EXTERMINATING the idea of PEDESTALIZATION!

Neecy Terms you’ll need to understand for this post:

1) Pedestalizer – a fool who places others before him/herslef as more valuable than thier own individual or collective best interests

2) Pedestalized / Pedestalites / Pedestalizee- The beneficiaries of the above fool who seek to take them and htire stupidity for granted

3) Pedestalization – the act of pedestalizing

4) Pedestalizing – the act of placing one on a pedestal

 

Pedestalization of people is a problem.  SERIOUS PROBLEM. You can pedestalize a thing, which can be harmless in other ways, but no one expects things to actually reciprocate the way we expect people to. Things usually perform something that benefits a person that values it.

But people?

Notice that people who are pedestalized usually never return the favor to those who place them on a pedestal? In fact, it’s like they go out of their ways to make sure they walk, run and jump all over the person/people who pedestalize them – just for shits and giggles!

Additionally, those who are pedestalized tend to be obnoxious in a variety of ways. That obnoxiousness typically & usually bothers those who don’t see them as anything really special or worthy of high value than any other person. And deep down the obnoxiousness also bothers the person/people MAKING THEM THIS WAY (i.e. the pedestalizers) but they will continue to overlook these behaviors for some sort of *false* gain. Many obnoxious traits those pedestalized carry?:

n  Entitlement

n  Lack of responsibility

n  Self-centered

n  Selfish

n  Needy

n  Insecurity

n  Constantly seeking validation

n  Constantly seeking reinforcement

They need that validation and reinforcement in order to even stay on the pedestal. And the idiotic pedestalizers are all too ready and willing to keep bestowing and extolling the virtues of their beloved pedestalites.

 It’s like some unspoken rule that once you place someone on a pedestal they  turn into annoying destructive monsters who has had a person/people place so much value into them, that they could never do any wrong. Typically pedestalized people carelessly go through life doing as they wish, other people’s feelings/needs be damned. They become overly entitles and caught up in their own false sense of *superiority* and their egos become so inflated, that it’s a very hard fall for them when other people or things refuse to feed that ego.

In *some*  ways, one has to admire a pedestalized person. They really aren’t faking anything. Everything they do is real –  and all for self.  And they tend to show a great deal of respect for those who don’t place them on a pedestal. In fact, they could actually help those who pedestalize them in that aspect by showing how to look out for yourself FIRST and FOREMOST. Unfortunately, that pedestal suddenly disappears if the pedestalizers practices the “SELF FIRST” behaviors of those they worship.

What we usually see are the people who (for whatever reasons) place a person, or similar  group of people on a pedestal usually doesn’t receive that reciprocation and rarely lack the insight or desire to demand it – instead they bitch, moan, cry and complain and most often times try to run GUILT TRIPS on the people they pedestalize to get what they seek in return for their worship. NEVER WORKS. They only look more desperate and stupid.

Whether or not the pedestalizer is looking to be pedestalized remains unknown. But from my own experiences and observations – they do! They expect those whom they worship and pedestalize to return the favor. And when this doesn’t happen, the crying game begins.

I personally have issues with pedestalizers. They often place persons and/or groups of people above them and  are usually narrowly focused people who have usually been brainwashed in some ways. But even when the veil has been lifted from their eyes, they often refuse to let go or should I say RISE from kneeling down at the altar of those they deem more valuable than even they are.

I also tend to have an issue with people or persons who don’t look out for their best interests first. Humans who don’t do this typically are the losers in life in various ways. Because they can’t see the forest for the trees. They depend on OTHERS to complete them. And those others they look to for personal or collective completion are the people they place on a pedestal.

There are a variety of reasons a person or group of people get placed on a pedestal:

n  The pedestalizer feels they need the pedestalized person/people for an overall gain they deem to be valuable

n  The pedestalizer has been BRAINWASHED to believe the pedestalized person is of higher value b/c of *WHAT* they are even if they really have not proven such

Pedestalizers also create *MONSTERS*. The problem is often time the monsters they create are the same monsters terrorizing THEM and getting on everyone else’s nerves. Yes the very people who worship that Monster are usually the unfortunate beneficiaries of horrible treatment, neglect or just simply being taken advantage of. Those who refuse to bow down at the altar of those sitting on a pedestal, are usually the ones who gain from the pedestalites. LOL

Isn’t it ironic how that works?

PEDESTALIZATION IN CULTURAL GROUPS

This is one place you often find pedestalization at the expense of almost everyone who isn’t on the pedestal – especially the pedestalizers.

Because I am most familiar with these two racial groups/cultures I will speak specifically of BLACK WOMEN and their pedestalization of BLACK MALES. And WHITE MALES and their pedesalization of WHITE FEMALES.

This has been going on since… God knows! Each group and gender has for the most part played into their roles as either the pedestalized or the pedestalizers.

Black women and White men for decades seem to have this desire to believe their better halves (Black men and White women) are some special gifts from God who complete them as a collective group and people. As a result, we have overly ENTITLED, selfish, irresponsible, destructive and SELFISH, and most of all? ANNOYING  Black males and White females.

Black women who have decided to place Black men on a pedestal expect the same in return. Despite the fact that has never happened and in fact, Black women have received disastrous results from their pedestalization of Black men, Black women continue to place great effort and focus on “winning” the Black male over by all means necessary. This includes:

n  Putting up with abandonment and their lack of desire to help raise and provide for the children Black men create with Black women

n  CONSTANTLY Making excuses for their deplorable behaviors

n  Continuing to deal with damaged Black men who only have their own best interests at heart

n  Public and private open humiliation of Black women verbally and physically

n  Open praise of other races of women and open public discussing and disrespect of Black women and their “downfalls” *COMPARED* to other races of women

n  Not returning that same “love” and desire to make things work as a collective in their communities

I can go on. As a result, you have a culture/race full of scorned, damaged, hurt and CONFUSED women who are at a loss on what to do next now that the shit has hit the fan. They see that the investments they have made in Black men have returned 0 profits for Black women overall. In fact the only thing the investments  Black women have made in Black men have done is increased Black men’s STOCK and DECREASED Black women’s.

Black women (whether willing to admit to it or pretend the worse is not happening before their eyes) realize  no amount of pedestalization of Black males is going to win them over and cause them to return and reciprocate what Black women expect based on the high value they have placed in Black men over themselves as Black women.

As a result Black women have adjusted and/or reacted in a number of ways:

THE ATYPICAL BLACK WOMAN WHO CONTINUES TO BELIEVE IT WILL “TURN AROUND IN THEIR FAVOR”

This is probably the majority of how Black women think. Despite the obvious shitstorm they are in with Black men, they continue to believe that “sun is gonna come in the morning”. LOL. Okay, I’m all about thinking positive and looking for positive change, but I don’t place that into other people. I place that into myself.

These Black women are so dependent on Black men to complete them at this point, they have reached (in their eyes) the point of no return. Turning back and actually gaining their self-respect and putting their energies into each other as women shows failure. That failure they see is that the value, time, energy, and investments they have put into Black males has retuned ZERO, NADA, ZILCH, GOOSE EGG on their behalf’s.  So, their  STUPIDITY  *PRIDE*  disables them from admitting they FAILED MISERABLY and should re-group and ACTUALLY, MAYBE, POSSIBLY start focusing on themselves and lifting up the collective of Black women who are in DIRE need of focus. Instead they keep pumping energy and investments into something that has died a long time ago.

Black women can actually learn a few things from the Black men they worship so. What is that? How to live your life on your own ACCORD. How to not feel like your purpose in life is to be completed by others. How to not feel guilty for doing what is BEST for yourself or for going after what YOU want, other people’s feelings be damned.

THE PROGRESSIVE NEW AGE BLACK WOMAN “TO HELL WITH EM!”

Yes “TO HELL WITH EM! ITS ALL ABOUT MOI! “ is the motto of the new age Progressive EMPOWERED Black female. This Black woman (whom I have the great pleasure of saying I AM) are the Black women who see the FOREST and not just the tree. We see the bigger picture. The writing on the wall. And as a result, we have made the decision that no other human being is more important in our lives than we are. Not out of vanity and narcissism, but out of a necessity to have the best quality lives for ourselves as possible.

And guess what? We also seek to enlighten and teach other Black women in the MATRIX the same. We don’t want to keep living well to ourselves. We actually care about ourselves and each other as Black women b/c we know that no one else is going to place Black women on a pedestal BUT US.

If you are going to place someone or a group on a pedestal, why not YOURSELF(ves)? Doesn’t that make the most sense? Because when it becomes about yourself, you will work hard to do the right things, you can’t take advantage and walk all over yourself, you won’t betray yourself. You will always seek to reciprocate to yourself and others who are in the same position, who share the same collective goals and needs.

IOW’s – WE GET IT. We newly empowered Black women are doing what we can to say “WE” are most important FIRST before any other group. And all those who are not our allies, can keep it moving. We only give love, time, investment and energy to those willing to RETURN THAT SAME FAVOR. Those who aren’t – ADIOS!

WHITE MEN and the pedestalization of  WHITE WOMEN

 “Thank God For Asian women!!!”  ~ Beta White men of the world

While White men and Black women share that same stupid philosophy of pedestalizing their racial halves, White men are dealing with somewhat different issues as a result of pedestalizing White women. Not MUCH different but somewhat different.

The form of neglect and abandonment they mainly receive is in the dating and mating arena. The majority of young White men who are of a more “BETA” nature (read: the actual men who treat women  with respect and dignity), tend to be overlooked by the very women they pedestalize.

They often go through their younger years lacking sexual fulfillment and/or relationship fulfillment with the women they want (White women). They are often socially awkward b/c of repressed masculinity out of fear of “turning off” the very women who tell them one thing (they want sensitive men who respect their space) vs. who they really give the time of day (the men who don’t always respect them or who don’t put up with their nonsense and who don’t pedestalize them).

Many White men find themselves “FRIEND ZONED” in their younger years by the women they pedestalize.  Because of the women being placed on a pedestal, that gives them many more oprions to choose from in men.

Often times these White male pedestalizers  see women of other races “inferior” to  White women and therefore stick with White women. Only recently (out of necessity) have White men started expanding their dating options to Asian women in great numbers who have taken up the slack for the White women who would otherwise ignore and have no interest in the more Beta White guys.

If not for Asian women, there would be a large host of White men who would be dateless and sexless b/c they don’t carry the traits that White women *REALLY* want, yet have told them (through feminist measures)  for decades to have,  to their own detriment.

THE FEMINIST MOVEMENT

White women created the feminist movement. And yes, I have to respect them in some ways for it b/c many races of Western women have benefited greatly from the feminist movement. Now while I do benefit from a lot of the old school feminist ideologies and also believe that  we do need  forms of feminism to ensure  women’s rights are always upheld, today’s and the last couple decades of feminism has reached all-time ridiculousness. It has crossed the line and created confusion amongst women and men on how to be WOMEN and MEN – the way GOD created us – to work TOGETHER and not against each other.

Feminism today has told women that we should want to compete with men for any and everything. Where women *should* want to do what men do, live and act like men.

The point I am making? Even while being pedestalized by their own race of men, White women are always focused on how to compete with their men as to be seen as “equal” to them.

This has created a great deal of tension between White women and White men over the last couple of decades. HUH? Tension? Why would there be any tension when the women are placed on such pedestals? AH! So what  are you saying Neecy? That placing people on pedestals doesn’t mean they are always going to react with love, respect, and a willingness to work together?

White women have fought, kicked and screamed to have White men become these sensitive, caring men who understand women’s needs and seek to always try to treat a woman like she *should* or wants to be treated – with care, compassion. To be dependable and protective over women and children. To worship and appreciate and OVERRATE even the most plain and  average of White women as beautiful.

For the most part, White men have done this. What have White men received in return? NADA! Oh wait they have received something. White women who take their loyalty for granted (the same way Black men do to Black women). White women who will date, sleep with, marry any race of males they choose without a second thought. White women who gallivant with other races of men whom they feel are more “MASCULINE” and unwilling to put up with their nonsense.

What are the results? A bunch of sexless, beta White men who have been raised to treat White women with respect being shitted on in the dating market.  And when these sexless dateless White men have all the resources they can handle, they are then often sought after by the very White women who ignored or mistreated them when they were in their prime and their most desired. Because White men generally are more family oriented (based on the men willing to marry and create decent communities for their women and children), will have a great deal of resources, White women realize that these types of White men are usually the ones they only want and need when she is much older and out of her prime years and ready to settle down.

we can gather that  b/c White men  have placed high value on WHITE WOMEN / WHITE WOMANHOOD and seeks to take care of it – they are willing to even give these White women a second chance and take up with them after they have “rode the penis caresoul for their youth” and will make them honest women and pretend they were never those “girls gone wild” floozies of the past. Ok that’s wonderful. But what have White men received in return for their willingness to do such things? A SHITLOAD of divorces!

To make a long story short, you now have masses of scorned and even damaged and hurt White males who are now seeing that their efforts, energy, INVESTMENTS in White women as a whole have garnered ZERO, NADA, ZILCH, GOOSE EGG in return for their needs, wants and desires.

As a result, you now have the more “AWARE” White men who are at the point of being bitter and angry joining PUA sites and game blogs on how to literally manipulate and lie their ways into the vaginal orifices of the very women they once treated so kindly to only get slapped in the face.

They realize that all the decades spent trying to appease White women have garnered nothing in return and now understand that the value of “WOMAHOOD” they placed in White women was and is all a big JOKE. They are discovering when all is said and done, White women are nothing special. They are women like all others who unfortunately  have taken the great treatment and the pedestal they are on – for granted, and release their issues and negative energy out on the very men who placed them there.

Are White women or Black men to fault for this? NOT.AT.ALL!!!!

Black women and White men are to blame for all of this.

THE BOTTOM LINE

STOP! Just stop with the nonsense. No human being(s) should be placed on any kinds of pedestals. Because to be human is to error. That means any and  all human beings have the ability to disappoint in some way. If you have a need to be completed, look to yourself for that completion. Stop placing value into groups of people or individual people in general. It means nothing in the grand scheme of things and only signifies issues within the very people who do the pedestalizing of others.

Often times people who pedestalize others, have created in their own pea brains, that certain things that a person possess (their race in this instance) makes them worthy of pedestalization. How STUPID IS THAT? Well I guess we can see based on how pedestalizers get treated by those they pedestalize – NOT nicely.

I think it’s very clear. People do not respect those whom worship them. Respecting and “putting up with someone b/c you need them, their resources, time and energy” are two different things altogether. Who wants to simply be kept around solely  a resource?

 Pedestalizers  get taken for granted – AS THEY SHOULD.

Get your mind right, rise up from the alter and recognize that there is so much more to life than being someone’s sole resource and doormat.

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90 Comments (+add yours?)

  1. Neecy
    Oct 01, 2012 @ 10:56:32

    What would happen if people stopped pedestalizing others? Would this world be a better and happier place where everyone had to prove themselves on thier own merit and not for some stupid silly ideoloies?

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  2. Kiwiwriter
    Oct 01, 2012 @ 19:42:56

    Interesting column….just remember that in the United States, we have a tendency to tear down people as soon as we put them up on the pedestal.

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    • Neecy
      Oct 01, 2012 @ 20:10:20

      HA! So true. but that usually happens moreso in the entertainment industry with celebs.

      Its been decades and centuries that WHite males and Blakc women have been placing Black men and WHite women on pedestals with no end in sight.

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      • Kiwiwriter
        Oct 03, 2012 @ 16:50:40

        Which is a truly astonishing irony…it’s always been interesting to me how so many white people get angry over white girls going with black men, and so many black people get angry about black women going with white men…it’s always about “stealing the women,” as if they were property.

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        • Neecy
          Oct 04, 2012 @ 08:15:39

          EXACTLY. WM and BM act as if WW and BM are thier property and they are not. The amount of effort and energy each group puts into trying to guilt WW and BM and trying to keep them fron getting together is insane. Focus on your own life and self and recognoize you do not own another group!

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    • ttmatthe
      Oct 13, 2012 @ 16:08:00

      I actually feel like people enjoy building others up so they can tear them down because it gives THEM a feeling of god-like power. “I made you, so I can destroy you!”

      It’s a bit sick if you stop and think about it…

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  3. Zorro
    Oct 03, 2012 @ 08:12:21

    I will read the entire post when I get home, but in the meantime…

    “Selfish” and “Needy” are adjectives, actually. Not nouns.

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    • Neecy
      Oct 04, 2012 @ 08:15:58

      LOL My dictionary is back!! YAAAY!

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    • Kiwiwriter
      Oct 04, 2012 @ 17:20:13

      It always annoys the hell out of me about people who get so greatly concerned about two total strangers and who they choose to marry…all these people who think that they are Dzerzhinski, Torquemada, Himmler, or J. Edgar Hoover…

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      • Neecy
        Oct 05, 2012 @ 08:36:17

        Exactly. when people or groups do this it makes thier stock go down in the dating market. like they can’t get a life of thier own nad need to cling onto certain people to feel whole or complete.

        They also shoot htemselves in the foot as well b/c they miss out on other opportunities as a result of thier ignorance and possessiveness.

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  4. gunslingergregi
    Oct 04, 2012 @ 09:39:55

    you might want to look into divorce and why white men got to marry outside the us
    nothing to do with not being able to get a white woman and more to do with not wanting to become another fucked over divorce statistc man

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    • Neecy
      Oct 04, 2012 @ 17:19:26

      HUH? WHo said anything about White men not being able to get White women or why White women divorced?

      All i said was what WHite men have got in return for their willingness to be providers for thier communities, children and wives are a shitlaod of divorces.

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      • gunslingergregi
        Oct 06, 2012 @ 11:05:16

        ”””””If not for Asian women, there would be a large host of White men who would be dateless and sexless b/c they don’t carry the traits that White women *REALLY* want, yet have told them (through feminist measures) for decades to have, to their own detriment.
        ””””’

        You did.

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      • gunslingergregi
        Oct 06, 2012 @ 11:11:03

        Ok that’s wonderful. But what have White men received in return for their willingness to do such things? A SHITLOAD of divorces!
        ”””’

        you did on both
        are you writing your own posts?

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      • gunslingergregi
        Oct 06, 2012 @ 11:27:05

        read the qoutes only then reread my comment for comprehension and you will get it and prob agree I got faith in you
        You can do it!!!

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        • Neecy
          Oct 06, 2012 @ 20:28:55

          HAHA!

          Ok i see whare you may have thought I was saying WW don’t want WM so they have to run off to Asian women.

          Actually, let me clairfy. There are many Beta kinds of White men who *DO* date Asian women b/c Asian women tend to be less judgemental and/or more attracted to nerdier types of WHite men vs. the average young WHite woman. You cannot deny a certain cailber of YOUNGER White men do date Asian women – i find they are typically more nerdier shy reserved types. Not in all cases but there are a lot of Beta White guys who would be dateless if it werent for young Asian women. Young American WHite women for the most part don’t respond favorably to the nerdier types of guys.

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    • Kiwiwriter
      Oct 04, 2012 @ 17:20:54

      Would you please phrase that coherently?

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  5. LynxViridis
    Oct 05, 2012 @ 03:17:53

    Good post. I agree with most of it.

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    • Neecy
      Oct 05, 2012 @ 08:37:33

      Thanks Lynx! COuld you please when you get a chance read my new post and respond with your honest feedback on how I handled a particualr situation on another forum with a shy guy who wrote a poem to a woman. Thanks!

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  7. *enchante*
    Oct 12, 2012 @ 11:54:17

    I for one cant believe that many Black Women put Black men on a pedestal—IMO the only ones who should put you on a ‘pedestal’ are men…this pedestalizing of BM may have started around the late 60s. I’m old fashioned, and have been around my aunt and her friends. They told me to ‘let the man open doors etc.’ and dont listen to the ‘feminists’..because they may make it worse for later generations, etc. My aunt if she was alive, would be 100 this year. White men IMO would put all women on a pedestal even BM as well BEFORE the modern feminist movements–when women said “dont open that door for me! I can open it MYSELF” and now men let them, and want nothing to do with them….

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    • Neecy
      Oct 12, 2012 @ 20:04:27

      hey Enchante!

      yes it seems things changed after the Civil rights movement especially with the Black man worshiping and pedestalizing. But there has always been points in history where Black owmen have placed Black men’s needs before their own and where they felt more protection shold be for Black men.

      Yes feminism has truly created a huge divide between men and women and also on the biological things that make men men and women women.

      i feel that feminisim should have stayed focused on making sure women had rights in the workforce etc. One they infiltrated the biological realm stating that women “can do what a man does” etc.,, things got messed up.

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  8. *enchante*
    Oct 12, 2012 @ 12:00:34

    I believe the ‘modern feminist movements’ got women and men COMPETING AGAINST EACH OTHER instead of cooperating together. In marriage, the best for married couples, are to be in business together–usually—I remember the old ‘mom & pop’ stores which shows just that. Sometimes, I see a women being ‘superwoman’ and the man starts to ‘let her’ thinking shes a bigger man than he is —thats not good

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    • Neecy
      Oct 12, 2012 @ 20:07:17

      YEP. I see it in the workforce everyday. Women who become nightmare supervisors and managers to work for b/c they want so bad to compete with men. instead of women embracing the feminine qualities that make us different than men, women want to take on masculine qualities even against thier own best interests.

      A lot of women do not know how to balance being strong and still being seen as a feminine woman that a masculine man wants to protect adn help. Some women see being feminine as a weakness and feels they have to always be in control as to not feel ‘wea’. I am a strong woman however, I also enjoy letting a man be a man…

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  9. GreeneInk
    Oct 12, 2012 @ 22:00:35

    Huh. I used to think like that. Until the man I let be a man revealed he was really a woman. No. I take that back. A girl.

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    • Neecy
      Oct 12, 2012 @ 22:31:00

      UHM. OMG LMAO!!!

      Uhm. I’m almost afraid to ask… butterumah…how did you *discover* *he* was a *she*. Were you alkready involved? LOL

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      • GreeneInk
        Oct 13, 2012 @ 01:39:02

        I was married to it .. for nearly 10 years. Six months before I filed for divorce, I not only saw it twist it’s butt in front of a known out of the closet gay man in the community while we were attending an event in downtown atlanta, but then … someone decided to send me photographs in the mail of him in the nude — photos taken by another man of them together. I guess my gaydar was off, but he sure had me fooled. Now … I really look at all men as gay, closet or no — just to make sure I never fall for that again. To me, they are ALL gay until they prove otherwise. And I do mean PROVE it … not with sex, but by their lifestyles, who they hang with, what their background is. I check them like I’m the hiring manager at Bank of America, credit check, too. I can do no less than a company would before they hire someone, especially someone who thinks he wants a personal part of me and to be in my life. I think, sometimes, people protect their cars and companies more than they do their health and lives, and their personal peace of mind.

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        • Neecy
          Oct 13, 2012 @ 11:45:31

          😯 OH MY GOD…..:( So sorry to hear this…

          So you got caught up with a Down low brotha? SMH And yes I hear Atlanta is the Mecca for men like this. this is why i never understood BW’s obsession with Atlanta!

          I am so sorry you had to experience this. but i wonder were there signs of something wrong before the 10 years? Did you not want to believe certain little hints that may have come up? I’m of course not blaming you in any way, bUt i always wonder if sometimes women block it out b/c its just to hard ot believe.

          I think that behavior is dispicable and I always say that this is further proof that BM place very little value on the lives of BW b/c they are ultimatley subjecting their unsuspecting wives and g/f’s to life threatening diseases and STD’s amongts emotional issues with thier selfish behavior and lies.

          It seems that even when the DL hit big several years ago BW were still in denial about why they should start expanding their dating horizons to other men.

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          • GreeneInk
            Oct 13, 2012 @ 13:15:03

            Atlanta is officially known as “Litttle San Francisco,” or Atlanta GA-y. I asked some of my friends later on who said they knew it before the wedding. I asked them two things: Why didn’t you say something and how did I miss it? They said “We couldn’t prove it, and we were afraid it would only make you mad at us and we wouldn’t be friends now.” And they said I didn’t see it because “I was so blindly in love with him that I could barely see myself clearly” at the time. It was hurtful and devastating and I lost everything because of it, even my ever-loving friggin’ mind, which only led to a lot of other loss after I exposed myself to some treacherous dangerous people afterward out of the pain. I eventually did write a book about it, but I don’t even want to go back and read it because it will only make me remember it and hurt some more.

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            • Neecy
              Oct 14, 2012 @ 20:44:41

              Green,

              It is amazing that after all you went through you still are able to forgive yourself and look back on what you may have overlooked. I think writing about it is a very theraputic thing to help you overcome this, although you cannot go back and read it b/c its too painful. but at least you wrte it out and got everything off your chest. That’s a good thing IMO.

              Admitting where you went wrong is the hardest part, but its also the first step to recovering from such an awful situation where as you said you damn near lost everything including your mind; although its still not your fault he was a lying selfish idiot.

              But I can understand that some friends feel they dont want to try to be the bearer of bad news with g/f’s who are in love and in relationship with someone they give the side eye too. We all know how often those senarios turn out when the girl in love blames or accuses her friends of being jealous or trying to break up her happiness.

              I’m just glad you were able to come out of it. A lot of BW are still in marriages and LTR’s with Black men who are very active in the DL lifestyle and these women are either completely clueless or simply keep overlooking the red flags.

              This all goes back to loving and valuing yourself and never placing another person on a pedestal or before your own needs. A lot of women overlook it b/c there may be something about he man they love (his looks, etc). Bu when you love and value yourself, its doesn’t matter what he may have going for him, if you see or feel he doesn’ have your best interest you leave.

              Life is a maze of learning, trial and error. Many of us learn the hard way from our mistakes and hopefuly we can pass on wisdom to others on how they can avoid.

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            • Neecy
              Oct 14, 2012 @ 20:45:48

              Honestly I have NEVER been impressed with or liked Atlanta. in college we would go all the time and I just couldn’t get into it.

              I think its one of the worse places for a single BW to go and live personally.

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          • GreeneInk
            Oct 13, 2012 @ 13:16:40

            I can tell you why black women love it so much … a lot of them are lesbians … got hit on by a few of them, too; which helped me to realize I’m not because I loathe the very idea. And the ones who aren’t lesbians … Atlanta’s a beautiful place for the superficial blingy high-falutin’ type who live only for the outer appearance.

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            • Neecy
              Oct 14, 2012 @ 20:48:39

              OMG LOL! I would have never guessed a lot of the BW there are gay themslves.

              I know a lot of professional and attractive BW live there, but they are crazy if they think they will find the best mates in ATlanta. Just more BW who are indoctrinated to want to live and be in and around nothing but Black folks and the same ole same ole Black oriented events and things.

              I’m sure there are also a number of Pro IR Black women there but i wonder what percentage they are since ATL is well known for being the Black mecca for almost everything. Can’t imagine what its like trying to swirl in Atlanta.

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  10. GreeneInk
    Oct 13, 2012 @ 01:40:25

    By the way … I did put him/her/it on a pedestal. Took better care of it than I took care of myself, and paid a steep penalty for it, too. Never again.

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    • Neecy
      Oct 13, 2012 @ 11:47:09

      Oh believe me you are one of many. Don’t beat yourself up. Honestly, so many BW do it, its clear to me that its indoctrination from childhood that carries into adulthood until their have an unfortunate experience that shows them reality.

      The blessing is, that youa re free from that loser and have learned your lesson that you have to protect yourself first and foremost and never place another human being on a pedestal.

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      • GreeneInk
        Oct 13, 2012 @ 13:24:05

        Amen to that. The hardest part was learning to forgive myself for “missing it.” Now I have to figure out HOW to love me all over again, cuz I’ve gotten to the point where I can’t stand looking at myself in a mirror any more. Oh well…

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        • Neecy
          Oct 14, 2012 @ 20:49:43

          That is all that is important. That you can forgive yourself and move on and allow yourself to love again once you feel you are ready. now you know that you have to vet and never ignore red flags b/c they are *ALWAYS* there.

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  11. jillodelight
    Oct 13, 2012 @ 12:10:29

    I was friends with a bunch white guys in school who would obsess over average white girls all the time (one even called this group of white girls Goddesses lol). These same guys accepted and excused bad treatment from white girls as well because they “loved” them. One side effect I see all the the time from WW being put on a pedestal, is that WW now all see themselves as unique and special for doing mundane and mediocre things. For example, childbirth, not being racist, being racist,deciding not to have children, getting married, not getting married, being religious or not, having a non-black spouse, not eating meat etc. They wanna be seen as special, empowered or unique for being porn stars, sleeping with multiple men, being obese (fat acceptance) etc. Every year some white guy tells white women that they aren’t funny and they get completely incensed lol Most WW comedians aren’t funny because they try too hard and you can sense the need for validation (competing with WM again). WM bend over backwards for WW all the time, in all arenas except comedy. I think it’s the only place they feel they don’t have to coddle and protect anyone.

    The sad thing is I can just replace BW in place of WM and BM in place of WW in previous paragraph for most of the situations :/ I never had problem with BM/WW couples but I just didn’t “like” a lot of them as people. I thought I was maybe envious or jealous (since that’s the only reason BW find most of these couple annoying lol) but when it came down to it I found a lot of BM and WW ANNOYING in general. For a lot of the couples I witnessed, I just saw the obnoxious traits of both on steroids (pedestals combined) lol Ive noticed when you stop looking at WW/BM as demigods, your treated a lot different. Most seemed shocked when I treat them normally, it’s like their expecting me worship the BM: I’ve seen a lot of BW kiss ass like crazy when they see BM/non-black spouse. This post made me realize how bored, tired and annoyed with the hype always surrounding BM and WW in general. I’m sure a lot of WM and BW feel the same way, but their stuck in autopilot.

    There was Clutch article titled “Be honest do you like BM?” lol It was directed at pro-IR BW and the writer, a BW, was trying to guilt trip BW into liking BM. The way BM have been pedestalized is the main reason why I’ve never been attracted to them or overly impressed with them.

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    • Neecy
      Oct 14, 2012 @ 21:04:53

      OMG Jill you entire post is so on point with how I feel.

      I have had discussions about this in previous threads where we discussed that even the most average White woman feels special b/c of all the hype and pedestalization that White men do. I remember a discussion we were saying that pretty much all a White woman has to have is hair, teeth, a vagina and she’s called “HOT”. And if she is skinny with blond hair (even if her face looks like it was hit twice with a brick)– oh forget it!! LOL

      All that is a result of pedestalizing done by White men who call practically any White woman hot or beautiful. Unfortunately this has not really worked overall in White men’s favor. Like you said and have seen with your own eyes (and myself included) all these women do is use those White guys who worship them for their resources and string them a long in the friend zone. Yet these White guys still are more than happy to oblidge and be their lap dogs.

      And as you said the same applies to how BW treat and pedestalize Black men as if any and all of them are special. It reminds me of times I have gone to Church and God forbid some young Black guy walk up to join the church everyone acts like it’s the coming of Christ. Anything a Black man does that is “good” is sooooo “special” and deserves all these accolades and praise for doing basic stuff that everyone else does. A Black man goes to college? Let’s have a parade! A Black man provides for his kid – it’s a celebration of Black malehood! A Black man gets a job – Let’s celebrate! Same as you said with WW. Any and everything they do is considered “GREAT” or “SPECIAL” when it’s really the same mundane mediocre stuff all other women are doing.

      But this is why WW and BM are so beyond annoying in general and get all worked up if you do not feed into their egos or have any desire to treat them like they are anything special. And it even kills me when Black women and White men get all crabby with other people who refuse to worship the ground BM and WW walk on.

      And yes we have all had the unfortunate yet laughable experience of the Bm/WW couple that is doing everything under the sun to get your attention b/c they want to make sure you see they’re together. They are also hoping that you somehow give them a bad reaction so they can feel better about themselves. That is why I get irritated with WM and BW who feed into that nonsense. LOL

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  12. ttmatthe
    Oct 13, 2012 @ 16:06:15

    Hi, Neecy! 😀

    I’m just now finding out you have a blog. So I’ve got some back-reading to do. o/

    “Now while I do benefit from a lot of the old school feminist ideologies and also believe that we do need forms of feminism to ensure women’s rights are always upheld, today’s and the last couple decades of feminism has reached all-time ridiculousness.”

    Today’s mainstream feminism is simply not about black women. They don’t even pretend to give a crap about non-upper white middle class centered issues anymore. And if you throw the “R” word at them, they’ll drown you with white women’s tears as they instruct the indignant black feminists that “all the in-fighting is getting in the way and that everyone needs to work together to overcome ‘The Man'”

    …And that sounded a wee bit TOO familiar for my taste so I will continue to pass in that regards.

    And IA with the idea of abandoning pedestals and not worshipping people. You build up all these expectations, particularly about how you’ll be reciprocated. But of course it’s never going to happen. When people’s egos get blown up, they believe they DESERVE the overly inflated regard and automatic deference. That’s why when such persons don’t get that treatment, they lose their minds. LOL. The best thing we can do for other people is treat them with respect, but respect as HUMAN BEINGS rather than infallible gods.

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    • Neecy
      Oct 14, 2012 @ 21:14:43

      HEY TONI thanks for coming by and posting!

      yes I don’t really think feminism was really for anyone but White women, but as a default other women benefited in some ways. Feminism is only for BW when the WHite feminists wants to use us as a mouthpiece for their cause. They don’t mind using BW when they want to have us be the mouthpiece for their cause, yet how often do we see WHite feminists fighting for BW and all of the adversaries we go through as women which is much different than what the average WHite feminist deals with?

      That is why i don’t jump on that bandwagon. And yes I have found some of the biggest racists against Black womanhood are WHITE FEMINIST WOMEN. They still want to have the privledges and resources of White men (even while compteing with them).

      i remember an article about IR’s with BW and WM on jezebel and man oh man those White feminists were doing everything in thier power to suggest that BW are better off with BM. LOL

      And you said it perfectly. We should be treating everyone with respect (as long as they earn it) and not treating people special based on WHAT or WHO they are.

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  13. Adama
    Oct 28, 2012 @ 19:58:37

    Whoa there! While I mostly agree with your post, I think it’s a little harsh to blame black women entirely for this behavior. Black women empowerment sites like this one use words like “pedestalization” to get black women’s attention, but at the same time black women’s behavior should’ve been seen as supportive of black men. Black women have a RIGHT to expect reciprocity, but black men aren’t providing it. All nations have cultural norms that expect the men and women of that nation and ethnic group to marry each other and build stable families. Cherishing, being exclusively attracted to, and marrying the opposite gender of the same race is normal. The common good of that race, ethnic group or nation is the end goal for this cohesion. Uplifting and praising the members of one’s race serves to affirm the identity of its members. It’s working for every race and nation…

    …except Black Americans. Your diagnosis is valid only due to the fact that black men are rejecting black women. If this weren’t the case, your analysis wouldn’t hold water. On one hand, I agree that due to changing times and the current toxic breakdown of black male/female relations, that black women should stop praising black men. Many black men have abandoned us. They might as well be dead. On the other hand I find it a little unfair to twist our support of black men through all our hard times as “pedestalization.” And worse, that it’s OUR fault for expecting black men to reciprocate. They’re SUPPOSED to reciprocate. In a healthy society that is what men do. But Black (American) men refuse to. This white supremacist nation has broken them and the black family since slavery. Many black men are DEEPLY insecure as a result. However, the blame falls squarely on black men because they can examine and change themselves. But many refuse to. Since we can’t MAKE them change, or value us or support us, we have to adapt ourselves to the situation by using sites like these.

    Your take on white male relations with white women is a stretch to say the least. There are definitely some snobby, entitled white women out there. But I would hardly say that white men are being taken advantage of by white women. Oh contraire, this nation is run and owned by white men. Patriarchy is far from dead in this nation. For every pompous snooty white girl, there are loads more insecure white girls and women stumbling over themselves trying to please and get a man. The raunch culture of America has practically turned many white girls into self-pimped prostitutes exploited for men’s consumption. I’d say the treatment of women in terms of relationships has deteriorated. We have made great gains in the workplace but we have REGRESSED in how men treat us. No thanks to the sexual revolution and “any goes” sexual mores. White men are being used by white women??? Don’t make me laugh! Indeed the white man has done such a good job of praising the beauty of the white female that the whole world is in bondage to her worship both directly and indirectly. Black men in particular have been so deeply affected by images of white beauty that they cannot appreciate the beauty of their own women. They now look at black women with dissatisfaction. Their perception has been warped. The tie that would’ve linked black men and women together has been broken asunder due to the successful exertions of white men.
    If it weren’t for that we wouldn’t be in this situation!

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    • Neecy
      Oct 29, 2012 @ 11:27:47

      Hi Adama,

      Let me say this. You seem to be falling back on that same “its the WHite man’s fault” for why Black men fail to be men overall and to uphold their culture and communities. Also why Black women continue to be FOOLISH and support the very group of men who HAV NEVER reciprocated. And then you even go so far as to say “if it weren’t for White supremacy” we wouldn’t be in this situation.

      YES it is Black women’s fault for continuing to try to support a shitty group of men who have never did SHIT for their communities, women or children. If you as a person continues to voluntarily support a person, group or thing and you have NOT received anything back in return but rejection, abandonment and shitty treatment then YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM no matter how you slice and dice it. because once you STOP giving and STOP supporting, people’s behaviors change when they see they will not simply get away with everything and will be held accountable for their actions.

      NO – White supremacy has VERY LITTLE to do with crap! Because back when racism was extreme, overt and in your face, Black people (and Black men) seemed to have their shit together. They seemed to manage to have stable families and act like normal fkn human beings in society. So I am not buying hat White racism White supremacy crap anymore b/c Black people have done WELL under extreme racist sanctions up until now.

      If it weren’t for WEAK BLACK MALES and the Black women who CODDLE their shitty behavior, the irresponsibility of holding yourself accountable for your actions and (not blaming DA WHITE MAN), their lack of desire to build stable families and communities, and to APPRECIATE the women that birth their sorry asses – that is the problem! Not white supremacy. You act as if White men can force Black males to reject Black women. You act as if White men are forcing Black men to abandon their duties as men in their communities and towards their children!

      Every other race and culture of men on earth can manage to be MEN and protect their communities an children no matter how many billboards of WHite beauty they come across.

      And this pedestalization and coddling of Black men by Back women is also another reason why shit has not gotten better overall b/c Black women REFUSE to hold Black men accountable for their shitty behavior – even towards them!

      What you say is true – it is normal for all cultures and ethnicities to place high value on the opposite genders of their race/culture b/c it serves them well over the long haul. This is a NATURAL thing that cannot be taught or even brainwashed away. What i am saying is, there is no amount of “WHITE SUPREMACY” that can keep Black men from desiring to create healthy bonds between their women and communities unless there is something wrong with BLACK MALES. All other races of men have been able to accomplish such feats even in the face of western ideals and White “supremacy”.

      I am not going to agree or even bother with making anymore excuses for the behaviors of Black men and the FOOLISH Black women who can see with their own eyes that worshiping and trying to uplift a group that has shown over decades and centuries they have no desire to return the favor. Enough excuses.

      IT IS PEDETALIZATION when you continue to BLINDLY worship any and everything for a group who has done nothing in return for you.

      At some point Black women realized this was a lost battle but still continue fighting b/c they can’t pull their heads out of the sand and move the eff on!

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    • Neecy
      Oct 29, 2012 @ 11:34:44

      Black men in particular have been so deeply affected by images of white beauty that they cannot appreciate the beauty of their own women. They now look at black women with dissatisfaction. Their perception has been warped. The tie that would’ve linked black men and women together has been broken asunder due to the successful exertions of white men.

      I’m sorry but this right here to me is just the poster child coddling of Black men. blaming WHITE MEN FOR WHY BLACK MEN CANNOT SEE THE BEAUTY IN THIER OWN RACE OF WOMEN????? COME ON!

      it suggests ONCE AGAIN that BM are not responsible for their own beliefs and actions. That BM are helpless little children who cannot be men and make their own decisions.

      And then we wonder why BM are the way they are? LOL

      Please explain this to me then. Black women are often force fed positive images of REAL MANHOOD by WHite men, yet didn’t seem to have that same effect on not appreciating Black men overall despite their obvious LACKING in this dept. SO explain how these “white supremacist” messages seem elusive to Black women yet only Black men have been so affected they can’t seem to manage relationships or appreciation of their own women? lol

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    • Chic Noir
      Oct 30, 2012 @ 23:13:45

      Well said about Black women and Black men. I agree with both you and neicey about the WW&WM relationship.

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  14. Adama
    Oct 29, 2012 @ 13:02:16

    Your reply was strong. Not in a bad way. I can tell we both express ourselves directly. Just to clarify, I do agree with you that black women should stop “pedestalizing” black men. However, I personally felt that some historical background needed to be added to balance the context here. I do not believe in coddling black men. Recognizng the effects of this racist white nation doesn’t mean we can’t also hold black men accountable for their actions.

    What i am saying is, there is no amount of “WHITE SUPREMACY” that can keep Black men from desiring to create healthy bonds between their women and communities unless there is something wrong with BLACK MALES. All other races of men have been able to accomplish such feats even in the face of western ideals and White “supremacy”.

    But other races of men haven’t been enslaved in this nation for 400 years either. That in itself broke down the black family. Families being torn apart during slave sales, black slave men having to see their women being raped, children sold to different plantations, really emasculated black men. Black slave men didn’t have proper role models and this has set the tone for generations. It’s hard to model what you yourself didn’t have. I repeat, that doesn’t mean black men can’t heal themselves, but history has to be taken into account. And let us remember that unlike other races, Black Americans have had to identify themselves by their color for GENERATIONS. From day one we’re forced to see ourselves by our race first instead of as human beings. Other races and nations, including African nations, don’t have to experience that unless (or until) they come to America. People in other nations have had the prevlidge of seeing themselves as just people within their nation, different tribes/ethnic groups, and clashes between them notwithstanding. Their minds are free of any baggage or stigma having been constantly attached to them. With that being said they have a more healthy, secure, and positive self persception than broken black men which MAY give them an advantage when being the providers and leaders of their communities.

    You asked a good question here:

    Please explain this to me then. Black women are often force fed positive images of REAL MANHOOD by White men, yet didn’t seem to have that same effect on not appreciating Black men overall despite their obvious LACKING in this dept. SO explain how these “white supremacist” messages seem elusive to Black women yet only Black men have been so affected they can’t seem to manage relationships or appreciation of their own women? lol

    Well, men and women are wired differently. Men are more superficial than women where they are stimulated by looks. Since society doesn’t train men to “self talk” or be aware of their emotions, they are more vulnerable to absorb, like a sponge, superficial ideals. Not to say that black men can’t resist such messages, because they can. It all has to do with how they are raised and many times black boys are raised by the idiot box. Now, someone could say that falls on the parents, and in particular the black mother. But when the parents and/or black mother has done all in her power to instill black pride into her children, especially her sons, and they grow up to become educated respectable men, but STILL choose to marry white or light-skinned women, then you can’t blame the mother. In that case I do agree with you that black men are the problem.

    I do enjoy discussing this with you Neecy.

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    • Neecy
      Oct 29, 2012 @ 13:36:56

      Adama,

      yes I appreciate you honesty in your responses. but i fear that too many BW still hold onto these “slavery” ideals as a way to give BM a pass for not holding up their ends of the bargain. Slavery happened. Yes it affected the SLAVES OF THAT TIME. We are dang near thousands of years away from slavery and there is no more excuses to be made for the behaviors of Black men or stupid ass ignorant acting Black people.

      BLACK WOMEN were just as much slaves as our male counterparts, yet we seem to be the least willing to make excuses for ourselves and why we can or cannot accomplish things and still try to work for our communities. And yet, still through it all when the proof is in the pudding that BW would most likley fare best for herself and children by dating and marrying and pro creating with men of other races who CAN provide and who act like REAL MEN, many BW still managed to find some *VALUE* in Black men, Black people, Black communities and Black “MEN” to stick it out and try. i don’t care to hear about how BM’s brains have been affected. its HOGWASH that needs to stop.

      During Civil rights era and before then when Black people were still subjected to tough racial laws and post slavery, Black people educated themselves, acted like civilized human beings, managed to have stable well built family structures, had almost NO Out of wedlock birth rates, were not killing each other, weren’t calling their omen bitches and hoes, I can go on. the point I am making is that if Black people could have it together during a time when it was literally post slavery and when they were still feeling and reeling in the effects of post slavery, there is ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE for why Black men and Black people today cannot get their shit together.

      Sorry. I am not on that WHite man/WHite supremacist bandwagon anymore. We now live in a time where – YES- Racism still exists, but for those Black people who *WANT* to succeed and do well they CAN and will despite adversary in the face of racism.

      The problem with Black Americans is they are too damn mentally handicapped to do better because they still want to depend and blame everyone else for why they cant do this or why they are the way thy are (when its negative). Its a lot easier to keep making excuses for why you are the way you are and how “your past” has made you the way you are, than to actually DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT and hold yourself accountable for how you THINK and act int he world. Its soo much easier to play the blame game and continue to use slavery as a crutch on why you are the way you are.

      I’m beyond sick of it. Black men were born men like all others. i don’t care what happened dang near 700 years ago. Black men at some point MADE THE CONSCIOUS DECISION that Black women were invaluable, black communities were invaluable, THEY as men are invaluable and their OFFSPRING are invaluable. No White man or men FORCED or put guns to Black mens heads. Black men have chosen to take the WEAK position. PERIOD. And BW keep coddling that decision by bringing up slavery and DA WHITE MEN.

      WHite men have nothing to do with this anymore. The problem STARTS and ENDS with Black men and BLACK WOMEN. PERIOD.

      BLACK WOMEN too were also slaves and subjected to slavery. If this were the case then it would stand to reason both BM and BW would be chasing down WHites as partners. While YES men are more superficial and seek mates based on aesthetic acceptability, WOMEN too also tend to seek mates that are shown to be good providers for her and her children – BLACK MEN are not the poster men for tat AT ALL yet BW still stick it out. Since women are raise t seek males who will be good providers for her and her children, it would make sense that BW would be doing EVERYTHING in their power to chase down WHite men who will most likely be able to better provide for her and his children based on their economic status overall. However, this is not the case.

      NO MORE Black male excuses. It has to stop and this constant reliance on slavery from 700 years ago is no longer a viable excuse anymore IMO.

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      • chicnoir
        Oct 30, 2012 @ 23:39:55

        Slavery ended in 1865 for Black Americans so it wasn’t that long ago .

        Now what often doesn’t get mentioned is how even on those plantations and small farms during slavery, Black men and women made make shift families where they took in children who were brought onto the plantation or children whose parents were sold, died, or killed.

        Furthermore, the OW rate of Black births did not rapidly increase until after 195o ESP 1960. So how we’re Black men under Jim Crow and night riders able to love, marry, and cherish Black women? Yet today with a Black president and a few Foution 500 companies having been run by Black men can’t they get it together?

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        • ttmatthe
          Oct 31, 2012 @ 04:57:52

          “Slavery ended in 1865 for Black Americans so it wasn’t that long ago .”

          Are you or are you not a slave? Right now? Were you born a slave? Was your mother and father born a slave? Were your grandparents born slaves?

          For the vast majority of black people alive today, the answer to these questions is a resounding NO, and you can bring great or even great great grandparents into it a lot of the times (and especially if we’re talking OOW births, because the generation gap in a lot of those cases has shrunken quite a bit).

          It continues to be dangerous to make excuses for black people regarding slavery because so many of them think of it as present and ongoing (a blatant lie) or recent enough to justify their dysfunctional behavior (an even more blatant lie).

          We have black men using white people and slavery as an excuse for murdering their women and children. This is twisted and the excuse making is tired.

          We are not slaves. We are free men and women with our own choices to make.

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          • Neecy
            Oct 31, 2012 @ 18:01:15

            EXACLY TONI!

            This is a very dangerous mindset especially for Black American women to continue with – especially since its not helping Black women or children in any way, shape or form by continuing to make “slavery” excuses on why our communities and kids can’t get it together.

            I just did a new post on this b/c it seriously needs to be addressed.

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          • chicnoir
            Nov 02, 2012 @ 13:25:22

            Hold on, tthemme!

            My great grandmother , who is still alive, her grand father was a slave and my parents were children during the Jim Crow era.

            Now I don’t for a minute believe that every problem we have today is because of slavery because we do have some control over our lives( buying expensive weaves, using drugs, supporting black bussiness, having children out of wedlock,not throwing trash on the ground in our neighborhoods etc) but I also will not act as if slavery AND Jim Crow didn’t put us at a big disadvantage. If you want to really be real, “our” generation is the first of black people in this country to truly be free.

            Unfortunately, not enough of us are doing things or are in position to do things to show honor to all the Black folks who died trying to get us here.

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            • Neecy
              Nov 03, 2012 @ 10:26:01

              Of course slavery and Jim Crow plays *somewhat* of a role in how Blacks are received. However, the bulk of Black people’s *issues* and problems are enhanced by Black people even if there may be underlying racial effects. It is Black Americans unwillingness to learn how to deal with disadvantages in a HEALTHY way and not exaserbating them by creating more dysfunction that will CAUSE more prejudice and racism.

              Black Americans make it VERY EASY for others to have a low opinion of Blacks just by creating a bigger circle of dysfunction around how we act, treat each other in general.

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          • chicnoir
            Nov 02, 2012 @ 13:31:17

            I think I mentioned here if not of the Beyond Black and White site “ABC” culture has been the downfall of the hood . The number of out of wedlock Births started to rapidly increase during the 1960s.

            Furthermore,even during slavery Black slaves would form makeshift families so it is a lie when say slavery caused Black families to break apart.

            and how that behavior came about with the int

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            • Neecy
              Nov 03, 2012 @ 10:27:57

              YES OOWism is the biggest culprit of the downfall of African Americans after the 60’s and 70’s. When the homes are unstable, everything else falls apart by default. Black people don’t seem to understand this.

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        • Neecy
          Oct 31, 2012 @ 17:59:21

          Hey Chic!

          Slavery ended in 1865 for Black Americans so it wasn’t that long ago .

          Uuuuh that is long ago. More than enough time for Black people to get their isht together. I just did a post on this topic b/c I feel its a very serious topic.

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  15. Adama
    Oct 29, 2012 @ 13:05:17

    Oops, I didn’t mean to block quote everything. Could you correct that for me Neecy? I meant to block quote only your comments; starting at

    “What I am saying is…”
    and
    “Please explain this to me then…”

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  16. neurochick
    Dec 27, 2012 @ 13:04:46

    “During Civil rights era and before then when Black people were still subjected to tough racial laws and post slavery, Black people educated themselves, acted like civilized human beings, managed to have stable well built family structures, had almost NO Out of wedlock birth rates, were not killing each other, weren’t calling their omen bitches and hoes, I can go on. the point I am making is that if Black people could have it together during a time when it was literally post slavery and when they were still feeling and reeling in the effects of post slavery, there is ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE for why Black men and Black people today cannot get their shit together.”

    Absolutely RIGHT. I am on ancestry.com and I discovered that my grandfather, my father’s father, according to the 1920 census, owned his own home that cost $500, and that was in the state of Georgia and he was a laborer, an iron worker with NO college education, now this was at a time that black men were being murdered by the Klan. And I have since seen this house, it was nice when I last saw it (in 1968) not a shack by any means.

    That’s right, in the South, the Jim Crow south, my grandfather owned his own home and his wife, my grandmother was listed as a “housewife,” and I also know from our family that the men on that side of my family always worked and their wives didn’t work until the Depression. Which makes me wonder, what’s up with young black men today?

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    • Kiwiwriter
      Dec 27, 2012 @ 16:05:47

      Neurochick, you have a very good point. After the Civil War ended, black men and women made tracks across the South, seeking to reunite with husbands, wives, children, and other family members who had been sold or escaped. While slave marriage vows often included the codicil “until death or distance do us part,” they took their vows seriously, as people should.

      Richard Nixon once gave an interview (it might have been the one with David Frost), saying that one of the things he regretted about his presidency was his failure to address the disintegration of African-American families, which I thought was an interesting comment from a fairly conservative guy. But Nixon was a complicated man — he founded the EPA, supported the Space Shuttle, and opened relations with China, all moves that torqued off his fellow Conservatives, knowing that as a conservative, he make those liberal moves.

      Anyway, I am angered by the disintegration of African-American families, and as a white guy from the middle class, I’m puzzled by it. As far as I can tell, and I hope I’m corrected if wrong, the central problem seems to be teenage girls who have babies far too early, and neither they nor the fathers are prepared to raise kids. The baby winds up in the hands of a grandmother, and the cycle continues to the next generation. This cycle has to stop.

      At the same time, I have seen plenty of highly functional African-American families, fathers and mothers married and living together, who raised their kids with solid values and morals, their kids succeeding in life, no problems.

      I don’t know what’s up with young black men today or when I was a younger man (I’m 50). I know when I was in the situation of being a father of a child before marriage, I was ready to take full responsiblity. But three days after I learned of the pregnancy, my girlfriend developed bleeding and had to have a D&C, which is another story, so I have not had my feet put to the fire. I don’t know what the answer is, except for boys and girls to either stop doing it or to actually use birth control when they do.

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      • Neecy
        Dec 30, 2012 @ 09:29:40

        Hey Kiwi,

        Here is my take. Yes I believe that slavery and post slavery reaked havoc on Black families. But once again – that is nothing but more EXCUSES that Blacks and some liberal supporters use to keep them in an enabled responsible status.

        There was a time and generation of Black males (my dad’s generation and before) waaaaaaay after slavery in the 50’s, 60’s and even 70’s and early 80’s where Black men were solid providers and fathers in the home.

        Growing up in the 70’s ALL of my Black friends had fathers in the home. Even in the early to mid 80’s. If no dad was in the home it was due to a divorce BUT they still were apart of their kids lives. My parents divorced when I was very young, but my dad still played a VITAL role in my life.

        It wasn’t until the 80’s and 90’s that this sudden increase in Out of Wedlock birth rates increased with very more and more Black men walking away from their responsibilities as men and as fathers. I blame rap music and gangster rap. I had never grew up in lower income environments so maybe this has been a problem that I was unaware of until gangster rap started coming out and glorifying this behavior. It has now seeped into normal and middle class Blacks and I am tired of it.

        Black men are also never held accountable in the Black commmunity for anything. SO of course why would they improve and do the right thing as men? Other races an cultures have high expectations from the men and thus the men overall and generally do the right thing and raise their kids.

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        • n/a
          Dec 30, 2012 @ 16:16:25

          Neecy, baby!

          Merry post-Christmas and Happy New Year! I decided to save the best for last and leave a quick comment at The Nest before I leave again. I should be back in a few months and I hope to see some new damn posts honey!

          I had a great time reading your gloriously endless (and insightful) posts and, occasionally, heating things up with a little banter. There are only a few women who’ve really impressed me online, and you, Miss N, impress more than anyone.

          And your new picture *kills* me.–

          Damn.

          n/a

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          • Neecy
            Jan 01, 2013 @ 20:11:49

            O.M.G!!!!!!!!

            Where the hail have you been MISTER!!!! You weren’t lying when you said you would be MIA for a few months. GEEZ! Were have you been? Locked away in North Korea???

            LOL Hurry back I miss ya!

            And have a very Happy New Year!!!

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        • Days of Broken Arrows
          Dec 30, 2012 @ 22:25:43

          Growing up in the 70′s ALL of my Black friends had fathers in the home. Even in the early to mid 80′s. If no dad was in the home it was due to a divorce BUT they still were apart of their kids lives. My parents divorced when I was very young, but my dad still played a VITAL role in my life.

          True and I saw this too. But keep in mind the white community is following close behind, being cheered every step of the way by media feminists at the Atlantic and other places. In fact, in many respects what happens in the black community is often a bellwether for what’s soon to happen with whites.

          That said, if I’d known you grew up in the ’70s, I’d have come here sooner, if only to discuss sitcoms and music — two other things that came crashing down in recent decades along with the nuclear family.

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          • Neecy
            Jan 01, 2013 @ 20:15:31

            Yes the WHite community (at least here in America) is surely following behind. And notice they too have been affected by the Hip Hop *CULTURE* (and I say culture b/c it is literally apart of current culture), has rubbed off on them as well as it has on the Blacks.

            I saw it coming. You cannot embrace a form of music and usher it to the masses and not think that it will not have an effect on those masses. For the longest the affects were on on the Black community and kids b/c that is where the music was embraced. Once it went mainstream it affected all of American society and culture as well.

            And OH do not get me started on Sitcoms from the 70’s. The sitcoms of today are a complete JOKE when you compare them to the ones of the past in the 70’s and 80’s. Even the dramas don’t match up. Its just so different.

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    • Neecy
      Dec 30, 2012 @ 09:22:06

      They don’t know struggle. And at this point I have given up even caring anymore. I would just hope that more Black women utilize exercising their dating options to include men of other races and cultures.

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      • Kiwiwriter
        Dec 30, 2012 @ 13:45:22

        Neecy, those are very strong and important points. I absolutely agree with you that I am sick of excuses.

        I’m a Democrat and a liberal, but I am also an absolute on accountability. My view is that you can have all the great programs in the world, but if you don’t make the right decisions, and take advantage of what they offer, go through the process, and use your fullest abilities to make those programs help you, it’s your own bloody fault.

        For example: I favor strong penalties for criminals…but I also favor strong re-entry programs when they get out. Otherwise you throw away lives and perpetuate cycles of violence and crime, which is destructive to many lives, and expensive to the state.

        I also agree with you that black men are not being held accountable for their misdeeds — except, oddly, by a large section of the white community, which lives in fear of black men stealing their homes, cars, possessions, and women, not necessarily in that order.

        I suspect rap music has a lot to do with it. I also blame the gangs and gang environment, which puts enormous pressure on young black males to be gang-bangers — often through maintaining climates of fear. It’s hard to argue with gang-bangers who can kill without too much fear of retaliation. They also offer the hopeless and helpless a false “family” and an atmosphere of glamor, with their elaborate rituals, operations, and, depressingly, elaborate funerals.

        I also blame the anti-intellectualism I have run into among black people here in Newark who look down on education and learning as a form of assimilation to white standards and attitudes, and a loss of black identity. These folks seem to revel in ignorance, and regard it as standing up for a race in some way.

        Interestingly enough, I have seen plenty of anti-intellectualism among whites, who get extremely angry over teachers and textbooks that put out anything that the American Legion or the 700 Club disapproves of. These folks believe that schools should only teach penmanship, baton twirling, and home economics. They rate colleges and universities solely by the excellence of their football and basketball programs, and not by their educational levels. This country, in spite of its scientific and engineering accomplishments, has always looked down on higher learning. In the 1930s, scientists were regarded as “mad scientists,” using Tesla coils to build Frankenstein’s monster. In the 1950s, they were all “eggheads” and “longhairs,” most of them accused of giving away atomic bomb secrets to the Communists. Today, they are derided when they talk about climate change and global warming, as “alarmists.” The result is that nations around the world are outpacing us in producing scientists, and we have to import our brains…we can’t produce them domestically. This anti-intellectualism has to end, for our own survival.

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        • Neecy
          Jan 01, 2013 @ 20:20:56

          KIWI,

          I completely agree! Its funny but I never thought hard about what you are saying about the anti-intellectualism in this country. This is why Nerds and men who actually make the luxuries and things we need and ENJOY are still never admired. Being a Nerd in American culture is like being an alien. You are fodder for ridicule and not only that women are made to look at Nerdy guys as “losers” while going after the men who are not really making things happen in the world. In an ideal situation nerd males would be the epitome of manhood in a sense, since they create, build and make all of the important things that keep a country in the 1st world status with luxuries and things that make our lives grand and simple.

          instead they are looked down on, picked on and often go through most of their life without receiving female intimacy and attention.

          I may actually make a post on this! Thanks for the idea.

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  17. Jer Littrell
    Dec 31, 2012 @ 18:21:42

    I grew up in Pennsylvania as a child and teenager. I joined the US Army when I was 22 years old and stationed in Europe for 6 years. I somehow broke out of “the matrix” of pedistalizing white women in the US when white women from Eastern Europe, who were FAR more attractive than American white women, started talking to me and becoming attracted to me. My sexual attraction for women who were “exotic” and culturally “different” started there. The first black woman I dated was an American, but lived in Europe most of her life; she was a US Navy brat. When she was 18, she moved to Amsterdam to live on her own. Somehow, she appeared “different” than many black American women I met back in the US. This is probably because she was a US Navy brat who spent most of her life in Europe and developed differently as a person. The second black women I dated immigrated to Germany from the Ivory Coast when she was 4 years old, she spoke German, French, and English. She really opened my eyes to the beauty of black women in so many ways.

    I guess my point is that joining the military and traveling the world really helped break me out of “the matrix” that I didn’t even realize that I lived in. At first, it wasn’t about white vs. non-white women. It was more about American vs. non-American women.. That eventually led me to opening myself up to black women. I’m currently dating a black woman in the US right now… But to this day, I still wonder if that would happened if I didn’t meet black women in Europe first… I wonder if it’s because black women in Europe to fit the “black stereotype” that is spread in America. Many black women and men in Europe and the UK are very well educated for example.. If a white male from the US is brought up to believe that most black people are uneducated, then their whole world would be turned upside down if they meet a black person from France or the UK…

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    • Kiwiwriter
      Dec 31, 2012 @ 18:56:36

      Interesting comment about expanding your “dating matrix” in the military. I saw that myself when I was in the Navy, with interracial marriages quite common, and very few social problems. The insular world of the military, which is closed off by everything from barbed wire fences to unique traditions, is separated from many of the issues of the civilian world.

      In the military, you have strict chains of command, everyone pigeonholed by rank and job specialty, uniform appearance, strict regulations and policies on every aspect of life (the Uniform Code of Military Justice even tells you what forms of sexual intercourse are legal), an authoritarian system, and a sternly regulated environment. It values physical fitness, sports, teamwork, conservative politics, patriotic values, and religion. It despises crime, drug abuse, individuality, and complex philosophy.

      Because of this, military people sort themselves into groups primarily by their command (they are all in the greatest company, battalion, ship, or squadron in their armed service), and by service branch (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard), and to a degree by job specialty or rank. Ethnicity is less important.

      After all, you are expected to fight and die for your buddies, regardless of their ethnicity, and this is pounded into you from basic training…that you put your life into the hands of someone who might be a total stranger, but because he or she wears that uniform, is automatically your brother or sister.

      So I saw black female Navy medics from Queens marry a white Marine from Arkansas, which seemed an odd pairing, and raise a family. More often, of course, I saw Japanese girls swoon over rugged Marines in their dress uniforms, or Filipina girls marry American sailors for similar reasons. The result was a base school full of kids who were half-Kansas, half-Olangapo City. Since everybody had the same standard of living, lived in the same base housing facility, shopped at the same Navy Exchange and Commissary, and snapped into a spine-tingling salute when the base loudspeakers blared “Retreat” at dusk, everybody was the same.

      Yet at the same time, we had plenty of racial tension. Sailors looked down upon and sneered at the Japanese. The girl I dated, who was the anchor of a Japanese TV station in town, would not let me see her TV station or meet her family, because of her position as a local celebrity…she could not be seen with a “gai-jin” in the community. And yes, every now and then, a Saturday night at the massive enlisted men’s club ended with sailors punching it out on racial lines. But not often.

      One thing about being posted to Japan for three years…I gained a great appreciation for the petty slights and irritation black American deal with…not being allowed in certain businesses…being followed around by security guards…not being seen as “good enough” to the Japanese community, because of the color of my skin. My condition had a difference, though. It expired on November 1, 1994, when I stepped into the base transport van and headed back to America. For my black friends, as I pointed out to them ever after, it never expired. They agreed with me.

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    • Neecy
      Jan 01, 2013 @ 20:30:35

      JER,

      You know I ALWAYS wondered what it was about the military where the men and women were most open to dating interracially. Especially WHite males. I find that White men in the military do not typically shy away from IR’s with Black women. I have always wondered what it was that made it so much easier for those WM in the military to live with, marry and pro create with BW compared to the general masses not in the military.

      I think most Americans would benefit from traveling and learning about how things and people are in other parts of the world. I think as Americans we tend to get caught up in our own bubble here and forget there is an entire world out there.

      I also *REALLY* encourage American BW to venture off American soil and see that in other countries we are not as negativley viewed as women as here in America. Almost EVERY BW that i have known that has traveled abroad across the pond says her expertness as a BW were completely different than here in America.

      Its good that you got to travel the world and judge people and women based on who they are as individuals as opposed to their *group*. I think the answer for American BW is to really remove themselves from the current American pop culture which certainly is not set up to promote or create positive images of American BW.

      I certainly plan on doing more traveling abroad in the years to come.

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  18. Jer Littrell
    Dec 31, 2012 @ 18:49:03

    I would also like to add that a lot of mental barriers in my mind about black men, that I didn’t even know I had, were knocked down after I joined the military. Before I joined the military, I worked in restaurants as a waiter. I NEVER had a supervisor or general manager who was a black male. When I joined the military, I had three drill sergeants in boot camp, one was white, one was black, and the other was asian. When I went to technical school to learn about satellite communication systems, I had 5 different instructors, 3 of them were black men, 1 was a black woman, and 1 was a white man. Statistically, there aren’t many black men in Information Technology professions, and there are virtually no black women.. So that experience knocked down a lot of mental barriers in my mind. I had really good instructors and it was well accepted among many people that those men knew their shit.

    I had 5 officers at my first duty station. 2 of them were black men. My platoon sergeant was a black man also..

    At my second duty station, my platoon sergeant was a black man, and so was my company commander.

    I was a still a boy when I was 22 years old when I joined the military. Today, will officially be my 7th year in the US Army and I can honestly say that I’ve been developed into a man. I can say that 50% of the mentoring, managing, and leadership I’ve received came from black men.

    I seriously doubt the last 7 years of my life would have been like that if I didn’t join the US Army and continued working in the civilian workforce in Pennsylvania. My experience in the US Army has knocked down a lot of mental barriers in my mind about black men that I never knew existed prior..

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    • Neecy
      Jan 01, 2013 @ 20:35:21

      Jer,

      That is truly what its about. When people are exposed to others of another race in setting that are *NOT* revolving around stereotypes, but in real settings and situations where they have to possible learn from another person, the level of fear about that group subsides b/c you have been exposed to enough persons of that group to understand that its really about the individual and not the group.

      Plus I just think that Americans in general are more comfortable dealing with Black and WHite racial issues in terms of stereotypes than just dealign with each other as people and understanding its not really always about RACE that makes people bond, but their individual likes, values and experiences.

      Its so much easier to deal with people and see them as an entire collective of stereotypes than to just look at a person as a PERSON. WHat you got to experience was being able to deal with Black men in similar settings in where they were superiors or colleagues – and not just Black men. If that makes sense?

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  19. Kiwiwriter
    Dec 31, 2012 @ 19:02:56

    I had a guy in my company in basic training, who admitted to having been a member of the Klan before he joined the Navy. He was cagy about whether he was still a member. I was the first Jew he ever met, and he was astounded to discover that I did not have “all the money in the world.”

    I pointed out to him that if I did have “all the money in the world,” I would not be in the Navy, earning $95 a month for my ability to clean toilets and put up with being yelled at by our company commanders (the Navy’s version of drill sergeants), who were doing lousy imitations of “Full Metal Jacket.” I pointed out to him that I would be in a ritzy apartment in San Francisco that minute, with season tickets to the Giants, returning home after the good guys had won a game at Candlestick Park (their home in 1991), to find Holly Robinson herself waiting for me in a lacy nightgown and a state of quivering expectancy.

    The Klan guy thought about that for a moment, and said, “Oh….yeah, you’re right.”

    The Klan guy had a hard time with boot camp, getting yelled at by Filipino and black petty officers, and threatened to kill himself. The company commanders ridiculed him for doing so, which got them in trouble, but it actually worked…the Klukker pulled up his bootstraps, knuckled down, and survived basic training.

    By the time it was over, his views on white supremacy had changed a great deal, as he saw that the melanin content of his skin did not automatically confer upon him a higher status compared to his darker-skinned shipmates. Everyone in basic had to pull their weight to survive, and with our shaven heads, dungaree uniforms, and open barracks and shower stalls, were very much equal.

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