WHAT IS WRONG WITH HYPERGAMY?

A recent situation with a friend who just got engaged made me think to write this post.

Do you all believe that women and men should look past  whether a person has the same religious, economic, educational things to have a wider net to cast for finding a partner?

How much should one  compromise on certain things for a relationship?

How much do opposites *REALLY* attract and do you believe that people who are generally opposites, stay together for long perids of time or more temporary time frames?

HYPERGAMY OR JUST HYPERCOMMONSENSE?

Why do some men balk at women who seek out partners that are either equal to or above themselves – especially in cases of financial?

It has always been said that men, no matter what will always innately seek out the most beautiful women they desire for wives and mates, while women will always seek out the best providers as husbands and mates.

While these days it is still widely accepted and promoted that men have the right to be guided by their eyes and pick women based on how attractive they are (and not be called all kinds of negative adjectives b/c of it), women still are fighting for that same adjectevless (HEY I MADE UP A NEW WORD!!!) status for seeking the best man.

“I AINT SAYING SHE A GOLDIGGA, BUT SHE AINT MESSIN WITH NO BROKE………”

UGH I hate Kanye West but I couldn’t resist! LOL

When women these days exercise their desires to seek men who are on the same level or better than they in financial arena they receive the label “goldigger” and “hypergamous”  simply for trying to seek out the best male partners possible.

How is this anymore “shallow” than what men desire in a mate almost ALWAYS first, in between and foremost which relies mostly in her PHYSICAL appearance. Physical appearance doesn’t really determine if that makes her a good woman, a good future prospect as a wife and mother etc. It just simply means she “looks good”. But usually this is the biggest biggest requirement most men seek first. Also, a man with financial means doesn’t mean he is also going to make a great husband or father either.

But when a woman seeks a man for things that will benefit himself, her and her offspring for the future, she is shallow? A man who is ambitious, a man that has a job, a man that is always seeking to better himself, goes deeper than just the surface. There are actual benefits to both parents bringing two EQUAL or better incomes to the table – unless one partner makes so much money that it doesn’t really matter if the other isn’t. This however does not apply for the AVERAGE people making average wages and salaries. Wealthy people play by a whole set of other rules.

The thing is men aren’t *GENERALLY* as against dating a woman of lower status than they are. But for women this could be disastrous!

This is not about seeking out RICH men or men with a lot of assets. Its about at MINIMUM seeking out a man that has close or equal to at least what you have or maybe even more. Does this mean that men should not also seek mates on somewhat of an equal footing? NO! Men should also seek females mates based on what she is bringing to the table OTHER THAN her looks.

What is wrong for  women finding men who are ambitious and who do well in their lives, as to make not only better partners but better fathers (if kids are desired) as the types of men they should want to be with, marry and have kids with? It is INNATE for a woman to seek these kinds of protections for her and offspring. Isn’t this practiced in the animal kingdom as well?.

MEN LOSE ENCOURAGEMENT TO DO WELL WHEN WOMEN ACCEPT “LESS THAN”

It has long been okay in the past that women be smart about the kinds of men they choose to date, marry and pro create with. Now that we are living in the days of EXTREME FEMINISM GONE WILD, we have more than enough women who settle for crappy mates, un ambitious men, losers with nothing going for themselves, men who don’t care to work, men who are pretty much not bringing anything to the table.

I also believe this encourages a lot of men to feel they don’t really have to do much or bring much to the table to get a woman. in the past no man would be able to LOOK at a woman unless he had a job and means and was ambitious. This encouraged men on a wider scale to do well b/c they would not be seen as viable mates or fathers unless they did well.

I know lately there has been a big ado about the lack of men in fields that they traditionally did well in – like manufacturing etc. We need men to always be encouraged b/c men build and create societies that prosper. if more men are not doing anything, society suffers! Don;t you think?

When you have a man like this and the woman is the opposite of all of those things, eventually he becomes resentful and in some ways feels emasculated (b/c he isn’t the breadwinner to he person bringing anything to the table) and the woman starts to also get resentful and see him as a leech or simply a man she just puts up with b/c maybe she doesn’t;t have any other options?

THIS HITS CLOSE TO HOME

I have known several women from friends and family who fit this profile. And they are MISREABLE and very insecure! ENough for me to say that it is a problem when a woman is *NOT* hypergamous b/c she and the male and any kids in that relationship all suffer. She starts feeling insecure and starts resenting that the man she is with is not able to provide AT least help her out, he starts feeling like he is getting his balls busted everyday by a woman who is doing more than he, and the kids see a lazy father an an insecure mother.

My aunt and her husband are a prime example. While I think he is a nice guy and loves her, I know she loves him too. But she is always bitching about him not working etc. Talk to him crazy at times.  I don’t take up for her b/c SHE CHOSE TO MARRY HIM THIS WAY. So guess what? SUCK IT UP! WOmen who make hasty decisions in who they marry and then later complain, I don’t feel sorry for them. They should have chosen better before the marriage. They believe suddenly a man is going to change after he gets married?  LOL

I have a friend who is about to be in this situation, and I am so afraid she will end up like the other women I know in bad marriages b/c of this.

She has been with her b/f for some years. This friend of mine is very ambitious and a go getter. She likes having a certain lifestyle and enjoys doing various things that require her to always be working and pulling in a decent income. Her b/f on the other hand – complete opposite.

He does have a job but he makes significantly less than she does and this is a problem b/c she carries the load.  if she were to lose her job tomorrow, they’d both be assed out – even though he has a job. They wouldn’t be able to stay in their apartment or even int he area they live.

She pays all the rent, bills while he contributes very little to their living and lifestyle. He is not very ambitious to get out there and try to make more money b/c he is comfortable with the fact that he knows she will be out there busting her ass to make ends meet for the both of them. IOW’s he is not really looking to move out of the low paying job he has been doing for the last few years to get something better. he’s also not college educated while she is.

Recently she started I guess making comments about being stressed financially and being irritable. I guess he started to feel like she was going to be moving on (b/c honestly she *CAN* do much better than he) so he pops the question to her for marriage. :rolls: UHM how you going to ask someone to marry you, and you cannot even contribute financially to the wedding or to your basic living expenses?????

So you would think this a time where most women are going to be screeching with delight that her b/f of umpteen years has proposed right? NO. She is absolutely miserable about it b/c now it has dawned on her that the weeding she wants is all going to be on her dime. She said she *ALWAYS* wanted a nice big wedding b/c she has lots of friends and family. Well the way things are looking, she won;t be able to get that big wedding unless she can pull money out of her asscrack, off a tree or hit the lottery.

She doesn’t make a boatload of money, but if she were single she wouldn’t have much of the strain she is now bc she is pretty much taking care of two people.

 

She also really loves him and doesn’t want to feel like b/c he is not making a lot of money that he is not good enough. But frankly, I feel that people lose that love after awhile when they feel strain of always carrying the load. Something she doesn’t seem to understand that can happen down the line. I just feel why put yourself in an even more strainful situation like marriage to a person who cannot even contribute to your basic living expenses and who is not even ambitious enough to see that he needs to be doing more to help THE BOTH OF YOU financially.

I don’t say anything to her about him b/c honestly some people are just happy in these kinds of situations or they just do not have the guts to move on. But I have seen this scenario play out with more than a few couples I knew. All I said to her is that if you marry him, then its not fair to just up and leave the marriage bc you already knew what you were getting into before you married him. SO basically i was telling her she better think hard b/c once you marry its a whole different ball game and its not as simple as walking out b/c of things like this that you knew BEFOREHAND.

Anyway, how do you guys feel about this? Does money matter in a relationship? Is it very important that two people in a relationship at least be on the same level education wise, ambition wise, financial wise?

Should men also be very wary about women who make significantly less than they or who are of lower status?

Me personally, I would rather be single than to deal with a stressful situation like that. How about you?

So much for one to two paragraphs, but you gotta admit this is pretty short FOR NEECY for a discussion topic 😀

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86 Comments (+add yours?)

  1. authoratw
    Jan 25, 2013 @ 10:09:10

    With today’s economy, you may find yourself single for a long time. I also think that relationships and family building are based on “for better or for worse,” and if you have a quality individual who is committed to you and to making your relationship work, as well as working toward creating a great life together, then the other factors weigh differently. Would love for you to check out my blog if you have a chance. http://www.theweddingplanbook.com.
    Great post. Interesting topic.
    Cheers

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    • Neecy
      Jan 25, 2013 @ 10:20:10

      Hey there Author!!

      I agree that love and companionship are much greater than the $$$ that one is bringing to the table. But on a more basic practicle level money matters when two people are involved bc we are now dealing with TWO PEOPLE and not just one – not to mention possible future offspring who need BITH parents to be able to contribute to a decent lifestyle and well being that requires financial independence of some sort.

      But let’s not kid ourselves and say that financial reasons are NOT one of the BIGGEST reasons couples break up and have stress in their relationships no matter how much they love each other. Of course the only time this doesn’t seem to matter so much is when one partner makes so much money that it doesn’t matter if the other person doesn’t make any money.

      Yes I realize we live in a tough economy. But ambitious people will always make things work. Its much different having a partner who may not have a job (b/c they lost it), but b/c of their education and previous work history its not a matter of them not working or contributing b/c they are not ambitious, but rather b/c they may have lost a job. In due time however, that person will eventually get on their feet. Its just a matter of time.

      I am talking about men or women who just really can’t and refuse to bring much more to the table b/c they are lazy or lack ambition to DO BETTER. People who get comfy with their S/O always carrying the load. I would never want anyone to feel they are carrying a load with me.

      Not everyone is always at the prime situation finically. But I feel if one is working to do their best to “GET THERE” it says a lot about their potential and character. If a person just gets comfy with one partner always carrying the load, and they see how stressful it is for the partner, I feel if they love them they will do whatever it takes to hep them reduce the strain and load.

      if they are SELFISH and somewhat entitled or too comfortable, they will continue to believe that they are not part of the problem and will hold the person carrying the load accountable in the sense that they are being “materialistic” even though that person is literally taking care of them.

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      • authoratw
        Jan 25, 2013 @ 10:28:13

        I do agree to the extent that you have to protect yourself from being used and abused by somebody who’s trifling. lol so, yeah. I just think that,particularly with African Americans, we have distorted ideas about what marriage is, what a relationship takes, and the amount of energy, work and sacrifice it requires.

        Character assessment and motive are the first things to discern when dealing with a romantic interest… well, heck, when dealing with anyone. Working your way out of a toxic relationship is a whole ‘notha topic. smh. but I like to keep the dialogue going because I think it is helpful and much needed.

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        • Neecy
          Jan 25, 2013 @ 10:41:31

          Character assessment and motive are the first things to discern when dealing with a romantic interest…

          Completely agree. I think that relationships (GOOD SOLID ONES) rely on a whole host of things besides the pretentious stuff. And sometimes the financial topic can be pretentious with certain individuals who see it soley about FINANCIAL and nothing more.

          Part of character assessment means understanding that sometimes great differences *CAN* work but oftentimes don’t. Just because someone is not on the same path, level as you doesn’t mean they are beneath you. But it can mean that you may not have much in common either which CAN and will lead to issues down t he road.

          All relationships are going to have challenges just by matter of having two individual people involved. But why add to the challenges starting at the gate with someone who is on a different mindset than you?

          I see waaaaay too many people in situations they regret b/c they didn’t think.

          I feel too many people jump into relationships later to find themselves STUCK and like you said trying to get out of a toxic relationships is a true obstacle for a lot of people, so a lot of times they just stay in them. But if people took stock of things and really asked themselves what is important to them before being with a person, they’d avoid these situations.

          My friend is now having that unfortunate experience at this point. WHy wait till it gets to this point to start recognizing what has been in front of your face for YEARS?? Now she feels like its too hard to turn back b/c she has been with him so long. She is even resentful towards her mother b/c she knows her mother is lying when she says she doesn’t have any money to give her for the wedding. Basically her mother feels she can do better and doesn’t feel she should have to contribute when he hasn’t done anything t help my friend over the years.

          Later people blame the person they chose which i don;t think is fair. If you chose to marry someone you KNEW didn;t have all of the qualities you needed then its YOUR FAULT and not theirs IMO.

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          • Dave
            May 28, 2013 @ 10:20:41

            From now on for me, a woman has to also bring something to the table as well! If she doesn’t and has a whole host of big financial and credit problems, with no assets to boot, then she will always be a leach….plain and simple, regardless of how great her ass looks! Lol!

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      • Dave
        May 28, 2013 @ 10:18:38

        From now on for me, a woman has to also bring something to the table as well! If she doesn’t and has a whole host of big financial and credit problems, with no assets to boot, then she will always be a leach….plain and simple, regardless of how great her ass looks! Lol!

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        • Dave
          May 28, 2013 @ 10:25:29

          BTW. I once dated a woman who, unknown to me until I did a background check on her, owed the IRS like $45,000 and the state of Maryland like $12000 in back taxes! That explained why she lived with her sister for so long and was so eager to have sex! Lol!

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    • Neecy
      Jan 25, 2013 @ 10:27:53

      BTW, I do date and have no problem finding men who are at least equal to me or on the same level mentally, ambitious wise, etc..

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  2. Ray
    Jan 25, 2013 @ 12:23:24

    Neecy baby, I thought we were going to keep our love affair secret? Don’t put our business in the street, sweetie! I’ll be home soon, wear that sexy red number you wore last Saturday! LOL!!

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  3. Alee
    Jan 25, 2013 @ 14:01:10

    Men don’t like hypergamy because they don’t want to compete for fear they won’t win. The men who have means don’t want to lose them to some women who is out for their money and/or don’t want someone who mainly/only desires them for their financial assets (ironically, many of these men also desire women for a superficial asset: beauty)

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    • Neecy
      Jan 27, 2013 @ 09:43:00

      Yes exactly. Although what is funny is many men with means like to usually flaunt that in some way – TO GET the best looking most sought after women. So its like they don’t want to be judged by their assets and wealth, but at the same time that is what they use to get what they want in terms of women.

      Its like a woman dressing up very sexy and then says she doesn’t want anyone to judge her by her looks or what she is wearing. Well if you flaunt certain things to get attention, don’t act surprised when you get that attention.

      But I understand the basis of some men who feel that they do not want to have to compete with other men who are more ambitious and more successful and I also understand that there are men who just want to be loved and appreciated for who they are and not what they have.

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  4. Ray
    Jan 25, 2013 @ 15:55:05

    I think dating and/or marriage has been an exercise in shallow 101! To be blunt, men try to get the most attractive and youngest woman that their status will allow and women try to get the best provider their looks can attract! Lately though as more women are getting to be the major breadwinners, they are going after these little boytoys at a similar rate as men pick up their young gold diggers! An example would be JLO and her wet benind the ears choreographer!
    Mating today seems more like a negotiation that falling in love. Which is a shame because it’s not a level playing field! the person that brings looks to the table will continue to get older and their looks will fade, while generally the rich one will continue to get richer! Eventually they look across the table at the “pretty” one and feel like someone isn’t holding up their end of the bargain! Next thing you know? Divorce court, where the rich one will proceed to find one younger and prettier to replace the old one!
    I’ve dated some up to ten years younger and ten years older than me! I just want someone I’m compatible with, that has a similar sense of humor and makes and tries to keep me happy and I’ll make the same effort for her! There’s a waitress that I flirt with all the time (she’s either black or mixed and beautiful) that’s about twenty-five years younger and I’m thinking about asking her out but the age difference does bother me (her father is the same age as me)! She’s very receptive to my flirtations but I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t last! Welllll, maybe long enough for a trip to Vegas!! LOL!

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    • Neecy
      Jan 27, 2013 @ 09:47:30

      I agree that marriage these days is not always about being with the *RIGHT* person, but rather thinking that your partner has to be the perfect person and then later finding that you are married to a human being and therefore, they will never be perfect.

      Yes marriage these days is shallow in a lot of instances but mainly because people do not marry the best PEOPLE for themselves anymore. I say that in the sense that people will marry someone for silly reasons although they and that person may not really have anything in common, or they have been going through the motions for years, or the person is toxic but looks good, or one person is ambitious and aways looking to better themselves while the other person just is happy with being mediocre.

      This is why I say that women who marry men they know weren’t coming with certain attributes, pretty much can’t say anything b/c they jumped into a marriage without really asking themselves if this is a person they can be with comfortably and grow with.

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  5. Marellus
    Jan 25, 2013 @ 23:55:44

    Great post Neecy.

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  6. Matt
    Jan 26, 2013 @ 00:47:27

    Neecy,

    Hypergamy, like anything else, is not inherently bad. In fact, I’d argue that under “normal” (as in, past) circumstances, it was a good thing. The problem is that, like most things right now, it has been warped and perverted for other purposes.

    Hypergamy BECOMES a nasty, detrimental beast when it is paired with two other events, namely:
    1. Quick, easy, judgement free Divorce
    2. The promise that there is going to be something better waiting when she splits.

    Point 1 means that divorce can be filed for very easily with no other reason than “I love him/her, but I’m not in love with him/her”. Ignoring the financial aspects of this (while they are relevant here, that’s a whole other topic), it means that both partners can easily split should they decide (delude themselves?) that they can get something better.

    Point 2 is endemic to our current culture. Advertising and the global communications revolution have combined to convince people that there is always something better just around the corner. Don’t like your current car? Well you DESERVE a NEWER, BETTER ONE! The trouble with this is obvious. A partner or spouse becomes disposable since the moment they displease us, we’re convinced there’s a better one around the corner. Why bother trying to work out the problems when our “Soul MATE” could be just around the corner?!

    To bring this back to hypergamy, the end result is that it never stops. Hypergamy is intended to drive a woman to the best man she could find. But now, with Points 1 and 2 in place, it means that she will never have a reason to curb or containt that impulse. It becomes a never ending quest to always find a better mate. Once a mate has been selected, maturity is supposed to take over in order to build a deep, lasting relationship with them. But the promise of something better and the drive to find it means that that can never happen. Why build or develop what you have when something even better is just out of reach?

    The feeling of never being satisfied also becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy since her hypergamic (I hope that’s a word) tendencies will reduce her desire or ability to bond with her current mate. So it goes around and around until she either comes to her senses and settles with whomever she has, or finds herself alone and miserable after her divorce.

    Preemptively, yes this effects men to. Though it’s to late for me to go into how.

    Happy new year, Neecy.

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    • Ray
      Jan 26, 2013 @ 05:27:32

      Sounds so romantic doesn’t it? I mean who couldn’t make a Lifetime Original movie out of that? We have become so jaded about finding someone to love us for us! I don’t think we should make divorcing harder, though. There is probably nothing worse than being in a loveless marriage but I do think people should have counseling before they get divorced, and not by a religion based counselor. I have nothing against religion but your marriage isn’t going to be miraculously saved by going to church more often or having more faith in God! An extra $10 in the collection plate isn’t going to make your spouse any more attractive or cohabitation any easier. You need somebody that is professionally trained in counseling!
      I, personally think people should be at least 25 before they venture into wedlock. Teenage marriage should be outlawed! As much as kids think they know it all, lets face it, they are too immature to make such a life changing decision! If the love is there it will be there when they’re twenty-five, if it can’t last through 5 years of dating, what hope do they have for a lifetime commitment? But, like I said that’s just my personal opinion!
      I think a happy marriage is like anything worth pursuing, you’re going to get out of it what you put into it! It takes both people nurturing the relationship to make it last. The mighty oak was once a fragile sapling that had to treated with loving care!

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    • Neecy
      Jan 27, 2013 @ 10:08:59

      MAAAAAATTTTT!!!!!!! Hi darlin! Happy new Year!

      Well as always you do bring some realities to this issue. And its very true that a lot of people in general these days simply aren’t satisfied and are always looking for the HOLY GRAIL even though that doesn’t exist. I admit I am always seeking the holy grail with make-up and skin care products 😀

      But is that hypergamy we are talking about with people or women who are always searching for something better? To the point they sabotage good relationships and good people to seek what they feel it is they are missing?

      I think what you are illustrating are women who have a serious issue that goes beyond hypergamy – they are immature and unrealistic and probably seriously bi polar amongst other things. I think its normal for every human being to have an idea of the “perfect person” but when they seek that relentlessly while sabotaging great relationships and partners they have or even remaining single for long periods of time b/c they are seeking the “perfect person” , then that goes waaay beyond the basics of what hypergamy is really about and starts to cross the line of emotional issues.

      Also, I feel that most people who are always seeking something better are usually not “better” or on the level it is they seek in other people. That is usually why they aren’t satisfied b/c they cannot realize that what they are seeking or demanding better they themselves, usually aren’t bringing that to the table and thus, will never find that person and always be lookign at who they are with as the one lacking and not themselves?

      There are just simply people like this who are never happy b/c they have some mental or emotional issue that makes them feel like they are always missing out on something better. I think this is real but I also think that is as real as sometimes people make hasty bad decisions in mates and then realize later they could have and should have done better for the long term.

      So there are two extremes to this that I personally see these days.

      I think as many people there are that are always seeking better, there are just as many people who also settle for less and suffer b/c of that.

      There has to be a middle happy ground where someone can pick the best person so that later on they do not feel they have settled.

      With hypergamy I think the basic idea is that a woman seeks the best mate possible, but UNDERSTANDS that there will never be the perfect person and if you can get even remotley close to all of the REALISTIC qualities you seek in a person, and they have them, that you pretty much do not need anything else.

      But you are right in that we live in a society where there is never enough and always “something better”.

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  7. Ray
    Jan 26, 2013 @ 10:16:37

    I do believe though, that you should try to find someone within your social circle (caste) or a little above it, because people have gotten too materialistic today! My mother would have smacked me if I asked for money to buy a $6.00 latte. I could hear her now, “SIX BUCKS FOR COFFEE?” WHACK!!!!!!! lol!

    He should have enough ambition to excell in his profession, but too much ambition can result in some very lonely nights and weekends! No problem though right ladies? You’ll have is money to snuggle up with at night!

    On the other hand, ladies, if your looks are all you’re bringing to the relationship, I suggest you keep a good plastic surgeon on speed dial! There will be plenty of pretty younger things nipping at your high heels!

    If you’re just another Anna Niclole Smith, out there looking for some geriatric rich old guy, you’re pretty pathetic! Then again if some wealthy old wrinkled dude thinks a twenty something year old is going to love him for his charm and good looks, he better be checked for alzheimers fast!
    I guess I’m getting cynical in my old age but one decent warm hearted woman could probably turn that around! Wish me luck!

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    • Neecy
      Jan 27, 2013 @ 10:14:38

      I do believe though, that you should try to find someone within your social circle (caste) or a little above it,

      That is my philosophy. i have stated many times in previous posts that I believe that people should stay in their lanes for the most successful relationships. Too many times people who aren’t even on a certain level are always seeking others who are on a different level and that creates imbalances MOST times in relationships in where one person is aways seen as above while the other is sen as beneath.

      In the past most marriages and relationships were between people who were on t he same level of some sort. They either came from the same social backgrounds, wealth, education, family structures etc.

      I also believe that people should try to stick as closely to the same level of attractiveness as well to avoid feelings of inferiority adn superiority in the relationship. And sometimes when a person is significantly less attractive than their partner feelings of resentment can occur on either side. People start becoming insecure b/c they feel they cannot hold onto that person and they typically can become OBSESSED – if they are not bringing something equal in a sense.

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  8. Marellus
    Jan 26, 2013 @ 10:23:45

    Another perspective :

    “I don’t get you, TN. Not at all. And I think you like that. Are you a Sadist? Do you like confusing me?”

    “No, not at all.”

    “Then why are you so mysterious all the time??”

    “I’m not sure,” was his honest answer. We sat in silence for a beat or two.

    “Do you know why I date other men??” He shook his head. “To replace you.” He looked at me with a surprised question in his eye. “Yes, the only reason I attempt to date is to find someone like you, but who wants me like I want him. You have this engineered plan for you life — which is your right entirely — and I don’t fall into that box so you’re going to just pass me up. How are you going to feel in 5 years? Will you be happy with your decision?”

    He said he thought so. “The thing is, Hy, I want to find my life partner now. Sure, I don’t want to get married or have kids for at least another 5 years, but I want to find her now. And as soon as I reach my goal weight this is going to end. I’m going to start looking for her. And if I go on 14 dates with someone and never even fuck her, the day I actually want to go on that 14th date is when you and I have to stop.”

    He’s 4 lbs away from his goal.

    “I think I’m the best girlfriend you’ve never had.”

    “You’re probably right.”

    “But I don’t have any idea how you really feel about me. I know you like me, but that’s all I know.”

    “I more than like you, Hy. I care about you.”

    “I don’t know the difference.”

    “I like Kristine. But I care about you.” The distinction is a significant one for us, she’s the girl-friend-who-wouldn’t-touch-him.

    “Thanks for telling me. I never knew for sure. You also need to think about what you’re going to tell your girlfriend about me. If you want me in your life at all, you can’t tell her we slept together. Ever. She won’t allow us to be friends.”

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    • Neecy
      Jan 27, 2013 @ 10:18:56

      Interesting!

      I think it is just human nature at times to believe there is a perfect person and a perfect “time”.

      i notice he kept saying “when I reach my goal weight I’m oging to….”

      That is just how so many people think. I am so glad that I have in the last year come to the realization that there is NEVER a perfect time for anything. You either do it then and there and stop wasting time b/c there will always be excuses or another “issue” that you have to overcome when that “perfect time” does come.

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      • Marellus
        Jan 28, 2013 @ 10:01:18

        … ultimately Neecy, there is a difference between the one we want, and the one we really need. We live for the dream, and die in our realities. We’d rather chase than settle. We’d rather be without the prize, and chase it … than be the judge, and measure it.

        We live on hope. We die for a belief. We deplore our critics.

        We are human.

        It’s the unattainable that inspires our foolhardiness.

        And the unmentionable that conspires with our foolishness.

        All this. because of that which we cannot have, but desire … and love that makes us all, mocks us all … and mucks it all.

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        • Neecy
          Jan 28, 2013 @ 19:13:46

          YEP. And I love “and mucks us all”. AWESOME!! and so true.

          But I like to think people are more realistic than their idealism. The average person should understand and be able to decipher realism from idealism.

          We can all want for the perfect anything. But I wanna believe that the average person has enough brain matter and experience to understand the realities, that there is no perfect person but rather THE BEST PERSON.

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  9. Ray
    Jan 26, 2013 @ 12:11:36

    Very interesting post! You do have a way of finding the good stuff! I’ll have to invest more time in reading the responses later! I’m spending the afternoon cleaning out my garage.

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  10. Ray
    Jan 26, 2013 @ 13:13:14

    Sigh. Neecy dear I guess we’re going to have to ween you off slowly! Interesting topic though! Especially after half of us had to google up what hypergamy meant! LOL!!!

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    • Neecy
      Jan 27, 2013 @ 10:20:36

      Yeah. I’m going to have to ween off slwoly on being a war and peace post wirer. But if I stay focused, the posts will become shorter and shorter over time. hey this is a LIFESTYLE CHANGE, and we all know that takes time 😉 Its like the person who looses a bunch of weight quickly gains it back while the person who does it slowly usually keeps it off b/c they did it the right way. Same applies here no? LOL

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  11. Omerta327
    Jan 27, 2013 @ 15:56:00

    Wow. lots to chew on here, Neece.

    What’s wrong with hypergamy? Nothing in and of itself. Hypergamy isn’t wrong, nor is it right, it just IS. The only thing wrong with it is that guys by and large aren’t taught that it even exists.

    Lots of guys are taught growing up that you just need to be a good guy, work hard, “be yourself” (ugh), and you’ll find a girl you can be happy with. While women do appreciate those things, what they don’t tell you – or conveniently leave out – is that women really appreciate those qualities in strong, masculine men – the kind of men they’re already attracted to. That’s the disconnect – guys aren’t taught to be strong and masculine, and that ends up being their failing.

    The truth is, it’s NOT enough to just be a good provider and father, you’ve got to have those strong masculine qualities to keep yourself desirable in your wife’s or LTR’s eyes. Persolally, I think that’s what hypergamy is really all about. It’s not so much about providing resources, although that does play a good-sized role, as it is about attraction and desire. Sure, women want a guy with equal or greater status than themselves, but in the end, it all comes down to the ‘gina tingles. If a guy makes a woman hot and horny, she don’t give a rat’s ass about his status – short term, anyway.

    “MEN LOSE ENCOURAGEMENT TO DO WELL WHEN WOMEN ACCEPT “LESS THAN””

    True, but this goes both ways. If a woman is a 250 lb fat gravy-sweating land whale, is she going to be motivated to better herself and lose weight if she’s still getting male attention / sex? No, because she’s found men who will accept “less than”. Granted, these will be some serious bottom of the barrel dudes, but like we’ve said on this blog many times before, water has a tendency to find it’s own level. Same principle.

    As for your friend, wow. She’s miserable cuz she’s gonna marry a man she secretly resents who only asked her to marry him out of fear of losing her. 😯 Yikes. The kinda stuff little girls dream about, huh? I can’t imagine for the life of me why she said yes. Is she being pressured by her family to settle down and get married? She’s obviously not happy about it, so why do it?

    What you told her was absolutely right – she knows exactly what the deal is, and yet she’s entering into it willingly. God only knows why. And as for gold diggers, well that goes both ways, too. If a wealthy, affluent man marries a woman that ends up just being in it for the money, well then hey, he should’ve known better. I think in most cases these men know EXACTLY what they’re getting into and yet they still turn a blind eye.

    “Anyway, how do you guys feel about this? Does money matter in a relationship? Is it very important that two people in a relationship at least be on the same level education wise, ambition wise, financial wise?”

    All that matters to a degree. I think it all comes down to desire. Couples need to look at their SO’s and ask, “Do I want to continue to fvck this person?” If yes, all that other stuff will go on the back burner. If no, then all that other stuff become much bigger issues, maybe too big to be resolved.

    Holy crap, I’m almost as wordy as you. 😎

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    • Neecy
      Jan 28, 2013 @ 19:19:42

      Omerta,

      You hit something which is very true. Women do want those things buy only in a man they love, respect and are attracted to. And while I know that it has been proven that women may generally give into men who make the gina tingle that has proven to be disaterous for them in the long haul. hence why so many women SETTLE. They are simply settling on the guy who gets her juices flowing but is not doing much more than that. But the flip side of that too is the woman who settles for the man with means ONLY for his means and nothing else and she has also settled.

      I am advocating for a woman to make the BEST choice for herself. But to not be foolish and make a decision based on fleeting things or fear of simply walking away b/c you feel obligated to a person even though you know you are not happy with most of what they are contributing or not to the relationship.

      I feel my friend in some ways feels OBLIGATED to her fiance b/c they have been together for so long. She has made many comments that lead me to believe that. i think too many people make decisions like that and are not looking at the future and down the road. How many relationships break up down the road over things that could have been addressed before jumping into marriage thinking the piece of paper was going to somehow resolve that big pink elephant they didn’t want to address.

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      • omerta327
        Jan 29, 2013 @ 08:25:51

        Damn, Neece. Your friend “feels obligated”? WTF??? You drop by your friend’s Super Bowl party even tho you know it’ll be lame because you “feel obligated” – you don’t friggin’ MARRY someone because you “feel obligated”. Holy sh!t, that’s just insane. I’d love to see them exchange vows.

        “Do you, take this man, to be your lawfully wedded husband?”

        “*sigh* Yeah, sure, I guess so…”

        And what’s their wedding song gonna be? “Ain’t Nothing Going On But the Rent”?

        “I am advocating for a woman to make the BEST choice for herself.”

        IOW’s, find their ‘monkey in the middle’. 😎

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        • Neecy
          Jan 30, 2013 @ 22:29:13

          Yes its painful to see a friend in this situation. I am the kind of person that tries not to butt in b/c I feel that people need to make their own decisions. I would hate to tell someone to not do something and then they later regret it. All I can do is try in a *gentle* way to make her think very hard about what she is doing without making her feel that I am trying to diss him or just make her feel bad.

          I’m just afraid that she is not getting the best she could – at least not from him. But what can one do, but try to be as supportive as possible. So myself and another close friend of ours are both trying to *gently* give her some common sense talks but not completely saying she should not do something. We just want her to be happy.

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  12. neurochick
    Jan 28, 2013 @ 12:05:40

    This is very interesting.

    I have a friend who married a man who wasn’t and still isn’t ambitious. She did not want an ambitious man because of her own health issues. She said that if she met a man who was very successful and a hard worker, he might start to resent her because she wouldn’t be able to work as hard, she’d need a nap, or would only be able to work part time. Now this woman is very smart and believe it or not, so far it does work, (they’ve been together for nearly 20 years).

    I think a woman needs to ask herself what does SHE want and or need in a man (assuming we’re talking about a heterosexual woman of course). If you want an ambitious man, then don’t settle for one who you’re going to resent. Remember though, expectations are nothing more than resentments waiting to happen.

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    • Neecy
      Jan 28, 2013 @ 19:25:33

      I agree and that is what I am TRULY advocating for. For a woman to be CONTENT in her choice. my friend is NOT content with her fiance’s lack of ambition b/c the other day she came right out and told me she had a discussion with him about the wedding and his lack of ambition over the years.

      my aunt is NOT content with her husbands lack of ambition b/c its a burden on her financially. How do I know this, b/c I hear it every other week from her complaints, and venting.

      A lot of Black women who did not vet their mates properly are left holding the fiancial bag and raising kids when she could have demanded more instead of settling.

      No one can deny that more than ever today a lot of women are settling.

      The point is many women are NOT making the best choices for themselves. There are more women today who settle for men with lack of ambition and they are not happy with it. If a woman states this is not what she wants, she gets called or viewed as a “goldigger” or hypergamous (in the wrong way).

      And that is why I made this post. My friend feels “GUILTY” for feeling that she wants her future husband to be bringing something more than what he is. WHY should she feel this guilt? Its a natural feeling that most women have so they avoid carrying the burden of raising a family by themselves hen they may not even be making a salary high enough to support such a lifestyle.

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      • neurochick
        Jan 30, 2013 @ 09:01:47

        This is very true. No one should feel guilty for wanting to take care of themselves. The reason women have to take care as to who they marry is because for the most part, women are the ones who have to do the bulk of the child rearing. Now it’s one thing if a man is willing to say, “well I’ll stay home and cook and clean and take care of the child while you work,” nothing wrong with that, in fact that IS ambition IMO. But if a man is just going to sit around and pretend to be an artist (I had one of those but thank goodness we never married!), that’s another story.

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        • Neecy
          Jan 30, 2013 @ 22:34:09

          LOL Neurochick at the dude that was an “artist”. HAHA!!

          Its true. That is why I say it can be disaterous for a woman to not make a good choice in who she marries b/c if they decide to have children and she is the one carrying the load, she’ll be struggling and will be resentful and stop respecting her husband.

          Like you said, if its a situation where the roles are reversed and he may not bring home the bacon but he is taking the load off of her in other ways like housework, taking care of kids etc., I guess that can work in the right coupling.

          But honestly I do not think that *always* works. I do think men start feeling “less than a man” if he is left doing traditional “woman” things like being a stay at home dad. But then I have seen cases where some men do well in that role.

          It really boils down to finding a person that is bringing SOMETHING to the table. That both people are working together to create the best life possible for themselves without one person always carrying the load while the other person does nothing.

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  13. Ray
    Jan 28, 2013 @ 13:08:54

    That’s true! There are plenty of miserable women married to rich guys! If your looking for another JR Ewing, you have to accept all it entails. The lonely nights and weekends and the mistresses on the side! If a guy is ultra ambitious that trait usually extends beyond the boardroom and into the bedroom (usually belonging to the girl half your age and size that he plans on replacing you with))! You should want someone with a good work ethic that wants to excel, someone who wants to do things to please you but that doesn’t have to mean bottles of Dom Perignon and Kobe beef! Neurochick is right, each person has different needs! There’s an old saying, “Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it!”

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    • Neecy
      Jan 28, 2013 @ 19:29:45

      But Ray this is not about RICH MEN! I had a feeling that someone would walk away thinking that is what this post was about. Maybe I could have layed out my thoughts and ideas much clearer on my point, but its clear that what I am saying is a woman should not be made to feel guilty for wanting a partner that is bringing EQUAL or better to the table. not for superficial materialistic reasons. but for the simple fact that in this economy these days its very difficult to rasie a family on one persons average salary.

      A lot of women (like my friend) feel guiitly when the reality hits them, that they are seriously looking at a lifetime with a person who is not able to contribute to helping their lifestyle and family on a financial aspect. that it is “all on her” and that if something were to happen to her or her job, they’d be in a whole load of trouble. Not to mention once kids become involved this burden becomes an even bigger issue.

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      • Ray
        Jan 29, 2013 @ 09:11:01

        Logically I see your point but is it wrong to want a relationship with someone who wants me out of love? I want to know that if the finances get cut off tomorrow you won’t pack your bags because I can’t get you that chanel bag you want! I can understand women trying to find a guy of equivalent or slightly higher status, it’s perfectly logical that a woman would expect her man to bring something to the table! After all, if they want kids they need to make sure hes going to be able to provide the neccessities for them!

        On the other hand, how much is enough? We live in a society now where people want to use fictional characters (like Gordon Gekko and JR Ewing) to justify their “the end justifies the means” mentality, where we make clebrities out of golddigging bimbos like Anna Nicole Smith! Too many of this generation do not understand that “greed” is one of the 7 deadly sins! Perhaps its too many rap videos filled with “bling” and advocating women be treated like “hoes” that give young people a false sense of values! All the athletes and rappers in the world combined aren’t worth what doctors, firefighters, policemen, teachers or more contribute to society! More money doesn’t make you better!

        I made a decent living while I was working (good enough to take an early retirement), own my home outright I have a healthy 401K program, and go on nice vacations twice a year. Sure I have an ex wife but no alimony and no kids. I’m not rich but I am comfortable and I’m a happy camper because now I can pursue the writing career I’ve always wanted! Yet, many of the women I’ve dated recently see me as a human ATM. I’m picking up the tab when we go out, but it’s not my responsibility as your date to pay for the babysitter or make your car note or rent payment this month! Perhaps that’s why this topic sours me!

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        • Neecy
          Jan 30, 2013 @ 22:41:28

          My question to you Ray is maybe you are looking at the wrong kinds of women when it comes to relationships? This is where it is also important for a man to make the best choices in women. If you look out for women who have something in common with you, or who have their own or who are on the same level as you (if that is important), you wouldn’t run into these kinds of women looking for a meal ticket.

          There are 2 kinds of women in this area of hypergamy.

          1) The women who don’t really have much and who are always looking for a man to fill that financial gap in their life. (This sounds like the women you may be running into)

          2) Then there are women who are doing find on their own and just want a man that is bringing the SAME or better to the table so that she is not taking care of some man looking to be lazy and get a meal ticket from a woman who is doing all of the work.

          Some men prefer to be the financial breadwinner and do not mind that the woman makes less than they do. But for men like this they cannot always walk around thinking some woman is out to get their money. They just have to choose as best they can.

          Then there are men like yourself who maybe need a woman that is bringing equal to the table so that you do not feel “used”?

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  14. Ray
    Jan 28, 2013 @ 13:31:03

    Men don’t usually care how much money a woman makes (unless he’s a gigolo) our shallowness is all about the looks! Womens shallowness is basically financially driven (can he afford to give me everything I want?). I have never been out with the guys where any of them worried about what the cute girl at the bar did for work! If you’re attractive, we don’t care if you clean toilets for a living! The only turnoffs for us is whether you’re high maintenance or a negative bit*h or have a foul mouth in public (the bedrooms okay, actually we give you points for the foul mouth during sex!)

    On a blind date the first thing guys ask is “What does she look like?” Whereas, whenever a girl gets set up, usually the first question she asks is “What does he do for a living?”
    A guy could be 5 feet tall, bald with a lackluster personality but if he brings home a 6 figure salary there will be a woman that will marry him!

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    • Neecy
      Jan 28, 2013 @ 19:32:43

      I agree. Women can be just as shallow about a man with money and assets as men can be with women about looks.

      But there comes a point int he road where neither has to be shallow as long as they are both realistic and comng from a place of seekign what is best for them and not what is PERFECT.

      I see nothing wrong with a man or woman wanting to be attracted to thier partner. Of course this means you have to judge by looks. But its only a problem when a man or woman expects those looks to literally represent all of the other qualities and potential that person has to being to a solid partnership.

      Same with money. nothing wrong with a woman wanting a man that ahs some ability to provide on a comfrotable level. But when it simply becomes about how much money he has and not his character and how he treats her, then that is a problem.

      There is a happy medium on both ends 😀

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    • Sophia
      Jan 30, 2013 @ 18:58:44

      It’s a matter of class though. Lots of upper middle class professional will not marry someone uneducated. She might not make as much money as him but there has to be at least similarity in values. I don’t know of lawyers or doctors who marry waitresses. At least not in this up and coming generation.

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      • Neecy
        Jan 30, 2013 @ 22:46:16

        HEY SOPHIA HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!

        And yes EXACTLY what you said. Most men may not mind being the breadwinner financially, but they should also seek women who share same values and/or some level of education and upbringing as to balance things out.

        A woman who makes significantly less than her S/O – BUT shares the same kinds of values and the same education level, family upbriging etc., is the best choice for a man like this. Also I find upper middle to upper class men never marry women who have nothing going for themselves. These women may not be as wealthy as their husbands, but they have something going for them in the intelligence arena and the women are often somewhat ambitious in their own ways.

        If a man with assets is always running around with women on a different level or of lower status, he will be used as a meal ticket.

        This is where it is vitally important for a man to choose wisely based on values if money is not an issue for him. Well people should *ALWAYS* choose base don values, but its very important for a man who has a lot to lose finically as well as picking and choosing the type of woman he plans to marry and be the mother of his children.

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        • Dave
          May 28, 2013 @ 09:55:06

          I agree Neecy. When a woman looks very attractive, it is very easy for a man to forget about social class because he wants to ‘woo her and be her knight in shining armour’. His hormones interfere with his better judgement! But, when she uses him as a meal ticket (beyond just going on dates as Ray mentioned) he begins to reel at his decision. I am man enough to admit that I’m guilty of this myself. Lol! 🙂 Going forward, I am changing all of that!

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  15. Elegance
    Jan 29, 2013 @ 15:10:15

    OMG! You have been blogging for a long time and you have lots of comments! And it’s about the sexual marketplace??? I am so linking! This is just up my alley and I totally agree with this post.

    We must be reading and hearing the same things because I think that women should definitely have standards and get someone who can provide. With today’s economy he may not be able to provide as much as a woman, but it should be enough that it’s not a huge disparity. I look forward to reading more 🙂

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    • Neecy
      Jan 30, 2013 @ 22:50:40

      Hey ELEGANCE thanks for stopping by!!

      In this economy it may very well be possible that a woman may make a little more than her S/O. However, there should not be so much of a disparity as you said, that it becomes a burden.

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  16. neurochick
    Jan 30, 2013 @ 09:16:37

    It can’t be 100% looks or money, IMO. Attraction and financial security are important, but if someone treats you like garbage, all the money in the world as well as the best looking person on the planet can’t make that right.

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    • Ray
      Jan 30, 2013 @ 09:39:03

      Agreed! A good woman shouldn’t’ have to settle for one or the other! Make sure he has a good work ethic, give him your love and support and a good man will make sure you want foe nothing!

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    • Neecy
      Jan 30, 2013 @ 22:53:59

      I agree with that. But that is why there is the happy medium. I think things are always best when they meet somewhere in the middle. And people are most happiest and content usually in that realm. Extremes like focusing or placing heavy emphasis on looks or money of course will never work out. But looks and money are important to an EXTENT in relationships b/c:

      (1) Both parties have to be attracted to one another

      (2) Both parties should not have any issues when it comes to finances if they are at least on equal footing and/or with no huge disparities between the two of their incomes, education, ambition, etc.

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  17. foosrock!
    Jan 30, 2013 @ 11:21:20

    I believe women and men should do whatever they want, within the laws of the land and of course their morals to find a worthy partner. Basta!. Technology has allowed us(the media) to spread and influence our opinions that, like feminism(I mean the “butch” type), we’ve gotten judgemental and have forgotten that, what men and women are doing today to seek a partner, has been done for centuries. Just, it’s gotten politically incorrect, skewed from both sides.

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    • Neecy
      Jan 30, 2013 @ 23:02:14

      True.

      However the problem is that these same men and women who keep making obvious bad choices complain about it.

      If people made their choices in mates and didn’t complain when things didn’t work out, then there would not be any problem. But I believe there is enough proof out there that if you make hasty decisions based on a number of things when it comes to picking a lifetime partner, a person will have many consequences to suffer later because of those choices.

      So where people come in offering advice and opinions is maybe they have experienced this in their lives or seen it with others and are trying to give fair warning.

      but at the end of the day, people will always make whatever choices they want so, that is why I don’t offer too much in a way of words about their situation b/c I feel they will always do what they want be it stupid, smart, right or wrong.

      Even with my friend, I am very careful about how much and what I say to her about this situation. Because neither I, or our other close friend want to make her feel like she has to make a decision. We just wanted to give her advice based on our own experiences and/or seeing other people. AFter seeing what my aunt goes through with her husband, I see it was an issue with her making a hasty decision to marry him without really thinking hard about what she really needed and wanted in a lifetime partner.

      When it come sto picking LIFETIME partners (i.e. marriage) I feel too many people make hasty half assed decisions that they later regret.

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  18. Sophia
    Jan 30, 2013 @ 19:03:31

    Women have every right to seek the best man they can for themselves, which includes the criteria of “best provider”, while men have every right to seek the most beautiful women they can pull. I am all for hypergamy BEFORE you settle down into marriage with the chosen man. Matt seems to indicate hypergamy is still in action after marriage which is completely wrong and unethical.
    Neecy, your friend oughta cut her losses while she can and find someone better for her. This man will age her before her time and God help her if kids are brought into the picture…

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    • Neecy
      Jan 30, 2013 @ 23:08:38

      Sophia you and I are ———–><—————

      But there comes a point when a grown adult has to make their decisions. I did my best to *try* to make her think about some things before making this move. SO has our other friend and her mother. But she is ultimatley going to do as she wishes.

      Either way I will support her, but I just hate to see her settle for someone, when I know she can do much better and find a man on her level that is equally ambitious, outgoing and willing to work with her instead of having her pick up the financial tab on everything.

      There is NO REASON why they cannot at least split the rent in half. He has a job, but can't contribute to the household or rent in a way that can take the load off of her? Pssh!

      This dude she is with is just straight up COMFY! He aint trying to get or do better b/c he knows. ANd the minute he started to feel she was inching away from him, he drops the marriage engagement bomb. LOL They been together for several years! Why now?? Yeah….

      And you are right. No woman should feel guilty for wanting equal or better. We have all seen plenty of examples of what happens when a woman doesn't.

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  19. Ray
    Jan 30, 2013 @ 19:33:08

    I agree everybody has a “right” to marry for money or looks but shallow doesn’t end with the wedding ring! It may be wrong and unethical but you’re naive to think rich guys won’t dump an aging wife in a heartbeat when a younger prettier model comes along! It happens every day!

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  20. Sophia
    Jan 30, 2013 @ 20:27:46

    @Ray
    I don’t disagree. The rich man who will trade in his wife for a younger model shouldn’t be too surprised when his wife ditches him when he loses his fortune. These sort of marriages (like the Donald Trump and any of his wives) are ones where both parties go into with their eyes wide open.
    I am talking about the rest of us average joes.
    My point is that women looking to enter long term relationship do have the right to look for the best combination of qualities, including provider-capability, for men they will pledge themselves to.
    I don’t see what is so wrong with that. A striving ambitious woman is not going to be happy with an unproductive layabout with no prospects. It is clear a woman like that values self-improvement, delayed gratification in the service of meeting long term goals, educational striving, and other positive values. Her boufriend does not share these values as exhibited by his status in life and his compalcency about it. Neecy’s friend is in for a rough time, which will get worse when she gives birth to a child and will find herself with two children to take care of (real baby and big baby).

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    • Neecy
      Jan 30, 2013 @ 23:15:01

      Couldn’t have put it better myself Sophia.

      COMPLACENT is the word. He has simply become comfortable and complacent. I blame her for a lot of that b/c for all these years she has allowed tat and has happily picked up the tab in the relationship. Its not until this dude actually proposed that now its hitting her that she has been with a dude who has no real intention on trying to to better to create equilibrium in the relationship.

      And she doesn’t even show off the ring he gave her. She is not excited about this “engagement” at all. because this is the kind of girl who would be grinning from ear to ear with all kinds of pics on her facebook and in text messages of her ring and engagement. I have been around her on several occasions and one time I asked her why she wasn’t wearing her ring and that I wanted to see it (since she never showed me or any of our friends) and she said”oh I forgot it at home”. But I have seen her several times afterwards and she never has it on. I don’t say anything anymore b/c I assume its not something she is excited or feels good about.

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  21. Ray
    Jan 31, 2013 @ 08:08:23

    I think a lot of women settle because they feel they have to, Especially black women. The realists, (the ones with their eyes open) can read the numbers, those that refuse to will die old and lonely! Whereas, I think many young black women have given up on the idea of marriage, there is still a societal and familial pressure to find a good young man to settle down with and procreate! I think we universally agree that a woman should find someone that can bring his fair share to the table! Unfortunately, the numbers don’t provide a solution. Eligible black women outnumber black men by between 1-2 million, after that, take out those that are incarcerated, gay, drug users, married to non black women, the ones that never completed high school and that leaves a very wide disproportionate ratio! It doesn’t help when militant racist black people put pressure on black women to not date IR! As it stands 70% of American black women will never get married! This delusion that there is a suitable black man for every black women is not propaganda, these are facts. When the pickings are so slim, there is no wonder black women are willing to “settle” for anything with testicles! Every woman thinks the numbers are different for “her”!

    For black women to have more access to good mating material, they are going to have to open the doors to dating outside the race or at least support and accept black women that do! Instead of your nasty derision, look at it optimistically, every black woman that marries IR leaves one more black man in the dating pool! You can adapt or die out! There is really no other option, unless you don’t mind sharing a man with other women.

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    • Ray
      Jan 31, 2013 @ 19:51:02

      Whoa! I just reread my post I guess when my blood sugar gets low I tend to write things very bluntly! I apologize if I offended, but I can get very passionate when it comes to the ignorance I face while IR dating. There is always one family member that has tried to dissuade me from dating their daughter or sister and I recently had an encounter with one. Apparently, I used my post to vent! All my facts are well documented but I suppose I could have been a little more eloquent in how I wrote it!

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    • Neecy
      Feb 01, 2013 @ 09:52:31

      Agreed. if there is any one group of women who could stand to be more HYPERGAMOUS – it is Black American Women. Instead, Black American women tend to take on the opposite of hypergamy and settle.

      When a Black women *IS* hypergamous, she is then called a GOLDIGGER.

      Other races of women are EXPECTED to want the best and get it. But when Black women do the same, they are called goldiggers and made to feel guilty.

      Also, what many Black women need to realize is, Its not the race of the man its the mentality of the Black women who attract these types. A lot of Black women will believe that crossing the color lines will rid them of this issue. NOPE!

      She may not be a loser and may very well have a lot going for herself, but there is something in many Black women that just feels that settling for any old Joe is ok. ITS NOT and the proof is in the pudding on the results of that thinking and actions.

      My friend’s fiance is WHITE.

      I think it says that Black women have to change their thinking in general to avoid men like this. Because a Black woman with the wrong way of thinking may think leaving Black men alone and dating other races will solve this issue, but it doesn’t. Your thinking and actions will attract the SAME KINDS of men regardless of race. That is why its imperative for women to MENTALLY understand the detriment that follows when making a bad choice in a partner who is not on the same level or better.

      The mentality has to change within the woman.And the woman can not be guilted into thinking that she should or has to settle for any old joe as to avoid being judged or called a GOLDIGGER.

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      • Ray
        Feb 01, 2013 @ 11:26:01

        I try to stress every time I post in a BW/WM IR blog that white men are not the panacea for all BW, we are not all your knights in shining armor! We ARE an option that you should take advantage of though. I know a lot of guys like me that do not see skin color as a barrier to finding love and marriage with a woman! These are white guys that make a decent living and would treat you like a queen! I’ve also seen white guys I wouldn’t suggest ANY woman (back or white) waste their time on! The trick is to keep an open mind and don’t shut somebody out because of something as stupid as race. As I said, If you want to be pursued by better men show them a better class of men are finding you desirable. People very often don’t want something until they see someone else has it!

        I’ve seen some gorgeous black women in my life. In fact, there was a black girl I worked with before I retired that was the most beautiful woman I had ever seen and I told her so! I would have loved pursuing a relationship with her but there was a 20 year age gap that I thought would be too hard to get past! She was approaching her ripe child bearing years and I felt I was too old to start playing daddy. I don’t mind dating women who already have kids but I didn’t want to have to start with my own at the diaper stage!

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        • Neecy
          Feb 01, 2013 @ 11:31:13

          I agree Black women CERTAINLY need to expand their dating pool to men of other races. But if her mind isn’t right, that won’t make any difference in the world. She will attract the same men, with a different skin, eye color and hair texture. And then wonder what the problem is, instead of looking at herself.

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          • Ray
            Feb 01, 2013 @ 12:03:15

            That’s why it is necessary to work harder at raising the esteem of black girls when they are young! Parents should show better examples. When children grow up, their standards are set by seeing how their parents interact! If they see mommy getting beat up by daddy or if he’s cheating on her, and when they see mommy tolerating it they see this as acceptable behavior! Then they think when the jerks they marry do the same thing they feel it’s just the way it is!
            Teach your sons to treat women with respect and your daughters to accept nothing less!

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            • Neecy
              Feb 01, 2013 @ 12:08:33

              Yeah but telling Black women to close their legs and stop popping out baby after baby by deadbeats gets you in a huge catfight with WOMEN (other Black women and their White feminist supporters). They can’t seem to put two and two together.

              If a woman makes sure she marries and pro creates with a good man, it is likely her children (the daughter) will most likely seek out the same kinds of men and her son will most likely try to be the kind of upstanding man his father is.

              My friend has admitted watching her single mother carry the load had an effect on her. Not surprising she is taking some of those cues in her own relationship

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              • Ray
                Feb 01, 2013 @ 15:11:37

                Well, to be honest, I never brought up race in the equation b/c out of wedlock pregnancy is not just a black problem! There are just as many ringless white baby mamas out there too! We shouldn’t be blaming all this on the women either. They may get stuck holding the bag but the men are just as irresponsible! We as a society can not keep our heads buried in the sand and this type of behavior has to stop! We need to stop pretending like it’s ok and acceptable to continue! I’m a staunch liberal but I can see where conservatives get very agitated at having to constantly feed their tax money into the welfare system when something as simple as using a condom can stop it! You know, not using protection used to be just irresponsible, but with the deadly diseases out there now it’s not only a death sentence for the mother but also her child!

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                • Neecy
                  Feb 01, 2013 @ 15:27:33

                  I agree that both men and women are responsible but on a very different level.

                  For instance if women exercised greater restraint and caution on the kinds of men they sleep with this problem would be greatly reduced.

                  Of course men are responsible to in not impregnating women especially if they know they have no means or desire to raise and contribute to a child’s life.

                  BUT men do not make that ultimate call, if they did, then the onus would be more on them to make better judgements to avoid such situations. And a man who is already irresponsible is not going to do the responsible thing and protect himself or the woman from getting pregnant. If the results show typically its the woman who is left holding the bag and extra burdens and has the greater stake of losing out in this situation of raising a child alone, then you’d think it’d be common sense that the woman would be the most diligent about protecting herself, and not waiting for a man to be the responsible one.

                  SO the idea is that since women are the ones who ultimatley have to make that decision to even have the child, she needs to be the one to practice greater judgement and restraint by protecting herself from irresponsible men who she already has some idea cannot contribute to a healthy lifestyle for any kids she may end up having with him.

                  That is why women need to be more educated on the power they have in controlling this situation with the OOW birthrates.

                  While men also need to be responsible, there needs to be more things put in place to FORCE these men to take care of their responsibilities financially after the fact so that I (who don’t even have kids) don;t have to waste my tac=x dollars raising irresponsible people’s children.

                  Unfortunatey, just b/c a man takes care of a kid financially, does n’t mean the kid is going to benefit from being raised and reared in a healthy two parent environment – something many kids suffer from.

                  The BC is a perfect example of what happens when women do not make better judgements and demand BETTER for themselves, thier children. the BC is a big fat war zone filled with young male “terrorists” who are the products of coming from single mother run homes with no male figures.

                  Enough with the PC stuff (not speaking o you, but just to society in general and thier unwillingness to simply call a spade a spade). it is what it is!

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        • neurochick
          Feb 05, 2013 @ 06:46:26

          That is so true. It’s not about the color of the man, as a woman you have to look at YOU and figure out what you want. If you don’t you’ll be with a layabout of any race. Predators come in all colors.

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      • Ray
        Feb 01, 2013 @ 11:41:48

        Unfortunately there’s a fine line between looking for someone reliable and ambitious, and a gold digger looking for some geriatric old goat worth millions. Anna Nicole was a gold digger PERIOD! There is no way you’re going to convince anyone with a brain that she didn’t marry the senile old fart for his millions! The only thing they had in common was that he and her son were going into diapers at the same time. But, I do believe in kharma and justice prevailed in the end!

        I don’t think a black woman is a golddigger when she tries to find someone who is going to be a good provider and a decent man all rolled into one! When a woman of any race dates someone strictly for the financial benefits, black, Asian, Hispanic or white she’s a gold digger no question about it!

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        • Neecy
          Feb 01, 2013 @ 12:05:16

          Agreed.

          But Anna Nicole is of a certain caliber. as easily as we can say she was a goldigger who married for superficial reasons, did the 100 year old man who married her not have superficial reasons for being with her and marrying her?? Why didn’t he seek out a woman his age to marry? Cause he wanted a young hottie with big boobs!

          Of course he did! Did he actually believe a 20 something year old woman was so hot over heels in love with his 100 year old half billionaire ass, that she married him for no other reason than love?

          He got what he was willing to pay for – as do a lot of other men with money who know that they are marrying women ASLO for superficial reasons and that the women are marrying them for superficial reasons. A lot of men deep down will not come to terms with the REALITY that a lot of the reason they can attract the types of beautiful women they like is b/c of their assets. So when you seek the superficial then do not be surprised when it bites you in the ass!

          It works both ways! Men like to flaunt thier wealth bc they know it will attract the best looking of women (which is what they want). But they also do not want to be judged by it either. That is the problem. Men want to use the superficial to get the superficial. And when they get the superficial, for wanting the superficial that they have, they complain that the superficial is superficial without seeing themselves as superficial and thus superficial begets superficial.

          Does that make sense? LOL

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          • Ray
            Feb 01, 2013 @ 14:41:13

            In cases where the old guy still has his faculties, I would agree both are classless morally bankrupt lowlifes. But did you see this 80 something old geezer that ANS attached herself too? He was clearly not working with a full set of steak knives! He could have bought Viagra by the drum and it couldn’t have done him any good! There is a point where it is sad and pathetic (for both of them)! This happens much more often to rich old widows with signs of approaching Alzheimer’s. Young guy seduces her, has her sign over everything to him and makes sure she has a nice trip down the stairs (with her wheelchair). There is no difference! I would bet you that if the old geezer lasted another month she would have smothered him with the tatas! I’m not an overly religious man but if I was and thought for one minute that God would find this acceptable, I’d change religions or become an atheist! We are supposed to be protecting the elderly not abusing them or just as bad let someone else do it!

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            • Neecy
              Feb 01, 2013 @ 14:47:44

              That man clearly knew what he was doing. I remember awhile ago watching her True Life story and that man saw her and made it his busniess to seek her out b/c he wanted HER. She did not seek him out.

              This does not absolve her of her actions, but it doesn’t absolve him either.

              In cases of elderly people getting taken advantage of, yes its tragic. Mainly when they are not of good sound and mind. but a lot of old people just want what they feel they can’t have – a young hot or beautiful person b/c they obsess over youth.

              That is what it boils down to. because if they really wanted honest companionship they’d seek out someone their own age on their level who would be least likely to take them to the bank.

              Older men want to use thier assets and wealthy to PAY FOR and get younger beautiful women, so they should not be surprised when these same women see them as a wallet with legs and arms and nothing else.

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              • Ray
                Feb 01, 2013 @ 15:34:46

                A six year old sees the candy offered to him by a child molester, he clearly wants it, that doesn’t mean he should take it! My grandmother was that age and she wanted things that were bad for her too! She was diabetic and loved ice cream, we didn’t let her have it!
                The old guy had plenty of help by the toadies around him to get the two together and apparently none from his obtuse kids that let this charade go on!
                Sorry Neecy, we’re going to have to agree to disagree on this one!LOL!

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  22. Ray
    Feb 01, 2013 @ 05:53:44

    I hope that I am not giving anyone the impression that I believe women should tolerate deadbeats! There are a great number of black men that love the status quo: As long as black women have fewer options, black men never have to bring their A game (or even C game) to a relationship. They are in what we use to call “the catbird seat”. When they realize there are other races of men ready to scoop up the ebony jewels they neglect, they know they aren’t the only game in town anymore! A little competition is usually healthy, but apparently toxic to a slacker black mans ego!

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    • Neecy
      Feb 01, 2013 @ 09:55:06

      No I don’t think you were saying that women should tolerate deadbeats at all. But often times I do not think people really understand the real motives for a woman not settling for deadbeats, lazies, and un ambition men with no real strong work ethic or even finances – its to PROTECT herself FIRST and future kids SECOND and wanting for a healthy well balanced relationship for BOTH parties.

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  23. Mike
    Feb 10, 2013 @ 16:19:21

    I guess I’m a bit late to the party but in the discussion about men being threatened by hypergamy, I think it’s because men think (or don’t think- maybe just intuit) that they have more to lose. Yes, men are shallow and our attraction triggers are mostly about the physical, so we’re certainly not any better than women in that regard, but the majority of women can get a guy. Maybe not the greatest guy, but at least someone. Under a pure hypergamous regime, a lot of men would end up alone.

    Strip away our civilization, with it’s culture and it’s customs like traditional marriage, and you have a situation very similar to primates; a few alpha males end up with all the females and the rest of the males end up alone. That’s why I think men’s innate fear of hypergamy or any sort of “golddiggery” behavior is rooted at well below the conscious level. Under the rules of civilization, most people can find a mate. But as our civilization unwinds, those old instincts are coming out.

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  24. jerald el mcclane
    Mar 22, 2013 @ 20:16:01

    A man’s loyalty is tested when he has everything. A woman’s loyalty is tested when he has nothing. I understand that women want to ride in my Ferrari. What I was looking for was the girl that would take the bus with me when that Ferrari broke down. When rappers write songs like “Bitches Ain’t Shit” and “You’z A Ho,” they’re not thinking about the Ferrari. Just that Goddamn bus and it pisses them off.

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  25. Dave
    May 28, 2013 @ 12:50:05

    Another side to this you haven’t considered: Check out the following link: http://alphagameplan.blogspot.com/2013/02/the-cost-of-hypergamy.html?m=1. Also, Che k out this other link to gauge typical male reaction to the aforementioned story: http://alphagameplan.blogspot.com/2013/02/the-cost-of- hyper gamy.html.

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  26. Dave
    May 28, 2013 @ 13:03:17

    Another side to consider: check out this link: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2263518/I-left-love-life-I-thought-I-better-Now-I'm-childless-42.html. Also, check out this link for your typical male response (not saying I agree with it :)): http://alphagameplan.blogspot.com/2013/02/the-cost-of-hypergamy.html.

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