SHY GUYS AND POEMS

OK peeps, I need you opinion on another matter again as you know I like to look at and receive feedback from outside sources on a situation. Not that I look to change my mind, but I am always open for growing, improvement or just people who always agree with every word I say! LOL

So as many of you know I frequent on occasion Game blog and PUS site just b/c I  find interest in how men generally think when it comes to dating and mating. Now, what I have found there is an 80/20 rule when viewing a game blog and reading the comments. That rule goes like this in my eyes:

80% of the commenters SHOULD be ignored

20% of them actually have something worthwhile to contribute

But simply based on having been on a PUA community forum for over a year I simply realize that when I step out of my woman’s mind and look into the minds of men you discover some things. Maybe even things I shouldn’t know or even want to know, but nonetheless…

The thing that has most intrigued me about visiting online PUA communities is moreso realizing how men have been given misinformation (for the most part) from women on what and how to handle the dating mating arena. Also, the ideals of the “roles”  (biologically) men and women are here to perform for the most part.

What I have discovered just my hearing it from the horse’s mouth on men and comparing that to my own womaness and that of other women I interact with from coming out of the womb is that the rubber does meet the road somewhere in the middle. Meaning, that some things men are saying about their experiences with  women *ARE* accurate and true whether women see that or acknowledge it. Just as some of the experiences of women when it comes to men  *ARE*accurate and true whether some men want to acknowledge this r not

So the situation:

Let me start by saying I, at times, have a very strong opinions on some things and as a result at times it can cause me to go off on tangents or turn molehills into mountains. I acknowledge this. But often times I do it b/c I am really passionate about something and feel there is a message that may not be getting across on a grander scale. I have found that possibly my views and opinions are too strong for a lot of women sites/blogs b/c women typically I find these days pussyfoot and sugarcoat things to come off as “nice” or “drama-free” all in the name of creating a falsehood or not addressing certain things. And I find that a lot of men feel this way and thus why they flock to game sites to try to understand the female mind and how they keep getting mixed signals.

This is where I need the fellas to weigh in –especially since you are familiar with GAME sites and their message that men need to MAN UP in the dating/mating arena.

So another forum I was on (mainly female)  had a post where a guy wrote a long “romantic” poem to a woman he had never officially met or knew. It was to  a woman that had a real effect on him with her beauty who as in attendance at this “safe event” where it would have been PRIME for him to approach her.  He admittedly did not approach her b/c of his shyness in that particular situation and felt like kicking himself afterwards as he felt he missed an opportunity to connect with a beautiful  woman he really was impressed by. Thinking about it afterward he felt he missed an opportunity. So, as a way to “redeem” himself, he sent the blogstress who ran the event a poem to be posted on her site hoping that the woman he let get away will read it – and somehow a love connection could be made.

Now. I personally believe if he were going to write a poem to a woman he never met but wanted her to see he should have kept the poem private (not posted on the blog for all to see and comment) and instead, have  the blogstress send it to the woman he was too shy to approach at the event. Nonetheless, he requested she post it on her site, which she did.

In my mind, I believe he may have thought (as most shy men today who have been lied to and who have seen waay too many romatic movies) that ALL the women would swoon over the poem and beg this woman to see how wonderful this gesture was and give him the time of day – and therefore why he either requested and green lit it to be openly posted for all to see.

Unfortunately that did not happen.  Now the responses and feedback was 50/50. 50% of the women going on about how sweet and adorable, hot and romantic the poem was and how they wished their SO would write them a poem like that. The other 50% of women were honest and said things to the effect that while the poem was a good gesture, the reality is that a man who is too shy to go after what he wants is a man they feel will continue to miss out. Most of the comments in that (you snooze you lose) realm pointed to the idea that shy men who do stuff like this are somewhat of a turn off b/c women expect men to be able to “man up” and go after a woman he wants.

Anyway, I chimed in of course and really hit hard. Maybe it’s from my PUA training (lol), but I flat out said that this “shyness” (especially among White men) has to cease soon b/c in the dating/mating arena the shy sweet men who write poems etc., are going to lose out. That the men who get the girl and what they want are the men who have dealt with their shyness and simply go for it rejection be damned.

I said that a man needs to overcome shyness and more men need to “MAN UP” in this area  in order to have better success in the dating arena with women. I also explained the frustration women have with constantly hearing certain men  say “I let this woman bypass me b/c I was too shy to say anything to her”.

He responded defensively and claimed that we knew nothing about the situation or him in general and we were just playing on stereotypes and making our own assumptions. I responded in kind saying that once a person places something he or she does on a public forum for all to view (i.e. a poem) then feedback should be expected which would and could consist of both positive and negative. If the blogstress only wanted positive feedback she should have made a disclaimer to not post anything against the poem and to keep all comments in agreement.

I also got on the poem  thing and told him to never write a poem to a woman he doesn’t even know! That is just…  I said flat out that it came off as supplicating (and possibly creepy to some women) – and yes one woman said it came off as creepy. LOL But most women would never tell a man this. Instead they would be passive-aggressive and say to his face “oh that is so sweet” blah blah blah and then talk behind his back or walk away thinking this guy is a total “creepy” dude.

Maybe not all women but MOST women. And how do I know this? Because the dudes who make out the best in the dating market are not the ones writing poetry to women they didn’t have the guts to approach at a PRIME and SAFE EVENT.

I feel he should have just let bygones be bygones and either (1) learn from that missed opportunity and work on what he would do NEXT time in that ituation or (2) simply kept his poem private between him, the blogstress and the woman he sent it to. Or been actually grateful for the respectful yet HONEST comments from those of us who saw his shyness and poem as a typical missed opportunity that men need to start improving on.

I also suggested that he view Game blogs to understand that this is *not* what most women deem as romantic or attractive – BASED ON the admission of former and current shy men who have made various fumbles like this to only see their efforts go in vain.

I also pointed out that women LIE to men ad tell them one thing but based on what we say women’s actions say another. That ultimately the sensitive, shy sweet guy is not the guy most women are *REALLY* falling for. Most women want a guy in the middle who does not supplicate to women (especially ones he doesn’t know) b/c he made the ultimate fumble and let an opportunity to simply approach a woman pass him by IN A SAFE EVENT that would have been perfect for him to even say *SOMETHING* to her.

Anyway, the result was a bunch of moderators and other members (who claimed the poem was sweet) talking in  riddles and saying that we basically attacked this *POOR* guy and that we are always “running the men away” with our bluntness and that the forum should be a safe place for people to express themselves.

Of course I don’t get it. If you put yourself out there EXPECT people to respond – and it’s not always going to be POSITIVE! If you don’t want people responding to something you do or giving you HONEST feedback or criticism KEEP IT TO YOURSELF and don’t place stuff openly on public forums.

I’m just tired of women feeling like we have to keep LYING to men. The fact is there are a great number of women who don’t find shyness or that behavior of writing poems to women they don’t know sweet or romantic. They see it as effeminate and emasculating when a man can’t simply go up to another human being and at least try to start a conversation. I get it. It happens an.d we all miss opportunites from time to time. But my feeling is in these kinds of situations, a man just needs to chalk up his loss and try again on the next woman who he may find interesting or beautiful, rather than writing a poem after the fact

Am I wrong or being a heartless bitch? Was I too hard on the guy? Should I and the other women who didn’t really swoon at his poetry and situation kept silent?

Please let me know if I handled my feedback and situation wrong b/c I just believe men should hear another POV instead of always hearing the “oooh we love that sensitive guy stuff” only to later see most women talk out of their asses.

I am not saying a man shouldn’t write poetry or be romantic. That stuff should be saved for the woman in his life, not random women he saw at events and didn’t have the guts to approach.  A man should never be so supplicating to a woman he doesn’t even know. Its just not a good look. Save that stuff for women who you actually know and who have reciprocated affections. Not strangers!

Now I’m the bad guy, I don’t understand why though. I was just being HONEST.

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67 Comments (+add yours?)

  1. Marellus
    Oct 05, 2012 @ 12:55:47

    Neecy.

    I said that a man needs to overcome shyness and more men need to “MAN UP” in this area in order to have better success in the dating arena with women. I also explained the frustration women have with constantly hearing certain men say “I let this woman bypass me b/c I was too shy to say anything to her”.

    It’s a hard thing to do, approaching a woman, when you have no PUA knowledge. How many shy men have you seen Neecy ? And how many men with PUA knowledge. I think the shy guys still outnumber the ballsy guys. But I can be wrong. What are you seeing ?

    Sill though, was his poem any good ?

    Me, I’d write a poem like this to that woman :

    … my bodacious delicious mellifluous murmur from an Aria sang by a drunk Mormon Opera Singer … thou art such an inspiration for me … that I must write some poetry … and with these sonorous tremulous words … I can’t wait discuss with you, all them hissy verbs …

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    • Neecy
      Oct 06, 2012 @ 18:56:18

      LMAO @ your “poem” ah i see you haven’t changd one iota! LOL

      I know marellus I have to remember that most men are completely unaware of the PUA sites and the golden rules of *not* supplicating to women.

      more men still believe in the age old *sensitivity* Supplicating route to win women over.

      Regarding the poem. it was a poem. All poems are sweet in spirit. Its not so much the poem itself that’s the problem, but rather the fact a man would write such a long poem to a woman he doesn’t even know is the problem.

      But honestly, he didn’t know any better, so i should remember that.

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  2. Marellus
    Oct 05, 2012 @ 12:56:43

    Reblogged this on The Commenter.

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  3. Alexander
    Oct 05, 2012 @ 13:45:53

    From my experience, you said the truth. Girls might say he’s so cute, he’s adorable, but when it comes to something more serious, all of them won’t consider him suitable for a partner. That’s my experiance. Surely there is a place for romance like this, but i wouldn’t have ever expected it to solely win a girl for me. What every girl liked in me was eloquency, wit, dominance, fun making, and i couldn’t believe; even anger and threat of agresion(not pointed at them), and after some time if all these things were being interchangibly manifested, they tend to make next move and make a connection(i approach them at that point without fear and flirt all the time), in that mode they want a little more of beta traits, wraped up in alpha frame.

    Yes i get my game is still shit, but i’m getting better and better.

    One question for you: When i look at the girls they tend to blink nerviously once, i offcourse have an explanation to this, but i want to hear it from you, so i could be sure(i know it’s not the same with every girl offcourse), but judging by myself i do blink nerviously when 1) I am talking to a girl that i really like, not just feel attraction to, and 2) when am afraid of someone. So could it be that those girls have some feelings for me?

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    • Neecy
      Oct 06, 2012 @ 19:09:53

      HEY ALEXANDER!!!

      From my experience, you said the truth. Girls might say he’s so cute, he’s adorable, but when it comes to something more serious, all of them won’t consider him suitable for a partner. That’s my experiance.

      I agree and that is what I was getting at. That b/c the gesture of a man writing a poem is nice, many women will respond with the cliché’d “oh that’s so sweet I wish my husband/boyfriend would do that for me”. But at the end of the day these same women have no problem being with guys who don’t do that for them that they love all the same.

      I am not saying women don’t like romance or sweet gestures from guys – but usually only sparingly from the men they have ALREADY committed to in some way. Even then they don’t want their guy to be overly romantic or sensitive.

      Surely there is a place for romance like this, but i wouldn’t have ever expected it to solely win a girl for me. What every girl liked in me was eloquency, wit, dominance, fun making, and i couldn’t believe; even anger and threat of agresion(not pointed at them), and after some time if all these things were being interchangibly manifested, they tend to make next move and make a connection(i approach them at that point without fear and flirt all the time), in that mode they want a little more of beta traits, wraped up in alpha frame.

      Very true! I think this is definitley the route. I call that guy a “monkey in the middle” in the sese that he has a nice balance of both higher beta triats wrapped up in desirable masculine Alpha traits.

      Yes i get my game is still shit, but i’m getting better and better.

      Sounds like you have something good going!

      One question for you: When i look at the girls they tend to blink nerviously once, i offcourse have an explanation to this, but i want to hear it from you, so i could be sure(i know it’s not the same with every girl offcourse), but judging by myself i do blink nerviously when 1) I am talking to a girl that i really like, not just feel attraction to, and 2) when am afraid of someone. So could it be that those girls have some feelings for me?

      I would say that a woman blinking nervously most definitley could mean that she has some sort of butterflies in her tummy b/c she is attracted to you in some way. I would look at other forms of body language to really know if this is right. She may even be smiling nervously or playing wit her hair etc. I would definitley look at her total body language to really determine what is going on.

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      • KingsDaughter
        Oct 08, 2012 @ 02:41:37

        It’s totally fine if a boyfriend or husband does that. Maybe they’re not typically the most romantic so it would be appreciated if they tried it.
        Different story if you receive a poem from a stranger. Mind you, you wouldn’t straight away think it was from that George Clooney look-a-like at the gym. You might immediately think its from that weird guy always lurking round your neighbourhood.

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        • Neecy
          Oct 11, 2012 @ 18:11:14

          EXACTLY. Its quite different if a man you are involved with writes you a loving poem. but when guys who you don’t know and ones you’ve especially never have even spoken with do it, it will most likely send red flags to most women as either he is “creeepy” or just overly supplicating without even knowin her. And in some instances some women will use a guy like this b/c he comes off as overly supplicating. That is why when i responded to him i said I was telling him this for his own protection. Some women will see this as a weakness and will run over the guy.

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  4. Omerta327
    Oct 05, 2012 @ 19:41:31

    “Am I wrong or being a heartless bitch? Was I too hard on the guy?”

    Not at all. You did the right thing. Hell, I probably would’ve been a lot harder on him than you. But then again, I’m a bastard, so…

    This guy is the dictionary definition of BETA. Writing a friggin’ POEM and posting it online for a girl you’ve only seen and never even MET??!!?? WTF? As you said, it’s creepy.

    “In my mind, I believe he may have thought (as most shy men today who have been lied to and who have seen waay too many romatic movies) that ALL the women would swoon over the poem and beg this woman to see how wonderful this gesture was and give him the time of day – and therefore why he either requested and green lit it to be openly posted for all to see.”

    Well, I think that’s pretty obvious. But it don’t work that way at all. And it doesn’t sound like he learned that, either.

    “50% of the women going on about how sweet and adorable, hot and romantic the poem was and how they wished their SO would write them a poem like that.”

    Meh. I’m not so sure about that. Women say they like that stuff, but I doubt they really mean it deep down most of the time.

    “…the reality is that a man who is too shy to go after what he wants is a man they feel will continue to miss out.”

    Exactly.

    “He responded defensively and claimed that we knew nothing about the situation or him in general and we were just playing on stereotypes and making our own assumptions.”

    Hey, if it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck…

    The bottom line, Neece, is that I see nothing wrong with any of your input on this discussion. I’m behind you 100%.

    And, BTW, what exactly is a “safe event”?

    And O/T, but I gotta ask – how much you payin’ for gas out there in Cali these days?

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    • Neecy
      Oct 06, 2012 @ 19:24:59

      Hey Omerta where ya been?

      Well a safe event is an event where literally it was set up for people to mingle and interact with one another for *possible* love connections. If he couldn’t even approach a woman at an event where women would have definitley been open to at least a guy approaching them, then there’s a big problem!

      Thanks for your support on the matter. The way some of the women and blogstress and moderators acted after we responded, they acted as if we were cold hearted and attacking him. Saying things like men leave the site b/c we are to blunt. i’m sorry but sometimes the truth hurts and if people cannot handle it then maybe they shouldn’t be online. A I have never seen any of the women act rude or disrespectful on any thread as the site tends to attract classier types of Black women who would never outright just be rude or disrespectufl to anyone. However, if they don’t agree with somehting or if they have an unpopular opinion they will simply say it as i think shoudl be allowed on any kind of forum.

      I feel like if anyone puts themselves out openly online, they should expect or at least be prepared for feedback that *may* or *may not* be in agreement.

      i was just trying to give him a warning that many women would simply not find a man they don’t know writing them a poem romantic or even attractive. That is not to say *ALL* women feel that way but i think a lot of un informed men think most or all women like that and respond to it positivley and we dont. that is all I was pointing out. Basically to tread creafully with stuff like that for his OWN protection.

      i think we have discussed on this blog before in previous posts, that supplicating to a woman is a ure way for her to lose gina tingles – even in relationships let alone situations where the guy doesn’t even have the girl.

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      • Omerta327
        Oct 07, 2012 @ 09:30:31

        “i think we have discussed on this blog before in previous posts, that supplicating to a woman is a ure way for her to lose gina tingles – even in relationships let alone situations where the guy doesn’t even have the girl.”

        Yep. That’s classic pedestalization. Surefire way to get the “You’re a nice guy, but…” speech.

        If you come right out of the gate devaluing yourself like that, you’ve already lost the battle.

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        • Neecy
          Oct 12, 2012 @ 21:36:46

          Hmm for some reason this went to my spam folder. Sowwy and glad I checked it.

          Anyway, that’s just it. A lot of guys don’t realize that “you’re sweet, nice”” etc. speech they get is the result of him having come off as too supplicating. Its kinda like the girl who is not a challenge for a guy. Once you show yourself as overly supplicating to someone that has yet reciprocated you’ve set yourself up for failure – its like they see you as nice, but do not see you as relationship material b/c I believe people like a bit of a challenge.

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  5. Omerta327
    Oct 05, 2012 @ 19:46:24

    Any way you could post the poem here? I’d love to read it. Sounds like it’d be good for a laugh. Or a cringe.

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    • Neecy
      Oct 06, 2012 @ 19:29:11

      Ahhh. I don’t want to do that. i think it would be kinda mean – i don’t wanna mock him – lol. However, It was your typical run of the mill “i saw your beauty….you had an effect on me…” poem to a woman that the guy doesn’t even have yet.

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  6. onthewaydown
    Oct 06, 2012 @ 11:52:18

    I read the poem and the comments early on, when people were all saying good things about it.

    I declined to comment because I thought the same thing: “Um, this guy had a prime opportunity to approach this girl, so why didn’t he?”

    I’m a shy girl. I have actually had social anxiety/social phobia for the majority of my life (I would say that I have recovered greatly in the past two years), so I do understand that it is difficult and I sympathise. However, I don’t believe shyness is an excuse. What I mean to say is, that even when I had social anxiety, I still managed to give speeches for class, to attend job interviews, to work in group projects, etc. I did these things despite the fact that they scared me to death because they were important to me (um, failing a course or not getting a job is not an option). Even when my shyness was extreme (I couldn’t leave my dorm room without having anxiety attacks), I was still motivated enough to go to a psychologist or a psychiatrist to solve this problem.

    I hope my point is getting across. If a guy really wants to get to know a girl, he should talk to her, even if he is nervous. And even if that particular girl is not important to him…if he finds himself having trouble with women, and he desires to date/have a relationship with/marry a woman someday, he should seek help or something so that his shyness is not holding him back.

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    • Neecy
      Oct 06, 2012 @ 19:53:33

      HI ONTHEWAYDOWN!

      Thank you for posting and sharing what it’s like to be afflicted with anxiety and extreme shyness. I believe a lot of people both men and women have this issue and I am so glad that you have not let it be a handicap to you. This society is definitely built for the extrovert and often times we tend not to understand the introverts amongst us – and there are a few.

      I have always been an extrovert but ironically I can be very shy when at first doing public speaking. I remember my first public speaking class in college; I choked up and literally froze on my first presentation in front of the whole classroom. Literally froze! I felt like crying. I couldn’t move. I couldn’t believe it – especially since I was never a shy person and always outgoing even in situations where I didn’t know anyone.

      I know everyone misses an opportunity at some point in their life and I do kinda feel for him and other men who get a moment of shyness in a situation and lets an opportunity pass by. But you’re CORECT in that men afflicted with extreme shyness and social awkwardness need to do whatever they can to overcome it – either just do it or see a therapist or someone that can help them.

      I just hope that he learned from that and saw how even in a safe environment he was too shy to move forward and that is definitely something men in the dating market *HAVE* to overcome if they plan on being a part of it. The way things are set up for the most part, is women expect men to do the approaching. If a man can’t do that or finds himself debilitated when those moments arise, he will lose out on many opportunities.

      But the other side of the coin as well is – men need to understand that supplication to women they don’t know (or even know) is not the route to go IMO if he wants to keep and gain her respect. This is not to say a man should not be charming, kind r compassionate towards women, but that is a huge difference from simply pouring his heart out and supplicating to a woman simply b/c of how she looks.

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  7. onthewaydown
    Oct 06, 2012 @ 11:55:13

    @Omerta, she means it’s a safe event because there was a greatly reduced risk of reduction for the guy in that particular situation…I hope that helps enlighten.

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  8. Kiwiwriter
    Oct 06, 2012 @ 12:18:09

    I think that if this guy felt comfortable in using poetry as a way to attract the girl of his dreams, I applaud him.

    At the same time, I can understand the girl of those dreams reacting to such an overture negatively…doing so can come off extremely weird, possibly even threatening.

    There are a lot of men in this world who would make terrific boyfriend and magnificent husbands, except they lack the smooth talk and rampant arrogance to be able to just go over to a girl and sweet-talk her off her feet. Maybe it’s because they lack the arrogance, the smooth talk, and the pick-up lines…they’re not into conquest and adding notches to the bedstead. Since they can’t offer a cool car, rippling muscles, and great dance moves, all they have is sincerity…and too much of it hurled too early only scares women off.

    That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

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    • Neecy
      Oct 06, 2012 @ 20:02:01

      KIWI,

      Great points!

      But I think men need to understand not all men who approach women are smooth talkers with rippling muscles etc. and women don’t EXPECT that or wantthat all of the time. There are many types of men and every man has to find his comfort zone. For the men who fit that rippling muscle smooth talker profile, then that is the route they should take.

      For the more reserved shy guy, his approach should be less agrressive or obvious and more in the conversational/small talk at first route. or simply just saying “hello” and seeing what kind of bodily reaction or forms of non verbal or even verbal communication he gets from the woman.

      Sometimes even a “hello” can let a guy know if that is an opportunity worth pursuing based on how she responds. She may smile and gaze at him and be thinking to herself “hmm he seems to possible hav an interest which is good bc i think he’s cute” or whatever.

      It doesn’t have to be an all one approach which I think men forget.

      Women expect men to be original and to be themselves. I would not expect that every man that approached me to be a smooth talker or immediatley jump to the “interested in you” route.

      All a man has to do is go up to a woman and TALK TOP HER. How hard is that? its just basic conversation. He doesn’t have to go up to her asking her for the digits right away or even complimenting her or letting her know he is interested. Just simply talking. That is what this guy could have done had he been able to overcome his shyness and her beauty.

      All he had to do (or any man in this situation) is just strike up a conversation not even pertaining to asking her out or anything. See how she is responding to him verbally and physically. What is her body language like? What if he finds after making small talk with her, he doesn’t like her or how she presents herself as a person?

      I don’t expect every man to have the guts to come out and let a woman know he is interested in her. but I do expect a man to be able to at least *TRY* to strike up small talk or a conversation that could lead him into getting to see if she also has an interest.

      I think men should keep the poems and romantic stuff for the woman who they are with and that they know – it’s too risky for a man to do things lie that these days where women can and will take it the wrong way and may not see it as romantic or sweet.

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      • Kiwiwriter
        Oct 06, 2012 @ 20:53:38

        I suspect a lot of guys fear that if they go up as themselves, they will get rejected out of hand for lacking the smoothness, wealth, muscles, or hotness that Hollywood insists are the only things that will enable a man to get a woman.

        And it’s an extremely competitive world out there, and rejection can often be an upsetting experience…I’ve had some memorable put-downs and naff-offs from women in my dating days.

        You never see the nerdy, shy, quiet, bookish guy get even the mildly hot babe in the movie, unless it’s a farce. The nerdy mathematician is usually portrayed as a non-sexual character. James Bond gets the girl…not “Q.”

        The same thing is true in romance fiction…so I think that a lot of guys and girls have pre-conceived notions of what is required to be attractive and winning. I have known men and women who rate potential boyfriends and girlfriends purely on the superficialities of the hot body and bulging wallet.

        Being happily married, I have not had to go on a date in 17 years, or ask a woman out in that same length of time. On the other hand, I have had extremely attractive girls who neither noticed nor cared about my wedding ring come on to me (which was bizarre) or, after I make sure they know I’m happily married, tell me about their miserable love lives. I wonder where the hell they were when I was single, and point out the stuff I said above and earlier. Some agree, and some are still looking for a guy off the cover of a romance novel.

        I suspect that if I found myself single again, I would probably just simply take a direct approach…something along the lines of, “I saw you across the room and thought you were interesting. Who are you and what line of work are you in?”

        And then I’d steel myself for the crushing inevitability of my single days, which was one of these reactions:

        1. “Security!”
        2. “Get out of my face.”
        3. The girl turns to her boyfriend, who is usually built like a Chieftain tank, who threatens my life.
        4. “Have you considered giving your life to the Lord Jesus Christ?”
        5. “Would you like to go with me to my lesbian rights rally?”
        6. “I wouldn’t go out with you if you were the last boy on Earth!”
        7. “You’re very sweet…my boyfriend would enjoy talking with you.”
        8. “You must be joking.”
        9. “$50, big boy.”
        10. “No Engrish….you take me to States?” (In Japan)

        I have suffered all of these responses.

        I suspect a lot of men have, also.

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        • Marellus
          Oct 08, 2012 @ 12:54:43

          I know I shouldn’t laugh at those put-downs … but they’re sooooo funny !!!

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          • Kiwiwriter
            Oct 08, 2012 @ 16:06:08

            Hey, I laugh now, because it’s all behind me after 17 years of happy marriage, but it was horrible at the time.

            I didn’t list my favorite. I said to a girl in a high school class, “Nice weather today,” and she whipcracked, “My boyfriend likes weather.” She’d heard I was single and desperate.”

            Never want to be that way again.

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            • Neecy
              Oct 11, 2012 @ 18:25:54

              AWWW!! 😦 That reminds me of a post a former poster named Matt posted on here (its in the archives somewhere) where he posted a vidoe from You Tube of a comedy sketch on how women will automatically bring up thier b/f’s anytime they may sense a guy is trying to interact with them or when a guy comes up to them even without showing interest. it was funny. If i find it i will post it…

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          • Neecy
            Oct 11, 2012 @ 18:23:23

            OMG I was in tears!! Those were hilarious – espciall the “No engrish” and the gicing your life to jesus. LMAO!

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            • Kiwiwriter
              Oct 27, 2012 @ 20:03:36

              Well, that actually happened to me…the Japanese girls all wanted to get the hell out of Japan, where they are treated as second- and third-class citizens by their fairly racist and sexist society.

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        • Neecy
          Oct 11, 2012 @ 18:20:56

          OMG LMAO!!! Sorry to laugh Kiwi but those responses are hilarious! I always thought most women just make up a simple “ooh I have a b/f” excuse to get away, but I guess not.

          As you can see I guess it was a numbers game b/c you eventually found the “one. But the whole point – YOU AT LEAST had the guts to approach women even after having dealt with rejection after rejection. That didn’t stop you from actually going up to a woman you found attractive and at least asking her out. Ultimatley in the end you did find a woman who loved and appreciated you. That’s the point. A lot of shy men don’t realize that the less they approach women, the less chances for finding a love connection. It *is* a numbers game, which means for the average guy who is not a stud, will experience some rejection along the way. But if he keeps pushing he will eventually find a woman he likes and who will like him.

          And yes, I always say its in a guys best interest for himself to be direct and simply let a woman know his interest up front. This will help him avoid being friend-zoned or tagged along.

          And the reason I suspect women come onto married men is b/c a man who is taken seems attractive to other women b/c “somebody wanted him” and the idea of “taking” a man away from another woman. And b/c many women today have extreme loads of insecurity and a twisted way of feeling better about themselves (i.e. competing for a man that is already taken) they feel that if they can take a married man away from his wife or get him to cheat on her, that somehow (in their twisted brains) confirms she is ”above” that other woman or has something special. Of course all that means is that she is an insecure loser who can only be validated by being a man’s side piece, but they don’t seem to see it that way – *shrug*. I guess it benefits the married men who don’t seem to care about cheating on their spouses.

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          • Kiwiwriter
            Oct 27, 2012 @ 20:05:00

            All I know is that while I made a mediocre boyfriend, I’ve been a pretty decent husband. I prefer being a husband to being a boyfriend.

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          • Kiwiwriter
            Nov 04, 2012 @ 14:56:43

            Sorry I haven’t weighed in on this issue, but Hurricane Sandy got in the way. Now I’m so exhausted from 13-hour days, I don’t remember what I was talking about.

            I just hope things work out for all concerned, I guess.

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            • Neecy
              Nov 06, 2012 @ 12:37:58

              KIWI,

              Its good to hear you are ok!! Are you a city worker? Did your home and everything turn out ok?

              My mom is in New Jersey and they literally just got their power turned back on yesterday. It was a whole week!

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              • Kiwiwriter
                Nov 06, 2012 @ 18:11:43

                Thanks, Neecy. I’m a Senior Press Information Officer with the City of Newark. I’ve been working my rear end off for the last two weeks. 13 days straight, with 13-hour days during the actual hurricane. We had 95 percent of the City without power. We lost power in our house for three days. And tomorrow we’re getting hit with a major storm. Tomorrow is also my 50th birthday. What a way to turn 50…a giant storm and Romney as president. Jeez.

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                • Neecy
                  Nov 07, 2012 @ 07:46:58

                  OMG!!!! Well

                  (1) HAPPY EFFIN BRTHDAY DUDE!!! You got one present – OBAMA re-elected 😀

                  (2) I cannot believe you guys are being hit with yet another storm and people are JUST NOW getting power back from the last one

                  (3) You seriously deserve a break and rest. I cannot imagine what its like having to work those long hours through the aftermath and during a horrific hurricane. My hat goes off to you!!

                  (4) I was supposed to be heading back that way for Thxgiving, but not now with everything that has happened ;(

                  (5) I hope you and your family are ok and will continue to be okay during this next storm.

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                  • Kiwiwriter
                    Nov 10, 2012 @ 17:00:04

                    Well, to respond:

                    1. I got three presents. A: Obama was re-elected. B: Those two sexist pigs in Ohio and Missouri both lost. C: My second favorite baseball team, the San Francisco Giants, swept the Tigers in the World Series in a season that saw their first perfect game in 126 years and their first time ever winning the seventh game of a post-season series.
                    2. It was bizarre to see six inches of snow on my birthday. Fortunately, temperatures will hit the 60s this week and clear it up speedily. There are still 2,500 people in Essex County without electric power.
                    3. I put in 38 hours of overtime on the hurricane, including working on Election Day, which is a holiday. At least I voted. I slept for three hours today. Thank God I have Monday off for Veterans’ Day.
                    4. Yeah, stay out of New Jersey. We have gas rationing in place.
                    5. My family is okay…we got power back three days after the hurricane hit, which saved Kathy’s tropical fish, and it did not go out again after that. We had hot water, so I was able to bathe, and they had plenty of food at the EOC, so I did not starve. Kathy had a pal across the park who did NOT lose power, so she moved the meats and perishables there. We are okay. South Jersey and Queens look like Berlin after the RAF got through with it in 1945.

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    • Marellus
      Oct 08, 2012 @ 12:57:17

      I like this comment.

      Like

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      • Kiwiwriter
        Oct 08, 2012 @ 16:07:39

        Thanks for saying so…

        I have Asperger’s. I automatically lose at the social game. I can’t tell anything that isn’t literal and clear. Can’t deal with hyperbole, facial expressions, sarcasm, and other lubricants of normal social interaction. I’m totally lost.

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  9. Omerta327
    Oct 06, 2012 @ 13:32:00

    My darling Neecy,

    You’ve proven to be such an inspiration to me since I first found this blog almost a year ago, that I wanted to show my love and appreciatiion by writing you a poem and posting it here for all the world to see. I hope you like it.

    Roses are red,
    Violets are blue,
    I suck at poems,
    Nice tits.

    You’re just dripping with carnal desire right now, aren’t you? 😉

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  10. KingsDaughter
    Oct 08, 2012 @ 02:36:11

    Hi Neecy,
    Sigh. Am glad you posted this. I was surprised at the way the conversation was shut down. I thought the posts on there were pretty constructive, genuine and varied, which a good thing in such discussions. I don’t get why the mods felt they had to “protect” the poster. Is he truly all that delicate? Why put the poem online in the first place if that is the case?

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    • Brenda55
      Oct 11, 2012 @ 17:13:20

      That mod would be me.
      As Neecy who is also a blog mistress will tell you that there is much that goes on behind the scenes when running a blog.

      Over at the site in question there are posts and communications that do not make it out for public consumption. We also hear from our blog readers re. content and style. Some complementary and some not. We are sensitive to our reader’s desires and work hard to give our readers the content they want in the tone they want to read it.

      Given that there are millions of other blog sites competing for eyeballs we would be remiss and foolish not listen to the people attached to those eyeballs who take the time to write us of their concerns and suggestions.

      When we get to a point where we ignore our customers then the the site will not be around long. And we will deserve not to be around.
      I hope this helps explain the decision to close down the thread in question.

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      • Neecy
        Oct 11, 2012 @ 18:33:27

        Hey Brenda!

        I understand. however, if you guys wanted to avoid any comments that were not going to be of the swooning nature, then just say it at the end of the post so people won’t post anything against the poster. I’m of the belief if you place certain content on an internet forum, be prepared for feedback that is not always going ot be of the agreeable nature.

        i feel as long as people are being respectful and tactful there is no need for anyone to get defensive or to shut down a conversation. Now rudeness and unecessary putting down of people is grounds for dismissal of course.

        i guess i just didn’t see where we were attacking him so that we had to be shut down.

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        • Brenda55
          Oct 11, 2012 @ 20:04:28

          We certainly do not shy away from heated discussion. With the revised terms of service Re. The Question of the Week threads any post that is less than respectful and tactful towards the originating poster will be removed but the Mod.

          Re. the shut down. I explained above. We made the call and stand by it.

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      • KingsDaughter
        Oct 12, 2012 @ 02:47:51

        I accept your explanation, Brenda. Thanks.

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    • Neecy
      Oct 11, 2012 @ 18:30:22

      I agre. Why allow a poem you wrote to a random woman you don’t know to be placed online if you are not going to be open to what people have to say? I think b/c as I pointed out, most guys assume that al women will swoon over these kinds of gestures and don’t realize the reality that not all women do. So he may have been a bit shocked that half the responses were not in the realm of thinking it was awesome he wrote a poem.

      I think more men need to understand the realities to protect themselves. Some women (who may not be creeped out) may take that as an opportunity to walk all over the guy b/c he comes off as a push-over supplicating to a woman.

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    • anoy
      Oct 13, 2012 @ 06:13:07

      And what scares me the most are these men who are so delicate that a few posts would scare them away from posting. If you can’t handle that, how are you going to be a man and handle the crazy things you may go through being married to a bw as a wm from the public?

      And you know how some of these bwe blogs are, say anything negative against the masses wm, and you get in trouble. Yet every other post is about how bw and bm are damaged. Smh

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      • Neecy
        Oct 13, 2012 @ 11:40:11

        EXACLY! If they can’t handle a little honest andrespectful push back on a blog what will hapoen when they are out amongst other people who are trying them about thier choice in mate?

        And one thing i can say about myself, I’m an equal opportunist in that i equallly will hold all groups responsible for bad behavior – even BW.

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  11. Trackback: Shy Guys Dont Always Have To Finish Last | Brandy & The Gang
  12. LynxViridis
    Oct 11, 2012 @ 02:47:08

    Like other commenters here I believe you did the right thing, allthough I know nothing about the tone, choice of words etc. I believe that you should take the opportunity to be honest and frank, allthoug polite and not unnecessarily rude while posting on the internet, especially if you’re doing it under a pseudonym like I am now. That’s one of the great things with internet forums, you can really be honest and get answers you wouldn’t get in real life. But this need not to stand out or say something that might hurt a little seems to stick, at least to women who post, even on the internet though it shouldn’t really have to.

    Writing poems to someone you have a romantic or sexual interest in and post it in a forum risks coming across as creepy, in my opinion. I would advice against it.

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    • Neecy
      Oct 11, 2012 @ 18:37:53

      Hey Lynx,

      Yes i agree that people can be frank and honest without being mean, rude or attacking a person. I believe if you have a blog or forum there are going ot be varying opinions nad sometimes the content will warrant the varying of opinions that maybe the author doesn’t want to hear. that doesn’t mean the commenters are in the wrong.

      i think in this case, the guy became defensive b/c he probably assumed all the comments and responses would be of women swooning over his poem. The fact is they weren’t, and many of us offered advice and why making poems may not be the best route. or even posting why overcoming the shyness aspect is going to be key for a future incident like this etc.

      Some women did say that shynbess in a man is not attractive, but that is still not rude – its the truth and I htink men need to hear all sides of the story b/c honestly, i believe a lot of men have been lied to about what women find desirable, b/c women feel that being nice is alway sbest instead of being HONEST in a tactful way.

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  13. LynxViridis
    Oct 11, 2012 @ 02:58:58

    “Writing poems to someone you have a romantic or sexual interest in and post it in a forum ”

    …should read:

    “Writing poems to someone you have a romantic or sexual interest in but have not even met IRL or have some kind of on-going relationship with, and post it in a forum “

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    • Neecy
      Oct 11, 2012 @ 18:38:51

      HEEEEY this is the Nest where gramatical errors, atrocious spelling and a whole other host of stuff is acceptable – especially if the blogstress herself is guilty of it! LOL

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  14. jillodelight
    Oct 13, 2012 @ 11:12:19

    I agree with what you said, about girls ultimately never taking this guy seriously (as in they wouldn’t actually date them). What I don’t get is how these guys don’t get it after so many “shy guy” acts fail. I was friends with a bunch of guys like this. Boy, all their gestures they saw as romantic, translated to downright creepy and the girls were turned off. Most of the girls saw how desperate they were and used them for sex, favors, and money: the girls still had them in friend zone mind you lol. It always awkward listening to them talk about girls they “loved” and yes, they wrote poetry and bought gifts for girls who saw them as nothing more than acquaintances.

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    • Neecy
      Oct 13, 2012 @ 11:37:27

      hey Jill!

      *sigh* this happens more than people are far willing to admit. That is why when I first started viewing those PUA and Game blogs that teach men how to *game* women, i was upset. but then i started to realize a lot of men are just clueless as to how to be successful with women. i do partly blame women b/c instead of women being honest they lie and tell men that stuff is attractive knowing deep down it isn’t going to get him very far but to the friend zone.

      And yes a lot of women use poor guys like this and the guys just keep doing the same stuff over and over again never learning. AT some point men need to take reponsibility for their lack of protecting thier best interests. A person can only do to you what you allow them too. I say the same to women who keep allowing men to get over onthem and use them – at *SOME* point you gotta start looking out for your best interests. if a person is not reciprocating, then its time to cut htem lose.

      But more men need to learn how to be charming without being supplicating to women. Charming get you far, supplicating gets you used.

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  15. Matt
    Oct 17, 2012 @ 15:56:37

    Neecy,

    No, you weren’t to hard on him. Even if this guy writes amazing poetry (I confess that I didn’t read it), it’s not something he should have done right away. Any amazing skills that a man has shouldn’t be employed right away when trying to attract a woman. It all comes off as creepy.

    While I (and probably most men) get irritated when I hear a woman say “MAN UP”, there is truth to it. If this guy was attracted to that girl, he should have just gone and spoken to her.

    I have to admit to being curious how somebody can be to shy to speak to another person, but not shy about composing a poem for the world to see and critique. That’s seems a bit backwards to me.

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    • Neecy
      Oct 17, 2012 @ 16:16:50

      HEY MATT! Is this my favorite MATT of old days or a new Matt?? lol

      Anyway, I agree that a man should save all of his charms and employ them as needed to build attraction on the woman’s part. Not to throw it all away on a woman he doesn’t even know. What if the woman didn’t turn out to be all that he expected b/c he didn’t make any kind of contact with her to even know if she was worth a poem. She could be a total B&^&% that would have been mean or rude. maybe she would have had really bad hygeine upon closer inspection. LOL WHO KNOWS! Save that energy for the woman you actually have at least spoken to and felt is worthy of you extending yourself. Extending yourself to women who you haven’t even spoke to sends a not-so-attractive message.

      If a man can save his energy on a woman that has reciprocated the same level of attraction in some form, it helps in building sexual tension and I believe I did a post last year on that. Sexual tension is not always about *SEX* perse but rather just about the idea of *increasing* attraction bit by bit.

      Anyway, I understand that it can be frustrating to hear women say “man up” but that is what it boils down to. Men just have to stop being AFRAID to do the most natural thing that a man can and should do – go after a woman he is attracted to. Of course he needs to maintain some limitations and not be overly aggressive, but men need to understand its human nature for them to be the hunter for the most part. Just as I would say women need to start being WOMEN and doing their part to help – by sending the subtle hints and non verbal cues to let a man know she too, has an interest.

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  16. Matt
    Oct 17, 2012 @ 23:41:31

    Old Matt.

    There’s another problem that you’ve not touched on. Let’s assume that each person
    has a set of skills. There’s the set that they use to make a living and another set
    that they use as a hobby. We’ll call the “make a living set” the “money set” and the
    rest the “hobby skills”.

    The money skills can attract a woman if a man is very good at what he does and
    he shows it effortlessly. If he has to work his ass off in order to get his job done,
    that’s not going to help him. But, if he just glides through his career and does very
    good work, women do take notice. For example, lots of women I know find many TV
    chefs attractive (ie. Bobby Flay, Guy Fieri, etc). Those men are attractive because
    of how good they are at their craft. Same goes for guys like Mike Rowe and Mike
    Holmes. These men know what they’re doing and exude a confidence while
    doing it. Hell, I’m an IT consultant and I get feminine attention because I’m very good
    at my job.

    The Hobby skills though is what most use to attract women. A man that has spent
    a lot of time learning to master a musical instrument, or carpentry, or art, or
    writing, or mechanics, etc. can attract women by showing how very good he
    is at that skill. It doesn’t matter what he’s good at, as long as he’s the best he can
    be at doing it. Roissy actually mentions this in his “Sixteen Commandments of
    Poon”, namely points 3 and 12.

    Now, the main point here is that a man has to show that he is good at something,
    without looking like he’s going for an “attaboy” from the lady he’s trying to attract.
    If you walk into a man’s apartment and see a piano, that’s infinitely more interesting
    than walking into his apartment and having him stare at you while he’s playing.
    One creates a mystery about his skill level and how to get him to speak about his
    hobby. The other smacks of a little boy trying to impress his mom.

    One of this guy’s problems is that the act of writing a poem to a woman, before
    he’s even spoken to her, shows that he needs her approval for what he is. That’s
    very bad. However, just that act also removes a lot of the mystery in getting to
    know him. Just knowing that he writes poetry means that she can infer
    (at the least) that:

    1. He reads a lot
    2. He’s likely educated to university/college level
    3. He’s likely introverted
    4. He’s more thoughtful and reflective than he is brash and active

    With those four points, she can decide whether that’s the kind of man she wants.
    The more information a woman gets about a guy, without having to work for it, the
    less likely she is to be interested in him.

    Also, about “MAN UP”. Man A telling man B to “Man Up” means that man B is
    doing something wrong and needs to sort himself out. It carries the unspoken
    point that if he doesn’t, he will be sorted out by man A or others. A woman telling
    man B to “MAN UP” usually means “Shut up and do what I tell you”. That’s why
    I find it irritating.

    Though in this case, somebody should smack that guy.

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  17. Zorro
    Oct 19, 2012 @ 13:34:10

    Writing poems is not such a bad idea, as long as you throw in a few stanzas about how much you will enjoy hauling her over your lap and going 50 Shades of Grey on her heiny.

    Women feel loved and cared for when they are getting their backside tanned. Male dominance translates very well via the buttocks.

    Observe:

    For every ship upon the sea
    And all the love I have for thee
    ’twere not for love that you will see
    Once you’re flopped over my knee
    and getting a taste of the slipper, Missy!

    Works every time. Drop the pretentious rhyming nonsense and let her know what’s in store for her the next time you catch her putting a metal kitchen utensil in one of your coated Cuisinart fry pans! Damned straight!

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  18. MK
    Oct 24, 2012 @ 02:26:18

    Everyone knows real men orbit with limmericks or haikus this guy was a total loser

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  19. Zorro
    Oct 25, 2012 @ 17:53:44

    Reply

  20. Socialkenny
    Feb 23, 2013 @ 15:46:57

    Wow, how unfortunate that I got linked to this article so late.

    As a PUA (instructor), I highly disagree with you as far as the so-called misinformation you referred to from what you’d seen on PUA forums.

    Your take is pretty humorous too opposed to offensive, but men do need to man up coming from a PUA’s standpoint.

    Like

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