Read between the lines Please!!

There seems to be this idea that Neecy is “throwing the baby out with the bath water” and trying to take women back to the stone ages where we were knocked on th head and dragged back to the caves by men.

That Neecy is ADVOCATING that women not love, fight for and appreciate the things we have today in terms of being able to be independent and carve out the lives we want for ourselves as women.

That Neecy is HAPPILY ADVOCATING that women were BETTER OFF  in kitchens barefoot pregnant and not working, and bowing down to the feet of men.

That if you are a career driven woman you are the spawn of SATAN.

That NEECY just happens to hate the feminist movement and what it has done for women simply bc I cirticize what the movement means to me THESE DAYS (i.e. nothing of real value to women in terms of advancing).

LET ME JUST BE CLEAR FOR THOSE WHO CANNOT READ BETWEEN THE LINES!

You do NOT have to be a feminist to activley support the advancement and equality for women.

Just as you do not need to be apart of a particular racial group to fight for the advancement and equality of that racial group.

What am i saying?

A woman does not need to feel she has to call herself, identify with being a “FEMINIST” just to feel as if she is “not throwing out the baby with the bath water”.

A woman can simply be self identified as a humanitarian and person that believes in equality and advancement for ALL PEOPLE and women and not label herself or identify with “feminists”.

Feminists are apart of a particular “movement”.  They do things on a collective under the name and guise of a label called “FEMINISTS”.

Therefore, their actions as a whole are based and judged in that movement or lable.

If you are a woman that does not agree with half of what these FEMINISTS today are doing in terms of a “movement” for women, then you WILL NOT AND SHOULD NOT feel that you have to simply call yourself or identify with such women or movements to feel as though you are still supporting women.

You can still be an individual woman that believes in fighting for your rights and rights of other women where you feel it COUNTS without having to feel like you have to attach yourself to a “movement” or LABEL.

 

If a man supports equality for women does he have to be a FEMINIST to believe and/or do this?

 

If a White person believes in racial equality for Blacks, do they have to turn themselves into a Black person to do this?? NO?

 

Ohhh ok just checking!

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21 Comments (+add yours?)

  1. ttmatthe
    Feb 06, 2013 @ 12:06:25

    PREACH!

    Where is it written that a woman needs a label in order to be her best self and decide her life?

    You don’t need anyone’s permission to do you, nor do you need to come out of anyone else’s “umbrella”.

    Also, if that category has issues that makes you not want any part of it, there’s nothing wrong with that.

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    • Neecy
      Feb 06, 2013 @ 13:53:05

      Exactly. this idea that I have to simply be a feminist b/c I’ma woman that has benefited from past feminist movements is ridiculous.

      Its almost as similar to the argument that b/c I am Black i have to support every single Black movie like SOUL PLANE that comes out b/c (1) I’m Black and (2) B/c the Black person that made the movie and the Black actors playing in it are “paving the way” for Black filmmakers and I should support it b/c as a Black person i a m somehow benefiting? Does that make sense?

      Juts as I hate when i am expected to support anything created by Blacks (even if I don’t agree with the premise and/or what they are promoting) is the same reason i get frustated with this idea I have to be alinged with “feminists” b/c I am a woman.

      If I don’t support Black actors or movies that i have no interest in or cannot relate to does that mean I am not appreciative of the opportunities that Black people have to make their own entertainment and movies?

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      • Ray
        Feb 07, 2013 @ 08:04:23

        Besides baby girl, I don’t blame about Soul Plane! That movie sucked! I’m glad you don’t fell guilty for not supporting any black movie released! So am I correct in stating that if we dated you wouldn’t force me to see a Madea movie?

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    • Jer Littrell
      Feb 06, 2013 @ 16:48:33

      “Where is it written that a woman needs a label in order to be her best self and decide her life?”

      “You don’t need anyone’s permission to do you, nor do you need to come out of anyone else’s “umbrella”.”

      ttmatthe, your question and comment really had me thinking. I was thinking about whether or not feminist ideas can be oppressive in themselves when it’s presented to women as if they are less of a woman if they don’t agree with everything they say. (whoever “they” is… since many feminists believe in many different things as discussed in my comment below.)

      When people are trying to build a movement, they may need to use some forms of psychological manipulation in order to get people to “toe the line” and join the movement. A strong form of psychological manipulation is bringing certain people’s identity into question.

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  2. Jer Littrell
    Feb 06, 2013 @ 14:41:32

    Neecy,

    You said, “Feminists are apart of a particular ‘movement’. They do things on a collective under the name and guise of a label called ‘FEMINISTS’. “

    I think it’s important to realize that feminism is more of a broad CONCEPT than a particular movement. Feminism has a long complex history with a cross pollination of different philosophies and ideologies. For example, according to Wikipedia, there’s about 17 different ideologies in feminism: Liberal, Anarchist, Socialist and Marxist, Radical, Cultural, Separatist and lesbian, Black and womanist, Chicana, Multiracial, Postcolonial, Third-World, Standpoint, Libertarian, Post-structural, Postmodern, French, and Environmental. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_movements_and_ideologies)

    Liberal Feminism is the most widely known in America and is often what someone is thinking of when they hear the word “feminist”. When someone disagrees with feminism in mainstream America, they are not disagreeing with feminism in general, they are likely disagreeing with parts of Liberal Feminism in particular (or maybe all of it).

    Personally, I would consider myself an Individualist Libertarian Feminist: “Classical liberal or libertarian feminism conceives of freedom as freedom from coercive interference. It holds that women, as well as men, have a right to such freedom due to their status as self-owners.”

    I include the word “individualist” because I believe human beings are sovereign individuals, instead of being a member of as social collective such as “women”, or “black people”, etc. What an human being says and does STARTS and ENDS with them, and them alone. They aren’t beholden to anyone, on any basis, unless they voluntarily agree to do so. In other words, an individual who happens to be a woman, doesn’t owe anything to other woman on the basis that she’s a woman. A black woman doesn’t owe anything to black people on the basis that she’s black. Etc….

    I completely understand that my viewpoint may be perceived as “unconventional”, “radical”, or “outside the mainstream”. But that’s the result of being independent thinking and not accepting other people’s ideas at face value without questioning them rationally and logically.

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    • Jer Littrell
      Feb 06, 2013 @ 20:48:54

      Here’s a 15 minute YouTube. Comedian Doug Stanhope talks about liberty, individualism, and marriage. His edgy, sadistic, and nihilistic humor questions group identity, or social collectivism, and conveys many individualist libertarian feminist themes..

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    • Emma the Emo
      Feb 08, 2013 @ 04:38:46

      You know, my views are same as yours (judging by what you wrote), but I still wouldn’t call myself a feminist. Two reasons. Both genders should have those rights you are talking about, and I see that both genders have obstacles in their way quite often, so no point in emphasizing just the women part. Second reason is about the public image – kind if silly, but feminism (in practice rather than theory) quit being good a long time ago, so it’s best for me to adopt a different name.

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      • Neecy
        Feb 10, 2013 @ 08:54:37

        HEY EMMA!!

        Yes I agree that the world needs to be more focused on HUMANITY and not separating it. That we ALL should be fighting for equality of all people and genders. And if a group is going to break off and become more specialized int he interests of a particular thing, they should be very careful to make sure that their IMAGE is respected and that what they are doing makes them credible.

        Feminism today has lost its CREDIBILITY IMO. Especially coming from someone like me who considers myself to be independent and a very self aware and proud woman. But i want NO PARTS of what modern day feminism has become. I would rather see myself as a person interested in all people coming together and recognizing that every human being both male and female of all races should be interested in fighting for the equal rights of others.

        Because once that image has become tarnished, anything that particular group tries to do and say becomes non credible. that is what has happened to feminism TODAY. In the past feminists we re much more credible b/c their image was clearly to make ways for women. Nowadays you have a bunch of women who are simply trying to fulfill their own best interests and using the name of feminism to do it which is wrong. Then people wonder why so many women today do not want to aligned with the kinds of women who call themselves feminists or part of the “feminist movement” today?

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    • Neecy
      Feb 10, 2013 @ 08:47:47

      Interesting. Thanks for pointing that out to me Jer. I believe I am talking about liberal feminism which I feel has done nothing to improve womanhood socially.

      I do agree your views while practical regarding being an individualist, its very hard to practice that in theory when you live in a world where people are placed in categories and such based on what and who they are. SO even if *YOU* choose to be an individualist, you do not live in a vacuum and often will receive priveledge or not depending on certain things. Simply by being a White and male in many societies whether you identify with the “white race” or not, you will benefit from such just by being.

      Sometimes being a minority and a woman subjects one to certain things that a Non minority and male would not experience. So for example if a Black woman saying she does not identify with the female group or being Black may live her life that way, but whether she realizes this or not, she will still be categorized in this world and society as such and many of her experiences will come from that. I am not saying she has to be completely defined by social or racial labels, but at some point one does have to understand how to embrace the concept that what and who you are often guides your experiences in life no matter how you choose to see yourself. I am sure tons of minorities would love to simply just live thier life as individuals but the reality is every day they are faced with experiences and realities that while living on this earth they ARE what they are and have to understand that embracing and working within that frame is best as opposed to working against it.

      One cannot live without living by these principles IMO. While we all have an ability to pursues individual goals and interests, no matter how much we try to stray from cultural, social, economic ties based on our “group” be that race, gender, religion, sexuality, etc., we cannot escape this.

      This is why i am very adament that people of “like minds” of a shared group should come together to strengthen and support as much as they can. Now the caveat to this is of course just b/c someone shares the same “group” as you, does not mean that they share the same values, interests, etc. I am about finding LIKE MINDED people of a certain group or movement that shares the same motivation and interests in reaching a common goal.

      For me, I like Black WOmen Empowerment b/c many of the women will tend to hold the same ideas and motivations in reaching a particular goal for Black women. In Black women empowerment, we are a minority of Black women who choose not to be defined by traditional Black norms and ways of doing and thinking. We seek to define and carve out what is best for us as INDIVIDUALS, but we also seek to encourage other Black women like us to do the same b/c in this world you need some kind of support group of like minded people or individuals.

      I never understand how people who simply live their lives as individualists really survive on that theory when the rest of the world isn’t.

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      • Jer Littrell
        Feb 10, 2013 @ 12:31:35

        “I do agree your views while practical regarding being an individualist, its very hard to practice that in theory when you live in a world where people are placed in categories and such based on what and who they are. SO even if *YOU* choose to be an individualist, you do not live in a vacuum and often will receive priveledge or not depending on certain things. Simply by being a White and male in many societies whether you identify with the “white race” or not, you will benefit from such just by being.”

        I agree that others, in the “outside world”, will attempt to come into my “inner world” (and have done so in the past), and tell me that I’m “this” or “that” and I should do “this” or “that”. It takes a lot of inner strength to define myself as I see fit. It’s definitely not easy, and it will likely result in a certain degree of solitude. Individualism is not an easy path by no means.

        I hear that a lot, “You have benefited from being a white male, whether you know it or not”. I’m totally baffled by that! I need to create a website where I challenge people to show how I’ve benefited in life solely on the basis of have white skin and a penis. I would proudly award someone a $100 via Paypal if they can give a good answer.

        I did a good deal of mind-altering substances when I was younger, but I never saw a court room or have been arrested. If I was a non-white male, especially Black or Hispanic/Latino, I would have most likely been charged with at least a misdemeanor. Other than that, I seriously can’t find anything. And I’ve spent a great deal of time thinking about that from many angles.

        “Sometimes being a minority and a woman subjects one to certain things that a Non minority and male would not experience. So for example if a Black woman saying she does not identify with the female group or being Black may live her life that way, but whether she realizes this or not, she will still be categorized in this world and society as such and many of her experiences will come from that. I am not saying she has to be completely defined by social or racial labels, but at some point one does have to understand how to embrace the concept that what and who you are often guides your experiences in life no matter how you choose to see yourself. I am sure tons of minorities would love to simply just live thier life as individuals but the reality is every day they are faced with experiences and realities that while living on this earth they ARE what they are and have to understand that embracing and working within that frame is best as opposed to working against it.”

        I strongly agree with what you’re saying. I think we are talking PAST each other slightly though. Individualism doesn’t necessarily mean being all by oneself and living in a vacuum cut off from everyone and everything. It’s not a Henry Thoreau, Walden’s Creek, kinda thing where someones like a bearded old man living on top of a mountain by himself isolated from civilization; although it could be if one chooses.

        Individualism is being independently freethinking and not blindly restraining and conforming oneself to mass public opinion. A good example of that would be Black Women Empowerment with websites like http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/ or http://www.theblackwomensexpo.com/. The underlying theme and purpose of organizations like these is something like “Ok, most people outside these walls see and perceive as like ‘this’ or ‘that’. They try to influence our attitudes, thoughts, and beliefs like ‘this’ or ‘that’. But many times we need to not accept this at face value. We need to think deeper and question those things for what they really are beneath the surface. We need to think critically and re-examine them, and possibly even change them. Then hopefully we can liberate each of us and achieve better outcomes.”

        Organizations like those are basically “re-branding” and “re-defining” what it means to be a “Black Woman”. It’s as if “Black Women” are incorporated into some sort of corporation made up of individuals, and those organizations are like the Marketing Department that’s trying to “re-brand” the corporation’s image.

        I see organizations like those as something that appears to be social collectivism, but that’s on the surface. On a deeper level, it is a meeting place of like-minded individuals to exchange ideas, like you already pointed out, but will overtime create a culture that is unique and individually diverse. It seems to be collectivist organization that acts as a conduit for individualism to cultivate. And I believe that’s a very beautiful thing.

        If organizations like those were made up of individualists, and I believe they already do contain many individualists, they would inevitably create a “brand” that is so diverse, rich, and vast to the point where the “outside world” couldn’t put a label on it. There would be no single broad generalized statement one could put on “Black Women”. No one could say “All black women are ‘this’ or ‘that’” without a long complex list of caveats and exceptions added to it. It would end having the word “sometimes” thrown before almost every statement. “Black women are sometimes this way, or sometimes that way”. “Black women are sometimes corporate executives and sometimes housewives.” “Black women are sometimes academics and sometimes entertainers”. “Black women sometimes date black men and sometimes they don’t”.. etc. (just random examples off the top of my head)

        That would keep happening until eventually all Black Women are atomized into simply individuals. Then, I believe, they would be truly liberated into a free-spirit that transcends beyond physical appearance that is perceived to be everything and anything. And it would all happen as a result of each individual Black Woman answering the question “Who am I?” in a unique way and becoming in that in their own unique way that is INDIVIDUALLY them and only them, and no one else…

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        • Neecy
          Feb 21, 2013 @ 19:13:45

          Jer you brought up some very good points. I agree that while people are what they are, they can still manage individualistic thinking for their lives. I feel too many people do have a crabs in barrell mentality and that is a very dysfunctional and limited way to live ones life.

          I consider myself individualistic on some levels but I am also very much into the idea of like minds and similarities in shared thoughts, behaviors and values forming solid foundations and circles to strengthen goals on an invidual and collective level. This will only serve to help other individualistic people find circles where they are supported as well.

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  3. foosrock!
    Feb 07, 2013 @ 07:17:09

    Well, to tell the honest truth, I wished I had bowed down(more) to my exhusband, have more babies(like he wanted) and stay my narrow butt at home being the mother of his children, cook, cleaner, lady of the house and sex kitten, because, I look back and see what a fruitful life that would have been. Instead, I went for the career(in finance and we know those jobs are being cut drastically and goodness forbid you’re female and OLD!!!) and am alone, middle age(albeit still looking hot).

    Soooooo, whatever floats one’s boat. No caveat was needed for me to understand what you were saying, Neecy. People have gotten too politically correct, which just breeds inverted anger.

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    • Neecy
      Feb 10, 2013 @ 09:01:38

      Hey FOOS!!

      I’m sorry you feel you ruined a good thing. When you say that life would have been more frutiful I am curious as to what is was that made you go against it? Did you feel feminism was telling you that you needed to be a career woman in order to be self fulfilled and happy or did you just do it for some other reason?

      Either way no use of crying over spoiled milk. As long as you still have your health, looks and sound mind you should still be thankful!!!

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  4. Ray
    Feb 07, 2013 @ 08:00:06

    I understood you from the beginning. Simply put, you appreciate all the benefits that early feminism has gotten women but you’re turned off by the rogue militant element that has turned the term “feminists” into a dirty word! Right?

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    • Neecy
      Feb 10, 2013 @ 09:02:47

      YES. I feel feminism today is not very credible. i feel its a lot of women who have their own perverted self interests using the name and label of feminism to promote it and Its just a turn off for a lot of women.

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  5. Emma the Emo
    Feb 08, 2013 @ 04:22:36

    Heheh, I used to think I was a feminist because I was for equal rights and being fair to everyone. But then I found out this is not what feminism is about! Yes, I want to work and I have ambitions, but no way in hell will I call myself a feminist again. What feminism achieved in many countries is taking things from men for nothing in return, and putting them in jail for victimless crimes. Also a certain degree of hostility between men and women, and confusing people’s life choices by generally being anti-science.

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    • Neecy
      Feb 10, 2013 @ 09:08:02

      Emma you live in a Nordic country don’t you? I know feminism is pretty heavy in Nordic countries.

      I feel that feminism should not be about dividing men and women but for creating a balance between the two genders so that no man or woman feels above or beneath one or the other. That we should be working together as genders to achieve the purpose and balance we were put on earth.

      If women feel males are not extending certain rights or privileges based on our gender, then women should FIGHT for those equalities. but when you have a bunch of mad women jumping on feminism to fulfill crazy self interests or even thier own hatred of men, then it becomes a problem.

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  6. neurochick
    Feb 08, 2013 @ 06:56:06

    I don’t like it when people say what you should and shouldn’t believe it. I tell them, “Don’t should on me.”

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  7. neurochick
    Feb 10, 2013 @ 13:12:44

    I think the question of feminism is, are we doing this because we want equal rights for women, or because we hate men?

    But I can understand the feminist movement (not third wave though). I’m on ancestry.com and I found my great grandmother, my grandfather’s mother. She was married at 17 and at 22 had three children and died before she was thirty, while my great grandfather went through another twenty something wife who also died young, he, on the other hand lived until his early sixties. I think that is the kind of stuff that fueled the feminist movement; my grandfather was quite sexist but he was raised to be such.

    The problem is that the feminists now aren’t concerned with equal rights of women, or making traditional “women’s work” valuable, they feel that women should almost become men themselves which doesn’t make sense to me because being a feminist means embracing the feminine, or so I thought.

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