 26, 2012 @ 19:32:55

      Z thanks for bringing this to my attention! Honestly, I just write from my experiences and observations b/c for a woman most of this stuff is natural to learn. For men i do think its takes more to learn b/c men are not always really aware of women’s communication styles or they may not be comfortable with them so they ignore it to thier own self destruction in the SMP with women.

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      • zorro
        Jan 26, 2012 @ 19:43:06

        Principally, women are far more intuitive with body language than men are, because men have four centers in the brain for communication, and women have fourteen (which is the same as men, except there’s a teen involved).

        As soon as a guy walks into a bar (say he’s had a rough day and he’s slouching), women will pick up on this instantly. Ditto for his gate, walking stride and pace. Posture, facial expressions, etc….women suck up that shit in a heartbeat. Men, being far more rational (which is to say, less intuitive), rely more on the spoken word.

        You may find it amusing that I learned a great deal about how women size up men from all those PUA/Game books I read. They really helped and pushed me into reading books on body language. An FBI guy who worked counterintelligence wrote a great one. His name is Joe Navarro (What Every Body is Saying is the title).

        I’ll tell you this: if you ever decide to write a book, PLEASE LET ME EDIT IT FOR YOU SO YOU DON’T DRIVE A PUBLISHER ONTO A BUILDING LEDGE WITH TEARS IN THEIR EYES.

        The written word. Not your strong suit.

        /neg

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        • Neecy
          Jan 26, 2012 @ 19:48:01

          hehehehe! Don’t worry Z, I am not foolish enough to think that I don’t need some MAAAAAJOR help in the editing and writing arena.

          i’m just glad you guys haven’t run away and never came back with all my horrible grammatical, spelling errors.LOL i have seen blogs where people completely THRASH the blog host for making simple spelling errors.

          You guys have been so nice and patient with me on that. Thanks! *sniff sniff*

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        • n/a
          Jan 26, 2012 @ 20:05:50

          Z,

          Actually the written word *is* her strong suit — just not the *correctly* written word. Neecy is a superb writer; I love how she writes.

          And she’s very “cleaver.” 😉

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        • Sophia
          Jan 26, 2012 @ 20:21:05

          I’ve just added the Joe Navarro book to my reading list. Great recommendation. Thanks.

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  6. n/a
    Jan 26, 2012 @ 15:43:31

    I think normal men should read this excellent and subtly hellish post and despair. 😉

    Let me explain. Neecy gives a gritty, detailed and factual account of how an attractive woman likes to be approached. It’s like hearing straight from the mouth of the snake how to charm it.–

    The most telling remark is when she advises men to pass on the “serenades and poetry” — what she really wants is not puppy-eyed romance, not yet at least — but proof of cast-iron balls and daredevil skill in knowing the exact time to jump.

    That’s women and snakes for you: absolutely unsentimental and unforgiving judges of fitness. And she will bite your ass with the poisonous sting of *creepiness* should you fail in this athletic event.

    And remember, hapless would-be-lothario — this is one of the *nicer* ones.

    ************

    I loved your examples, Neecy. Both those characters had tight game indeed. The sports bar line was great and the Vegas valet took one look and knew at once how to diffuse your rage and ignite your interest.

    Someone should link this to Roissy.

    *************

    The *already* charming man who comes across this post can only chuckle: woman is a sexy beast and she wants a man with a quick whip to game her and tame her.

    And then she wonders, in the conquered afterglow, after she’s shaken the roof with yet another full-body orgasm, why this charming man just smacks her black ass, stretches, yawns, and falls into the deepest animal sleep.

    Then she’s the one *staring* making the puppy-dog eyes of love in the dark. The human comedy is based on timing; and the timing of the sexes is very different.

    Thanks for the informative post, Neecy baby.–

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    • chic noir
      Jan 26, 2012 @ 19:23:33

      N/A

      I’m going to write up a final roissy wrapup . I being saying I would write it since last summer but I’m giving myself two weeks to write it. Should be fun and crazy.

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      • n/a
        Jan 26, 2012 @ 19:58:40

        But, chic, how can it be “final” when we’re still going strong over there? 😉

        You just *wussed out.* 😉

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        • Neecy
          Jan 26, 2012 @ 20:03:37

          Wait huh? Is there something going on i don’t know about over there? Dammity *heading to heartiste’s*

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          • n/a
            Jan 26, 2012 @ 20:07:35

            No, babe, we’re talking about the ancient past. Chic couldn’t take the heat and got out the kitchen.–

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            • Neecy
              Jan 26, 2012 @ 20:36:20

              Aaaaah. yeah well i think i had the same experience. I think when you leave and come back its better.

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              • Maya
                Jan 27, 2012 @ 13:18:52

                I wish I was able to leave … I ALWAYS find time for CH … Don’t know what to do … :S

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                • Neecy
                  Jan 27, 2012 @ 13:30:01

                  Well Maya you have to do what makes you happy. But I think you’re also becomming a very paranoid about your mating situation by being there. I was getting the same way and I am glad I stepped away for awhile.

                  being away from there a few months an focusing on my blog was the best thing i could have done for msyelf. And actually the big incident that ahppened that caused me to leave was a blessing in disguise bc I needed to step away from that place.

                  Now when I go back and visit its totally different. i am not affected at all by what is said by the posters or Heartiste himself. I take everything said with a grain of salt and I also am no longer paranoid about my age or my mating status. before that, i allowed myself to get caught up in what was said and started becomming paranoid – which is never a good thing.

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                  • Sophia
                    Jan 27, 2012 @ 14:49:35

                    That’s why I asked in another post how women can read the site articles and the commenters without losing their sanity. What I actually meant was without getting paranoid, as Neecy stated. If you are over 25 and not thin, then you might as well be dead to a lot of those posters, which flabbergasted me.
                    But then when you look around in the real world and in life, all sorts of people are getting together, fat, old, single, divorced, etc, so the sentiments on those sites are not reflective of how the world is, more like reflective of a sample of men on the margins.
                    After a couple of days reading the articles, I stopped even though the blogmaster has a really good writing style cause I know my limits and I know I’d start getting paranoid.

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                    • MK
                      Jan 27, 2012 @ 15:27:47

                      The reason is older women that have taken care of themselves do not face near the dire real life scenario that is depicted at the Chateau. To be sure age is more unkind to women then men but the market place is very skewed. An older woman isn’t going to land Kobe Bryant or the top level alphas BUT she still has the upper hand vs. most men who approach her and could easily land a decent guy if she chose to go that route. Now if she is holding out for the dream alpha of her youth that ship has sailed and her pursuit will only lead to misery.
                      No matter what anyone says it is obvious there has never been a better time in history to be an older woman especially IF she chose with pragmitism.

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                    • Maya
                      Jan 28, 2012 @ 03:23:40

                      MK,

                      “Now if she is holding out for the dream alpha of her youth that ship has sailed and her pursuit will only lead to misery.”

                      Being alone is not a misery when you compare it with settling for a man who is unfuckable.

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                    • Neecy
                      Jan 30, 2012 @ 08:15:17

                      If you are over 25 and not thin, then you might as well be dead to a lot of those posters, which flabbergasted me.

                      Sophia, I have come to learn a lot of those guys are batshit and/or severly damaged, and that is why i don’t get bothered by the crazy shit they say anymore. Like I said I believe a small percentage of the guys there (maybe 20-30%) actually are sane and just want to find out ore ways to improve thier success with women. The rest of them are bitter, batshit, AND delusional! LOL

                      As you said in the real world if you look around you, you see all kinds of people happy and in relationships. I also see many women of different ages getting married and finding love. And that is what i had to come back to reality with after starting to become paranoid after being on CH. And then I looked at my individual situation and my potential and was like “why are you listening to a bunch of delusional losers and idiots about what your potential is as a woman”. I and other women my age are still very attractive to many men of different ages so i don’t even listen to that garbage anymore. A lot of those men are damaged and they MANY of them will never be able to pull the kinds of women they believe are so grand anyway.

                      But i left and since going back and realizing that these are a small niche of men in the world and that they do not speak for normal, sane nad healthy men AT ALL, I’m no longer paranoid.

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                    • Neecy
                      Jan 30, 2012 @ 08:23:52

                      MK,

                      ITA. An older woman or woman paste the prime years still has great potential in finding and landing a decent quality mate if her head is straight and she has comfortably accepted that she is no longer in her prime.

                      Some women past prime still try to live and look like 20 year olds and they look ridiculous. A womanin her 30’s and 40’s is most attactive when she has accepted her age and is happy with herself and doesn’t try to relive her 20 years and teens years.

                      Also more women who are single past their prime also need to be more realistic about the kinds of men they will mostly attract as you said. A 37 year old woman WILL not be on track to land high status alphas for the most part (unless he’s much older), but she can still land a pretty good catch if she plays her cards right, still looks good, and has taken care of herself and has a good character and personality.

                      There are still a lot of mature minded men in the world who base a woman’s looks not on her age but how she actually looks and carries herself.

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                  • MK
                    Jan 28, 2012 @ 14:50:47

                    Enjoy your cats Maya. Change the liter every once in awhile so the neighbors don’t riot.

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                    • Maya
                      Jan 29, 2012 @ 09:58:43

                      Hey, sorry if I offended you … By unfuckable I don’t mean someone who has pointy elbows or something like that but someone who is childish, lazy, emasculated etc. – someone who would not be a good father …

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                • Liza207
                  Jan 29, 2012 @ 10:21:40

                  Maya, there was nothing I could see that was offensive about you saying that you wanted be with a man you found fuckable (oppose to someone whom you found unfuckable). It wasn’t, as if, you were quoting some long list of requirements. That is what most of us want–both men and women. We often desire someone we are sexually attracted to and there is absolutely nothing wrong with feeling that way.

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    • Neecy
      Jan 26, 2012 @ 19:44:43

      N/A

      I am not sure if you were complimenting me or actually putting me down saying that women are snakes? LOL

      The point I am making to men is that when you are getting to know a woman, she doesn’t want a softy. She wants a guy that is not afraid to go after what he wants, does it in a charming and engaging way and keeps a solid frame.

      Some guys take it overboard and end up being rude and aggressive jerks and *CERTAIN* women prefer more charming guys that (as you have mentioned before) light up a spark in her in some way. A charming man wants to make a woman feel good and comfy and he also has a goal for himself.

      A lot of men don’t know how to take both into account and either become tooo too focused on the woman and forgets about the fact he has to maintain a solid frame for hismelf as to not come off as suplicating, or some guys completely never really think about the woman in this case and just focuses only on his needs and end goal. The charming man has the ability to handle both and carried that balance I always speak of.

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      • n/a
        Jan 26, 2012 @ 19:56:39

        I praised your perspicacity but I panned the punishing standards of the SMP.

        Got that?

        My long comment may have to be re-read to be fully savored.

        I demand that you do exactly that. 🙂

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        • Neecy
          Jan 26, 2012 @ 20:00:02

          HA! Okay. this week I have had a lot of brain farts huh?

          or maybe you’re just waaay to intelligent for me and you have to dumb down your posts a bit? HAHHAHAHAAA!!! Naw just kidding. i am suuper duper smart DAMMIT. I’m just having one of those crazy weeks where I just aint gettin it.

          *Bare* with me? UH HUH! 😈

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        • Sophia
          Jan 26, 2012 @ 21:03:18

          N/A,

          Your long comment is intriguing and well written but I have to join Neecy cause I don’t think I quite grasped it.

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  7. Sophia
    Jan 26, 2012 @ 16:46:38

    Neecy, good examples of flirtatious men. Very bold, both of them.
    In TO, I get hit on conversationally, most of the time. Someone will comment on a book I’m reading, or about the long wait times if we’re waiting in line at a coffeeshop. Rarely, outside of clubs and Caribana time when American black men drive up here in droves, do I get overt direct flirtation.

    I wonder if flirting styles are geographically/nationally different as well? I think they are. Your example of drive-by-flirting was very common when I was in Cuba. The men compliment women there all the time and a lot of it is done without any expectation of reciprocated attention. In France, I had men come up to me in the middle of the street and invite me to have wine with them, which I found startling.

    The US had the mixture of all three which is one of the reasons I retain fond memories of my time there.

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    • Neecy
      Jan 26, 2012 @ 19:51:27

      Sophia,

      I htink it may vary by geography, culture and sometimes even race on how men approach women.

      Frankly, if i were a man I’d try to get a bit of all styles under my belt to use. It could never hurt to be able to have an arsenol of great ways to approach different kinds of women base don a man’s goal, the setting etc.

      Oh and what was CUBA like? They allow non citizens there?

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      • Sophia
        Jan 26, 2012 @ 20:19:14

        Cuba was wonderful the first couple of times I went there but I hear it’s getting overly developed now.
        If there is one place to see, I would recommend Havana which is a decaying, beautiful city with so much old world charm.

        Neecy, to answer your question, I am able to go there cause I’m not American 🙂
        Also, Cuba is to Canada what Mexico (pre-cartel) is to the US; a very popular destination spot.

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        • Neecy
          Jan 26, 2012 @ 20:32:10

          REAAALY? I wasn’t aware that other non American nationals could go to Cuba. I always wanted to know what it was like. is it like any other kind of Caribean like destination with crystal clear and turqoise blue water?

          Meh. oh well my dream destination trip is still BORA BORA Tahiti staying in one of those huts. Gotta do it!

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          • Sophia
            Jan 26, 2012 @ 21:06:03

            Oh yes, gorgeous beaches and turquoise water. The first time I stood on the beach, staring out at the water, I actually had tears in my eyes. Mostly in gratitude for escaping -30 degrees Canadian winter and landing in the closest thing to paradise.

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  8. chic noir
    Jan 26, 2012 @ 19:22:17

    Neicy I like this blog. There was a blk commenter on Jez who needed to some Blk female friendly spaces. I’m going to recomend this blog to her.

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  9. Neecy
    Jan 26, 2012 @ 20:34:09

    OK where in THEE hell is Marellus!!? I wrote this post especially for him cause he requested it and he is completely MIA!

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    • chic noir
      Jan 26, 2012 @ 20:42:39

      Marellus is basking in his new found alphatude of having a woman do something esp for him.

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      • Neecy
        Jan 26, 2012 @ 21:17:36

        All i know is he better get his “basking in Alpha glory” buttocks in here STAT and say somethin’!

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      • Marellus
        Jan 27, 2012 @ 07:28:33

        Miss Noir.

        You’re feisty. Keep that up, and I’m gonna sweep you off your feet. Then I’m gonna haul you off to Las Vegas … right in front of the neon potals of The House Of Wedded Bliss.

        And there we will then get married in front of some beer-bellied-born-again-Elivis … to music that sounds eerily like the national anthem of Uzbekistan …

        And from there we will honeymoon in a beautiful tinshack somewhere in the Nevada Desert … where you will pedal the generator for the aircon … while I’m inside making Cactus Brandy …

        Still think I can’t sweep you off your feet ?

        Ha.

        I’m gonna sweep you off your feet with broom that wasn’t Made In China !!!

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    • Marellus
      Jan 27, 2012 @ 07:48:28

      Neecy.

      I was in the Ituri Forest of the Democratic Peoples Republic of the Congo, where I had to advise the Chieftain of a tribe of Noble Muscled Savages, that goes gaga over the music of Mozart.

      And while the Chieftain was listening to Eine Kleine Nachtmusik he told me of his problem : It seems that they’re in need of a formidable woman with good character, that must don some ceremonial costume, and then sit on a ceremonial chair holding a big stick, while the army of Noble Savages is in Military Parade in front of her.

      This formidable woman must then usher these young men into formal manhood by calling them over one-by-one, making them bend over, and then spanking their bums.

      But they saw a picture of you, and wanted nobody else but you, to do it. They even mentioned that they were all gonna parade naked for you.

      I can’t imagine why. 😀

      Anyway, I sorted them out, came back and read your latest blog post.

      It was fantasties !!!!

      Keep ’em coming.

      And thanks. I mean it.

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  10. Neecy
    Jan 26, 2012 @ 20:48:08

    *whispering* hey you guys, guess who is in my apt. right now??? yes THE MAINTENANCE MAN!!! LOL!

    He’s fixing my shower head. Heheheheee! Be quiet okay?

    😆

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  11. Sophia
    Jan 26, 2012 @ 21:34:37

    Is he still there Neece?

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  12. zorro
    Jan 26, 2012 @ 23:37:51

    Men OTOH, are raised to be more direct and straightforward and to not feel guilty about hurting someone’s feelings.

    Not so sure about men not caring about hurting other people’s feelings. Maybe what you meant was that men–being men!–don’t worry about hurting other men’s feelings when we shoot the shit with each other, and so we are similarly direct with women sometimes. We don’t want to hurt anybody’s feelings, but we are less afraid to hurt a man’s feelings simply because men are brought up to not get in a hissy fit over stuff.

    Typical guy conversation:

    “Who do you like for the playoffs?”
    “I think the Packers have the offense to pull in the win.”
    “Dude! The Packer’s sucks hot hairy donkey balls!”
    “Go fuck yourself, Tom! The Packer’s have their game on, YOU ASSHOLE!”

    …AND NOBODY BREAKS DOWN AND CRIES. Unlike girls…

    “Becky, what do you think of Bobby?”
    “OMG! I am sooo totally into Bobby! He asked me out to see Eat, Pray, Love. I’m so going down on him after the movie.”
    “But you knew I liked Bobby! You vicious cunt!”

    See how easy it is to piss off a girl?

    Dayyum. I think I should start a blog!

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    • Neecy
      Jan 27, 2012 @ 08:50:13

      I agree Zorro. i guess what i am saying is though, that men are not made to feel guilty for saying how they really feel or for wanting what gthey want.

      Women OTOH are always made to feel bad for not wanting a guy she may not be attracted to. people are always telling women to “give him a chance”. Yet men are NOT ever expected to be with any woman he is not attracted to and they are not made to feel guilty fo it. When a man says a woman is not his type or he isn’t attracted to her, its left at that. Much different for women who are expected to make all kinds of ways and force herself to like a guy just b/c everyone *ELSE* feels she should.

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      • Omerta327
        Jan 27, 2012 @ 09:00:21

        Hmm. Maybe it has to do w/ a woman’s natural nurturing instincts?

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      • Liza207
        Jan 27, 2012 @ 09:02:25

        This is one of my biggest pet peeves. No woman should be obligated to give any man a chance once she is not attracted to him. I just want to know why any guy would want a woman who was luke warm towards him. I wonder if men ever care if a woman is fully into him or are some men just willing to be with a woman he wants really badly knowing that she is just settling for him. What is really going on there? I remember men trying desperately to convince that I should want to be with them.
        Why the f**k would you go out of your way to convince someone to love you?

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        • Neecy
          Jan 27, 2012 @ 09:13:06

          I agree Liza. But I believe that men, once they want something and want it really bad, they don’t care about the consequences and they put themselves in a line of fire to have it. So yes, even deep down they know a woman doesn’t *REALY* want them, they are happy just so long as she is with him or using him.

          Perfect example fo the super rich ugly dudes who have these beautiful women they marry and have kids with. You and everyone knows those women don’t really love them and are not really attracted to them except for their resources and money. But men still don’t care about that – they’ll even lie to themselves or overlook the obvious just to have something they want.

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        • Liza207
          Jan 27, 2012 @ 09:18:47

          I hate the way women are shamed for being into a man’s looks–My god, the browbeating.

          I have always been superficial when it comes to a man’s looks and I have never given a shit about what anyone thought about that. Women have also attempted to shame me about this as well–indoctrination.

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          • Sophia
            Jan 27, 2012 @ 09:36:35

            I am seeing more and more women value looks as a criteria for selecting a man. The friend who tried to alarm me into sleeping early with my guy is one such woman. She will not look at a man who is less good looking than an Abercrombie and Fitch model.
            Now, she has every right to her preferences but what I find odd is that she doesn’t match those guys in looks. She’s just average.
            For me, on the other hand, looks are not that important although I have gone out with some very good looking men but they tended to have other things going for them as well.
            Personality, background, education and success are weighted more.
            Also, I want to be the pretty one in the relationship 🙂

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            • Liza207
              Jan 27, 2012 @ 09:46:26

              I think am starting to mature in this. I am about to meet someone I have never seen before not even a photo. This is something I would not have done before but I guess I have finally turned the corner. I knew it would have to happen at some point. You have to grow up someday, right?

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              • Neecy
                Jan 27, 2012 @ 10:03:33

                yes we all have to grow up. i think in your case Liza, it is a bit of immaturity that causes you to believe that a man is not worthy of a relationship with you unless he’s a God. But I’m so proud of you my friend, for taking a leap into new territory. 😀

                I htink women should simply base attractivenss on this: Do you wanna F*ck him and have his penis in your mouth? if the anser is “NO” then he gotsta “GO”! LOL

                Its the equivalent of the male boner test. Does she pass the boner test? if not, then no HAPS!

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              • Sophia
                Jan 27, 2012 @ 14:53:32

                Wow, that’s a big step. Meeting someone without knowing what they look like, eh? Is this a blind date setup? Tell us how it goes.

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            • Neecy
              Jan 27, 2012 @ 10:00:42

              Sophia I am with you. I am not saying I don’t look for some kind of looks, but that is not my number one criteria for a man. I want to be attracted to him first and foremost YES, but he doesn’t have to be a damn model for that to happen.

              Honestly, anyone who places such a great emphasis on a persons looks seems to have something else going on (sorry Liza I still love ya babe, but i agree that is IMMATURITY as you said). But I find many Black women are seriously plagued with this issue and especially when they are not all that themselves. I don’t know why so many Black owmen are like this, but it can clearly be a reason why so many Black women are single and undesirable in the dating market.

              While i don’t make anyone feel bad for their preferences, I find that the people who demand top notch looks in mates as you said are usually not on that level themselves. its one thing to fanatcize about being with a super hot guy or woman and its another thing to think you are deserving of them b/c *THAT* is what *YOU* want. Two different things.

              Yeah i would like to snatch up a Hugh Jackman look alike around my age, but i am not EXPECTING that. I want a good solid man’s man that I can turn over and look at in the morning or evening and want to have sex with him and give him blow jobs. if he doesn’t ring that stirring in me when I meet hinm it aint gonna happen. but it doesn’t take a hugh jackman in my eyes fo rme to have that stirring. That’s all I want in the attraciton dept – a man I wanna have sex with. the rest is all about mental and emotional stimulation from that same man.

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              • Liza207
                Jan 27, 2012 @ 10:13:35

                Neecy, I love ya too. But please don’t put me in the same catagory as the average black woman, please. You should that I am not. I think is it having too many options (not always a good thing) and not giving into convention or conforming to how I should be as woman or what I should want in a man because everyone is telling me that is what I should want. That is why I have never dated/sexed any man that I was not totally attracted to–one has a right to tell any woman what she should find desirable in a man. I just never bought into that B.S.

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                • Neecy
                  Jan 27, 2012 @ 10:26:21

                  Oh No Liza I certainly don’t see you as the average Black woman. 😮

                  i was just pointing out that this “looks” thing is a big issue with a lot of Black women (we even discussed this privatley before) in that they demand stellar looks. And also as we pointed out in the past it could be b/c with other races of men they typically have other things to replace their looks like power, resources that their women would often look for first in a man. Whereas, many Black women really only have looks to go on when it comes to Black men since they typically are not in powerful places or have the kind of resources that a WHite man may have. I dunno. i just see this as a major problem especially with a lotof Black owmen no matter how good or how unnattractive she looks.

                  I told you about my friend who is fat who turned down a dude who was as equally fat and got mad b/c the guy she wanted (who was fit and cut up) didn;t want her. And she actually got pissed when i asked her how she could demand something she wasn’t herself.

                  It just irks me when people demand to get what they are not themselves. And that is an issue that a lot of people have these days. They are simply not realistic in the type of mate they can and should attract.

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                  • Liza207
                    Jan 27, 2012 @ 10:34:11

                    Most black woman only look at a man’s looks because that is how we have been socialized by the black community, as you already know. Which is done to in order to let a lot black men off the hook, so his inablity to provide and protect does not have to come into question.

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            • Neecy
              Jan 27, 2012 @ 10:44:02

              This is another thing i want to add. People need to stop trying to (as Liza put it) “punch above their staiton”. The reason being is when there is a big imbalance in looks between a couple one of the party (usually the most unnattractive one) is doing any and everything to supplicate to the other better looking party. Or in flipped senarios the uglier party abuses and cheats on the prettier party b/c they are insecure.

              In the case of your friend, she was willing to risk having sex early with that guy probably b/c he was so good looking and above her in looks. WOuld she have made the same decision with a guy on the same level of attractiveness as her? probably not.

              That is why I say superficiality is gonna cause a lot of people heartache and being used.

              I want a man on my level of attrativeness preferably. He can be a *little* below or a *little above* but i have always for the most part preferred to be with guys who were equally as attractive and vice versa. I look at my parents generation and most of the couples I grew up with and around were always EQUALLY balanced in the attractiveness dept. I htink its just better and healthier that way.

              An extremely good lookign woman will most likely not be overly supplicating to an extemely good looking man as would an average woman to a good looking man and vice versa.

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              • Liza207
                Jan 27, 2012 @ 11:31:49

                People need to stop trying to (as Liza put it) “punch above their staiton”.
                ——
                This is one of the reasons the dating marketplace is such a mess. I am big on people staying in their lanes in terms of looks for the exact reasons you cited. Also, with everyone chasing/pursuing those more attractive than themselves what you get is a sexual marketplace with a lot of lonely miserable people.

                I have heard men online claim that women are the most guilty of punching above their stations which is absolute rubbish. Being that men only find a woman’s looks her most valuable asset in the SMP and the claim that women don’t value looks as much as men–how is true that women are the most guilty of this? Wouldn’t men be more guilty of punching above their station since they value looks much more and feel that all women don’t care about looks.

                Therefore, less attractive men from my observation have very little hesitation in hitting on/approaching women who out of their league. In addition, what kills me is the hostility they display upon being rejected by those women.

                I just had to add this because it irritates when they try to make this ridiculous claim.

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                • Neecy
                  Jan 27, 2012 @ 11:47:40

                  ITA Liza.

                  its rubbish when people say women try to punch above their staiton in looks when it comes to dating. HARDLY true AT ALL. In fact, you see more attractive women willing to be with Butt ass ugly dudes waay below them b/c they are indoctrinated to accept that a man’s looks are not as valuable as other things. While i agree with that, it should be applied OR EXPECTED both ways. and also my biggest thing is moreso a person should not be with anyone they are NOT attracted to. That goes beyond looks b/c its not always looks that ignites a fire in a person. I’m not a “looks” nazi but i am a “I need to be physically attracted to him” person. The best way for someone to do this is stay within their own attrativeness level.

                  it is men (as you clearly pointed out) who place a more of a woman’s value on her looks who are always trying to reach waaaaaaay above in looks.

                  You are right. Some people and men start feeling entitled to get what they want and if they don’t get it, they have a shit fit. i never understood this AT ALL. I don’t bitch and moan about not getting someone who is not AT LEAST on my level. Its not a *right* to date or be with someone just b/c that is what YOU like.

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                • MK
                  Jan 27, 2012 @ 15:36:54

                  Online or offline makes a big difference too. I have had some really horrible looking women contact me on a site that had 0 chance that makes me think online makes people bolder vs. offline. Women that I interact with in the real world that I go out with are way above a lot of women that have reached out to me first on the net. I don’t like being so shallow but like many here have said you have to have the base attraction or it isn’t worth even trying.

                  On a side note I have suited up now on the regular and my interaction levels are through the roof. Getting mad attention in Draper like fashion.

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                  • Neecy
                    Jan 30, 2012 @ 09:32:08

                    MK

                    LOL MK about the women online. Its true that some people will just keep throwing anything against the wall until something sticks hoping they will eventually land someone they contact.

                    I do think its eaier to be attracted to people you meet face to face b/c you see them in real life vs a photo.

                    I don’t think anyone should settle with being with a person they don’t find physically appealing to their standards. But some people also tend not to be realistic as well.

                    And awesome about the suit thing working out. i think what it i, is that a man who dresses up really seds off the message that he takes pride in his looks etc. And suits (like dresses for women) really make a man look well put together which women like.

                    But don’t always be so suited up, its okay to be casual sometimes as long as you don’t look sloppy or dorky.

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              • Sophia
                Jan 27, 2012 @ 15:02:10

                Neecy, if the guy was on my friend’s level, look-wise, she wouldn’t have wasted two seconds on him. He would be immediately friend-zoned. There is this poor sap at her workplace who has a crush on her and even did P90X to lose weight and bulk up so that he would be more attractive to her but do you think she even considers him as anything more than a friend? No. I met him a couple of times and just felt sorry for him. Not too sorry though cause you know a smart woman is going to snatch him up fast. Meanwhile my friend is pining over men way out of her league even after they use her.

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                • Neecy
                  Jan 30, 2012 @ 09:36:48

                  Sophia there are A LOT of women like your friend and all i can say is good luck to them cause they are gonna need it.

                  But its silly for a guy to do all kinds of stuff to please a woman that sees through him.

                  He should be getting himself fit not for a woman but for himself. men like that irk me too. Always catering to these chicks who don’t give two hoots about them. people need to stop always trying to do stuff to please others like that and work on themselves for the sake of bettering htemselves and not trying to attract chicks or dudes (especially ones like your bud) who are superficial.

                  I am not saying people don’t fix themselves to not be appealing to others, but doing it for a person you are not even in a relationship with is STUPID and reeks of low value behavior. If she didn’t like him before I am sure with what he has done “for her” without even having her makes him more unnattractive.

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                  • Omerta327
                    Jan 30, 2012 @ 09:57:45

                    Exactly. You’ll never stick to any kind of self-improvement program if you’re doing it to satisfy external forces and not internal ones.

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                    • Neecy
                      Jan 30, 2012 @ 10:08:33

                      YEP O,

                      people who do this only set themselves up for heartache and failure later. Any self improvement should start from within. Not for seeking the approval of individuals. There was a guy on heartiste’s who spelled it out nicely. i’m gonna look for that post an quote it here b/c while he was moreso talking to men and game i think it applies to everyone.

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          • chic noir
            Jan 30, 2012 @ 19:23:57

            Liza, I can’t lie, I love a pretty boy myself 🙂

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  13. MK
    Jan 27, 2012 @ 04:38:27

    Was listening to some mellow R&B this morning and Alicia Keys came on. She’s singing Unthinkable,

    If we do the unthinkable would it make us so crazy
    Or would it be so beautiful either way I’m saying
    If you ask me I’m ready, I’m ready, I’m ready
    If you ask me I’m ready, I’m ready, I’m ready

    It may just be artistic interpretation but is she finally ready to let her man try a new orifice? If you ask me she’s ready.

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  14. Omerta327
    Jan 27, 2012 @ 07:12:01

    Wow, this is what happens when I join the party late. So much to digest here.

    Good post, Neece. Once again you pretty much hit it on all points.

    I find the two most important things for a man flirting-wise are confidence and context. Having the confidence and right attitude to approach or just speak up, and knowing the proper context of the venue and the woman’s emotional state / temperament. Obviously the valet guy needed to use a different approach tactic than the guy in the bar, given the different context of each scenario.

    BTW, both of those approaches were cool as the other side of the pillow.

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    • Neecy
      Jan 27, 2012 @ 08:20:22

      I find the two most important things for a man flirting-wise are confidence and context. Having the confidence and right attitude to approach or just speak up, and knowing the proper context of the venue and the woman’s emotional state / temperament.

      This is really excellent Omerta. its good to hear from a guy what he does and how he approaches women. I certainly agree that a man has to know those things you suggested b/c honestly some men are clueless and use a one size fits all approach to women and overlook the context. And then they wonder why they are not successful with women? Context is *REALLY* importnat and not only that within that context a man may have to switch his approach as well. So here is where having a great number of different approaches in a man’s aresonal will work.

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      • MW
        Jan 28, 2012 @ 01:27:46

        Yes, context, context, context. Picking up on some subtle detail about her, or the mutual situation (like Brian the valet…sharp, smooth aaannnd classy. Respect from moi) sounds like Roissy’s preference for indirect game. Wit (gentle or sharp), seasoned with courtesy, without being a pushover. That’s what I aspire to.

        I guess if both sexes display rude and gauche behaviour, then those types deserve each other and they can’t complain about the other. Works for some folks I suppose. I always find a plainer, modest classy woman more attractive than a hotter, more intemperate tart. There’s just something more there.

        I hope I’m making sense, as the post shift 18 year single malt is working its sublime magic right now.

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  15. Liza207
    Jan 27, 2012 @ 07:35:51

    Neecy, awesome job as usual.

    I know I am all late to the party.

    It is a shame that charming men are going the way of the 8-track tape. What I see are a lot crude, rude and classless men who have absolutely no clue as to how to interact with a woman. They invade your personal space and made really odd off-color remarks (negging I guess). But every now and then, I may encounter a charmer but he is usually a much older gentleman. I guess they still now how to be charming but the men in our age group are just plain clueless. I think reading this would help a lot of them out.

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    • Neecy
      Jan 27, 2012 @ 08:24:02

      Yeah while I haven’t really encountered any real crude or classless men (i think its my geography where men are a bit more respectful and laid back) I simply think its the culture that promotes this kind of classless rude behavior. Women have it to. i see so many women acting outwardly like skanks and low class no wonder so many men act the way they do. But the problem is when they think all women can and should be approached that way.

      But I just think we live in a culture where this kind of behavior is acceptable vs. in previous generations where it was an embaressment for anyone to be seen acting like this.

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  16. Neecy
    Jan 27, 2012 @ 09:31:03

    I’m so Sam aggravated right now. My wifi is acting up and almost every post I have made got lost or is taking 10 effin minutes to post! UGH!

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  17. MW
    Jan 27, 2012 @ 12:27:38

    Good post Neecy! Exhaustive as usual. I’ll have to give it a serious reading later. But it’s something I never learned…..non verbal comms, body language etc. Is trial and error the only way?

    Sometimes I’ll find out that a woman had some interest, (in two cases, tonnes) in me initially, but I was clueless about it. Missed all the signs (or worse, knew it and avoided it). I know that I’ve also pushed too hard in the past and slid into creepy territory only to be left wondering, “WTF happened?”

    Trying to navigate two situations with two women, both interesting, who I just can’t read properly.

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    • Neecy
      Jan 27, 2012 @ 13:00:03

      Hey MW!

      yes darling I believe its trial and error. Or at least now that you are aware of at least the basics you can really look for the signs b/c now you know they are there.

      There is nothing more frustrating than giving the guy the signals and he is trying and unsure and then clams up b/c he thought you were out of reach for him. UGH! Happened to me twice and i get so mad b/c I refused to tell them flat out as i am very shy. Why did you avoid it after seeing hte signs? Were you not interested in them or you were afraid of something?

      Yeah you are not ht eonly guy that has probably gone into “creepy zone” by pushing a little too hard. i htink men are usually taught to really be persistent and sometimes that line between persistent and overy agressive and entering hte creepy zone is a very thin one. its okay as long as you now recognize. No man shoud ever feel he is getting to a point of begging (which is what it comes off as to a woman when a guy won’t take no for an answer).

      If you want you can list some of the things and signs the two current women are giving ou and us ladies can possibly help you out!

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      • MW
        Jan 28, 2012 @ 03:04:42

        Well the first one, hmmmm. (geez I was just thinking about her last night on the way home from work, hadn’t thought about her for almost 20 years) At the time, I couldn’t believe a girl that hot would be interested in a schmo like moi. And dayum she was gorgeous! An 18 year old Kim Basinger. No shit. Legs that went on forever. Super sweet too, she just wanted to be a mum. Aaanyways, mighta shoulda coulda woulda……one for the history books.

        Second one, gosh now that I think of it, I was overseas and spoke the language pretty well for a foreigner, and the local girls loved it; so several, not just one were hanging about all googly eyed. One was almost throwing herself at me. Again, I completely undersold myself. Stupid, I know.

        However, just for some perspective, I grew up with guys like this:

        (and yes, people really do sound like that in certain places up here)

        So then hanging out with cultured smokin hot Euro-babes who speak minimum three languages, likely four or five, and have travelled the world is a bit of a culture shock. Any sane man would have been carving a swath of seduction through the local lovelies, but I was just stinking of betaness back then. Now…. not quite so much.

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    • MK
      Jan 27, 2012 @ 15:41:38

      Assume attraction until it is clear that is not the case then totally abort the mission. That way you keep a strong frame are direct but not pathetic when someone isn’t interested.

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  18. Liza207
    Jan 27, 2012 @ 13:24:10

    I think best advice a man can get about how to woo women is from non-feminist women (real women) because we have no agendas. Feminist women who dole out advice to men always wants the guys to subjugate himself to women (kiss their asses) and be their slave–sick.

    I would like for, Neecy, to expand on this if she has something to add. You know, me, I like to keep it short.

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    • Neecy
      Jan 27, 2012 @ 13:39:15

      Totally agree Liza!

      Yes the reason why non feminist women can give a man good advice on women is b/c we want men as they are in their natural masculine state. We don’t want wussies that feminism seeks to create and make of men.

      Feminists have a solely FEMALE agenda and that agenda IMO is not in line with how I believe God created man and woman to be. I am not saying that women don’t need some sort of feminism. but what is currently being touted as feminism is pure extremism and really more hatred for men than anything.

      Heterosexual women who love men and want relationships with men do not want to make men over. We want to be our natural selves as women and we want the ying to our yang. Feminism these days promtoed the opposite and its very unnatural. So a man listening to a typical western extreme feminized woman’s advice will be led astray for sure.

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  19. Liza207
    Jan 27, 2012 @ 13:54:44

    Feminism these days promtoed the opposite and its very unnatural. So a man listening to a typical western extreme feminized woman’s advice will be led astray for sure.

    This is why men have become very leery about taking relationship advice from women– on how to figure women out. They trust other men more on how to understand women. It has even gotten so bad that women don’t even trust getting advice from other women who are suppose to be experts. Many women are now seeking out male relationship experts more– for love advice.

    The femnazis have made a big mess that I don’t think they will ever be able to clean up. However, I think slowly women are starting to catch on.

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  20. Trackback: Ace Ventura, Vomit-worthy Flirting and How not to approach women (1/2) « A Spoonful of Suga
  21. Trackback: A Dating Dilemma: Restrained Impatience « Women in Contemporary Relationships
  22. Matt
    Jan 28, 2012 @ 11:57:24

    Hi all,

    I wanted to respond to a question that Maya asked at Roissy’s sty, and was mentioned again above about women being told to settle for a man they consider “unfuckable” (I like this word for some reason. It tells almost everything that needs to be said about a person in one word. Elegant!). For some reason, my response was eaten by the Intertubes …

    It’s been my experience than when a woman is told to “settle”, she’s being gently told: “Your expectations, demands and requirements for a mate are FAR OUT-OF-LINE with what you can provide in return”. Take a look at any dating site and you won’t have to search long before you find unattractive women (both the physical and personality spheres of attractive) that demand a man that has lots of money, is a modern Adonis, must meet a long list of requirements, etc., etc. It’s absurd, but those girls actually believe that they deserve it and refuse to accept less.

    I have a “friend” (given our history, I use that term very loosely) who is, objectively, a low 6. She has little education, doesn’t take care of herself, spends all her time playing computer games and worked an entry level position in a fast food place. She looks decent enough when she puts effort into it, but she doesn’t often do that because she wants to be “one of the boys”. She genuinely believes that she’ll land a 9 or 10 man because she deserves it. She’s pushing 31 right now. She’s been told to “settle” by me, her brother, both of her parents, her grandmother, and at least one of her friends. She’s becoming more and more bitter about her spinster status, but she refuses to change.

    If a woman is told to “settle” by many different people, she should take an objective look at what she’s expecting from a mate and, more importantly, what she can offer in return. It is very possible that she thinks she’s worth more than she actually is. (The brutal question that all people, men AND women, should ask themselves is: “If my dream man/woman walked in right now, why would he/she choose me?” If that question can’t be answered, it might be time to do some work on yourself so that an answer can be given). If a woman is a 6, then she really shouldn’t expect to land the “Alpha Male” 10. The highest she could realistically get would be a 7.

    Why are men not told to settle as often? The vast majority of men (in the range of 90%+ I’d guess) either know exactly what they’re worth, or think they’re worth less than they actually are. This is why you get men that are objectively an 8 dating women that are, at best, a 5. They don’t have the confidence to objectively appraise their value, what they bring to a relationship and certainly not to go after an equitable match. (Note that this doesn’t apply to egotistical assholes that believe they’re worth only the best of everything). Again, its been my experience that when they’re going for a long-term relationship or, *GASP* marriage, men tend to be more realistic in what they can get.

    I also have to state that if you feel no attraction for another human being (whether you’re male or female), don’t settle for them. It will never work. There MUST be some kind of chemistry between two people before they proceed. If there isn’t, save yourself the drama and stay single. It’s better for all involved.

    Sorry to go off topic. Great post as usual Neecy. 🙂

    Also, s’up Maya! Haven’t read you in awhile. How’s life?

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    • MK
      Jan 28, 2012 @ 14:53:53

      Well said Matt

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    • Marellus
      Jan 29, 2012 @ 06:05:43

      She’s pushing 31 right now. She’s been told to “settle” by me, her brother, both of her parents, her grandmother, and at least one of her friends. She’s becoming more and more bitter about her spinster status, but she refuses to change.

      Where someone dispenses advice, there is a hidden dynamic of one party seeing itself as superior to the other. As such the lesser party has an incentive to embrace the Fuck You welling up within them, no matter how sound the advice is.

      This can all be summarized in one word :

      Nagging.

      And does it work ? No.

      So how does one make a “lost cause” embrace a regimen that is to their benefit ?

      I wish I knew.

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    • Maya
      Jan 29, 2012 @ 11:53:35

      Hi Matt :),

      I’m fine, thanks for asking 🙂

      … and I agree with what you wrote here … mostly 😉

      “Why are men not told to settle as often? The vast majority of men (in the range of 90%+ I’d guess) either know exactly what they’re worth, or think they’re worth less than they actually are.”

      I think that the majority (over 90%) of women also know exactly what they are worth … I mean, this is not something you just make up … It’s something you assess from your whole life, from your experience with other people, seeing yourself in the mirror, … I believe it’s subconscious. And fat girls don’t really think they are as hot as the thin ones.

      “Again, its been my experience that when they’re going for a long-term relationship or, *GASP* marriage, men tend to be more realistic in what they can get.”

      I don’t agree. Single guys I know all have really high expectations. I’m always surprised when I hear about what kind of girl they want because there is obviously not enough perfect teenage girls for everyone … But I also understand them because sometimes their friends have some exceptionally beautiful girlfriends and of course they want a girl like that too … btw. I’ve been reading a study about how men’s expectations have changed in the last fifty years or so because they are exposed to perfect, retouched female faces every day (in the magazines and on TV) and this has somehow changed their brain … (couldn’t find it now but it’s an evo psych study not a feminist one)

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      • Matt
        Jan 30, 2012 @ 09:10:47

        On further consideration, I’m just going to generalize that to men AND women. Being told “settle” by many different people, means that a person’s requirements aren’t realistic, regardless of their sex.

        “btw. I’ve been reading a study about how men’s expectations have changed in the last fifty years or so because they are exposed to perfect, retouched female faces every day (in the magazines and on TV) and this has somehow changed their brain … (couldn’t find it now but it’s an evo psych study not a feminist one)”

        Yeah, this doesn’t surprise me at all. The acceptance and ubiquity of pornography plays a major part too. Even if it was a feminist study, I’d still be inclined to agree with it because it makes sense. For a guy that’s viewed model level women, with no physical blemishes, doing EVERYTHING, how can he get excited about normal people doing normal things? It’s akin to eating a perfectly cooked, prime-rib steak every night for dinner. How is a hamburger going to be any good in comparison?

        … now I’m hungry …

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      • Neecy
        Jan 30, 2012 @ 09:48:16

        Maya I agree with both you and Matt make good points.

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    • Neecy
      Jan 30, 2012 @ 10:04:44

      If a woman is told to “settle” by many different people, she should take an objective look at what she’s expecting from a mate and, more importantly, what she can offer in return. It is very possible that she thinks she’s worth more than she actually is. (The brutal question that all people, men AND women, should ask themselves is: “If my dream man/woman walked in right now, why would he/she choose me?” If that question can’t be answered, it might be time to do some work on yourself so that an answer can be given). If a woman is a 6, then she really shouldn’t expect to land the “Alpha Male” 10. The highest she could realistically get would be a 7.

      Matt i agree with this but this is not only a woman issue a lot of men believe they deserve 8-10 women when they also should be more realistic. men also need tpo objectivley be mreo realistic about what they can pull in terms of a mate as well. Also, women are more likely to date “down” in looks than men are and men need to admit this.

      Other than that, perfect observation above on what you said.

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      • Omerta327
        Jan 30, 2012 @ 10:10:25

        I dunno, Neece, I’ve seen PLENTY of guys date down in looks as well, as I’ve stated a while back. In fact, I’d say it’s about 50/50.

        I don’t really think it’s either a male or female thing as much as it’s just a matter of human psychology.

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        • Neecy
          Jan 30, 2012 @ 10:23:31

          No doubt that there are not men who are dating down looks wise, but its not as common as it is with women.

          also if a man dates down in looks its mainly b/c he may actually find that woman attractive although others may not. But it won’t be b/c he was told by other people to “settle”. men no matter how they are, are never told to settle even when they aren’t bringing much to the table. So when they do actually “settle” in thier mind its not really settling b/c men usually cannot be guilted or foced or made to feel they should be with a woman they are not attracted to UNLIKE women are.

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          • Liza207
            Jan 30, 2012 @ 10:31:57

            I think telling women to settle causes women to enter into marriages where they are often unhappy and are later seeking divorce. Society needs to stop telling women to settle.

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            • Neecy
              Jan 30, 2012 @ 10:38:07

              YEP. All it does is backfire when women are made to feel they shoudl settle for a man they are not attracted to. And you are right, a lot of women enter into marriages with men they really weren’t inlove with but did it b/c everyone kept telling her she’d “be foolish to pass up such a great guy”. Well yeah but if she is not attracted to him then why should she bother. I see it all the time and the results are disaterous for both parties.

              Its fine to tell people ot be realistic, but its not ok to tell anyone to settle. Maybe its the word I have an issue with. Settling to me sounds like and says that a person should be with ANYONE just for the sake of having someone. NOPE. I’ll stay single with a billion cats before I did that.

              Also a person not “settling” is not a person that is necessarily looking to shoot waay above than what they are either.

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            • Maya
              Jan 30, 2012 @ 10:52:52

              Liza,

              “Society needs to stop telling women to settle.”

              Let us ask something … Why does society tell women that we should settle? There must be some very good reason, probably … ?

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              • Liza207
                Jan 30, 2012 @ 11:42:48

                I know that women have a shorter window of time to obtain a mate due to reproduction, so this could be one of the reasons.

                I also think that society just gets off on telling women what to do with their lives (i.e. deciding whether we should have abortions rights).

                Telling women to settle for any man that wants her makes it easier for men to obtain the women they desire.

                I do not know why any man would want any woman who is just settling for him but most of them seem quite fine with this otherwise they would not continue to promote this ideal to women.

                I sure the f**k would not want any man that was just settling for/tolerating me. Men can have that sh*t.

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                • Neecy
                  Jan 30, 2012 @ 12:05:13

                  Liza I agree that the main root in some instances of telling women to settle is to make it easier for men not on thier level to obtain them.

                  Also, i do believe people sometimes have good intentions when they tell a woman or man to “settle” b/c as Matt says sometimes people have un realistic expectations about what they can actually pull and cannot seperate what they want from what they can actually get.

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          • Omerta327
            Jan 30, 2012 @ 10:50:55

            I think the reason why men aren’t told to “settle” like women are is because it’s not necessary. Men, over the last few decades, have had the ‘scarcity mentality’ beaten into their heads. A mentality where the vagina is so prized and pedestalized that a lot of men will just grab whatever they can get and do whatever it takes to keep it because it’s ingrained in their minds that they’re so lucky to have it. These “men” don’t need to be told to settle – it’s their default setting, so to speak.

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            • Neecy
              Jan 30, 2012 @ 11:58:31

              Actually, i don’t think men “settle” when it comes to a woman’s looks. I believe men settle with a woman’s character flaws. IOW’s men will settle for women with less than stellar character or who is BATSHIT, SLUTTY, LOONY simply b/c of how she looks.

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              • Liza207
                Jan 30, 2012 @ 12:06:04

                I believe sexual attractive is number one for men. You know, passing the boner test. And you my favorite Pattyism: “the penis does the picking”.

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                • Neecy
                  Jan 30, 2012 @ 12:25:11

                  YES. men are never going ot be with a woman that doesn’t get him at least hard. Men tend to follow thier raw sexual attraction triggers to a woman, even if she is not the type of women his friends or others agree is attractive. I’m not saying he will be with her openly, but he will be able to have sex with her if she triggers something in him.

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        • Neecy
          Jan 30, 2012 @ 10:27:31

          I agree its also about human psychology to want the best. nothing wrong with that. but there is something wrong witht hat frame of mind, if you aren’t the best but think you deserve it. Something all too many people can’t seem to distinguish b/c they overestimate what they are actually bringing to the table.

          I’m just all about people being realistic. If by chance a person does land someone way above them, that is not something that everyone should depnd on if they are not on top of their game.

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      • Matt
        Jan 30, 2012 @ 19:55:53

        Hi Neecy!

        It is a men’s and women’s issue. The reason I write it more as a women’s issue is because, while it does happen to men to (Alpha assholes suffer from this noticeably), it seems to me that women succumb to it more often.

        I have no articles or hard evidence to back me up, just running off of what I’ve noticed. To be fair, this could be just because of where I live though.

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    • Omerta327
      Jan 30, 2012 @ 10:19:34

      Matt,

      I’ll bet your “friend” is a Facebook junkie. I’ll bet she has lots of “friends”, both male and female, who give her lots of attention, which strokes her ego. Strokes it to the point where she grossly overestimates her SMP value.

      She thinks she deserves these men because she has a huge support group at her fingertips telling her how great she really is any time she needs it. Happens all the damn time these days.

      Just a hunch, but I bet I’m right.

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    • Matt
      Jan 31, 2012 @ 19:17:25

      Hopefully it isn’t to pretentious to reply to oneself.

      Anyway,

      I remembered reading two articles a few years back that were on this topic of “settling”. I finally found them.

      http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/03/marry-him/6651/
      http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/02/the-case-for-mr-not-quite-right/6678/

      The first is slightly depressing, but both are decent reads about a lady that learned the hard way what “settle” meant. I thought some people might be interested.

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      • Neecy
        Jan 31, 2012 @ 22:14:13

        Here’s the thing the term “settling” to me sounds so bad. maybe it should be rephrased as RE EVALUATING? B/C i agree at a certain point people do have to RE EVALUATE the things that may be superficial or not so important when it comes to finding a mate. There are a lot of superficial things that a lot of people have on thier lists that would possibly keep them from finding love.

        but “settling” when it comes to a relationship, I can’t go with that. that’s b/c a lot of people “settle” and yes they may have a companion, but they are miserable. That is why those against settling say they would rather go at it alone than to settle and b eunhappy in a relationship b/c they forced things.

        I just spoke with my dad tonight and we were talking. He said something that triggered. He said he has finally found a woman that he is ahppy with and said all the other women in his life he “SETTLED” for. And all those years with those women he “settled” for he was miserable and the relationships ended.

        Its not simply about having a human being to be in a relationship with. its about connection. if someone settles, they are most likely going to feel they settled and inside will never really be happy with thier choice.

        There are A LOT of miserable people in relaitonships who are going through the motions. Some of us just would just rather avoid that and find happiness in other outlets if we canot be completely happy. Of course I am not talking about people who are simply holding out for the perfect looking mate b/c that’s ridiculous at ANY AGE whether you are in your prime or not. there is no perfect mate at anytime in life.

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        • Neecy
          Jan 31, 2012 @ 22:19:19

          for me the issue I will not compromise on is that i want a solid man. I don’t come across very many men like this and frankly, I would rather go at it alone than be with a man who does not exude the kind of masculinity I want in my life. I find many men today (at least the ones I meet) are either extremes – too nice and accomodating or too aloof. Its very hard to find a man with a balance these days.

          For me its not about height, superior looks, or the perfect job or the perfect income etc.

          For any woman past the age of 30 holding out for superficial things that rely on a man’s looks, she’ll most likely stay single.

          I know what I want and i am not willing ot compromise on that to simply say I have a man. if he cannot be that guy in the middle, I just don’t even want to go there…

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  23. Zorro
    Jan 28, 2012 @ 14:40:34

    A few notes for you…

    The Girlfriend Gab. When two or more women spot a guy they think is cute or otherwise remarkable, they will commonly huddle and whisper in a conspiratorial manner. Although it is possible that they will do this to trash a guy they see, it is much more common to be a sign of deep interest. When trashing a guy, look for their facial expressions. And if a man has any reason to suspect that he is the object of the gab, it is much more likely that it is of a positive note. Women would most likely trash a guy that they know from experience and so the guy would be onto the matter. If you walk into a room and see women huddling and whispering, and you have caught flashes of eye contact, this is a very good sign.

    The Peek-a-boo. Hiding her eyes behind a restaurant menu or other mask, she will drop the mask to reveal her eyes in a bid to entice a male to approach her. This is apparently learned as a child when played with by either parent and is replicated during adulthood.

    The Shy Geisha. You make eye contact with a woman. She then does something with her arms that frames her chest with one forearm and with the other she touches her shoulder. She will look down and away from you. This projects modesty. She might even smile. This is the most common USS on the planet, and it exists in all cultures from sophisticated salons of Paris to the African Savanna. The woman is projecting herself as feminine, submissive and socially worthy.

    The Sidelong Glance. Society lowers a woman’s value for being too aggressive with guys, so she might not feel comfortable even looking at you with more than quick, furtive glances. If you see a woman looking at you quickly and discreetly more than once, she’s checking you out.

    The Jewelry Tug/Fondle. Pulling gently at an earring or necklace can not only feel instinctively good, it is a way for her to highlight her decorations (plumage, so to speak). She will commonly look directly at you when doing this. This is a woman who wants to be approached.

    The Exposé. If a woman is contacting with you and she lets the shoulder of her sweater, or strap of her blouse or dress slip off her shoulder, it is a very strong come-on to you. She’s showing how at ease she is with letting you see her flesh. Same deal with…

    The Sole-Bearing Shoe Dangle. Like the Exposé, this is a way of transmitting comfort with revealing her flesh. Women are very conscious of their dress at all times, so when they allow a shoe to dangle off of the heel, it’s a super-subtle way of undressing a tiny little bit for you. It is socially safe for her (this isn’t Saudi Arabia), and it is a clear hint that clothes can come off if you play your cards right. If she’s actually jiggling her foot, that means she clearly wants you to notice the shoe dangle. Additionally, a woman might mimic the sex act by pushing and retrieving her foot from within a loose shoe.

    The Close Encounter. Women will sometimes invade a guy’s personal space in an obvious—if sometimes—fleeting manner. When getting off a bar stool, a woman can playfully get real close to a guy on the next stool and then exit that space. When a woman gets her entire body real close to you, notice if she had options, because if she did you can rest assured she knew about them. By choosing to get close to you, even if for a brief moment, she is flirting with you.

    The Space Invasion. Like the Close Encounter, this is a way of flirtatiously penetrating your personal bubble. She will use one or two hands to get nearer to you than is really necessary, and she will also look for signs of welcome (your smile). She might playfully gesticulate while speaking so her hand gets very close to you. Don’t recoil, and make sure you project some kind of welcoming signal.

    The Innocent Touch. A woman will never touch you unless she likes you. If a woman makes a casual and innocent display of putting her hands on you (picking off a piece of lint from your jacket, turning your wrist to look at your watch, or smoothing the lapels on your jacket), it’s to see if you’re smart enough to reward her for the effort. Right after you tell a funny joke is a common time a woman near you will probe you for physical approval. If she picks off your lint, playfully say you want your lint back and pick off an imaginary piece off of her (be careful where you do that). You must remember: this is a probe for your approval, so if she does not get any positive confirmation that you like her touch, she’ll interpret her touch as unappreciated and will back off.

    The Lean-2-U. In some cases it is not possible or favorable for a woman to physically touch you. An alternative for her is to lean toward you. If a woman leans toward you, don’t recoil! You don’t have to lean forward as well; you might remain still, but never lean away. She’ll pick up nothing but rejection from you and will split a moment later.

    Weathervane Palm. Women will use their hands like a weathervane to indicate interest—or disinterest—in a man. If she places her hand beneath her chin and points her palm toward you, that’s good. She is receptive to further conversation or may be demonstrating an interest in the current topic. If she points her knuckles at you, it’s bad. It may even project hidden hostility. If she was showing her palms and suddenly turns the hand, you might have just offended her.

    The Necking. When a woman bares her neck (often by using her hands to raise her hair out of the way), it signifies submission or vulnerability to the viewing male.

    The Underarm Flash. A woman’s underarms are rarely seen. She is aware that she is exposing them to you, and that’s “special” for her. Often part of The Head Toss and Hair Flick, it is an instinctual way of releasing pheromones (the “sex perfume”) to attract a man’s attention.

    The Primp. If a woman likes you, she might show her interest by refreshing her makeup for you to see. She may do it while you’ve strolled off to the lavatory. Whenever you return from a brief absence from your date, check her out for signs of primping. It clearly means she wants to look her best.

    The Head Toss and Hair Flick. Often the first cue of female interest. Tossing back the hair reveals the face, and reaching behind her head to adjust her hair will also reveal the armpit, which is an instinctual gesture to release pheromones.

    Wet Lips and Pouting, Mouth Slightly Open. Females have larger lips than males, and pouting is a way to increase their size. Sexual arousal makes a woman’s lips, breasts and genitals enlarged with blood flow (and redden). Moist, red lips are naturally arousing to men because they suggest an aroused vagina.

    Self-Touching. Our minds get our bodies to act out our secret desires. Women have dramatically more nerve sensors, making them more sensitive to physical touch. When a woman sensually strokes her neck, thigh, or throat, it implies that a man who plays his cards right will be welcome to touch her in these same ways. Simultaneously, this act lets her imagine what it would feel like to be touched in this manner by a desirable man.

    The Limp Wrist. Walking or sitting with a limp or dangling wrist is a submission signal exclusive to women and gay men. It is easily spotted, and a subtle but highly effective attention-getter. It conveys the message that this woman is submissive and feminine, and willing to be dominated by the right guy.

    Fondling a Cylindrical Object. Fondling cigarettes, a finger, the stem of a wine glass, a dangling earring or any other phallic-shaped object is an unconscious indication of what may be in the mind. Taking off and replacing a ring can suggest the sex act.

    Exposed Wrists. Be alert to a woman exposing her wrists to you. Women consider their wrists to be highly erotic (it is a very delicate skin area). It is believed that as a woman’s interest in a man grows, she will increase the frequency of wrist exposure. [I may be reaching here, but having her hands up, wrists out, is also the highly submissive posture of being pinned to a mattress during sex.]

    Sideways Glance Over Raised Shoulder. The raised shoulder creates a roundness mimicking the breast, and a glance that is fleetingly pulled away gives a peek-a-boo sensation to the woman who does it, and a peeped-at feeling for the man who gets this treatment. Marilyn Monroe was famously photographed many times doing this.

    Rolling Hips. Because of pronounced differences between males and females anatomically, rolling hips are a very strong sex distinction and signal. To accentuate this is to strongly project allure to a desired male.

    The Pelvic Tilt. The waist-to-hip ratio of 70 percent has been scientifically proven to be the most attractive to men, even in women who are much heavier than average. The best way to accentuate this waist-to-hip ratio is to tilt the pelvic while standing. This is one more way for a woman to appear more female.

    Handbag in Close Proximity. Women are very protective of their handbags, and men are commonly afraid to even look inside them. Therefore, when a woman “accidentally on purpose” places her handbag close to a man, she is conveying trust and intimacy in him. If she finds the man attractive, she might even fondle or caress her handbag. If she asks you to retrieve something from within her handbag, she is signaling interest.

    The Knee Point. One leg is tucked under the other and points to the person she finds the most interesting. This conveys informality and affords fleeting exposure of the thighs.

    The Leg Twine. A sitting posture in which a woman places one leg atop the other by pressing firmly, and thereby accentuating muscle tone. Often she will hold the upper leg in position by placing two hands with fingers laced onto her knee. This posture showcases her legs and accentuates her femininity.

    Arms Folded Across Chest. Never good. She’s shutting you out and feels threatened. When women like you, they display their breasts.

    • Women will stroke necklaces and jewelry (using middle or ring finger) to simulate the subconscious desire to handle you.
    • When women sit up to accentuate their posture, they do so to amplify their torso. This is a means of advertising their reproductive advantage (hip-to-waist ratio).
    • When a woman fluffs her hair with her hand palms out front toward you, this is good. If her knuckles are toward you, don’t assume anything good.
    • Generally speaking, if you make eye contact with a woman and she looks down, that’s good. If she looks laterally/horizontally, she’s undecided. If she looks up, move on; you’re toast.
    • If you are on the street and a woman catches your gaze, do not look away. She’ll take that as disinterest. Likewise if you see her look away (and down, usually), do not interpret that as disinterest. Looking away is her job, not yours. Be the alpha and refuse to look away (just don’t glare menacingly).

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  24. Liza207
    Jan 30, 2012 @ 09:28:10

    Neecy,

    I am so glad that you came to realize that what was often being said on that blog does not apply to every woman in the real world. I first started going there for the slut bashing (do not judge) myself but most of the other stuff I wrote off as mostly trash and sheer women hating rhetoric—vengefulness.

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    • Neecy
      Jan 30, 2012 @ 09:51:40

      EXACTLY and that is what most of it is. No woman who is halway decent should take 70-80% of what’s said there seriously.

      Although i do find I have learned some things from being there adn that there are some things that they say about women that are true despite its ugliness.

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      • n/a
        Jan 30, 2012 @ 21:37:18

        You know you love the boys of the Chateau you hussy.

        This blog is getting so f’ing busy, how am I ever gonna catch you alone out here?

        I have bad intentions again.–

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  25. chic noir
    Jan 30, 2012 @ 19:27:55

    Well well well, if it isn’t the old Firepower posting over here.

    *chic noir orders drink and sits at bar*

    Goodevening everyone 🙂

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  26. Zorro
    Jan 30, 2012 @ 19:34:41

    Just because…

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  27. Trackback: How MrMary Learned how NOT to approach women | A Spoonful of Suga

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