My Issues with some Black women empowerment blogs & interracial dating

 

Brace THYSELVES. GRAB a coffee, green tea, ciggy, joint, vibrator, or whatever the hell it is that helps you get through a novel. Neecy is back with yet another War & Peace post.

ALL TOGETHER NOW

  😥  😥  😥  *YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!*  😥  😥  😥

Hello my sisteren!!

Well I wanted to talk about the current and recent wave of Black women empowerment sites and the INTERRACIAL dating aspect. This is kind of piggy backing off of my previous post on Black women/White men and interracial dating online and the challenges faced by many Black women who are discovering a not-so-colorblind world in the online dating scene.

I think there may be a bigger message the universe is trying to send to Black women. BE EASY! RELAX!

I think Black woman empowerment blogs and sites are amazing b/c they finally have given Black women a place to mingle amongst like..aheam PROGRESSIVE  minded Black women who are not interested in putting on their SISTER SOLDIER uniforms and battle gear for Black men and Black people. We are a very new and rare (yet growing) number of women who finally realized something: IT’S OKAY TO LIVE OUR LIVES AS WE PLEAS WITHOUT GUILT OR PERMISSION from the SOUL PATROL.

One aspect of Black women empowering themselves is relinquishing this idea that we have to be exclusive to Black men when it comes to dating, relationships and intimacy. For decades and even today many Black women close themselves off from the outside world (which includes other races of men) because of the indoctrination to stay as the backbone/workhorse and sole thread for keeping Black people and Black community together.

As a result we have spent less IF ANY time focused on improving our lives and selves as women and discovering and utilizing our greatest feminine strengths that would make almost ANY man bow down.  When you recluse yourself to a BLACK HOLE for almost all of your life, you lose sight of the tunnel and the light that awaits at the end (once you escape from the hole and attempt to get down that tunnel).

Ultimatley, Black women as a whole has lost sight of what the bigger world has to offer – both good and bad.  As a result of Black women being the sole thread holding things together for Black communities and people, we have had to adopt a tougher less feminine nature by allowing the Black community to define our womanhood as either the overweight asexual caretaking mammy to everyone and their needs, the loyal doormat to Black men and their needs and women who don’t seek reciprocation.

So when we start talking about Black female empowerment, interracial dating cannot be removed from the equation b/c it *IS* part of it as it allows Black women to finally seek out men of any race that can and will appreciate and make her happy (and vice versa). It also shows Black women how being feminine in other cultures is KEY to winning the quality men of that race over.

Now, we have many Black women discovering how womanhood as defined in the Black community does not translate to desirable womanhood in other cultures and in mainstream – physically and mentally. We have plenty of new born again Black women trying to re-discover their true feminine nature and desirable qualities that have gone without appreciation by her own group of men and people.

Some of these qualities are – rational and emotional stability, more feminine qualities, and being in better physical shape. YES being in physical shape and optimal health is KEY to being a feminine woman. WHY? Because a true feminine woman takes care of herself in every manner. Being obese and overweight does not signal a woman that ultimately takes care of herself to maximize her physical beauty and health. I don’t wanna delve too much into this, as this is another topic/post in and of itself altogether.

Having pointed out all of the above. The point I want to make (OMG YES I AM FINALLY GETTIMG TO MAKING MY POINT AND PURPOSE OF THIS POST – THANKS FOR STICKING AROUND THIS LONG IF YOU MADE IT TO THIS PART) is…….

I feel that too much emphasis is placed on “snagging” men of other races – especially White. While it makes the most sense to focus on a larger pool of men who are more likely to date interracially, I think often times Black women interested in Interracial dating  start becoming somewhat DELUSIONAL about the challenges  that they will inevitably face once treading that water.

Many BWE sites will only discuss the good of interracial dating. They hardly if ever focus on the challenges. I kinda understand WHY they may not do it – no sinister motives behind doing so, but ultimately they are not fairly representing the good, bad and ugly of interracial dating. This leads many of vulnerable Black women to believe everything is all peachy keen when it comes to dating interracially and finding men of other races. IT’S NOT SO.

They also start believing that other races of men are the ANSWER to all of her issues as a Black woman. And then once again we have Black women going from putting all their eggs in one basket with BLACK MEN, to doing the same with WHITE MEN. That is not empowerment. A womans empowerment should hardly focus on MEN b/c her femininity will take care of that part. It should be about SELF and a collective measure to improve the quality of life for Black women as WOMEN. Everything else falls into place once that is accomplished.

I get it. Focusing on positivity will result in positive outcomes. But not focusing on reality can also lead to disastrous outcomes as well. And sometimes reality aint all GOOD. Instead of being negative about the reality of things, there can be focus placed on how to overcome the challenges of reality where possible.

So. Instead of preparing Black women for the *REALITIES*  and *CHALLENGES* of interracial dating, the main and only focus seems to be on telling Black women how its “ALL GOOD”. How once she decides she wants to date a White man or another race of man, it will happen and all good things will come in that search. That other races of men are just waiting with open arms and a willingness to love and accept Black women. And then what happens?  Black women realize that isn’t as easy as some of these pro interracial Black women empowerment sites have told her.

She excitedly start signing up on various online dating sites where all of these men would and should be in abundance, only to realize the REALITY that very little are seeking her out and are excluding her BASED ON RACE ALONE. Now we have many a Black women back to square 1 and confused – “but so and so blog told me it was gonna be easy all I had to do was this. But now I am realizing it aint so”.

And as a result of that, you have many *DESPERATE* (not really empowered) Black women encouraging others as a way around these realities to LOSE sight of herself as a woman and play games (that only really hurt her and diminish all empowerment goals) just to get a Non Black man to see her and acknowledge her. NOT GOOD and I feel this is a scary road that some Black women are traveling just to get some man of another race by any means necessary. The idea is not to just get a man of another race.

The idea is to first gain yours self respect as a Black woman so that when you venture out into the Interracial dating arena and encounter damaged and/or racist men you know how to handle it properly without losing yourself and self respect.

Now what does that racial rejection mean? That Black women are innately undesirable to other races of men? NOPE. But it can mean that (going back to the beginning of my post) b/c BW have spent so much time being *BLACK COMMUNITY BLACK PEOPLE* women, that has translated to other races of men over the decades as a collective issue with BW and therefore they don’t bother. This includes the things I discussed such as lack of feminine behaviors and qualities, lack of taking care of our bodies and selves physically. This all translates into desirability.

Unfortunately, BW’s reputations precede us in the world (more so African American) to no ones fault BUT OUR OWN and those who have used their power to only ENHANCE what we have given them (the media).

Instead of Black women empowerment sites really focusing on this reality, they send Black women out there blindly saying “it’s all good” and many Black women are finding “it’s not so”.

What is my message? I believe that any woman that improves herself as a person both mentally and physically, will not have to do much work to attract men of any race. So I am saying to the BWE sites – step back a little of the interracial dating aspect. Focus more on BLACK WOMEN. Not MEN.

BLACK WOMEN and how we as women can change our plight through educating ourselves on our past and moving out of the matrix we’ve been caught up in for CENTURIES. As we simply continue to focus on US and NOT “catching men of another race” as the sole reason for our empowerment, the challenges will slowly dissolve, there will be less delusional Black women (and less desperate Black women), and more confident women who are ready and who UNDERSTAND what they are up against once they enter into the IR arena.

The end result will be happier Black women with more quality men and not desperate Black women with mediocre to damaged men of other races.

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104 Comments (+add yours?)

  1. Neecy
    Sep 26, 2012 @ 22:47:13

    I’d like to first start by saying that I’m not bashing bwe sites, but I just think its time to be more focused on the subject(s) – black women. I think the major problem I’m trying to point out based on my participation and observations of the kinds of women who post on the blogs for interracial dating, is that they seem to feel or have a need to be rescued by other races of men which will not happen. That’s just the reality. Once a black woman finds a GOOD QUALITY man he will protect her. But you cannot find GOOD QUALITY men being desperate or delusional b/c decent men are turned off by desperation and neediness.

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    • kia
      Sep 26, 2012 @ 23:30:46

      I get what your saying. Black women need to focus on improving themselves emotionally and physically first before they date out so they will be ready for the dating game. And when they’re dating out, they need to be aware that other men are not saviours and their will be hurdles in the relationship along the way that they need to know how to deal with, but that shouldn’t scare them off from other men. And when dating out, if they run into other men that don’t show interest, that doesn’t mean that all men feel that way towards black women. Not to act desperate to try to get his attention if he doesn’t show interest. Genuine quality men will appreciate you just as you are, and you don’t have to jump through hoops to get them to notice you.

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      • Neecy
        Sep 27, 2012 @ 08:48:34

        Exactly!! The answer to black female happiness is not simply looking for other races of men to “rescue” her.

        Many other races of men are spending time doing that for their own race of women.

        Black women need to understand and realize only we can save ourselves and once we do that the quality man in her life will protect her.

        Plus I feel too many black women depend on men to complete them and that is why so many black women are damaged.

        Focus on yourself and improving yourself as a woman and stop focusing on simply dating a non black man. Once you do this things will happen naturally and you will meet a good man who doesn’t see a needy or desperate woman.

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    • lunanoire
      Oct 17, 2012 @ 07:44:45

      Yep! As someone from California, I have dated interracially since adolescence. However, once I decided to stop putting up with nonsense from men, I was able to find a loving, caring boyfriend.

      This may be in the wrong section, but thank you SO much for expressing your views on BW and online dating. It can be demoralizing to hear stories from women of other races who have tons of messages to sift through. After my early 20s, that was not the case. Online dating is ok as part of a multi-pronged approach. Meeting people in person is more beneficial for BW because we can show comfort in a mixed environment, positive personality traits that are not negative stereotypes, and for women who aren’t spring chickens who look good for their age, we can avoid the age filters common to online sites.

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      • Neecy
        Oct 17, 2012 @ 16:30:33

        LUNANOIRE!!

        EXACTLY! And I think you have just proven that once a woman starts loving herself and demands better from men and relationships, she gets exactly the good men she deserves! 🙂

        And yes, online dating is just ONE of many ways BW can find ways to meet others. As many have stated online dating is a much simpler way for people to be more microscopic about their preferences and shallowness. So definitley BW should not feel “less than” b/c they may not get 5,986364,092747 messages. I can guarantee you most of the messages that NOn BW get, they are not worth much anyway. But I get the point that the more options you have to sift through online the much easier it is to find a person you are interested in. Doesn’t mean the quality is there. I’d almost rather BW be patient and wait than jump from the pan into the frying pan b/c let’s face t there are a lot of crazies online amongst the sane and normal. LOL

        And yes. Age does play *some* role in it b/c some men are just adament about dating women much younger than they are. So be it. I can relate to the last part of what you said b/c I am 38 but often mistaken for at least 10 years younger and I am ften approached by both younger and older men and men my age. This would not translate online as it does in real life where people can see me, see my spirit and who are shocked when I tell them how old I really am.

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    • travis vice
      Nov 22, 2012 @ 16:25:55

      I have always wanted to date a black woman

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    • Peanut
      Aug 08, 2013 @ 23:59:13

      great post

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  2. Marellus
    Sep 27, 2012 @ 01:23:58

    Reblogged this on The Commenter.

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  3. Alee
    Sep 27, 2012 @ 11:42:20

    I agree that some BWE blogs should focus more on the subject — black women.

    Interracial dating is a good topic though and I just thought that BWE bloggers didn’t talk more about the negative side of IR dating because they didn’t want to discourage black women. Women who’ve probably already heard a million times that IR dating is not for them and probably are already a little apprehensive about it.

    I’ve noticed black women can be easily discouraged by minor mishaps, e.g. being rejected by one guy. So it’s an unsteady line that bloggers have to tread, between being realistic and being discouraging. I’d hope that any women would know that in dating, regardless of who you are dating, it won’t always be peaches and ice cream.

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    • Neecy
      Sep 27, 2012 @ 16:32:15

      Hey Alee!

      Yes I agree and I did mentoin that i don’t think they are leaving out the negative for sinister reasons and I understand WHY they do it, I’m just not of the belief that it is helpful.

      I am aslo not down with trying to force a Black woman to see the light. Frankly, there may be very legitimate reasons for many Black women to avoid dating men of other races. The problems Black women are facing socially START from within ourselves as a collective. Meaning, what needs to be fixed is how we define ourselves as women NOT jumping from the pan into the frying pan (Black men to White men). because damaged and/or Black women simply escaping the Black matrix and running into the arms of White men is not going to solve any real problems facing Black women socially. A Black woman that has to be “talked into” dating interracially is not a Black woman that is ready IMO.

      That is why i say if the focus is more on Black female self improvement, the rest falls in place – interracial dating doesn’t have to be a discussion b/c healthy minded women will automatically test the waters.

      The realit is, we don’t need all Black women to be dating interracially. Just the ones who are healthy enough to handle the realities it will bring. There will be more rejection than acceptance at this point for Black women because we are still very socially ostracized based on people’s perceptions. The way so many BWE blogs go on about interracial relationships they relly make Black women believe its just a hop, skip and a jump and VIOLA! the White man is going to come to her aid, rescue her, love her and place her on a pedestal. NOT going ot happen most of the time.

      I feel less focus needs to be on interracial relationships as a form of Black female improvement and MORE on Black female improvement both individual and collectivley.

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      • Alee
        Sep 28, 2012 @ 11:54:03

        “The reality is, we don’t need all Black women to be dating interracially. Just the ones who are healthy enough to handle the realities it will bring.”

        Completely agree.

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  4. Neecy
    Sep 28, 2012 @ 14:17:36

    🙂 can be dangerous trying to recruit the wrong women. I feel like if you have to convince black women of something you’ve already lost the battle.

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    • Palesa
      Dec 11, 2016 @ 23:52:11

      And the way many do it is so hostile. I had to leave many so called BWE sites, because of how they treated other BW. That or they just constantly talk about BM.

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  5. kia
    Sep 28, 2012 @ 21:14:57

    I have noticed when black women start their own sites, that black men barge in to question why they don’t discuss xyz or adding their opinions to topics that have nothing to do with them. Example: speaking of their relationships with non black women when the site clearly states its for black women dating out, not black men dating out. That would be like if I went to a site for black men where they only discussed dating non black women. If I as a black woman came there discussing other men, they would curse me out and tell me to leave. But when a black woman has her own site, she is usually diplomatic and polite when speaking to black men online who comment on her site instead of either ignoring their comments or telling them that their site is for black women and other men (Non Black) and from a black woman’s perspective. And if they have issues they would like to discuss, there are plenty of black male centric sites they can go to. It’s one thing if black men who come to black womens’ site have have positive encouragement, but most of them try to change the topic, or criticize the web owner for not discussing certain topics, or to say how no one wants black women, or their sellouts for liking other men, or if other men are attracted to black women its because of a fetish. I think for the black women that have their own sites, they should keep the comments exclusive for black women and other men, because whenever they let black men comment they always have something negative to say or turn the topic back on themselves. This never seems to happen with other men. (Non Black)

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    • Neecy
      Sep 29, 2012 @ 09:22:21

      I agree. However, if a Black man comes in and is not being negative and is contributing honestly to the conversation I do’t have any problems with that. But other than that, I will not tolerte it.

      I’m letting Gregi’s negative comments through only once to show that there are even White men out there who are damaged and have negative views about Black women.

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  6. kia
    Sep 28, 2012 @ 21:52:22

    Didn’t mean to say black women empowerment sites only discuss dating out and non black men. I know they also discuss how to live a quality life and how to not let dbr others influence you on what you should and should not be doing with your life, and how to not let others use you as a mule.

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  7. gunslingergregi
    Sep 29, 2012 @ 01:04:35

    well if your coming with baggage like a black kid(s) it is gonna be real hard to get a white dude to marry that even without the kid. Might date ok but you start talking permenant and yea diferent story. But people fall in love i guess not that it couldn’t happen but yea white dudes ain’t growing up thinking bout marrying a black chick. Speaking of i usually see black chicks with there kids alone. Cause ain’t that how they get the benefits. Thing is all the black chicks in the projects with the free house and medical card for the most part so i mean they ain’t really needing for much they have their kids and then do what they want. Now the normal chicks i don’t know where the fuck they at.

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    • Neecy
      Sep 29, 2012 @ 09:15:13

      GREGI,

      I don’t mind you posting here, but your negativity about Black women, i won’t allow on my forum anymore b/c this form is about moving past the negatives that people are always talking about Black women.

      Its clear your experiences with Black women sound like the average low income Black man who is dealing with a certain caliber of Black women. I say that b/c you are talking about welfare queens and Black owmen living in the projects with tons of kids etc. Well yes those Black women have a certain set of circumastances they are dealing with day to day that don’t exactly make them the most happiest or sane women considering the men in those places abandone them (could that be the reason they are on welafre b/c the male who helped create the children is a lazy bum who left and doesn’t want to support the kids he created with them?).

      On my site and other sites with Black women and interracial dating, we are only focused on quality men who see the value and quality that Black women *ARE* bringing to the table. Of course if you lie down with dogs you are gonna get flieas. Works both ways.

      Your perceptions nad stereotypes of Black women are preeety disheatertening, b/c you obviously have a tunnel vision of only ONE kind of particualr Black owmen that you are either dealing with.

      When you drop your negativity about Black owmen in general, you may actually see there are some *NORMAL* decent Black women walking earth.

      You don’t speak for all White men. As I said, Blakc owmen who date interracially are not concerned with the majority or masses of White men and if they are truly going to “marry us” or date us. We are only concerned with the small percentage of open-minded good hearted quality men that see us as women FIRST and respect us a individuals and what we are bringint ot he table to create a solid relationship.

      The rest of you who have negative feelings about Black women, can either ignore and date other races (or your own kind) or can ontinue to be with the low caliber types that you deserve.

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  8. gunslingergregi
    Sep 29, 2012 @ 01:06:16

    or iguess get em young before they pick up the baggage as has been said on chatteue often cause older chicks got to much fucking baggage to make a future with.

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    • Neecy
      Sep 29, 2012 @ 09:19:57

      Not all older chicks have baagage and frankly men who feel this way i beg and plead for them to date younger women b/c no woman with any common sense wants to deal with a damaged man or negative man.

      I can guranatee you some younger women will come with a whole other set of isues or baggage as well. And then once men see that they start bitching about al women insted of looking from within FIRST and finding out what is wrong with THEM.

      the point I am making? Women with issues come in all age brackets.

      But for men who keep talking shit about older women, please do us a favor and date younger women – older women usually have very little time for drama, bullshit and negativity in their lives – from anybody especialy from men.

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  9. kia
    Sep 29, 2012 @ 02:30:51

    There are some ‘questionable’ people (usually dbr blacks) leaving negative comments on your site, saying how other men are not checking for black women. Just thought I’d alert you to that. I’ve said before on other black women sites: some black women who have their own sites make the mistake of having dialogue with dbr people online who feign interest in black women having a quality life or finding a quality mate, but will instead ‘gaslight’ by saying other men arent checking for black women, you dislike your own race, your unattractive, etc. These types of ‘people’ are trying to distract from the topic and want you to talk with them while spewing their negativity. I feel they should be ignored and they can go to the dbr black centric sites where they praise each other for their dbr ratchet behaviour instead of spewing their negative propoganda here.

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    • Neecy
      Sep 29, 2012 @ 09:08:59

      Hey kia,

      yeah I agree and just caught those posts. Still trying to decide if i will delete gregi’s posts or respond in kind. But sorry to inform you GREGI is actualy White, although its obvious his experiences and ways he writes sounds more ahem… …urban? lol

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  10. kia
    Sep 29, 2012 @ 14:26:06

    I don’t think that all black women who discuss dating out on their sites are obsessed with other men or see them as a step up in society. I think some black women sites that discuss dating out as a large topic of conversation because that site just happens to focus on interracial dating and not out of desperation. They also focus on empowering themselves and living a quality life. The reason why they discuss the positive side of interracial relationships so much is because black women are always being told if they date out with other men, they will be seen as fetish, your not attractive to other men, the relationship won’t last, etc. And their sites prove that black women who choose to date out are happy with other men in interracial relationships. They do discuss the realties of the good and bad of interracial relationships.

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    • Neecy
      Sep 30, 2012 @ 11:30:48

      Yes KIA I understand and not against BWE discussing IR ‘s. however I am against using it as the basis or the foundation of black female empowerment. It should simply be an EXTENSION of it not the FOUNDATIONS.

      Too much emphasis is p,aced or focused on interracial relationships and not enough emphasis on black female improvement and education on how to change their mind sets and remove the indoctrination.

      I get it. Yes black women may have fears of interracial dating and seeing and hearing the stories of women who are having success is a good thing. But IMO its gone above and beyond that to the point where some feel bwe start with interracial dating. It doesn’t – it starts in the mind!

      Also black women are not children. If I have to Hold a grown woman’s hand to tell her to stop being a door at for a group of men and to open her options to increase her chances of having better success, them IMO she needs to not be crossing the color lines until she gets her mind right.

      Damaged bw running into ir’s as a way to “escape” is not the answer. Bwe sites should first and foremost be focused on changing and improving the way black women see ourselves AS WOMEN and how to regain and reclaim our femininity. There are a lot of damaged and insecure black women out there. running off with other races of men FIRST is not going to solve their problems. God forbid that interracial relationship not work out and she gets hurt, she will be back to square one if her. Ind isnt right. I don’t believe in putting sugar over shit. Fix what’s wrong from WOTHIN and the you can venture out to the other extensions of bwe which is interracial dating.

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  11. kia
    Sep 29, 2012 @ 16:04:48

    All women have some amount of drama or emotional baggage. If some men are going to generalize older women by saying they have too much drama or emotional baggage, they shouldn’t be dating anyone. Younger women don’t deserve men who only consider them worthy of a relationship because of their youth. When these women get older, they will eventually be dumped for their age too by men that feel this way towards women. This man has already generalized all black women by saying most of them are welfare queens or the other half are undesirable because of their old age and drama/baggage. The men who say black women are undesirable because of xyz are generalizing, because you could say that about any woman, but everyone knows not all women are like this. Obviosuly when looking for a quality mate, you would focus on someone who is emotionally stable, and not denigrate an entire race of black women instead of focusing on the black women that are positive and doing something with their lives.

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    • Neecy
      Sep 30, 2012 @ 11:35:35

      RIGHT ON SPOT KIA !!

      I used to get bothered by men who did this but realized that those are not the kinds of men on my radar. I am only focused on non damaged men that can see the bigger picture. ALL people, gender, races and ages can come with baggage and other negative issues. People who constantly focus on one particular group or gender and harping solely on the negative traits can keep it moving in the next direction.

      Ultimately though. I find people who do this learn the hard way when they pedestalize certain people or groups – usually its those same people they pedestalize that do them in – not the ones they are constantly demeaning.

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  12. Brenda55
    Oct 01, 2012 @ 07:26:57

    Neecy,
    Love this post.
    My comment.
    Blogs cannot be all things to all people nor should they try to. Any black women who is reading a blog or two and expects to get the entire breadth of what BWE is from such a limited sample is on a fools errand.

    There are many voices within the BWE community and still more yet to be heard. There are many aspects of BWE that needs to be discussed and no one blogger should be expected to be the end all and be all go to source for all things BWE.

    Each blogger has their platform. Each blogger should use it to get their thesis across the their readers.
    We who consume this content have a responsibility to read as many of those sources that are available to us. Not seeing content you want? Blog it.

    Re. the IRR focus of some BWE and former BWE blogs. There are IRR success stories. Those success stories are out there and should be shared. Should these sites be required to add a disclaimer on the order of “your mileage may vary?” “Your experience may be different.” To me that is a given and just common sense and women should be able to figure that out themselves.

    Where is the proper place to tell black women that they may or may not have success in meeting and marrying non black men. Where does this lack of success fall for women who are not having success meeting and marrying men within their own race? Is it the men or her? There is no one answer really.

    BWE is about black women breaking free and exploring any number of life options. One of those being using their brains to critically think through their individual situation and charting their own individual life course. It is not about doffing one pre-manufactured life prescription and donning another and expecting it to be a perfect fit. That is what has IMO gotten black women in the fix that too many are currently in. You have to craft your life for yourself. It is up to each women to seek out the raw materials needed to create that life and not expect to sit in the church of blogger A,B or C and expect to get all of your answers.

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    • Neecy
      Oct 01, 2012 @ 10:42:33

      Hey Brenda thanks for stopping in! While I wholeheartedly agree with your post, the bottom line, still for me is NOT the focus of interracial relationships which I have plainly stated is an EXTENSION of BWE, but the obsession with it as it starts to be seen as a FOUNDATION of Black female improvement and empowerment. And this extends across many Black women empowerment bloggers – minus a few.

      Not only that, another disturbing aspect of this I often see is this idea that the ONUS is always on Black women to figure out ways around rejection and/or overcoming the challenges of interracial dating. It’s never really discussed on how other races of men have to (if they are interested in Black women) do their part to meet Black women halfway.

      It’s always “well if this isn’t working and you aren’t finding Non Black men, then YOU need to do this or you AREN’T doing this”. It’s always Black women need to put in all the work and effort. And many Black women are tired of being told “its them” as to why things are not or may not be working. Especially after reading entries upon entries about how “easy” it’s gonna be once a Black woman makes up her mind to expand her dating pool across the color lines.

      No woman should work overtime to get a man of any race. If they aren’t taking notice, then it’s their loss and Black women shouldn’t have to keep turning themselves into pretzels to get them to notice.

      That goes back to the online dating thing. Well if Non Black men are not seeking Black women, then its BLACK WOMEN who need to check all the boxes to get them noticed by these men who blatantly showed they had no interest in seeking Black females???!!! LOL

      I agree that we need a VARIETY of BWE bloggers with a variety of things to explore when it comes to BWE. But its i9s not difficult for even one blogger (if she chooses) to focus on a variety of things that encompass BWE.

      And you cannot have BWE AT ALL without the basis of self-respect and dignity. Without those two ideals you fall flat. So how can you skip over that and focus in Interracial relationships without covering the base foundation of what will garner success for BW in the IR dating arena? SELF RESECT/DIGNITY.

      I am simply expressing that I am discontented with some of the ideas and messages behind BW seeking interracial relationships and therefore, why I have blogged about my premise on the matter. I don’t go to these blogs disrespecting r disrupting the bloggers mission, but I feel certain things should be addressed or at least pointed out.

      I get it. You cannot escape the discussion of interracial dating and Black women b/c there have been so many indoctrinated Black women who need to see and understand that there are options for her outside of Black men. And yes they also need to hear and see of the successes of other Black women in such relationships.

      But we also cannot escape the REALITY that there are a lot of VULNERABLE and borderline desperate Black women out there who start to believe that simply (and RIGHTFULLY) cutting Black men out and running into the arms of other races of men will solve her problems as a Black woman. This seems to be the message more and more that I am seeing on many BWE that focus on Interracial relationships.

      It’s always “it’s all good”. “White men and other races are waiting with open arms to marry you and love you” “White men love your nappy hair and brown skin” and that is NOT so MOST of the time. Then BWE bloggers clean it up with “we only need one man” to love you. But often times its gonna take going through a whole slew of frogs before you even meet that one man.

      I get the impression based on what I read and many of the participants frustrations and responses that they are being led to believe that “it’s all good” and are struggling with understanding how BWE sites keep pushing this idea that it’s as simple and easy as Apple Pie to date and find men of other races who will just sweep a Black woman off her feet and marry her.

      I see the frustrations written in A LOT of the respondents on these sites and often times its b/c they were spoon fed all the “good stuff” by the minority of Black women in Interracial relationships and not really given the whole picture.

      And yes I will and am going to start blogging about the things I feel are missing in BWE. That is why I started with the last couple of posts addressing my discontentment with the direction the BWE “movement” is going.

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      • Brend55
        Oct 01, 2012 @ 15:26:46

        Well I really do hope you do post about the short comings re. BWE. I allowed I would like to be part of that conversation.

        As a woman married IR I do have to say that a lot of these sites who focus on that aspect of BWE are there because they are some of the few places where we can gather and talk about our lives with other women in our own situation. I think that that is a good thing and I for one am glad to have the opportunity to have spaces like that.

        You bring up a series of good questions and we have had some brief conversations on other blogs about this.

        On of the biggies seem to be just how easy is it to date and marry out side of one’s race. For black women just how easy is it to marry within her race. On a lot of blogs black women are advised to cast as wide net that they can that includes quality men of all races. Don’t eliminate any one that you may be interested in. If you are open to dating a non-black men and one is interested and available then go for it. I think that is pretty simple.

        Further limiting yourself to a small subset of the population is not in a woman’s best interest if her goal is to marry. Again it is the wide net.

        Finally it is a numbers game. There are more non-black men out there then there are black women who are interested in them so the numbers are to the advantage of women.

        All of this is not the same as saying that there is this overwhelming ground swell of non-black men with pent up demands who want black women. Non-black men who want black woman are in the minority. It has always been that way. Black women who want non-black men are in the minority also.

        The frustrations that some black women are having reaching their goal of meeting and marrying a non-black man is the same as what non-black men have gone through in fulfilling their desire to meet and marry a black women.

        There have been and continue to be road blocks for the two sides to come together. Some of the change is structural. There is more contact between the to groups. Some is attitude. Black women being more open to IR dating and being receptive to a non-black man’s approach. Non-black men feeling that the option of a black woman as a wife is a viable one. These changes are occurring slowly and that may be the source of some of the frustration that black women who have not successfully found their non-black partner are having with some of the BWE sites who discuss IRRs.

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        • Neecy
          Oct 01, 2012 @ 19:33:16

          Well I really do hope you do post about the short comings re. BWE. I allowed I would like to be part of that conversation.


          Brenda you are always welcome to post your views and I would love to get your imsight on future posts regarding BWE and Black women in general. I promise they all won’t be me bitching and moaning about this and that. Thee are a lot of good things to discuss about BWE as well as improvements 🙂

          As a woman married IR I do have to say that a lot of these sites who focus on that aspect of BWE are there because they are some of the few places where we can gather and talk about our lives with other women in our own situation. I think that that is a good thing and I for one am glad to have the opportunity to have spaces like that.

          I see your point and undertand. please don’t get me wrong its imperative that Black women understad their options nad utilize them if they truly want to see that there are men out there of another race than cana nd will appreiate them. I believe its importnt for BW in IR’ to have a haven for themselves and others to discuss thier relationships since we don’t often receive support from the outside. And we are going to need these spaces more and more and BW cross the color lines b/c I fear there may be increased push back from outside as our numbers grow. We will definitley need a support system in place for all of us.

          ironically, Evia’s site focuses on interracial dating as its main focus and I don’t seem to have the same feelings about her site as I do others. maybe its because her premise is always that Black women need to improve thier mindsets and understand their value despite how Black men and people have devalued us as a whole.

          I guess its just certain things that kinda make me uncomfortable in some of the discussions from some of the women.

          I would honestly liek to see the discussions on Interracial relationships move more into the *meat* of these relationships and talk about how it is raising bi racial kids, what its like dealing with family, overcoming challenges int he work place. Those kinds of topics can definitley help many Blakc owmen understand how to deal with these issues as they come.

          But I see your points and agree 🙂

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      • Palesa
        Dec 12, 2016 @ 00:18:04

        “It’s always “well if this isn’t working and you aren’t finding Non Black men, then YOU need to do this or you AREN’T doing this”. It’s always Black women need to put in all the work and effort. And many Black women are tired of being told “its them” as to why things are not or may not be working. Especially after reading entries upon entries about how “easy” it’s gonna be once a Black woman makes up her mind to expand her dating pool across the color lines.”

        What does the above sound like?

        Women’s magazines.

        What do they and BW centered blogs/websites have in common?

        They are selling something. Making money.

        What do they both do to make money?

        Keep women readers coming back by berating them. Always telling them what’s wrong with them and how to fix it etc

        Of course Women’s mags are losing readers. You also have BW abandoning BWE, because of the hot mess going on in many of these spaces.

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  13. Omerta327
    Oct 01, 2012 @ 09:38:17

    Hey Neece,

    I know about as much about these BWE blogs as I do about chinese algebra. So I’ll just stay on the sidelines for this one and let you ladies hash this out. I really have nothing to add to the conversation.

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  14. kia
    Oct 01, 2012 @ 11:15:50

    Neecy – I’m reposting here because you probably get a ton of emails. I sent you an email from ‘Betty Chambers’ site from the article ‘Wayne Brady vs Bill Maher’. Usually I agree with most of what Betty says but this post – There was a ‘gaslighter’ on there arguing in long diatribes in circles about how if black women are interested in dating out, including other countries, they would have to be exceptionally attractive or have supermodel looks like Naomi Campbell. Basically saying that some black women are more attractive than others and anyone who doesn’t look like that will be forced to settle for average men because they’re not considered attractive enough for non black men. And no other race of women has to settle for average men, because they have no problem attracting men, just black women. I said obviously every man wants an attractive woman and vice versa, but to specifically state that some black women are more attractive than others, and the ones who are not will be forced to settle because they’re considered too ugly for certain types of men or non black men is mysoginistic.

    Notice they only said this about black women specifically, never mentioning other races of women will be forced to settle, just black women. And all other races of women are just fine. When I called them out on arguing with a ‘gaslighter’ who was talking in circles, they told me to be quiet and not post anymore, and they wouldn’t respond to my posts anymore. Black women can go anywhere on the planet and find men that attracted to them. Obviously you would focus on the men who are attracted to you and ignore the ones who are not. For someone to specifically tell black women who are interested in dating out that only some of them will find quality men because some of them are not attractive enough for other men because they’re considered too ugly for them is mysoginistic.

    There are ugly and beautiful people of all races – But everyone has different standards of what they consider attractive. What’s considered ugly to one person might be attractive to someone else. That’s why they say beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There doesn’t need to be a disclaimer at the beginning of every post saying some men will find you attractive. Some won’t. Any sane person knows you would focus on the ones who are attracted to you and ignore the ones who are not. Anyone that says otherwise is trolling and gaslighting and they don’t want you to find a quality mate. First they said non black men are not attracted to black women. Then you see Noami Campbell dating a white billionare – and many other interracial couples – and they do a 360, and suddenly say they will date black women but only if they’re extremely attractive. Or its just a fetish and he won’t marry you. But you go to ‘Black Female Interracial Marriage’ http://www.blackfemaleinterracialmarriage.com/ – and you see attractive black women though not models, still just as attractive, still managed to marry a white man. Because most women on the planet including black women are not models, but that doesn’t mean they’re ugly, and they still manage to marry non black men.

    My favorite quote from Oshun starting at #42
    ‘How kind of you to warn black women to stay in their lanes. LOL – And you were so practical about it by saying – “Thats just life”. How nice of you to be so concerned that black women are going to land in Europe en masse hunting for handsome billionaires.’

    http://bettychambers.com/?p=1995#comments
    Starting with #30 Jalilmaster

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    • Neecy
      Oct 01, 2012 @ 11:25:23

      Hey Kia!

      Hmmm. Before I comment I am going to have to read the entire thread. Because I find it hard to believe that Betty would allow somoene to randomly post negativity about BW and not say anything or try to shut down another BW arguing against it. Because I am familiar with betty Chambers site and like her writing style and some of her topics I’m going ot give her the benefit of the doubt and when I have time read through all the comment son that particula rpost to get an idea of what is really being said.

      If what you say is true, I find it hard to believe she would allow someone to say that, unless you misunderstood since most BWE bloggers are adament about removing negativity towards Black women.

      but i will read the post later and then give my impression or comment son the issue you brought up 🙂

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  15. kia
    Oct 01, 2012 @ 11:36:13

    Betty Chambers – Wayne Brady vs Bill Maher – Comment #42
    Jalilmaster – ‘My point was that folks shouldn’t see Naomi dating a handsome billionaire (I wouldn’t go into their relationship here), and say, ah, there is a black woman with that very handsome, very wealthy white man, and decide to trudge over to Europe to get one for themselves, all the while ignoring who the black woman is. Most men like that tend to go for the same type of woman. If he was dating a white woman, she would be another beautiful woman, not just anybody. Men of that calibre have that luxury, especially if they also get to be handsome as well. That’s just life.’

    Oshun – ‘How kind of you to warn black women to stay in their lanes. LOL – And you were so practical about it by saying – ‘Thats just life’. How nice of you to be so concerned that black women are going to land in Europe en masse hunting for handsome billionaires. I also say that no one gets to decide what’s considered beautiful, handsome, or rich enough regarding relationships except the relationship’s potential participants. So black gals cross Monaco and the Alps off your vacation lists. Too many potential millionaires/billionaires there. Stay in your lane.’

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    • Neecy
      Oct 01, 2012 @ 11:58:55

      Ok I honestly don’t see what was wrong with Jalilmaster’s comment. She was basically saying that black women should be realistic about what they are going to get. an unspoken PC truth that a lot of women don’t want to believe or hear.

      Basically I have to agree to a certain extent of what she is saying. There are women of a certain caliber that will for the most part have more options in men than others. That’s just reality and we see it every day. And yes, there are some women who are more attractive than others. REALITY.

      Just like more highly attractive people usually get better treatment, better jobs etc. Does that mean *ONLY* attractive or highly attractive people get good jobs or treated better ? NO. But for the most part the more attractive you are the more options you have in the dating market for the more sought after men.

      Can an average BW find love with a highly sought after European billionaire? Uhm Maybe but not highly likely. The same way no average WHite woman would be able to compete with a highly attractive sought after beautiful WHite woman for a European billionaire.

      I get your point, but I think you are also getting upset over a reality and uncomfortable truth. YES the more attractive you are as a woman the better your options. PERIOD. This does not mean that an average woman of average looks cannot and will not find a good man that loves and appreciates her. Most women are average in the world. Very few are exceptionally beautiful. But for those who are, they do get better options with more highly sought after wealthy men.

      Kia, men in general are visual. they will *ALWAYS* want for the most attractive woman. While beauty is in the eye of the beholder, most people can agree on what is average and what is above average and what is beautiful.

      Getting upset b/c Jalil pointed out a truth isn’t going to change anything. She is simply saying that BW should not be too delusional to believe that if you are of average in looks that you will have the same pick of the litter when it comes to HIGHLY SOUGHT AFTER men with ample amount of choices in a variety of women. These men will always go for the crème la crème in looks b/c THEY CAN.

      Why would a highly sought after wealthy man settle for average when he can get better than average in looks with all other things being equal? That is just how people (and men especially) work when it comes to dating IF they have the ability to get the best.

      In my eyes she is saying that Black women need to be realistic. And frankly, a lot of Black women aren’t too realistic about what they are bringing to the table physically and what they expect of the men they seek. Many Black women who are overweight still believe they should be able to compete for the highly sought after FIT attractive men that women who are more fit should. And when these men don’t buy into that, Black women say it’s because they are shallow. NO.

      I am a big believer of “stay in your lane”. Don’t try to purse a person that is out of your league looks wise. If more people followed this philosophy we’d have better long lasting and REALISTIC relationships.

      The only people who can usually demand that are others who are highly sought after (usually males) who are wealthy and can bring something ese to the table in exchange or getting the best looking women they can find.

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  16. kia
    Oct 01, 2012 @ 14:03:51

    Are my posts going through or did you delete them? I don’t see my posts.

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  17. kia
    Oct 01, 2012 @ 14:15:29

    FROM – ‘BLACK FEMALE INTERRACIAL MARRIAGE’

    FETISH OR WITCH HUNT? MORE AVERAGE BLACK WOMEN MARRIED TO WHITE MEN
    The Nortons are billionaire philanthropists and owners of Norton Antivirus. He has married 2 African American women (who are just average looking black women) and was accused of having a fetish for black women–since he prefers black women and has dated and married 2 of them. But another amazing thing that just occurred to me is that there are only 110 billionaires in the world and 2 African American women: Gwen Adams and Mellody Hobson are the known long term partners/wives of 2 of them. There may be others, but I just know about those two. When you think about it, that is pretty phenomenal!! Plus, there are many black women wives and longterm partners to wealthy white men and other non black men who are not billionaires, but have substantial means. And note that these two women do NOT look like Halle Berry, Beyonce, or Mariah Carey. I want African american women to remember that the next time someone tells them to just settle since they don’t stand a chance of securing an upscale white man/non black man mate, according to their poisoners.

    http://www.blackfemaleinterracialmarriage.com/2012/06/bwiimr-slice-fetish-or-witch-hunt.html

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    • Neecy
      Oct 01, 2012 @ 19:59:45

      Kia we are talking two different things here. no one is saying that Black women have to settle. If you are average yourself what is wrong with being with another average person? It seem to me you are getting upset over something for no reason. No one said anythign about Black women *settling* all Jalil was pointing out is that certain Black women of a certain caliber or looks are going to have *MORE OPTIONS, OPPORTUNITIES and CHOICES* in dating wealthier or more highly sought after men than others.

      Sure there are a small number of men with an abundance of options who look past looks and focus only on the other attributes a woman is brinign to the table. but that is not ALL or MOST of hte times.

      most average people end up with other average people – that is not settling. you seem to be saying that average Black women deserve to seek out mates who aren’t average like them. Once can easily say you are being shallow?

      Personally i don’;t see the big hoopla. most women of any race will not have an opportnity to date or be wth rich billionaores so I am not sure why we are even having this discussion.

      if you are an average Black woman you should be seeking someone on your level – not out hunting billionaores. The odds of you snagging one are slim to none no matter the small exceptions.

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  18. kia
    Oct 01, 2012 @ 15:27:40

    It goes without saying that attractive men and women are always going to have an easier time finding partners. That’s obvious. The point I’m making is people have different ideas of what’s attractive. What’s ugly to one person could be considered attractive to someone else. So when someone says ‘Your going to Italy. Italian men are not attracted to black women. Don’t expect to go to Italy and have italian men trying to date you.’ That would be a generalization. Even if a large segment of men or rich men are only attracted to certain types of women, that would still leave enough quality men for black women interested in dating out. There are people that say rich white men don’t date black women because they’re not attractive. But then you see Noami dating a white billionare. There are people that say other men are not attracted to black women, and if they are, its a fetish despite the evidence online and in public.

    There are white women who are getting their lips and butts surgically enhanced to resemble what most black women were born with, when a few years ago these were not desired traits in women. I know rich men go for attractive women. All men want attractive women and vice versa. That’s obvious. No other race of women except black women are told half of you are not attractive enough to men and you will have to settle for whoever you can get, and a only a small percentage of you will be able to find quality men or handsome rich men. I wasn’t speaking of the stereotypical black women who are overweight, on welfare with 5 kids. I was specifically speaking of the type of black women that are attractive, thin, have a job, no kids, etc. Jalimaster was generalizing ALL black women by saying half might be able to find a non black handsome rich man, and the other half will be forced to settle for average men, because they’re not considered attractive enough for most men. They never once mentioned other races of women having to settle, just black women.

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  19. kia
    Oct 01, 2012 @ 15:48:04

    NEECY – “While beauty is in the eye of the beholder, most people can agree on what is average and what is above average and what is beautiful.”

    KIA – Attractive men want attractive women. That’s obvious. But everyone on the planet has different ideas of what’s considered attractive. All men are not attracted to the same thing. You could interview 50 men from different countries, about what type of woman they consider attractive, and they would all give you a different answer of what type of woman they’re attracted to, because they’re not all attracted to the same things in women.

    Someone (Not you Neecy) always has to barge in and state ‘Some of you black women are not good enough for other men, so don’t go around thinking you can get anyone you want. You better find an average man. You have no business trying to date upscale men that are not average. Leave them for other women.’

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    • Neecy
      Oct 01, 2012 @ 20:03:19

      Yes beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but there are certain things that just don’t budge. People still always will agree for the most part on what deems attractiveness. A group of women can look at a hot man like say Michael Fassenberg or Chris Evans and agree that these men are for the most part very attractive. Now there may be a minority of women who say they don’t do anything for them, but overall people will always for the most part agree on attractiveness.

      Most people (not all) would agree that Rihanna is a pretty girl. There may be a select minority who feels she doesn’t quite cut it, but most people would agree on this.

      Most people would agree that Precious 9the girl from the movie Precious) may not be as attractive as Naomi Campbell.

      Yes individuals will ally shave their own tastes, but on a grander scale most people can agree for the most part what deems an attractive person just by looking at them.

      I’m not sure why we are discussing this issue Most women don’t have access to rich wealthy billionaires!

      And no one said anything about Black women settling. Telling Black women to stay in your lane and to not be DELUSIONAL about what you can most likely attract is not the equivalent nor does it equal telling Black women they have to settle. if you idea of dating an average guy is *settling* when you, yourself is average, then you have the issues.

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  20. kia
    Oct 01, 2012 @ 22:40:35

    I think we have to agree to disagree. What I and Evia from her site ‘Black Female Interracial Marriage’ was saying was that some people are telling black women that only certain types of men will want them because of how attractive they are. And we think that whether your considered average or gorgeous, there have always been a variety of black women on her site and in the world who still managed to date or marry men who others would perceive to be out of their league.

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    • Neecy
      Oct 02, 2012 @ 07:48:59

      I will agree that Black owmen need to block out negativity when it comes to saying what we “can” and “cannot” get. But I think we are discussing two different things hre, so yeah we’ll agree to disagree on this one. 🙂

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  21. gunslingergregi
    Oct 06, 2012 @ 11:17:38

    told black chick about chick slitting wrist when i said it was over she said she ain’t gonna be doing that when i eventually leave out to go home so she can’t stay with me for now and just have fun. She’ll prob be back later but yea i mean told her i was married all that from the beginning. How should i handle that so we can still have a good time but don’t have her fall in lurv?
    ps she feeds me at table in resteraunts we been having fun.
    why can’t we just enjoy each others company

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    • Neecy
      Oct 11, 2012 @ 18:07:14

      WAIT. Stop the presses.

      Um if I am reading and making this out correctly, you are saying that you are married and having an affair with another woman who you just want to continue to have fun with?

      If so, then you already know what my response is to you since I do not consone cheating – especially in a marraige.

      Why are you cheating on your wife!?

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      • gunslingergregi
        Oct 17, 2012 @ 18:58:17

        not cheating on her i was allowed before marriage the way i set up the vows but not with her at moment so yea need some quasi lovin

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  22. gunslingergregi
    Oct 06, 2012 @ 11:20:35

    she said it can’t be all about her and what she wants she has a daughter to worry about that she has to live for
    how do i make it less serious cause there does seem to be a tendency for woman to think they in love but yet it doesn’t have to be that serious jebus

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  23. gunslingergregi
    Oct 06, 2012 @ 11:39:36

    allright so i showed her the pic and then she had allready seen pic of chick and she kind of hot white chick so that may have fucked with her head some too
    is that why she got scared about her eventually going nuts when i leave or some shit

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  24. gunslingergregi
    Oct 06, 2012 @ 12:25:17

    she allready texting me back quicker than i thought
    ””u ok?”’

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  25. Evia
    Oct 09, 2012 @ 12:16:39

    Neecy, I love this discussion. I’m often dismayed at what some people consider BWE to mean to them, and this is why I’ve distanced myself from the term “BWE.” I describe myself as a writer of “common sense” for bw.

    1. For ex., in MY mind, BWE never ever was “synonymous” with interracial dating or marriage to, just like eating oatmeal for breakfast isn’t connected in my mind with BWE. However, if you are an empowered woman, you may very well date, love, marry, and reproduce interracially and you may also eat oatmeal for breakfast. If you are an empowered woman, you simply make those kinds of choices for yourself. It’s also very easy for a bw to date,love, marry and reproduce with the whitest white man and not feel empowered at all.

    2. It’s really unfortunate that so many folks have become so totally obsessed with bw and IRs. When I started writing about IRs, I was simply writing about MY life and saying to other bw that if they were interested in dating/marrying IR or interculturally, then go for it. I post pics to show that average bw can do and do this every day. However, the pics only show the exterior of these women, not the internal makeup. As I’ve often said, it’s the mental aspect of us that rules.

    3. Re the difficulty that some bw have getting wm online to date. I agree with Brenda55 who stated above that there are many wm AND some other nonbm who are interested in bw, but these two segments are somehow not connecting. So a lot depends on your vantage point.

    4. I agree that there are some unhealthy bw out there who appear to be desperate and will have a problem meshing with ANY QLL man, just like there are emotionally unhealthy women of other groups who have terrible track records with men. Those women need to get help first. Many of these women don’t know they need help though.

    5. Re “beautiful” women getting more men, I have to say that if I had a daughter, I’d make sure she learned how to play her female cards instead of her focusing on her beauty. I say that because yeah, if you’re a “beautiful” woman who knows how to play her female cards, then you’re on top of the heap, but if you’re beautiful and lack that kind of savvy, you will easily be used and could easily end up alone and empty-handed. I’m older so I have seen some of these situations come full-circle. I see many “once-beautiful” or so-called “foine” middle aged and older bw who have been used and abused to the max. This happens a lot more than beautiful women being at the top of the heap because “beautiful” women attract a lot all kinds of men and many of those men are charming predators. MOST bw do not know how to deal with predators, so they get chewed up.

    6. I’m not sure how you define “average woman” or “average man.” These are not the same, IMO. I believe that an average-“looking” woman can get a QLL man if she knows how to play her female cards and these men tend to be high-average and above. So, I don’t know whether you mean average “looking” when you talk about “average” in a man. Just to be clear, I don’t put much weight on a man’s looks as long as he’s clean, well-groomed, etc. I evaluate a man based primarily on what he can produce, how effective he is at problem-solving, providing, and protecting–NOT based on his looks. Of course, I would say the man should have average looks, but most men tend to be in the average looking range since that’s what average means. For ex., I think that Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg are in the average looking range.

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    • Neecy
      Oct 11, 2012 @ 17:53:04

      Hey Evia!! Thanks for stopping by and I must say I’m honored 

      Re “beautiful” women getting more men, I have to say that if I had a daughter, I’d make sure she learned how to play her female cards instead of her focusing on her beauty. I say that because yeah, if you’re a “beautiful” woman who knows how to play her female cards, then you’re on top of the heap, but if you’re beautiful and lack that kind of savvy, you will easily be used and could easily end up alone and empty-handed. I’m older so I have seen some of these situations come full-circle. I see many “once-beautiful” or so-called “foine” middle aged and older bw who have been used and abused to the max. This happens a lot more than beautiful women being at the top of the heap because “beautiful” women attract a lot all kinds of men and many of those men are charming predators. MOST bw do not know how to deal with predators, so they get chewed up.

      Simply put beautiful women will always s*FIRST* have the pick of the litter. Then yes, all other things will be considered on whether or not she is able to maintain a quality relationship or man based on what is going on, on the inside. I am not arguing the deeper meaning – just the simple fact that highly attractive or beautiful women will always get first pick at the top notch men. PERIOD. This is not to say that average women cannot attract a high top notch man. But with all things being equal, the more physically appealing women will win out WHEN a man has an abundance of choices he can make. That is just the reality. All I was saying is that Black women should be more focused on finding a quality man and not hunting billionaires b/c the odds of ANY AVERAGE WOMAN OF ANY RACE is slim to none in finding super sought after top notch men who are wealthy and have the pick of the litter when it comes to choosing the best mate. In the case of Naomi Campbell we all now this woman is not beautiful on the inside. But the fact is she will still have more opportunities to meet wealthier men b/c of her status and her looks compared to a regular average Black woman.

      6. I’m not sure how you define “average woman” or “average man.”

      I’m talking looks.

      These are not the same, IMO. I believe that an average-”looking” woman can get a QLL man if she knows how to play her female cards and these men tend to be high-average and above.

      In the sense that she is very feminine and carries herself well then YES. As I do bel9eve that femininity trumps looks because an aesthetically beautiful woman who acts masculine or has abborish behavior will never be seen the same positive was as an average woman of average looks but who acts feminine and carries herself well.

      So, I don’t know whether you mean average “looking” when you talk about “average” in a man.

      Yes. I believe that a lot of Black women place a great deal of emphasis on finding *HOT* gorgeous men, and seem to overlook that in order to compete for these men with other women who may be more physically appealing and desirable physically with all things being equal. People in general delude themselves thinking that although they are average looking, they should be able to compete with other non-average looking people for the most handsome or most beautiful mates.

      If people were more realistic and stayed within their *lanes* there would be more quality relationships. It’s just like the fat girl who feels she is deserving of the fit ADONIS guy b/c that is what she wants I say no. You should seek your own level. This is not saying that you should settle. But if you are not physically fit and you feel you should have a man that is built like THE ROCK, then you are delusional. This applies in all other areas.

      Just to be clear, I don’t put much weight on a man’s looks as long as he’s clean, well-groomed, etc. I evaluate a man based primarily on what he can produce, how effective he is at problem-solving, providing, and protecting–NOT based on his looks.

      I completely agree with this. However, most women especially Black women do not base a man’s desirability on that, and that is the problem. They want the perfect looking man when they themselves are not even perfect looking is what I am saying. There is a girl I once used to know who was past 35 in age still single but expected any man she dates to be super hot, over 6 feet tall and have all the other desirable qualities. I felt her physical standards were too high, especially for someone her age and for someone who was/is average looking at best herself.

      Of course, I would say the man should have average looks, but most men tend to be in the average looking range since that’s what average means.

      MOST people (both men and women are average in looks IMO with a minority of very good looking or beautiful people.

      For ex., I think that Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg are in the average looking range.

      Agreed.
      And P.S. Thanks for stopping by. I admire you for all the work you do at opening the eyes of black women Evia. Your site was the very first site I read and I am so happy you are still working to enlighten Black women who have been caught in the Matrix for centuries.

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  26. Ramon
    Oct 10, 2012 @ 03:14:13

    Hello Neecy,

    Some interesting thoughts you bring to the table. I think the key is to get to know yourself as an individual (apart from ethnic labels,etc) and being able to present them in any interaction. Especially in online interaction this can be hard, since there is such a big pile of people to choose from so we tend to base our choice to engage or not on shallow trademarks. This disables many people to present who they are beyond the external labels that are given to them.

    A complicated issue. Just to go places where you know your surface trades are respected or make a conscious effort to break through the shallowness? I don’t know. Maybe it is easy for me to say these things since I am a white male. I never experienced how it is to be part of a minority. Maybe I would support the paradox of starting off anonymous (in order not to be labelled from the start) to able yourself to come to a deeper connection.

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    • Neecy
      Oct 11, 2012 @ 17:59:15

      HI RAMON!! Thanks for posting.

      Yes I agree that people in general need to maximize their opportunities by going to places or where they can interact where they will be appreciated. the thing with online dating as you suggested as well as others, is that it is a place where people get to narrowly choose what they prefer b/c of the large pool of applicants.

      So if Black women are seeing that online dating in general is exclusionary towards them based on race, then i am saying, maybe Black women need to be more creative and find other ways to make connections outside of online dating. Simply use online dating as a last resort, but to not put all or even half thier eggs in that basket.

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  27. Queen of the Pen
    Oct 11, 2012 @ 15:27:01

    Just like any woman seeking a quality relationship, Black women are not excluded from the responsibility of vetting. There are deadbeat men of all ethnic groups. Interracial relationships were never meant to substitute for proper vetting. Black women who use interracial relationships as an escape from their bad choices in men are delusional. No matter what ethnic group the man is from, if the Black women has a tendency to choose badly, she will interracially date and marry badly.

    Black women must begin to understand that if they are to have a better life and love relationships, they must improve their self-esteem, self-image, and self-worth. It is only at that point will Black women truly realize their freedom to love Black or non-Black.

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    • Neecy
      Oct 11, 2012 @ 18:04:40

      AMEN to you post Queen Pen!

      This is the point I am trying to get across. Too many Black women feel that crossing the color lines will solve the internal issues that may have within.

      I say for the Black women who have it together – they should GO FOR IT bc they are strong enough to understand what is right and what is best for them in a man and therefore will be able to properly vett to make sure they do not enter relaitonships with damaged men.

      But there are still some damaged Black owmen out there who feel running to other races will sole thier problems and it just won’t.

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  28. Christelyn Russell-Karazin
    Oct 11, 2012 @ 22:43:12

    Boo! I just made a BRILLIANT comment and it went poof. Basically what I said was that I agree there should be balance in the BWE/IRR conversation. I write about what I know about IRR, and honestly, overall I had a good experience. The non-black men who expressed their interest to truly good and sincere. It worked out for me. I know that’s not the case with everyone, and I think a site like what you have here is a good addition. It’s also why I brought on some many new writers. You know I love you and think you’re brilliant, rabble rouser that you are. 😉

    But question for you: Do you think that black women get enough discouragement and warning about the perils of IRR from non-BWE sites?

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    • Neecy
      Oct 11, 2012 @ 23:03:00

      CHRISSY!!!!

      No fret your comment was not lost in cyberspace. LOL

      I respect and love what you are doing – truly. I’m so glad to see your success at really getting the messg across. And as I have said, although I may not always agree with you on certain things, I can ALWAYS maintain that your heart is in the right place to encourage Black women and others to finally see the possibilities of love beyond what we have been told to expect.

      I guess I get very frsutrated when i see Black women on these forums (participants & bloggers) coming up with all kinds of ways to turn ourselves into pretzels to be seen or noticed by non Black men who haven’t made the effort.

      I also just feel sometimes the message is that when ther are problems with things not coming together between BW/WM its b/c of what BLACK WOMEN are or are not doing. the focus is never really on the men. Which then leads me to feel that there is a one sided message being sent to Black women that its really only *US* causing the delay when the reality is its not always us and that its really not going to be as easy as some IRR forums make it out to be.

      My main gripe is that sometimes I wish there were more balance/ And yes I do know there are tons of outlets out there discouraging Black women from dating IR, however any BW with half a brain can see that the root of their message is rooted in lies and paranoia with no best interests of Black women in mind.

      That is completely different from Pro IRR blogs or BWE blogs giving a balance in a healthy and realistic way so that many Black women are not blindsided.

      I don’t think it should be two extreme messages out there – i.e. the perils of BW dating IR or the Euphoria of BW and IR dating. i think its up to Pro IRR bloggers and sites to balance the IR agenda out with posiivity, honesty and realism.

      PS congrats on the CNN piece and book – you are not playing around and I have to really commend you for not just talking but really doing the footwork for your passion. You have also inspired me to start focusing on getting my isht together since I have been for years trying to go public with my form of BWE. Keep up the good work!! 😉

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      • Z
        Oct 12, 2012 @ 12:22:09

        “I also just feel sometimes the message is that when ther are problems with things not coming together between BW/WM its b/c of what BLACK WOMEN are or are not doing. the focus is never really on the men. Which then leads me to feel that there is a one sided message being sent to Black women that its really only *US* causing the delay when the reality is its not always us and that its really not going to be as easy as some IRR forums make it out to be.”

        My response to that would be that the only person you can change is yourself. You can’t change the men or project outward what we’d like for them to do. And since the majority of readers on BF sites are BW- the only entity you have control over is yourself, so if you are not attracting the people you’d want to attract into your life all you can do is change your course of action.

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        • Neecy
          Oct 12, 2012 @ 20:20:15

          Hi Z!

          I completely agree and would say the same thing. The point I am making is simply that it needs to be stressed that sometimes a Black woman *CAN* do all the right things and may not be successful at every try b/c the man for whatever reason is not interested.

          It goes back to the balance and realism and pointing out that a lot of times she may hit a brick wall – and that is not to give up, but understand that it’s not always about what BW are or aren’t doing. Sometimes it’s about the MAN and his own issues or reasons. That’s all I am saying. Not that BW can do anything to change what some men do, but that they need to be aware and not feel that if something failed it was always her fault b/c o something she did or not do. Sometimes it’s just as simple as the man was not interested b/c of his own personal issues or reasons.

          It’s not always going to be easy peasy as some people believe it is. Then they become discouraged and give up. If they had the full story they’d be more willing to dust themselves off and keep trying without feeling its always *them* that’s the problem.

          That’s all.

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  29. KingsDaughter
    Oct 12, 2012 @ 03:30:24

    “I guess I get very frsutrated (sic) when i see Black women on these forums (participants & bloggers) coming up with all kinds of ways to turn ourselves into pretzels to be seen or noticed by non Black men who haven’t made the effort.”

    NUFF SAID!

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  30. Evia
    Oct 12, 2012 @ 06:17:21

    I also just feel sometimes the message is that when ther are problems with things not coming together between BW/WM its b/c of what BLACK WOMEN are or are not doing. the focus is never really on the men. Which then leads me to feel that there is a one sided message being sent to Black women that its really only *US* causing the delay when the reality is its not always us and that its really not going to be as easy as some IRR forums make it out to be.

    Neecy, this is a good point that comes from your vantage point, HOWEVER, bw and wm are not in the same position–at all, so I think that bw are in La-La-land when they say that we need to (or even “can”) work on wm or on men, period. I approach this from the standpoint that it is BLACK (or AA) WOMEN who are most in need of committed partners, husbands. I’m honestly not concerned about white men or any men (aside from my sons) not finding wives because I know I can’t save ‘alla our people.’ LOL!

    There’s an extremely low probability that bw are going to get wm who don’t like bw interested in them. I think that this is where the rejection is mostly coming from. Bw should ONLY focus on those wm and non-bm who are interested. Owing to the difference in population, there doesn’t need to be tens of millions of these men. I know that the problem is “where” are these men? I believe they are everywhere, and this is why I encourage bw to mingle, mingle, mingle. But bw cannot just see a cute white guy or seemingly QLL man online or off and say, “I’ve got to have him.” This won’t work for most women of any group.

    Also, when I started out, MOST of the bw I knew offline personally refused to date wm, no matter what or they always found something to nit-pick about wm whereas they would accept just about any bm whole-hog or to use your term “pedastalized” bm. Most of the bw I STILL encounter may say they’re open to the possibility of a relationship with a wm, but they’re foolishly not willing to change one iota of their mentality or lifestyle to make that happen.

    Also, it is really SO disgusting and sad to me to hear about these pitiful, desperate bw online pursuing wm or nonbm who don’t want them, but aside from them, I still sense a lot of ridiculous resistance among bw toward IR dating and mingling, even though some of these women are taking their last gasp or mating “down” or doing other questionable things.

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    • Neecy
      Oct 12, 2012 @ 20:31:20

      Yes Eva

      I believe the disconnect is somewhere in believing that we need all or most WM to be interested. When a BW goes to an IR forum she may be thinking in her brain, that once *SHE* decides she is open and ready for IR’s that all she has to do is show some interest and everything will fall in place. This is not so and I think many BW are seeing this online.

      Granted quite a few BW have meet their Non Black S/O’s online but many more aren’t. I think when BW feel discouraged and come to the forums confused and/or expressing concern about this, this may be because they believed they stood a chance with MOST WM or others and are shocked and dismayed at the blatant exclusion.

      I think BW would do best focusing their attention on finding the WM and others who without a doubt have no qualms with loving a BW. Spending energy on online dating sites trying to be noticed by Non BM who aren’t trying to notice you is a waste of energy and I believe will only lead to making Black women look desperate.

      The numbers work in our favor b/c we are such a small minority compared to WM. But that still mean BW interested in IR exclusively should be coming up with creative ways and avenues to place themselves around Non Black men who would love to be with a BW no questions asked. These men are a minority which means its gonna take some creativity to find them.

      I still think Online dating is a good place but should not be the MAIN place where BW expect to find partners. Its going to take a lot more effort in the sense that BW have to learn how to get out and mingle with others face to face.

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  31. Evia
    Oct 12, 2012 @ 06:45:31

    However, most women especially Black women do not base a man’s desirability on that, and that is the problem. They want the perfect looking man when they themselves are not even perfect looking is what I am saying.

    Whhhhhaaaaaatttt???? Neecy, this reminds me of the reason I stopped taking comments on my sites. Geez! So, this will be my last comment.

    Your statement about what most bw want is both laughable and sad. If most bw are out there looking for the “perfect looking” man, then this is a recipe for guaranteed failure in the overwhelming most of cases. Probably, the media has told them who is “perfect-looking”? For all of human history, it’s been MEN who select their mate largely on looks and that is a very slippery slope as many men have discovered. Many men are hurt and bitter this morning because they made a disastrous mistake in selecting primarily on that basis. Why would bw want to repeat this mistake?

    Those “hot” and “gorgeous” men and women (however they’re defined) represent a tiny portion of any population anyway, so to have millions of men and women trying to chase down one of them is, as I said, really laughable and totally sad.

    This is why I will always seek out only like-minded people who are not magical thinkers. SMH

    Carry on, Neecy. You’re doing a great job here!

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    • Neecy
      Oct 12, 2012 @ 20:39:30

      Yes Eva I have had the experiences with BW who have made such great demands on what their man must look like and when I look at them I am scratching my head as to what makes them think they should be so deserving of the perfect looking mate when they are not perfect looking. Its pretty funny and sad at the same time.

      Juts take a look at how some Black women will put down another Black woman’s Non Black partner by saying “he aint all that” in the looks dept. yet these women look like bowling balls and are not desirable to any halfway sane man. LOL

      People (not just Black owmen) have become so extremely shallow these days.

      Lets not get me wrong, everyone including women want attractive mates and should not settle for someone they are not physically attracted to. Alll I am saying is that make sure your standards are in tune with what you are bringing to the table. This doesn’t seem to be the case all the time and that is why people become so deluded.

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    • palefloret
      Dec 12, 2016 @ 22:18:13

      Neecy is telling the truth. Just look at this https://www.facebook.com/barbie.james.963/posts/560054884199959

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  32. Robynne
    Oct 12, 2012 @ 19:09:21

    Hello Neecy!

    I’m glad to see you again in cyberspace 🙂 .

    My thoughts: I fully agree with you on a number of points. As you and a number of commenters have pointed out, obviously some bw have been twisting the message of bwe. They seem to think that IRR’s will save them from “blackistan.” No. That will a change in your thinking and your mentality; that will free you from your mental bounds to dysfunctional thinking. Otherwise, you will be used by predators of another race, because the lack of self worth and self esteem will manifest itself, leaving you open to abusive people of all stripes and genders. Given that many women in this situation also obviously do not have any boundaries in interpersonal relationships with others, they obviously do not know how to vet; maintaining boundaries is a key factor in how one interacts with other people in this world.

    Other thoughts – you’ve made the point that many bwe sites do not really address the pitfalls of IR dating. You’ve also made the point that many bw hear very negative messages regarding even the thought of entering a relationship with a man who is not a bm; this is obviously why many sites do not focus on that aspect.

    I believe that each bw’s success depends on her – her attitude, her carriage, how much effort she puts into HERSELF and into the dating arena (and I don’t mean jumping through hoops and twisting herself into a pretzel for non-bm dbr’s).
    Well, as it has already been explained above, a bw – or any person for that matter – cannot look to look to someone to “save” them. No sane person is looking to take on someone else’s emotional baggage. This also ties to the point made on other bwe blogs regarding bw disclosing to the universe very personal and painful information. This is not a healthy way to resolve these emotional issues. This is the part where the bw seeks professional help from a trained therapist, as they are trained and licensed in methods to help others get over severe emotional and/or self esteem issues. Everyone has issues, but some are more debilitating than others, and do require professional intervention. It’s not healthy to look to others to be your saviour; nobody wants that burden. A person must fix themselves first. Then, after addressing any debilitating emotional issues, a woman should them position herself in the dating pool – using all the resources at her fingertips. This includes joining clubs, engaging in recreational activities that will allow her to meet other people. including eligible men, as well as online dating. With regards to meeting a marriageable man, I employed all the dating strategies above in order to meet my husband. I ended up meeting him online, and within two years we were married. You must look your best and feel your best. Confidence is attractive. Negativity, doubtfulness, desperation and self pity are not attractive traits; they tend to repulse people who are relatively well adjusted emotionally (but these negative traits sure as hell will attract leeches and users! People with low self esteem are easily manipulated emotionally – because they don’t have the boundaries in place deter the abusers).
    The key is to work on you and get yourself together – and you’ve also made this point crystal clear.

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    • Neecy
      Oct 12, 2012 @ 21:28:57

      HEY ROBYNEE! I am so glad you made such a well grounded post. it truly hits the nail on the head of what I believe and trying to get across. And Congrats on your marriage and meeting your BOO! 😀

      Given that many women in this situation also obviously do not have any boundaries in interpersonal relationships with others, they obviously do not know how to vet; maintaining boundaries is a key factor in how one interacts with other people in this world.

      EXACTLY.

      I want to address this point b/c it’s truly key. I think some BW haven’t realized the importance of vetting. My belief is that men are adaptable in the mating arena based on what women are willing to put up with. IOW’s if women’s standards are low, men will not bring much to the table. If women’s standards are high in what they expect from a man, men will come with those for the most part. That is b/c women control the sexual market place and men adjust accordingly.

      IMO if you want BETTER men you need to be a better woman that DEMANDS better for herself. In order to be a better woman you have to truly love yourself and your self-esteem needs to be in pretty good shape. Because these days many women have extreme low self-esteem and insecurities they put up with all kinds of crap from men, thus creating a surplus of bad men in the mating arena. This is what has happened in the Black community for the most part.

      Black women have spent decades helping to create Black male monsters who in turn have treated them poorly as women. Black women have spent decades catering to a group of men exclusively (many damaged as well) while placing her own needs on the back burner, and cannot think for once that simply going to another group without first changing your mentality, how you see yourself as a woman isn’t going to have an effect on the kinds of men you attract from other races. You’ll run into the same kinds of damaged men just with different colored eyes and skin and hair.

      Many BW have been sent damaging messages about her value and self-worth for AGES from BM and the community. You don’t just overcome that by simply dating other races. WHY? Because in many cases BW will also receive that same message overall b/c that is the society we live in for the most part – where anything closest to the beauty ideal will always receive favoritism in the mating arena and anything furthest may have to see that it takes a special kind of MAN to appreciate a Black woman. Seriously. A man who has his own mind, a man willing to go against the status quo, a man willing to stand by his choices in face of having others question it.

      This is why it’s imperative for BW to understand that FIRST you understand your worth as a woman before even trying to venture out there in IR land, b/c it *CAN* be HARSH and filled with a lot of rejection (i.e. what many are seeing online dating sites) since we still live in a society (America) where Black womanhood is still not yet appreciated on a grander scale.

      This means it is going to take BW with a strong sense of self and a high sense of self worth bc there are men out there who will see your value as a woman and not simply being BLACK, but you will never get those men if you are damaged, have low self worth and/or are desperate and looking for a savior.

      Black women can and will be able to find well adjusted great partners of various races ONLY when we embrace and love ourselves and not seeking other races of men to save or rescue us.

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    • Neecy
      Oct 12, 2012 @ 21:31:32

      You must look your best and feel your best. Confidence is attractive. Negativity, doubtfulness, desperation and self pity are not attractive traits; they tend to repulse people who are relatively well adjusted emotionally (but these negative traits sure as hell will attract leeches and users! People with low self esteem are easily manipulated emotionally – because they don’t have the boundaries in place deter the abusers).

      ABBBBSOLUUUTELY!!!

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  33. Robynne
    Oct 12, 2012 @ 19:10:37

    *that will require a change in …
    Ugh. Typos…

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  34. Jalilimaster
    Oct 13, 2012 @ 23:39:30

    Neecy, I completely agree with the points you made. Proof of it is in the fact that nowadays, many of the letters to BWE bloggers from bw who started dating ir, are similar to the complaints they had with bm. They are still dating men of similar low quality. These women haven’t particularly changed their outlook on life. Hence, the reason why there is always still so much resistance to any suggestion that they need to make internal improvements. Empowerment cannot happen without the change in mindset. Many of them just carry their damaged thinking and behaviour from one location to another.

    P.S: I am amused that the poster is still angry about my comments from ANOTHER site from months ago. When I used the word ‘average’, I was referring only to looks. It seems that some of the women there were offended that I burst their bubble of dreaming and fantasising that some 6’3, man with washboard abs and model good looks, and $billions in his bank account was going to drop from the sky and whisk them away. Most men, regardless of intellect, character, morals etc, are of average looks. The same applies to women. Y’all need to stop foaming at the mouth and get over it. Very few men fall into the ‘hot’ category. Of these men, most of them end up with ‘hot’ women. However, it says nothing about the quality of their relationship. Most stable, succesful marriages are between average looking men & women. If you are going to turn down a man who is intelligent, of good character and quality, a good provider etc, because he looks like any other average looking guy on the street and not like he just stepped out of a GQ magazine photoshoot, by all means do so. You are going to be waiting for a looooong time. And make sure that you atleast measure up to the standards that u set for your potentail partner! After all, it’s only fair!

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    • Neecy
      Oct 14, 2012 @ 21:36:58

      HI JALILIMASTER!

      yes after I read your post it was clear to me that you were not trying ot put down BW or make them feel they had to “settle”. maybe in some BW’s minds “settling” is with a man that is not perfect looking and super rich? *shrugs* yes everyone wants an attractive mate. But if you stick with those who are close to or the same as your attractiveness level, usually this works out best b/c no one feel they have the upper hand and the other person is not worshiping the other person. I feel the most stable and best relationships are with people who are on the same level or close looks wise.

      Once you start trying to date someone waaay above your aesthetic level it creates a great amount of tension in the relationship. As you and Evia also stated most people are average. So trying to go after a small percentage of the population means you better be pretty above average yourself.

      I find masculinity attractive. A man doesn’t have to be a GOD to be masculine. A masculine man is a man who is responsible, well balanced emotionally, willing and able to provide and support his woman, someone who is not a push over, etc. those are the qualities women should be looking for FIRST in a man.

      RE: The BW running into the same damaged men of other races. YEP. happens quite often b/c I think a lot of BW believe that if you change the race, everything will change and work in her favor. But humans are humans and men are men. While yes, culturally WHite or Non Black men tend to have different traits than BM (like being family oriented, believing in family, protecting women in thier lives and children they create, being the backbone of thier communities, being a lot more responsible as men) there are still losers in every race.

      Women pick the men they are with. If a woman allows a jerk into her life its SHE who has the problem and needs to do some self reflecting. A man cannot force his way into a woman’s life and space -s he has to LET HIM IN.

      I feel a lot of BW need to really adjust the way they think about themselves, men and relationships before they can even think about finding a well balanced quality man of another race.

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  35. neurochick
    Oct 14, 2012 @ 14:26:04

    Neecy:

    Wonderful discussion. I totally agree with you. It’s important for bw and all women to have boundaries and vet, vet, vet. Whenever I found myself in a bad relationship situation it was mainly because I did not vet the men, or apply boundaries.

    Many women of all races, want to be swept off their feet by handsome, wealthy men. Not going to happen. Here’s why. Most intelligent, healthy men who have something going for them have healthy boundaries. That means they are not predators. If they are interested in a woman they will stand back and observe her (and that’s what a smart woman will do as well), make sure that she’s sane, that she doesn’t have a trunk load of issues that she’s carrying around with her. Now, some women don’t like that, they think the man isn’t interested in her; they want a man to ACT. But, remember one thing, predators act. Predators don’t have boundaries. They are the men who’ll just come up to you, complement you and attempt to sweep you off your feet right then and there, and the woman thinks that she’s got it made. Not likely.

    Now, I’m NOT talking about ALL men, all men are not alike, I’m just saying that healthy, sane people take their time, they don’t feel they have to have you RIGHT NOW. Always watch out for men who want you RIGHT NOW. Many of these men are predators and and know that an insecure woman, who’s desperate for attention will be easy pickings for them.

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    • Neecy
      Oct 14, 2012 @ 21:53:26

      HEY NEUROCHIOCK!!!

      AWWWWWWSOME POST!! I think this needs to be a dang on poster!

      Trust me, as someone who visits GAME blog and PUA logs, I am clearly aware that a lot of these men have that mentality. And guess what? They admit this is the mentality that the average man needs to have to get what they want from attractive women who are clueless or have issues! They are out HUNTING their prey to get what they want (usually sex and short term flings with attractive women).

      if women are going to fall for it, then it’s the woman who got herself into that situation. Heck even some of the PUA’s say that the ONUS is not on them to “protect” the best interest of a woman – that it’s a woman that has to protect herself from them. I agree. If more women were patient and maintained a higher sense of self-worth, there would be very little predators. Because men adapt to the sexual market place based on how women REWARD them. A lot of women today reward men very quickly for stuff b/c they give them validation very early on and the woman feels she is “special”.

      A healthy well balanced man that has A LOT going for himself would not risk his reputation or sanity in dealing with emotionally unblanaced women no matter how good looking she is on the outside. Predators only want to partake of what they see on the outside, so the inside doesn’t matter. She could be batshit crazy and that wouldn’t matter to them as long as they are getting from her physically what they want. No sane man wants to deal with a batshit crazy chick even if she is HOT.

      we live in a society where everything needs to be FAST, NOW. Even in the mating arena. that is why so many people sleep with strangers so quickly. instead of just allowing sexual tension to build the natural way, getting to know the person and finding the things and qualities about them that make them attractive to you, and having them make some sort of commitment before even going there, people just hop in the bed and then it’s done. It ends up working against women the most b/c women are not emotionally built as men are.

      So many women today are not emotionally well balanced. But they feel b/c they may be physically attractive and b/c a lot of men approach them, that they have it made. When as you pointed out, no emotionally healthy male wants to be with a woman who has baggage, is insecure, has self-esteem issues needs constant validation on the superficial things she carries.

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  36. Evia
    Oct 15, 2012 @ 06:34:05

    Neecy, I’ve stepped back in to address a few comments here.

    Black women have spent decades helping to create Black male monsters who in turn have treated them poorly as women. Black women have spent decades catering to a group of men exclusively (many damaged as well) while placing her own needs on the back burner,

    Yes, hindsight is 20-20. Yes, bw have inadvertently created many of these narcissistic bm monsters, but let’s look at WHY they did it and why it continues. It’s BECAUSE the overwhelming most of black girls are raised or indoctrinated from the cradle to overlook, excuse, defend, explain, etc. the shortcomings of black males/men and to defend him from de evil wm and ANYONE else (including bw) who dare point out that a very large portion of AA men are not worth bothering with as mates. There are a few nuances involved but many black girls and bw are still indoctrinated to bolster the bm’s ego at all costs, even if it means to sacrifice herself in the process. When she mentions this, she is often told that something is wrong with her.

    So, bw are not demented females who just loved creating self-serving, damaged bm monsters. LOL! They created them because there is STILL an incredible amount of gag pressure on these women to keep them quiet, to blind them into not seeing.

    Don’t believe me? I invite anyone (of any group) to test this by making a less than positive but candid comment about AA males/men in a gathering of AAs and right away, the claws come out from all directions. LOL!

    A few years ago, I made the mistake of saying among a group of AAs that I think that something horrible should happen to every bm drug dealer who is selling drugs to the children in their neighborhood. I also pointed out that no bw should date an ex-con. The other black folks thought I was the monster. LOL! They began right away defending the bm drug dealers and accused me of being brainwashed!!!!! They pointed out to me that these bm have to do something to make money–even if it means selling poison to black children!!!!!

    And let’s face it, IF most upwardly mobile AA women were to really vet typical AA men the way I personally vet men, there would only be a very tiny portion of bw with an AA man. It’s way past time to be brutally honest about this and not blame AA women exclusively or even mostly for this abysmal situation unless we’re saying that the bulk of AA girls and women should just tell the black community in general to kiss their posterior.

    Again: most AA women, for sure, are STILL maneuvered to bolster the fragile ego of ‘de po bm’. I’ve noticed lately offline that virtually all AA women who I chat with will become guarded and careful with their words when the topic of AA men comes up. They’re reluctant to go against the status quo of bm protection, but I think that some have begun to see that something is very wrong with that status quo–since they’re not getting reciprocity, at all, and the community is in chaos.

    In general, these women simply lack awareness of what they’re creating and/or don’t feel they have any choice in the matter and/or lack courage to go against the status quo.

    I advocate vetting ALL men the same. I’m an average looking woman who will always believe that I can attract a high quality man and I’ve done that to my satisfaction. So, it doesn’t matter to me whether anyone on the outside thinks that the men in my life are not gorgeous or hot because I’m on the inside of that relationship and I know that it’s the QLL traits of a man that will help me to create a “living well” life.

    I still think Online dating is a good place but should not be the MAIN place where BW expect to find partners. Its going to take a lot more effort in the sense that BW have to learn how to get out and mingle with others face to face.

    I agree. Over the years, I’ve gotten many notes from bw who’ve found their husbands via the online dating route, but no ONE route should be the only route. Online dating sites have become flooded with all kinds of low-level people. So, the disappointment they’re experiencing is coming from their high level of expectation, not from the lack of effectiveness of the route. There are still some QLL men there. I’m going to a wedding on the 27th of a bw who met her attorney husband online. They’re in their 50s, dated for 1-1/2 years and are very compatible.

    People (not just Black owmen) have become so extremely shallow these days.

    But this is an excellent window of opportunity for bw! They need to work on themselves to become less shallow and they will be able to rake in many QLL men that other women are overlooking.

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    • Neecy
      Oct 17, 2012 @ 14:35:26

      HEY EVIA!

      Yes I always seek to make sure that point out the *REASON* why AA women are constantly placing BM on a pedestal – its because of severe indoctrination starting from birth. You remember that old saying “The Black man is an endangered species” crapola the BC used to spew. Well a lot of BW are hit over the head with this since childhood and ultimately by default they will grow into their adult years still defending everything a BM does even if its against the best interests of herself as a BW and Black women in general.

      I’m not sure most BW are even ready to try to think any other way b/c its more scary to them to venture into the unknown than stay where they are *comfy and know what to expect.

      I believe almost all BW know the deal but many are unwilling to step away b/c they seem to feel that dealing with BM and the BC is the lesser of evils of dealing with WHites or assimilating themselves into society where, yes, they will experience some racism and some pushback, but not the majority of the time. SO they’d rather stay and deal with the “lesser” of two evils in their own mind.

      What they fail to realize is when you EXPAND yourself and your options, you expand the probability of increasing your odds at finding more sane and emotionally together men and people than limiting yourself to a DYSFUNCTIONAL subset of society (the BC community) which is virtually destroying your womanhood culturally.

      If the BC protected BW and chidden, held the men accountable and basically wasn’t dysfnunctional, I could understand BW wanting to stick around. But the writing is on the awl. many BW simply have to overcome the “lesser of two evils” idea and fears and simply expand themselves and their mindsets or they will never really experience what life has to offer.

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  37. neurochick
    Oct 15, 2012 @ 07:48:41

    I also want to point out that looks aren’t everything. I too have heard many bw say that they want a good man, BUT he has to be FINE.

    And what is fine anyway? I mean a lot of men who are in the public eye are rather average, including a lot of actors on TV.

    I think some bw have this weird image of what the “perfect man” is supposed to look like, but the truth is that ALL looks fade and change, so if you marry for looks, then what will happen when those looks go?

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    • KingsDaughter
      Oct 15, 2012 @ 09:06:17

      Escapist tendencies, too much TV/movies and romance novels will do that. Folks start to create their own little fantasy world. So they conjure up this image of a good looking Men’s Health cover type guy who’s sensitive but can easily defend your honour, has the IQ of a nobel prize winning scientist, is really into black women, is a mean cook, understands good etiquette and so on and so forth. It’s all about fantasy. It may be hard to admit but sometimes women a dreaming of a TROPHY that they can show off, like “SEE what / got!”

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    • Neecy
      Oct 17, 2012 @ 14:45:24

      Neurochik,

      EXACTLY! Let’s be real. Every human being wants an attractive mate and someone that gets their goat. But once you start being unrealistic about what you should get and what you want then there is a problem – especially when its cutting into why you cannot find decent men/women or relationships.

      Its fine and perfectly normal have this fantasy or ideal person in their head and usually they are fine or gorgeous in some manner. Like for me? Chris Evans, Jason momoa, Joel Kinnaman, the list goes on LOL.

      but then *REALITY* kicks in and we all realize that most people are not simply drop dead HOT and that most often times we will end up with someone who is similar to us aesthetically. And there is *NOTHING* wrong with that! In fact its probably the most healthiest set up there is b/c frankly I feel when people are too far apart aesthetically, it creates so many problems.

      Now that is completely different from seeking out a high quality partner that is bringing other important things to the table besides looks – i.,e emotional stability (especially in this day and age where a lot of people are simply batshit lol), good values, one who’d make a great parent (if kids are desirable to them), etc.

      I know waay too many women who expect a drop dead model who is over 6 feet tall and yet I don’t see what’s so special about them (looks wise) to demand such superficial qualities. Men are very guilty of this too, but for them the way society has set it up, they exchange their superficial desires of wanting the best looking woman, by having to bring other things to the table to acquire these kinds of women (MONEY, STATUS). These men know often times they are only able to acquire these very beautiful or hot women simply because of status and money or what he *has* an not for who he is as a person. SO its still a trade off that IMO is not really what relationships should be about, but if they like it then I love it as my grandmother would say.

      I feel the best looking man or woman is one who exudes their masculine or feminine traits and is stable. There are outside things that an average person can do to bump their attractiveness level up a notch or two – the way they dress and carry themselves. So one does not have to be naturally gorgeous or HOT to be attractive. But some people just want people who are born hot and who everyone else wants. I wish them the best! LOL

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  38. jillodelight
    Oct 17, 2012 @ 11:16:13

    “I think the same applies to White men. Its common knowledge to most that White men place White women on a pedestal the same way Black women do to Black men. So both Black women and White men don’t feel each stands a chance with the other. It’s a case of Black women thinking most White men aren’t interested in them and White men feeling most Black women aren’t interested in them either. LOL”

    “Black women will always keep assuming WM are not interested or attracted if White men are not typically approaching showing romantic interest, and White men are least likely to approach women they feel may not be receptive to them.”

    Hi Neecy! You made the points on the Black women online dating post, that I wish more BWE sites would acknowledge. It seems like ALL folks are focused on pointing out what BW are doing wrong and how the NBABM crew makes it look like ALL BW are uninterested. No one ever talks about the “Anything close to a WW” crew that makes up the majority of non-BM, and how they’re exactly like the NBABM crew. I’ve read and heard offline, non-BM say atrocious things about BW that’s on a par with any NBABM BW. I’ve seen a lot of BWE sites discuss how NBABM behavior causes non-BM to “go back” and then blame BW solely for not being receptive. No one even thinks that some non-BM are easily rattled (not IRR material), were only kinda attracted to BW and wanted to something more familiar in the long run. No one brings up these possibilities, it always seems to go back to “If only BW smiled more”. All this accomplishes is turning BW interested in IRR into chronic worriers. Chronic worry robs women of their femininity because she’s constantly double checking herself, insecure and imagining the worse in others. That just makes her look unattractive and desperate (eventually frustrated and angry). BW REALLY need to learn to take it easy on themselves, be more gentle with themselves. I think BW/WM need to accept, once and for all, that we can’t control the actions of the majority in our group and let it go. We have no choice but to roll with the punches if we really want a relationship with one another. More importantly though, I think more BW should practice complete self focus :focusing on their passions and what kind of woman they want to be FOR THEMSELVES. I think more BW need help seeing themselves as individual people: we get STUCK analyzing and seeing ourselves through the culture we grew up in and men and it’s not working obviously. I guess my point was we need to stop believing we’re responsible for EVERYTHING and can control everything and everyone.

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    • Neecy
      Oct 17, 2012 @ 15:42:57

      JILL

      THANK YOU FOR THIS POST! And I am going to APOLOGIZE ahead of time for my lengthy response (as if its a first lol).

      I think it needs to be reiterated over and over again. You are very on point and that is EXACTLY what i was trying to get at in this post. That BW just need to understand sometimes that its not always about what you are and aren’t doing – sometimes its simply ABOUT the men and this society we live in where anything and everything who fits closest to the White ideal is going to be the “prize” in most men’s eyes. SOmetimes the hard truth and reality is that in American society especially, many times BW will simply be off the radar of the average JOE b/c this society spends trillions of marketing and centuries promoting “ideal” beauty and it has never been geared in the BW’s favor.

      Add in the BW clowns who are all more than happy to act a fool in public and denounce everything womanly and feminine about them and its simply boils down to the fact that if a White man or NOn Black man has an interest in a particular BW he will pursue her and let all the stereotypes fall by the wayside and simply judge her based on her individual actions and demeanor.

      But if a Non BM doesn’t pursue a BW for whatever reason, Does that mean BW are the problem? Does this mean BW should try to stop being Black? Does that mean that BW really aren’t just as beautiful and *worthy*? NO! It means that its THEIR issues, preferences and in some cases PROBLEMS and not ours!

      And you are right, anytime women are constantly told that “its them” that is the problem and they just have “to do more” it robs a woman of her femininity in that she spends more time concerning herself with pleasing others and turning herself into a pretzel for everyone else (yet still coming up short) instead of first pleasing herself or rather being SATISFIED with herself and understanding she is *NOT* always the problem, that sometimes doing more is never going to be enough, and that with patience and she can find a quality man that she will not have to do all of that for – a man who will see her for all that she is and want that.

      Also, it robs Black women of her femininity in the sense that it has taken the onus off of men to be MEN and to seek out and go after what they want. If a WHite guy is too shy or uncertain about himself or the possible rejection that may come with approaching an attractive BW he sees and he avoids it altogether – THEN THERE IS NOTHING MORE A BW CAN DO! If a WHite or Non BM simply does not have a desire to pursue Black women b/c in his mind he prefers someone who fits closer to the beauty ideals in society or simply wants to date his own race – THEN THERE IS NOTHING A BW CAN DO! If a Non BM is not going to pursue BW because he overheard some BW say they aren’t interested in anything but a BM, then THERE IS NOTHING A BW CAN DO!

      I feel sometimes the way some BWE go on about all BW have to do to get *noticed* by NOn BM it makes BW seem as if WE aren’t special or that we aren’t actually the prize and that the *MEN* are the prize! Why should a BW feel she is not *good* enough and is not doing *enough* to get men to approach and notice and literally have a conversation with her? Especially if she is giving the subtle communication hints that most women simply need to do to invite a man to come up to her and say something? BW aren’t always the problem. Sometimes its just as simple as recognizing that the *AVERAGE* Non Black man is more concerned with approaching and catching the attentions and affections of women of their own race and not Black women. Period.

      As you said, Black women are best simply spending most of their energy bettering their lives and selves as individuals and doing things they enjoy and simply just living and enjoying life. Once you do that, everything else falls into place. The men will COME TO YOU. You won’t have to search them out. When you are too focused on getting “the prize” sometimes you can drive yourself to the brink of insanity b/c you cannot change others, just YOURSELF.

      This is the first time in history that American BW have had the GUTS to finally step out of the Black community MATRIX and live life for ourselves without permission from the SOUL PATROL. This time should not be spent going backwards or staying stagnant by doing the same isht with a different group of men. BW have to understand that we as women (the sane and normal ones lol) have something to bring to the table and offer to the world. While most or many American men may or may not see this – its not our problem. We can only be the best we can be and attract those men who accept us and SEE US for who we are as individuals.

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      • Robynne
        Oct 17, 2012 @ 17:59:29

        “We can only be the best we can be and attract those men who accept us and SEE US for who we are as individuals.”

        You could have boiled down this entire entry to this one line, lol.

        On a serious note, that is the key. That, and interacting with the men in your target group as individuals is a start. The non-bigoted guys will see you for you. Most of my good gfs stateside have dated and married American wm. This is in part due to the fact that engaged in a variety of activities that put them in contact with these guys. One of them absolutely loves to run, and so she has a team of folks that she goes running with. Second of all, she attends a church that is mostly non-black, with a fair amount of people in her age group. This church also hosts singles ministries and the like. The last guy who dated her was from her church. For religious women, this is also a good way to meet an eligible man.

        But anyway, cultivating interests and hobbies is a good way to meet some interesting men with whom you might make a romantic connection. Not only does this make you a more interesting person, these sorts of settings also tends to dispel foolish stereotypes and myths anyway, because then you and the people you interact with see each other as people, instead of viewing each other through the lens of preconceived notions.

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        • Neecy
          Oct 17, 2012 @ 18:23:52

          You could have boiled down this entire entry to this one line, lol.

          LOL Now Robyne why do that when we all know I have to write a novel EVERY post and response I make. Brevity is not one of my virtues! LOL

          Anyway,

          You bring up an excellent point. Many Black women who are simply doing things that would take her out of the “stereotypical” BC kind of BW (the ones who only do “all things Black” or attend “all things Black”) Will definitely surround her with other Non BM with like interests. And yes for religious BW who are open to dating IR, attending a mixed church is a great way to find men on the same level spiritually.

          I believe a lot of people do notice that BW generally isolate themselves culturally and socially on a grander scale here in America. So the ones who don’t tend to stand out, b/c not a lot of BW are comfortable with attending places, events and things where the Soul Patrol and tons of BM and/or Black people are not present. This is a really good way for PRO IR to distinguish themselves and create some good possibilities.

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  39. Louiza
    Oct 17, 2012 @ 13:35:56

    I have to say that I appreciate you discussing the other side of this. A lot of times I would comment on doing what all of the IRR blogs were encouraging black women to do, and still coming up short in the dating category when it comes to non-bm. The response I got was largely repeating the same mantra of go out more, make more friends from different races, smile more, lol. It was enough to drive me up the wall. I have made the personal decision that I will move abroad. I do not care to spend the rest of my adult life and prime years trying to figure my way around the dating behaviors of non-bm who may or may not be interested in dating a black woman. I am not being arrogant, but i am one of the bw that fall into the above average category with appearance and I am not getting anything but non-bm that stare at me and avert their eyes when I try to make eye contact. I have never had this issue with non-American non-bm. I think I have learned this lesson enough to make that move across the pond.

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  40. Neecy
    Oct 17, 2012 @ 16:05:54

    LOUIZA!!

    Girl I have to commend you! And I am completely on board with what you are doing by moving abroad. I have heard that BW who leave America just to visit abroad experience a whole different level of appreciation by men in those countries compared to how we are received in America.

    believe me, if I were much younger I would totally do what you are doing – moving abroad to find a Non Black mate. Not that i am OLD (late 30’s) but I still plan on traveling abroad just to experience what its like as a BW in other countries. I actually have told younger ideal marriage aged BW to expand their horizons across the pond to non BM of other countries b/c they seem to not have the same racial baggage against BW that so many Non BM (even BM) In America do.

    Plus America is still very westernized in its beauty ideals. So even the most AVERAGE or below Average of Non BW will be seen as a prize over the most well put together highly attractive BW! We see it everyday in the media and I see it in real life and have even experienced it myself.

    Its not simply about being beautiful or looking the best and sometimes even being the most sane and emotionally well balanced. There is a heavy promotion of even the most average of WHite and Non BW being touted as a prize. So its going to be a difficult terrain in America for BW to simply jump into the IR arena and expect great results off the bat. It will take awhile before we see any real numbers of BW/NOn BM relationships growing b/c there is still so many pre-cnceived notions and racial baggage between the two groups for it to happen overnight.

    Now I am not saying BW cannot find love and relationships with NOn BM here on American soil. I have met some great Non BM but its not in the numbers one would expect. Like you, a lot of times you can give all of the hints and clues and they still won;t bite b/c they are too afraid of the possibility of being rejected.

    But its simply not going to be *AS* easy as some BWE and IR forums make it out to be. And that is why I sense so many BW are frustrated b/c they did all they could do with no real success. And if you are a BW approaching ages that are much more difficult to find partners for marriage, your best best is to at LEAST travel abroad and see what you can find there before you age yourself out of the game trying to simply put all your eggs (lol pun intended) in the American male basket.

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  41. Trackback: The Prospect of Dating Interracial Online | Online Dating Profile
  42. jillodelight
    Oct 18, 2012 @ 12:43:49

    “Plus America is still very westernized in its beauty ideals. So even the most AVERAGE or below Average of Non BW will be seen as a prize over the most well put together highly attractive BW! We see it everyday in the media and I see it in real life and have even experienced it myself. Its not simply about being beautiful or looking the best and sometimes even being the most sane and emotionally well balanced. There is a heavy promotion of even the most average of White and Non BW being touted as a prize.”

    This behavior is distinctly Western: it seems like beauty, when applied to non-BW, has gotten so warped and distorted in Western countries. ALL non-BW are beautiful! lol It’s taboo to speak candidly about a WW’s looks especially. Plain, average or unattractive WW (Maggie Gyllenhaal,Sarah Jessica,Julia Roberts, Anne Hathaway, Reese Witherspoon etc.) are called “unique, quirky beauties”. For a WW/non-BW, to be considered beautiful in a Western country, they simply have to have fashion sense and that’s that.

    I came across this forum discussing the Korean American actress Sandra Oh. Many said she was beautiful of course: the phrases “unique beauty” and “quirky” were thrown around a lot lol. Most said she was plain (I agree), she dresses well and takes care of her body, what else do you want? A LOT of Asians flat out said she was ugly. There was pretty nasty argument between some Korean’s, Chinese, and Japanese: each thought “their” women looked the best! lol (there goes that famous xenophobia). The best comment though, by a Korean, was that American’s in general are naive to Asians being hot or not. There’s this idea that if your not a WW you can at least be “exotic” type of WW. In Hollywood where there’s so few Asians in general, there’s no one to compare her too but you throw her in the Asian film industry, well then nuff said lol (Watch an average K-drama and you’ll get it). This really made me think: a lot people are drinking the kool aid about AW being superior but I think a lot AW are just taking advantage of the fact that Westernized countries are naive to Asian beauty standards in general. A LOT plain,average AW are using their exotic female card with non-AM. I don’t even HAVE to say WW/non-BW take advantage of the “I’m a WW/exotic” card among non-WM lol!

    I don’t think BW should lament not fitting into a beauty standard created by people who have their own baggage (racial or otherwise), motives, and insecurities. Beauty has become so warped, it’s become irrelevant in this country. I think it’s about time more BW bow out of this game like Louiza is (in whatever way they can). I want to actually enjoy my own femininity and beauty: it seems insane to keep playing a rigged game!
    I’m saving up for this
    http://www.blackgirltravel.com/pages/home.html

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  43. Bishop The Eastside Nappyhead
    Nov 11, 2012 @ 14:22:12

    I am a little late to the post, but better late than never. This is something I can and often do talk about quite frequently. Now I am all for woman empowerment, I support feminism and blogs that promote such as long as it doesnt turn into man bashing . But it irks me when I see black woman run to white men for foolish reasons. Most times what I see is that some black women make an unequal shift when searching for their white mate. Don’t go from a black drug dealer to a white lawyer and think that you have found the great white answer to your problems, it doesn’t add up. I spent 2011 living in Panama, teaching English and forming a musical group with local Black Panamanians. It was a great experience, i learned spanish and really upped my worth. But I was amazed at just how lost all the black women were. I mean the Spaniard lave master did a bang up job instilling self hatred into these women.

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    • Neecy
      Nov 20, 2012 @ 16:04:16

      Bishop,

      Honestly, BLACK MEN are more guilty of lowering their standards when it comes to dating out than Black women are. IN FACT, studies show that most BW/WM couplings are of the same level and usually are of middle to upper class, while BM/WW tend to be where the male is of a higher status and the woman is lower. It is Black men who will be more than happy to date questionable White women just for the sake of having a White woman.

      So I think its a bit unfair for you to place that burden onto Black women. Granted Black women in different countries vary, but its certainly not at the level of Blck men who have pretty much showed the world they will step over an attractive well put together sane Black woman to get any kind of White woman. Not that I care, but when it comes to trying to place blame on BW for what BM do consistently i have to speak up.

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      • Bishop The Eastside Nappyhead
        Nov 21, 2012 @ 17:23:04

        im not excusing black men…at all, I’m merely speaking from a personal viewpoint. My feeling when I see a black woman walking with her white knight and cuts her eye to look at me like I’m a piece of shit. Even if Im not really attracted to the woman its a personal rage I feel, I’m just sharing it Neecy. Am I not allowed to have an outlet for my personal feeling? Im sorry it had to be your blog, I just stumbled upon it and wanted to voice my opinion, its def different in other countries, i don’t know too many black men who are trying to impregnate whit women so they can better the black race on some 3rd reich type shit. Thats what happens out there and it makes me wanna vomit, its one thing to give statistics, but I work off of real human accounts and feelings. Is that not good enough Neecy? Are my feelings not valid?

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  44. kabdog
    Dec 15, 2012 @ 02:32:38

    I have to say as a W/HM married to a BW for 12 years with two kids of our own no previous kids for either, that there are so many benefits to this type of union. This might come as a surprise but the reality of the thought process of WM and HM is not what the perception is out there in the BC. We enjoy women, we want to marry women, and we want to have kids with women, and to the overwhelming majority of us this does not mean white women. If we meet an attractive women we will snatch that up if we click. And even more important there does not exist colorism in our minds we don’t think lighter is more pretty as the BC does. On the contrary we just see being men I hate to say this but it is true we see legs or hips or but or boobs at first of course then personality and such later. Furthermore there are even a subset of us that prefer BW and if we do we usually want darker women not lighter with white features. Soooooo moral of the story even if 10 percent of WM are interested and maybe 2-5 percent of WM actively seek out IR as an option then that still means more WM and HM than there are eligible BW. One previous poster did mention previous children now that is true if we do not have baggage to bring into a relationship and previous children is a lot baggage then we expect our future spouse to not have them either many BW as a census statistic are single parents as are WW but if any women wants a quality man then they must be willing to be quality themselves want a degree in a man then have one yourself, want a middle income earner then be one too, want a loving man then be a loving woman, etc….

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    • Neecy
      Dec 17, 2012 @ 17:52:05

      I have to say as a W/HM married to a BW for 12 years with two kids of our own no previous kids for either, that there are so many benefits to this type of union.

      HI KABDOG! Thanks for you post!!

      Yes I agree. Also there is actual data that supports this as well. Data that has reported that unions between BW and WM and non BM endure loner than any other married interracial and monoracial unions! When Black women and WHite men enter into marriage these unions last much much longer than WW/BM unions and even other interracial unions (and even BW/BM) unions.

      I also tend to think because BW and WM may not hook up or get together as often as BM/WW there is a bit more quality to the relationships. I feel BW and WM are not real attention seekers in this aspect compared to WW and BM who “get off” on reactions of them coming together. Once that novelty wears off, they don’t last long b/c they did not get together for quality reasons.

      Of course this does not apply to all BM/WW unions as there are plenty that are based on love and true quality and not all BW/WM unions are of quality, but it truly speaks volumes as to what the end results TYPICALLY are when the two various unions come together.

      This might come as a surprise but the reality of the thought process of WM and HM is not what the perception is out there in the BC. We enjoy women, we want to marry women, and we want to have kids with women, and to the overwhelming majority of us this does not mean white women. If we meet an attractive women we will snatch that up if we click. And even more important there does not exist colorism in our minds we don’t think lighter is more pretty as the BC does.

      I agree and unfortunately a lot of Black women are clueless to this fact. THUS why so many pro interracial forums have come up for Black women to learn and understand this fact and reality. The struggle though is that Non Black men aren’t as diligent in showing this towards Black women on average which can send mixed messages to Black women.

      For instance, Black males are more likely to express their interest in Non Black women, thus letting Non Black women know there is an attraction. Also, Non Black women receive constant public and open reinforcement of their desirability amongst men than do Black women. Therefore, if a Non Black man is not really showing interest in a Black woman, she is more apt to assume and take it as he is not attracted to her or Black women in general.

      This is an important thing that Non Black men interested in Black women should understand and seek to close that gap in. Also, b/c traditionally it has mostly men MALES who do the pursuing.

      Black women have work to do, but so do Non Black men who are interested in us.

      On the contrary we just see being men I hate to say this but it is true we see legs or hips or but or boobs at first of course then personality and such later. Furthermore there are even a subset of us that prefer BW and if we do we usually want darker women not lighter with white features. Soooooo moral of the story even if 10 percent of WM are interested and maybe 2-5 percent of WM actively seek out IR as an option then that still means more WM and HM than there are eligible BW.

      THANK YOU! I wish so many Black women can read and UNDERSTAND this. Yet there are studies after studies of “research” that tells BW we are “so undesirable to WHite men and others” blah blah blah. This causes BW to feel this may be true and to avoid seeking rejection by simply not showing any interest in Non Black males.

      One previous poster did mention previous children now that is true if we do not have baggage to bring into a relationship and previous children is a lot baggage then we expect our future spouse to not have them either many BW as a census statistic are single parents as are WW but if any women wants a quality man then they must be willing to be quality themselves want a degree in a man then have one yourself, want a middle income earner then be one too, want a loving man then be a loving woman, etc….

      ITA! It is important for marriage minded and aged women to be selective with the men they have kids with b/c it can be somewhat of a burden when trying to date. Of course its easier if the man already has kids. But simply carelessly having kids out of wedlock is not going to help a lot of BW in the dating arena especially the Interracial dating arena. That is why there is a great push to help BW understand tat they ned to lower their OOW birth rates b/c people for the most part don’t want ready made families. It becomes even more difficult when she is trying to date interracially.

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  45. RenKiss
    Jan 16, 2013 @ 13:39:22

    Hi I’m late on the discussion and new to your blog, but I’ve been reading all the comments and just wanted to add my two cents. 🙂

    While I see the goal of BWE sites is to uplift black women, to me I just feel that IRR should be left out of the equation. Why? As a black woman who’s been dating out for nearly 8 years now, I just feel it’s something that has to happen naturally.
    Perhaps I’m just coming at this from my liberal view that it’s the 21st century, the world is becoming more global and there’s no reason to simply stick with one race of men. Besides…just because a black woman expanded her dating options, that doesn’t mean she’s empowered. As even I’ve seen stories of BW dating the same type of men they’re trying to get away from by dating out. I don’t say this to bash BWE, but it’s just how I feel.

    But simply carelessly having kids out of wedlock is not going to help a lot of BW in the dating arena especially the Interracial dating arena. That is why there is a great push to help BW understand tat they need to lower their OOW birth rates b/c people for the most part don’t want ready made families. It becomes even more difficult when she is trying to date interracially.

    The IRR focused BWE blogs I’ve read don’t address different cultural issues that may arise when dating out. When dating inrracially, you’re not just crossing racial lines, there are cultural (and possibly religious) lines you’re crossing as well. You may end up dating a man who comes from a culture where OOW births is something that’s frowned upon.

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    • Neecy
      Jan 17, 2013 @ 17:39:28

      Hi Ren!!

      While I see the goal of BWE sites is to uplift black women, to me I just feel that IRR should be left out of the equation. Why? As a black woman who’s been dating out for nearly 8 years now, I just feel it’s something that has to happen naturally.

      I COMPLEEETLY agree! I think that IRR should be discussed but I don’t think it should be the basis. Like you, I believe it has to come naturally. Sometimes being too focused on something is never a good thing. Sometimes its just best to let it happen and come naturally.

      The god things I am seeing as of late, is there are a lot of other uplifting discussions in which IRR’s are not the focus.

      I believe BW empowerment foundation should be about improving ourselves as individuals, a collective FIRST. When you do that all else falls into place.

      BW do have a lot of work to do to make things better for us in society and to improve our image. That is what I believe the foundations of BWE should be.

      And yes as I mentioned the focus is always on the good but never the real challenges.

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    • Ray
      Jan 18, 2013 @ 05:28:51

      While I agree with much of what you wrote, I have to disagree with you on IRR not empowering BW! The reason BM have so much power over black women is that BW are bombarded with the facts each day of the huge disparity (between 1-2 million) in the ratio of BW to BM! The more options a black woman has the less likely she is to tolerate abuse and disrespect from black men! Let me be emphatic about this. I am not saying that she won’t find white jackass guys, also! But, most of the white guys open to IR dating and marriage won’t be coming into the relationship with all that racist garbage! If black men know that they aren’t the only options black women have to pick from, they are more likely to see their women as desirable and valuable!

      I don’t see IR relationships coming naturally. I don’t think BW should see us as a panacea to their relationship woes! I think we are an option for more black women and help fill a void so they could possibly be in loving long term relationships. I think a lot of BW have low self esteem and are unaware that there are non-black men out here that will find them desirable and worthy of being loved! They get bombarded by black men and clueless militant black women that the white guy will never want them! A lot of black guys love the status quo: keeping black women oppressed and locked in so they can go out and chase non-black women while his baby mamas stay home, cook the food, watch the kids, clean the house and be ready for sex whenever he wants it!
      If I was a selfish, chauvinistic, misogynistic bastard, I’d probably want that, too

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  46. RenKiss
    Jan 19, 2013 @ 08:38:24

    Thanks for the warm welcome 😀

    I COMPLEEETLY agree! I think that IRR should be discussed but I don’t think it should be the basis. Like you, I believe it has to come naturally. Sometimes being too focused on something is never a good thing. Sometimes its just best to let it happen and come naturally.

    Yes. I agree with their advice about black women expanding their circle and going to places where non-black men are most likely to congregate. Then once more BW start doing that, then I feel it’s very likely that non-black men will notice BW more and gravitate towards us.

    Honestly when I first encountered BWE blogs, I was merely looking for a space specifically devoted BW who were in IRR relationships or open to them. But I wasn’t expecting it to be apart of a larger platform to empower black women. When I first started dating out, I wasn’t thinking about being empowered or trying to break away from the black community, etc. I was in college and I was just excited to be surrounded by these good looking men from different cultures. 🙂

    Not to be nitpicky here, another issue I have with BWE is the focus only on BW/WM relationships. I feel that if you’re going to create a platform that promotes IRR dating, marriage and relationships, then don’t just focus on a specific type of IRR relationship. Unfortunately because of the emphasis on BW/WM relationships, BWE has the reputation of simply telling BW to date WM. I guess this also bothers me, because I simply didn’t just date white men, I also dated other men of color. Anywho I’ll stop now. 🙂

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    • Ray
      Jan 19, 2013 @ 13:09:20

      I think the focus is on WM because we represent a larger pool of elegible men to pick from! I’m a white guy but I think black women should have no barriers to finding a mate. Asian guys, latino guys, eskimos, whatever! Just keep your options open if you don’t want to end up single and alone!

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      • 18andLegal
        Dec 24, 2013 @ 14:26:16

        @Ray,

        You may mean well but a Black woman’s worth is not entitely based on their ability to snatch a non Black male or any male at that. Black women are women too and deserve respect and love.

        I am not against interracial dating or marriage. Nothing is wrong with interracial dating or marriage but a Black woman’s worth shouldn’t be measured by her ability to snatch or attract non Black men as mates or partners.

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  47. 18andLegal
    Dec 24, 2013 @ 14:22:26

    I am new to this site. I have read several articles by you and I have been very impressed. Finally another Black woman who reads my mind. BWE is a good idea for our Black women’s empowerment but it has it’s flaws. Thus I will speak about the ups and downs of BWE and how it relates to me and many other Black women in this country.

    Black Woman Empowerment was created to uplift us Black women and make them explore their options when it came to dating. It was to help us break out of that mole as the sister soldier stereotype and provider of the Black Community. It made us realize that we are women too and that we deserve love and respect just like any other race of women not mules of the world.

    Like everything else in the world, BWE has it’s downside too. I believe that many BWE blogs and sites focus on dating interracially too much. Black women don’t need to date outside of their race to prove their worth to non Black women but to explore her options and find a mate. Like Neecy said in her post, many BWE sites also avoid the challenges and downsides of Black women dating non Black men which leads Black women to confusion and delusion.

    Overall, Neecy’s post and topic was very well written and poignant. I am impressed with her post and the content of it. She definitely spoke the truth. I wish there were more articles like this.

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  48. unicornandpops
    Oct 12, 2014 @ 10:55:41

    Oh Neecy I recommend reading interracial intersection. It’s very good blog. Beyond black and white isn’t my cup of tea, but interracial intersection will have very insightful post, i’ve benefited from. I recommend the myth section

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