When will Black women happily stop acting like MAMMIES for everyone?

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OH YES. Neecy is about to “go there” on this one. 😉

LOOK UP IN THE SKY!!!

What’s that!!!??

Its a bird….

Its a plane…

Its

captain_save_a_hoe_by_millenia89-d3ct2vj

CAPTAIN SAVE A HOE WHITE KNIGHTING BLACK WOMAN BRIGADE CALVARY!!!!!

OK that was a tongue twister!.

Breathe Neecy Breeeeeeath!!!

You are prolly saying W.T.H????????

WOMEN WHO WHITE KNIGHT FOR OTHER WOMEN, MEN,…….

“how can a woman be a WHite Knight”. Uuuh I thought the same thing, but then I examined the disturbing behaviors of so many American Black women and have come to fully realize that Black American women looooove White Knighting for people and things that aren’t doing jack to help or reciprocate towards her or Black women in general.

I am sure everyone at some point has come across a person or people like this.

In the PUA communities, “White Knights” in a sense are “those men who jump at the chance to defend the virtue of women at every opportunity, no matter if the defense is warranted” (Heartiste) . Now of course I believe that men should defend and protect women. And I have a great admiration for men who are not afraid to stand up for women and defend them. We need more men like this.

HOWEVER, WHite Knighting becomes problematic in my eyes, when its borderline supplicating to women. When these same men are just overextending themselves to women and they can’t see often times there is a fine line between a woman appreciating a man who defends and protects women and one where women EXPECT him to b/c he is looking for a puppy dog pat on the head and/or recognition or to receive positive reinforcement from women.

So where am I going with this?

The same thing applies to women or people in general who do this.

Have you ever known of or seen a person or group who everyone shits on and looks down on. The person or group  that no one gives two shits about until they need something from that person or group? The person who wouldn’t get spit on if they were on fire?

Yet that person/group does everything in their power to fight, defend everyone else’s honor – even when those people have more than enough resources, people and things in place to support, uplift and protect them? Even when those same people have yet to return the favor?

AMERICAN BLACK WOMEN & THE DIRE NEED TO BE A MAMMY

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The term MAMMY has taken on a kind of personality trait and “type” of its own that goes beyond the original definitions.

Its about a way of thinking a mentality – one that Black women have taken on proudly to their own detriment.

This is a maaajor problem I see with Black American women. The MAMMY its been attributed to Black American women both literally and figuratively since slavery. THE MAMMY (or what I like to sometimes call – everyone’s MULE).

The MAMMY in the definition sense that you would find on the internet under descriptions was a large rotund non-threatening ASEXUAL Black woman who was often a maid or servant who serviced White families and nursed the White children of their plantation owners during slavery.

If you have ever seen Gone with the Wind, Hattie McDaniels who played the maid (and won an Oscar for it LOL) was a Mammy. When you look at her in comparison to Scarlette who was thin, feminine and well protected, Hattie was the stark difference. But Good ole Hattie was there to protect the innocent virtuous feminine sexually appealing Vivian. Black women were often portrayed in this light as to not be a threat to WHite womanhood. They needed to present Black women as less of a feminine beauty/ideal that did not need protection and more as the protector (which is a masculine trait).

mammy

Nowadays you can see these kinds of Black women in a variety of media like commercial, TV shows and movies. MADEA is the first and most prevalent Mammy I can think of today.

The Mammy character – She is  usually paired next to the feminine sexually attractive and thin Non Black woman and is usually the ASEXUAL side kick friend, always looking to “nurse” her hot friends “man issues”. Or she is just generally there to help and nurse everyone else’s needs and help them fix their problems, is always offering up her shoulder to cry on, puts her burdens and “needs” and problems aside just to address and help others.

She will even over extend herself to others who use her back as a stepping stool to get what they want even if that means knocking her down and getting what they need and want at HER expense. What does the MAMMY do? She smiles, takes it and finds more ways to supplicate to the very people who are stepping on her and shitting on her.

You also see these kinds of Black women in the Black community. Doing all kinds of things for Black men and Black people yet not getting her needs, desires met nor her issues resolved with the same help. But she’s OK with that!

Usually this woman has no support system of her own, despite being everyone else’s support system. The same people she is extending herself to are NOT returning that same shoulder or “nursing” her needs or they are benefiting at HER EXPENSE. The same people who look to her when they need a boost or help are not the same people she can look to, to help her.

THE MAMMY, WHITE KNIGHT, & FRIEND ZONED DUDE ARE ALL IN ONE

When I think of a MAMMY I think similarly of a overly supplicating WHite Knight kind of male or a male that has eagerly accepted his place in the “friend zone” of women who only see him as “the help” and shoulder to cry on in their times of need.

The guy that has happily resigned himself to the friend zone he’s used for the benefit of meeting that woman’s desires and needs but his needs hardly are ever met except that he gets to stay in the company of the girl he likes but nothing more.

I see and think of a Black woman kind of the same who was/is typically all to eager to serve the needs of others (especially Black males) even though she is not receiving anything in return for her “graciousness” concern and help.

HERE I COME TO SAVE YOU!!!!!!!

hattie-mcdaniel-gone-with-the-wind

A Mammy wants to save everyone BUT HERSELF!

A mammy feels its her God given duty to simply extend herself to everyone even without reciprocation. We see this kind of mentality all too often with American Black women and its done nothing to improve the lives or suffering of Black women.

Instead what we DO typically see are these same kinds of Black women carrying burdens and loads alone and on their own without the support or help from the the very people they are over extending themselves to and for.

kinda like the White Knight who gets used to “help” and defend a woman who then turns around and rewards a different kind of male with her affections and romantic gestures (usually a male quite opposite from the supplicating WHite Knight – i.e. the BAD BOY).

Black Mammified women know all to well about this too. They work overtime to help and support & WHITE KNIGHT Black men, who then step over them to get to the nearest feminine Non Black chick who doesn’t and didn’t do anything to help him (and is not expected to). Yet the overworked Black MAMMY was all too happy to mule herself for these Black men only to get kicked to the curb for women who didn’t have to do anything but demand & EXPECT to be treated like she is royalty. LOL Funny how that works huh? A woman who expects to be treated like a Queen often receives that, while the woman who accepts being the mule gets treated as such.

ARE BLACK WOMEN JUST BRAINWASHED, CRAZY, STUPID?

Too many Black women are just mentally branded to give a damn about people who don’t give a damn about them. Not only that, going so far as to put her own issues and the issues affecting Black women on the back burner just to be captain save a ______ (you fill in the blank) to people who do not need her rescuing b/c they have people and resources in place to help them in times of need.

Instead of these women devoting their time and energy and resources to helping those like them or other Black women who NEED them, they’d rather keep chasing after those who only see them as a resource for their needs and nothing more.

You see when you are a person that is always giving to people and things that don’t care to give back, YOU lose out. because many people will often take what they can get from those all too eager to give it without some kind of demand for reciprocation. That’s the nasty part of human nature.

We have explored this reciprocation concept before at the NEST. And I am a HUUUGE fan of it. Reciprocation and demanding of such is NOT a selfish act. Every human being has a right to want, desire and demand in some cases reciprocation for their actions.

Men who allow themselves to stay in the friend zone and who offer up their ample resources, time, and energy to women who have NO INTENT on being with them romantically are male MAMMIES. These men offer their shoulders as crying havens for women, they are usually giving the time and resources that other men are unwilling to give to these women (yet these other non friend zoned men are reaping some kind of benefit from the woman be it romantically in some fashion).

SAME SHIT different situation.

Now I feel I need to make a disclaimer here:

In many instances, one gives and helps others and extends themselves to others who cannot help themselves and surely they do not and SHOULD NOT demand something in return. THIS is not the kinds of situations I ma talking of.

As a Christian woman I believe that it is *IMPORTANT* to be giving, helpful to others and concerned for others in need. I believe that part of being a good person means that you often have to extend yourself, your resources or whatever you can to help the less fortunate or those in need of your help without demanding, expecting or looking for something in return other than the warm and fuzzy feelings that come with helping someone less off than yourself.

NOW that I’ve got that important disclaimer out the way that I am not some cold hearted SELFISH Biatch only concerned with what i can get back from giving, I have to say there are too many cases where people FOOLISHLY and STUPIDLY continue  give of themselves, their resources, time and energy to people and things that DO NOT NEED IT, and would never extend those same things back even when they can.

IT IS STUPID (for lack of a better word), when a  person or group continues to extend themselves and help others who don’t really need it and who NEVER return the favor., especially when they have issues and burdens and obstacles of their own they need to be focusing on and putting their energies towards.

How can you help someone else when you need to help yourself?? Its like  hopping over the fence to clean up your neighbors trash in their yard, when you got a boatload of trash scattered around your yard that needs tending too.

Black women are probably the most guilty of this kind of behavior and we see the results it has garnered for African American women. NADA but pain, suffering and being walked over!

When I look at other races of women, I see women who are all too happy to look out for NUMERO UNO and those like them. Its HUMAN NATURE for people to want to protect their best interests FIRST and FOREMOST before extending themselves to others (especially those in competition or who have a conflict of interest).

Would a corporation survive if that corporation was constantly looking to help build up their competitors instead of taking their resources and energies and putting it towards their own corporation to make it strong and self-sufficient? HECK NO! The same applies to human beings.

In essence, most women in some fashion can support and stand by and uplift each other, but the core desire is to always make sure SELF and those like self are benefiting before others receive. The goal is to understand that before you can help someone else, you need to have your stuff in order as much as possible.

Is this wrong? NOPE! I believe in the survival of the fittest wholeheartedly. I believe that sometimes people have to be concerned with uplifting and fixing themselves and supporting those like them or those who align with them as allies before they start extending to others who may be of a conflict of interest or who simply are not going to benefit them in any way.

EXAMPLE.

Black women have a lot of issues affecting us worldwide. Poverty, suffering, abuse, mental and emotional issues. These issues are not just unique to Black women, but does affect Black women disproportionately compared to others races.

Unlike most other races of women dealing with these issues, there are typically things in place to HELP these women and girls. While all women and girls cannot be saved, most Non Black communities (especially Western WHite communities) put things in place to ensure that their women and children get what they need.

Black communities (at least in America) do not offer these same things for their women or children. Maybe b/c Black women are too busy trying to prove how they can take on everyone else’s problems, fights and issues to be concerned with their own?

But notice WHite American women for the most part have many things and people in place to defend her honor and to protect her. Most Black American women don’t. As the saying goes “no calvary is coming to save the Black woman”. So what does that mean?

That means that if you are a BW with half a brain with cells in it, that you are on your own fro the most part and yourself and other Black women need to make efforts to create these protections and such for Black women SINCE NO ONE ELSE IS DOING OR WANTS TO DO IT.

This is not a post to make you feel sorry for Black women. This is a post to point out the reality that Black women do not and cannot afford to defend and keep over extending themselves to people ad things that are NOT RETURNING the favor. Because all the issues facing Black women will continue to build and pile while we are out WHITE KNIGHTING for groups and people who already have things in place to help themselves.

Many young Black girls are full of low self esteem b/c hey are constantly being sent messages verbally and non verbally that they are only valuable if they are lighter skinned or closer looking to Non Black women. They further see this with the kinds of women that Black males typically choose as their long term mates and wives or just as their desires physically. No Black woman CAN CHANGE what Black men do and like.

Instead of Black women working to help build a better and more self loving image so that young Black girls can love themselves, feel worthy and embrace who they are (like most other races of women do), many BW would rather continue to support and shove their heads up the butt cracks of the very Black males (and other races of women who benefit at the expense of Black women) who walk over them and basically tell them they are “not good enough”.

Instead of working on things to increase the positive reinforcement of Black girls beneath them,  telling them they should expand their dating pool to other races of men who appreciate them, see themselves AS THAEY ARE as beautiful and worthy, Black women are out freedom fighting for women, men and people who DO NOT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT THEM. Yet who is focusing on the Black women and girls who needs help? NO ONE.

So you are asking “Neecy what and where in the hell did this long winded rant come from?”

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Well. I have always taken issue with Mammified Black women. But an incident today just reinforced why I feel Black women are much slower to get ahead of our issues compared to other women. B/C Black women are too busy trying to save everyone else but themselves, yet everyone else is trying to save themselves FIRST.

There seems to be this idea that it is my duty as a Black woman to care about NONSENSE like some rapper saying he “F*&&^&%” some athlete’s former groupie  Latina wife. UHM why is this even newsworthy??

Black women have been publicly slandered by Black men, athletes, rappers, gerbils and you name it, yet no one feels the need to come to our defense.

SO apparently some former “groupie” who messed with Lil Wayne (yes the rapper) is now married with kids to a Miami Basketball player. Recently LIL Wayne for whatever reason was escorted from a Miami Heat and Lakers game and he took that as having been banned by the NBA by Miami Heat b/c he was rooting for the Lakers at a Miami Heat home game. As a result, he in true dumb rapper fashion cursed many of the players on the Miami Heat as well as the NBA. He also took it upon himself to curse and say he “FU%%%^$%^$” one of the Miami Heat’s wife.

Said wife was once I guess a groupie who ran in circles where she was obviously involved with some famous men like Lil Wayne. I have no idea NOR DO I CARE about what his and her past is, but nonetheless he put her on blast simply b/c she was married to a Miami Heat player and he had a history with her.  SO it went like this:

LIL WAYNE: “If you’re wondering why you didn’t see me at the All Star Game. It’s because I was banned from attending all NBA events. The Miami Heat got me banned. F*** NBA! F*** NBA! F*** Lebron! F*** SheWade! F*** Chris Bosh! And I F***ed Chris Bosh wife!”

Ok. Was it tacky for him to say this? YES. IMMATURE? YES. STUPID and CHILDISH? Absolutely. SURPRISING? NOT!

I mean what do you expect from a rapper that makes his living demeaning women?

The post was “SUPPOSED” to be about why people do not feel the need to stand up and defend women like her who have “bad reps” b/c she was being dragged through the mud by people saying she was a low class groupie who lucked up and married some basketball player. yada yada.

So some of us expressed very little concern or care about this situation b/c, well we feel it is….just STOOPI…. not worth our time or energy to care??

The minute some Non Black woman draws the ire of some lunatic dumb rapper, all of us Black women have to come running out with our soldier uniforms,  AUnt Jemima scarves, WHite Knight capes and galloping on our horses like a calvary to rescue this “poor helpless” Non Black woman and her name?

A woman that has a husband, family and PLLLLLENTY of resources to protect her and help her fight against her “attacker” in a court of law against slander? And b/c I refuse to exert any energy towards this NONSENSE I simply do not care “b/c she is not Black”?

Could it be more about me not caring b/c she is not really fkn suffering? Or because mostly all celeb women of some sort have been trashed publicly even if they do have clean reputations? Why is this chick so special that I need to break out the picket signs, book an immediate trip to Miami and walk the picket line to defend her honor and name against LIL WAYNE?

She lives a lifestyle that the majority of population and women will never live or can only dream of. She is well connected and protected. Even against stupid rappers like Lil Wayne. She has the resources, time and money to get good attorneys to go after Lil Wayne for slander.

but Lil ole me is supposed to lose sleep over this?

But the real point is, the author and other posters felt that we as women need to “CARE” about the fact that he said this about her. Granted, she should not have been brought into his tirade b/c the only connection she has to the incident is she happens to be married to a Miami Heat Player names Chris Bosh. Also, apparently she has had some kind of sexual or romantic interactions with Lil Wayne in her past non married single days when she was on the scene.

But Why do I need to give a flying watoosie about this nonsense?!

Instead we have a blog full of “white Knight/Captain save a hoe” regular ole Black women with not even a 1/4 of the resources or lifestyle Mrs. Bosh is enjoying, foaming at the mouth about why we need to stand up for her against this “atrocity” called Lil Wayne.

LIL Wayne has been disrespecting women for damn near a decade now. Mainly Black women.

Now some “poor” rich Latina who is married to a wealthy basketball player needs us Black women to come and defend her name and honor, when Black women can’t even defend their damn selves from public floggings and slanders against our womanhood??

is Mrs. Bosh out there picketing on behalf of Black women with all the rappers, athletes, actors and such who have made nasty remarks about the WHOLE entire group of Black women? NOOOOO.

So, just b/c a few of us did not want to tack onto this nonsense defending a woman who certainly doesn’t need it and who is not suffering based on anything LIl Wayne has said, then “we are hating on her b/c she is a light skinned Latina” “We are hating on her b/c of her past as a groupie” “we don’t care b/c she is not Black”.

These are the kind of asinine discussions that keep Black women from moving forward. There are more important issues to worry about than some former groupie now married and living the life of luxury with her new husband and two children, being called out by some dumb rapper who looks like a Gremlin!

How about women and girls who are really suffering and they do not have the resources, TIME, nor money to stand up and defend themselves?

This is what I mean about Black women just concerning themselves with people and things that do not care nor concern themselves with us. Her BLACK HUSBAND & ATTORNEYS are the only people who should be concerned with defending her.  Not a bunch of random Black women on a blog.

And to top it off, this woman and her husband are not even giving attention to this stupidity themselves! They have chosen to take the high road and ignore Wayne’s stupidity. Yet we got a bunch of Black women MORE upset about what happened to her than she is about what happened to her. LOL

MAMMY behavior.

This has got to stop. Black women need to understand that certain things and people do not need us. We need to help women and others who NEED IT. We need to invest any energies in ourselves and others (not like ourselves) who are TRULY suffering and need our help. Not people who already have things and people in place to defend their honor, name and life.
WTH is this woman going to gain by me and a bunch of random regular BW standing up for her?

This is yet another case of Black mammying gone wild!

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92 Comments (+add yours?)

  1. Neecy
    Feb 22, 2013 @ 00:31:26

    Come on now ladies you guys know Captain Save a hoe in the pic is HAAAAWWWT!!!! Tee hee heeee!!!

    And fellas you strive to be like him. 😉

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  2. Meena
    Feb 22, 2013 @ 01:42:16

    As soon as I read that heading I thought the exact thing! Why in heavens are we even posting this? The common denominator that we should be looking for is whether it hurts black women or a prominent black woman, that in tern could affect the image of all black women within the country and across the world. Not about a DBR bm. Thank you for posting this. I knew I couldn’t have been the only one who saw the ridiculousness of the article.

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    • Neecy
      Feb 22, 2013 @ 08:18:30

      OH God! I come back from being away from the net for over a week, looking forward to catch up on the recent posts on BB&W and that is the first thing I see. Literally being told “WHY I SHOULD CARE” about what happened to Adrienne Bosh. So I expect to open this post seeing some real heart wrenching stuff that this woman supposedly went through at the hands of Lil Wayne, and instead I am met with some nonsense about him saying he screwed her. And that I NEED TO CARE ABOUT THIS b/c this “beautiful attractive young Latina who is of venezualen decent” (WTH does that have to do with anything) and has been wifed up with kids now, is being tarnished by this atrocity Lil Wayne.

      WHAT?? Are you kidding me!??? *Jesus take the Wheel please!!*

      And b/c I choose not to care, its bc I wish to not defend a woman with a sketchy past, or b/c she is not Black or b/c I do not see the importance of this incident?

      I see how so many Black women can’t seem to help themselves. Too many BW are obsessed with rescuing women who DO NOT NEED TO BE RESCUED by us bc they are GOOD.

      This is not about being selfish and not caring about what happens to other women even if they are not Black. But seriously couldn’t a better example been used to get this point across – other than some former RICH groupie getting put on blast by some rapper she screwed????

      And just b/c some basketball player wifes up a former groupie and turns a hoe into a housewife I am suddenly supposed to bow down and honor her bc she managed to snag some BB player and had kids with him?

      OH GOD!! Sometimes the mind just….boggles!

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  3. roslynholcomb
    Feb 22, 2013 @ 07:29:13

    I think black women have the hardest time dealing with things as they are and not as we would have them be. IMO some of this is based in Christian indoctrination, dp onto others… We seem to really believe that if we’re good to others, they’ll be good to us. totally delusional in that we keep believing it in spite of proof to the contrary. People take our support for granted. get angry when they don’t receive it, and shit on us repeatedly. Yet we continue, and somehow manage to miss the Biblical admonishment against casting your pearls before swine. Nobody values a doormat and a sucker. Black women have repeatedly shown our willingness to carry water for others without ANY reciprovity. We will not receive any support until we show ourselves to be worthy of support. That will only come through our empowerment of ourselves and one another. There are no shortcuts, and suporting others who don’t support you is simply a path to firther degradation and humiliation.

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    • Neecy
      Feb 22, 2013 @ 08:32:42

      OMG ROSLYN!!!!! How the heck are you??? And how is your son (I know he’s gotta be a teenager by now right!!?

      Anyway,

      You hit it on the head. I do believe that many BW believe its the “Christian way” to constantly throw herself down as the doormat to help everyone else. My dad’s mother is guilty of this thinking and I and her youngest daughter are constantly telling her that its not the kind of thinking or thing she should be proud of.

      I also ask her to reflect on what her thinking has gotten for her besides, stress, heartache and feeling used.

      My grandmother believes that constantly giving to her trifling assed kids and people who don’t do anything for her, always using her, refuses to help themselves (b/c they have her there to clean up their mess and help) that she is doing the “Christian thing”. But when she turns around and needs help or something from them, she sees NOTHING in return for all her efforts.

      I basically told her one day, after numerous listening sessions and crying sessions that “no one does anything for her” that she is being foolish and that her actions have nothing to do with being Godly but more foolish. She looked at me like I was crazy. But its true. Too many Black women believe that carrying everyone else’s burden is some Godly thing. NO. ITS JUST PLAIN STUPID especially when this behavior has not garnered anything in return for Black women expect pain, stress, suffering and feeling alone and without support.

      As you said, its one thing to extend and support people who are also doing the same for you. But its another thing when its one sided with one person always doing the giving and never receiving.

      Businesses don’t run that way and neither should people.

      Healthy people demand reciprocity before they continue to extend themselves, their resources and time to others.

      Black women defending some groupie Ltaina woman who was most likely competing with many other Black groupies to win the affections of a rich athlete, is not someone I feel I need to defend. Let her husband and attorneys defend her.

      This obsession Black women have with rescuing and defending the very women & men who aint doing jack isht for them is really sad!

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      • roslynholcomb
        Feb 22, 2013 @ 08:56:06

        My little guy is awesome. He’s almost two. Chevk my blog for an embarassing number of pictures! LOL My mama was much the same as your grandmother. Lord, the horror stories I could tell. I think women like this only get self worth and sense of value only through being of service to others. When my mama was diagnosed with breast cancer I moved her to my house where my husband I waited on her hand and foot. She couldn’t stand not being “of use” so we had to come up with things for her to help us with! Their sense of value is so low they don’t think they’re worth anything except through what they can do for others.

        I’m not a Christian, but I don’t think any God worth worshipping would expect his people to be a doormat. But when you don’t value yourself that’s all you can be. That’s why I’ve said and continue to say that BWE must be focused on improving our belief in our own value. Otherwise, we will simply go from being doirmats for white men to being doormats for everybody else.

        Black women are like the kid who is so desperate to be a part of the “in” group that they put up with all manner of fuckery. They chase behind them. Give them their money and all they earn is disdain and disgust. Why on earth would anyone value us? We don’t value ourselves. So much so that we’re supposed to throw ourselves on a grenade for any trash that comes along, all the while begging them to love us while we lick their boots.

        IMO, black women are so focused on others because it’s so hard to turn inward and work on ourselves. This too is tied to the obesity issue: It’s easier to stuff your face than face your stuff. And better yet, we get to play martyr and get idolized for being “strong.” When in actuality we are the weakest because we don’t take care of the most important person: OURSELVES.

        This obsessive need to look outside ourselves is indicative of just how dire our state is. Black women calling themselves empowered are chasing men of other races and degrading themselves just as they did for black men. This is not empowerment. This is same shit, another color, and it’s what I always knew would happen if we didn’t take the time to focus on who and what we are and how to evolve and empower OURSELVES.

        Interracial dating, in and of itself is not the path to empowerment. Weak, un empowered women will simply find abusive relationships with those of other races. There is something sick and malformed in the minds of many black women. Damage. Damage that can only be resolved through self awareness and possible therapy. Until then the cycle of abuse will only continue.

        When we evolve to the point that self love is a matter of course, we will stop running around begging others to love us. They will love and support us because like all human beings we are worthy of love.

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        • Neecy
          Feb 22, 2013 @ 09:23:25

          TWO?? You had another baby boy!! LOL Where the heck have I been! Congrats (will be checking out the photos).

          But I can actually take what you said and make a post out of this Roz! Its beyond the truth.

          It seems as if Black women feel that the more they give and help and over extend that SOMEDAY, SOMEBODY, SOMEONE will finally give her that recognition and love she deserves.

          This is why so many Black women feel if they keep shoving their heads up BM’s asses, one day he is gonna finally wake up and APPRECIATE and love the Black woman. That day is not gonna happen and many BW refuse to just accept it.

          But I will tell you what WILL happen. The day BW start living their lives and looking out for numero uno, suddenly people will stop having these lowly EXPECTATIONS. I see it now. I notice BW who refuse to be someone’s doormat or who refuse to feed into BM’s egos are the BW who get the most respect from BM!

          The same applies in the larger society. Too many BW are willing to simply go with the status quo and keep others from feeling threatened. That is why we jump on campaigns like “FAT ACCEPTANCE” b/c we get suckered into believing that we are *REALLY* benefiting when we join Non Black women int heir fat acceptance campaigns. NO all we are doing is digging ourselves into a bigger hole and keeping ourselves out of the *GAME* so to speak when it comes to competing for the affections of high quality men who want fit and healthy women. Not only that, we are hurting our health and you can pull up any health report online and Black women are usually leading the pack in the higher numbers when it comes to low quality health.

          And you are right. When you don’t value yourself, you place all that value you would have in yourself onto others. You see this a lot with many older Black women. I can’t fully blame them b/c of the time and era, but there is no need or reason for Black women today to continue with this way of thinking and doing. Its actually hurting BW more than anything.

          BUt when we look at people (or women) who are most revered, loved, respected, they are women who have boundaries. WOmen who always manage to maintain a HEALTHY balance of being nurturing and kind and caring, but never so foolish that they extend these benefits to people who will take her kindness and good qualities and simply use it solely to their advantage and at her expense.

          This is something many Black women need to learn – HAVING BOUNDARIES. Its like as you said so many Black women just cast their pearls before the swine.

          And I have spent a lot of time on this blog pointing out that just because a Black woman chooses to date interracially doesn’t make her EMPOWERED. This is why I balk at this idea that BWE’s foundation starts mainly with Black women expanding their dating options.

          There are a lot of Black women who need NOT be trying to cross the color lines, b/c all they are going to do is bring their dysfunction and damage to the other side and they will also continue to attract the same kinds of loser males but of different races.

          As my grandmother used to say “You can’t put sugar over shit!”. Black women need to fix what’s going on internally FIRST. Trying to mask it with changing the race of the man is not solving the root of the problem and the dysfunction will eventually manifest.

          There are simply waaay too many damaged Black women in the world to think that changing the man’s skin color is going to make her life better.

          BWE needs to start with looking inward. And sometimes you have to be a bit selfish and all about SELF when you are trying to become a better person or a person working on becoming stronger within. You cannot do this and tackle on everyone else’s issues and expect to see positive results.

          That is why I say Black women can stand to be a bit more selfish at least UNTIL we have realized that we are valuable and worthy of being love and receiving reciprocation in positive ways.

          I look at my grandmother and she is the poster child for Black women like this and I thank God everyday I am not like this. It must be a miserable life constantly feeling as if you always have to be the doormat to everyone else who is not returning the favor.

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  4. Elegance
    Feb 22, 2013 @ 07:35:22

    LOL Neecy 🙂 I started reading this article and agreeing. I had the suspicion that you were probably thinking about this basketball incident and I was right! I saw the title of an article (on a blog we have both frequented) and I decided that the was no reason for me to care about the incident so I haven’t even read it yet. I know that the author has a habit of writing articles where we are supposed to get angry and outraged so I have been skipping them.

    I totally agree, this woman is married, with kids, rich and happy so why am I concerned? I have none of those things and I would rather focus my time on getting my happiness than on her’s. She does not need my help. BW have more pressing issued to deal with. Her husband can defend her honor, that’s his job and her job. She can probably call up CNN and start an anti-rap campaign (actually she probably won’t since her husband is a Black man, who works with other BM who love the rap industry). But she could do it if she wanted to. She can sue Lil Goblin if she wants. Rappers like him have been insulting BW for decades. Plus, I’m already one of those women who don’t support rappers so there is no reason for me to get outraged again. I want all misogyny in rap to stop, not just because of this incident but because of everything else.

    Plus, he said he slept with her..so what? I’m guessing he said more and worse things? My only thought was how could she sleep with that goblin and she is lucky she didn’t get pregnant with his demon spawn like Lauren London (I stopped liking her after she had his baby because she obviously has no sense and is not the type of woman I can relate to). If women sleep with a man then they made that choice and he may make the choice to tell other people about it, so again I’m wondering why I should care? I’m going to read the article now 🙂

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    • Neecy
      Feb 22, 2013 @ 08:43:39

      EXACTLY Elegance!!

      Oh the horror Lil Wayne put some former groupie he slept with on blast. Boo freakin Hoo!! OK yeah it was dumb, stupid and childish on his part, but that is what she has a DAMN HUSBAND for – to defend her!

      But the craziest part? SHE and her own HUSBAND refused to address this nonsense. But yet we have (in true fashion) the MAMMY brigade & Calvary of Black women feeling the need to make this a priority in our lives to address this issue?

      And as many said, sometimes our past has crazy ways of catching up to us. So if she slept with a dumb rapper, don’t be surprised later on when dumb rapper does the dumb rapper thing.

      Why a site dedicated to the improvement in lives of Black women would make such a big whoop about some craziness like that is beyond me!

      And yes this all goes back to women making better CHOICES in the men they date and sleep with. WHY? Because when you lay down with a dog you are bound to catch fleas. So chose to lay with a dirty no good rapper and he is doing what dirty no good rappers do – demean and put women on blast.

      At the end of the day ole Adrienne Bosh is gonna be juust fine sitting up in her mansion with her luxuries and lifestyle afforded to her by her rich wealthy husband. Do you think she was worried about all the suffering Black women in the Black communities across America? Is she going to encourage her wealthy Black husband to divorce her adn share his resources with Black women? HELL NO!!

      Meanwhile we have Black women who will barely scratch the surface of what Adreinne has accumulated wealth wise dying to help this woman. Black women who do not even have men or husbands in their lives to defend them. A woman who if she were really bothered by his comments could afford some of the best attorneys Miami has to offer.

      Yet its up to us regular ole Black women to make this wrong a right for this precious, poor beautiful venezualen latina who has reformed her groupie ways and changed her life. We have to HONOR her and cherish her now that she is a wife and mother of two.

      THE.MIND.BOGGLES.

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  5. Elegance
    Feb 22, 2013 @ 08:15:31

    So I read the article…I’m supposed to defend this strange woman because someone she slept with told other people about it? No thank you. Yes that was totally a mammy article and utterly ridiculous. That woman made her choices and now she is living with it. I am not defending Lil Goblin in any way shape or form either, he is consistently a jerk so this comes as no surprise. She wanted the spotlight and she got it. There are TONS of celebrities and the whole world knows who they slept with so why is this different? This is why women need to be selective with their partners because it can ruin their reputations.

    Nowadays with how casual people are about sex they are also casual about telling people about their partners and making flings public. If you sleep with misogynists you should not be surprised if they disrespect you. He is not a gentleman, but this is nothing to be outraged about. Basically the article is saying its fine if women sleep with whoever they want, party all they want, and be groupies but when other people talk about it or dislike it a crime has been committed! It’s so funny when women advocate for modern views about sex yet they expect people to have old fashioned mannerisms and not gossip or talk about women’s sexual history. If who someone sleeps with is no big deal then why can’t Lil Goblin talk about it? He was there too.

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    • Neecy
      Feb 22, 2013 @ 08:52:08

      Elegance you hit it on the head!

      It’s so funny when women advocate for modern views about sex yet they expect people to have old fashioned mannerisms and not gossip or talk about women’s sexual history.

      Juts like in my other article I pointed out that women CANNOT have it both ways. You cannot expect to be a “modern woman” who sleeps around and does all kinds of craziness and then expect people to revere you as Mother Teresa later on b/c you married and settled down. So people should just forget about the fact that she was a proud groupie who slept around and partied suddenly b/c she is now a mother and wife? HA!

      There goes that flawed feminist “logic” again.

      She lived a life where she wanted to be free to screw rich and famous men like Lil Wayne, despite his obvious misogyny towards women, and now we have to clutch our pearls and act shocked b/c he is doing as expected of a mysogonist rapper and telling the world he slept with her?

      OH WELL! I’m sure she is not going to suffer int he least. She is doing just fine with ample resources to defend herself and name against Lil Wayne and his slander if she chooses.

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  6. Neecy
    Feb 22, 2013 @ 09:36:06

    In terms of people trying to turn this “event” into defending against misogyny – I call bullshit!

    BW have been the targets and ire of so many rappers hateful demeaning maligning misogynist lyrics for over TWO DECADES NOW, and suddenyl b/c some former Latina groupie is called out by one, we gotta parade and march in the name of DEFENDING AGAINST MISOGONISTS?

    LOL! Whatever!

    This issue did not start with Adrienne BOSH. There are a billion other cases where BW could have used public support for being maligned by some lunatic woman hating Black man.

    Now we are supposed to be overly concerned with Lil Wayne saying he “F&%^” some former groupie? Well if he did he did! Isn’t that the same site where women are saying how they should be proud of the fact that they have lived whatever kind of sexual lifestyle and should not be ashamed of it? Now b/c said woman is married and acting like Miss Cleaver, we have to ignore the facts?

    Yes women with good reputations are typically going to be more protected. That is just how it has always been. As I said, women cannot live the careless and carefree life and expect to be protected. Were they protecting themselves when they were sleeping around with all kinds of loser dudes and not only risking thier health but sanity?

    If you make bad choices, you have to accept that sometimes they will come back to bite you it the ass. If you are a woman that wants to sleep around casually and party HAVE AT IT! But do not be surpirsed or expect people to simply forget about your past b/c you decided to change your life around and become a housewife and mother.

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  7. Neecy
    Feb 22, 2013 @ 09:50:21

    Another thing, this obsession regular people have with celebrities and their nonsense is crazy.

    Tons of celebrities get trashed, lied on and put on blast about their past DAILY by mags, gossip sites, regular people and even by other celebrities.

    Why do regular people have to make their problems a priority in our lives when they have more than enough resources and finances to protect their name and defend themselves?

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    • roslynholcomb
      Feb 22, 2013 @ 10:18:12

      IMO black women consume entirely too much media, and this is detrimental to our emotional and mental health. i truly believe growing up in a household without cable and very limited television watching is one of the best things to ever happen to me. We don’t have cable now and haven’t for several years. We stream movies, and I watch a few tv shows. I’ve never seen a reality show and have no desire to. I don’t follow most black media because it’s full of fuckery. I’ve gradually stop reading black women’s blogs because they spend all their time collecting the crass mouthings of insane black men as though they were Faberge eggs. I really don’t care what these idiots say and am profoundly baffled as to why black women do. as Khadija said, black women are the only ones listening to black men. For the life of me I understand the need to be there to smell it every time a black man farts.

      I listen to npr, but don’t watch tvnews at all. I stopped watching the news after the 2008 election. The coverage was just awful. NPR gives you the facts without the fuckery, and I love it.

      My 8 yo son watches tv on the weekend ONLY, and even then it’s very limited as we’re usually busy with activities. One of my proudest moments came when we were watching the Superbowl and he asked who is Beyonce? i turned off the halftime show as I don’t think it was appropriate for kids. The most empowering black women can do is cut the cable and limit mediaconsumption. I’ve never been a big tv watcher and was amazed at the change in my outlookfrom limiting it even more.

      Gina on What About Our Daughters is blogging the 7 Habits of Highly Effective People and talks about limiting your concerns to those things you actually have power or influence over. We have no power or influence over these celebrities, thus they should not be of concern to us.

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      • Neecy
        Feb 24, 2013 @ 14:32:35

        Roz I completely agree. Black women need to stop injesting so much media and turn off the televisions. b/c these days its not very healthy way for us to improve. There are waay too many Black women who cannot separate what they see b/c they are not strong internally to reject the images and messages. Even I, watch very little television, and when I do its b/c I am really bored or just looking for something to do temporarily (usually i like to watch movies).

        I am a firm believer that many Black women should bow out of mainstream media b/c its simply not for us. We are more focused on trying to get in where we DONT fit in, instead of only partaking in things that are welcoming to us as women.

        Reality Tv shows are the biggest culprit in keeping these nasty images of Black women b/c certain types of BW are sought after for these shows.

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    • Elegance
      Feb 22, 2013 @ 12:00:23

      YES! This is the perfect example of where sleeping with a man who doesn’t care about you can come back and haunt you. Now Ms. Bosh wants to be respectable as a wife and is giving to charities and people are calling her a goldigger because she was a groupie (instead of working for herself), and bringing up her past dealings with rappers and posing in skin mags. Being scandalous and not respectable has come back to get her.

      I swear, some women can not understand the difference between present reality and an idealized world where there is no sexism. In today’s world if you sleep with a rapper he is likely to tell, people look down on groupies and think they sleep around, and you can get a bad reputation if you sleep with the wrong men. Plus, if you are slandered, people will be less likely to come to your defense because since you made your bed they expect you to lie in it.

      Yes that article was ridiculous mammy stuff and feminist craziness. They are fine with her partying and sleeping with rappers but they expect everyone to forget about it? They expect us to come to her defense when other people talk about her past behaviour? This woman is not a victim! She chose to sleep a misogynist rapper with him and to marry a famous person! If you are famous people will find out about you!

      In my opinion not caring about who someone has sex with goes hand in hand about not caring if people know about it, and talking openly about it without shame. If you sleep with 50 people I think some or most of them have probably told someone else about it. Nowadays, if you are even seen on a date with a man or he is your boyfriend they will assume you have sex. If you have had 10 boyfriends they assume you have had sex with at least 10 men. It’s not a secret and expecting it to be kept a secret is sooo naive I am just shocked at the way these women think.

      That article and some of the comments are just over the top self-destructive, lack of self-preservation, non common sense, illogical thinking!

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      • Neecy
        Feb 24, 2013 @ 14:43:20

        Yep its funny how the contradictions of these so called pro feminist women come out when they are trying to hold onto to conflicting arguments. One hand they want to say how they should not be ashamed of their sexual lifestyles nor the fact that they can party it up and sleep around with losers as they wish, but then turn around and cry foul when these same kinds of men they used for money or for popularity (despite the fact they are misogynists) turn on them and put their sexual history on blast.

        Its beyond annoying to listen to these women grovel about contradictory ideals b/c they want to have their cake and eat it too.

        The fact is feminist women like the author and some of the posters can’t see the forest for the trees. They feel they should be able to act like men in their sexual lives, but be treated like ladies once *THEY* decide they want to become housewives and mothers.

        Doesn’t work that way. If you want to be respected, the best thing is to lead as much of a respectable life as you can. You can’t expect to be some high profile groupie on the scene who was fin e with messing around with misogynists b/c they had money and fame, and then try to act like June Cleaver (or expect people to treat you as such) once you decide to settle down.

        My mother always told me be careful about what you do b/c your past is not always erasable, nor will people always forget about the things you did despite making a change.

        While I think its good for people to make positive changes in their lives, people also need to realize that when you lead a high profile kind of life like Mrs. Bosh did as a groupie, you can’t suddenly turn that off and expect people to see you as mother Teresa.

        if you lay with dogs, don’t be surprised when you get fleas.

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  8. Afrostyling
    Feb 22, 2013 @ 10:50:18

    Thank you for this. That article was a hot mess. I’m supposed to care that some privileged woman is being dragged through the mud. Its not my problem and i refuse to make it mine. I refuse to expend my energy on something that has absolutely no bearing on my livelihood. I don’t understand why this concept is so hard for some black women to grasp. Even with friends, I let them know i will be there for them but the moment you start making it a habit to unburden your sorrows on me is the day i start blocking your calls. Adrienne has more than enough people to defend her and the money too. So why should i care? Even if she wasn’t privileged, i still wouldn’t give a rats ass. Whats next? Defending Lena Dunham and Kardashian.

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    • Neecy
      Feb 24, 2013 @ 15:18:44

      EXACTLY! Funny how you mentioned that sometimes people feel like they can just unburden their sorrow onto you. I was seeing a therapist who spoke about this. I was telling him of my g/f who is a co worker who is depressed and hates the job and she is always unloading her issues on me which was further making me depressed and constantly having feelings of negativity.

      He told me that it was not my job or anyone’s job to have other people’s issues unloaded on them, and that she needs to get a therapist who can manage those feelings without internalizing it.

      People do think that their friends should be the ones to have to deal with their issues, when their friends have their own issues they are trying to manage.

      He said its very unhealthy to be a person that others unload their burdens on b/c unless a person is equippped to be able to remove that stuff in a healthy way (like a therapist, psychiatrist or counselor who is trained to not internalize other people’s issue but look at them more objectively), it will consume the person receiving others burdens and only add to their own issues.

      This goes back to the Mammy Black woman. If she is constantly being that person that has everyone else unload on them, then she is not only dealign with her own issues, but now she has to find a way to process and remove all of the burdens unloaded on her. if she has no professional training to know how to do this, she is only making her life and emotional state worse.

      So from that moment forward, I decided that I am not going to be the person to have to constantly listen to someone complaining about how horrible thier life is. They need to get professional help with someone who can help them work out theor issues and who can manage to not allow that person’s issues to be consumed,.

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      • Afrostyling
        Feb 27, 2013 @ 13:07:32

        It really is a horrible thing to do to someone else. I can understand listening to your sorrows once but if you are not doing anything to change your situation, i don’t need nor want to hear it. As for that article, i was wondering at what point the writer would realize what the hell she was writing. The audacity to tell us to get up in arms because some woman got called out her name. First and foremost, any woman that sleeps with that hoodbooger lil wayne is already a lesser in my opinion. This is why i cant even stand to look at Lauren London anymore.Maybe because his targets have always been black women, she (Adrienne) thought he would never drag her through the mud too. That’s what happens when you lay with wild animals and in bred fools.

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  9. Robynne
    Feb 22, 2013 @ 13:43:20

    Lol, before I delved into the comments here I knew which blog inspired this post. I know that you know better than to frequent certain other ratchet spaces, so it could only be one other place. Anyhoo, never heard of these people until today, and I still don’t care. Like y’all said, Mrs. lBasketball wife is quite fine without legions of zombified bw rallying on her behalf. She is rich, married and cossetted; she also comes from a demographic where they don’t make it a visible practice to devalue the women of the group. She is more than fine. She has a rich husband and plenty of $$$ to take care of herself. The mules on the other hand, not so much. They should be worrying about themselves, and not about rich, famous people who don’t know, or care that they exist. If these bw were really are concerned about what turds like little Wayne are doing to women, maybe they could have started with his first targets – bw like themselves.
    Plus, some of those articles are posted for the sole purpose of creating controversy and driving traffic to that space. It is a business.

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    • Neecy
      Feb 24, 2013 @ 15:24:12

      That is just what i cannot seem to process. The author and others on there acting as if this woman is helpless and unable to handle this situation. She has plenty of resources AND A HUSBAND to deal with that nonsense. yet the mules nad mammies need to have something to fight for that doesn’t need their help.

      I do not GET IT at all. No other group consumes themselves so much with acting like saviors of others than Black women and what do Black women see as a result of thier Soldiering and “SAVING”? Nothing!

      And yes when i went back and re-read that article, it was clear the author was using certain words and such to create controversy. I think i have to go back to my original plan and stay away from nonsense like that b/c all its their to do is stir trouble. its becoming clear that not everyone on that site is really about the improvement of Black women but rather making asinine posts and threads that do nothing to improve anything but create drama.

      How anyone with a straight face can make a post like that and think they should be taken seriously is mind boggling. What a joke. I laughed so hard after reading that nonsense b/c I could not believe someone would be that damn brave to suggest or even write an article like that on a site like that.

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  10. Jer Littrell
    Feb 22, 2013 @ 14:03:55

    Your post reminded me of a excerpt I read from an Ayn Rand novel:

    “Why is it moral to serve the happiness of others, but not your own? If enjoyment is a value, why is it moral when experienced by others, but immoral when experienced by you? If the sensation of eating a cake is a value, why is it an immoral indulgence in your stomach, but a moral goal for you to achieve in the stomach of others? Why is it immoral for you to desire, but moral for others to do so? Why is it immoral to produce a value and keep it, but moral to give it away? And if it is not moral for you to keep a value, why is it moral for others to accept it? If you are selfless and virtuous when you give it, are they not selfish and vicious when they take it? Does virtue consist of serving vice? Is the moral purpose of those who are good, self-immolation for the sake of those who are evil?”

    “The answer you evade, the monstrous answer is: No, the takers are not evil, provided they did not earn the value you gave them. It is not immoral for them to accept it, provided they are unable to produce it, unable to deserve it, unable to give you any value in return. It is not immoral for them to enjoy it, provided they do not obtain it by right.”

    “Such is the secret core of your creed, the other half of your double standard: it is immoral to live by your own effort, but moral to live by the effort of others—it is immoral to consume your own product, but moral to consume the products of others—it is immoral to earn, but moral to mooch—it is the parasites who are the moral justification for the existence of the producers, but the existence of the parasites is an end in itself—it is evil to profit by achievement, but good to profit by sacrifice—it is evil to create your own happiness, but good to enjoy it at the price of the blood of others.”

    “Your code divides mankind into two castes and commands them to live by opposite rules: those who may desire anything and those who may desire nothing, the chosen and the damned, the riders and the carriers, the eaters and the eaten. What standard determines your caste? What passkey admits you to the moral elite? The passkey is lack of value.”

    “Whatever the value involved, it is your lack of it that gives you a claim upon those who don’t lack it. It is your need that gives you a claim to rewards. If you are able to satisfy your need, your ability annuls your right to satisfy it. But a need you are unable to satisfy gives you first right to the lives of mankind.”

    “If you succeed, any man who fails is your master; if you fail, any man who succeeds is your serf. Whether your failure is just or not, whether your wishes are rational or not, whether your misfortune is undeserved or the result of your vices, it is misfortune that gives you a right to rewards. It is pain, regardless of its nature or cause, pain as a primary absolute, that gives you a mortgage on all of existence.”

    “If you heal your pain by your own effort, you receive no moral credit: your code regards it scornfully as an act of self-interest. Whatever value you seek to acquire, be it wealth or food or love or rights, if you acquire it by means of your virtue, your code does not regard it as a moral acquisition: you occasion no loss to anyone, it is a trade, not alms; a payment, not a sacrifice. The deserved belongs in the selfish, commercial realm of mutual profit; it is only the undeserved that calls for that moral transaction which consists of profit to one at the price of disaster to the other. To demand rewards for your virtue is selfish and immoral; it is your lack of virtue that transforms your demand into a moral right.”

    “A morality that holds need as a claim, holds emptiness—non-existence—as its standard of value; it rewards an absence, a defect: weakness, inability, incompetence, suffering, disease, disaster, the lack, the fault, the flaw—the zero.”

    (http://aynrandlexicon.com/ayn-rand-works/for-the-new-intellectual.html)

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    • Neecy
      Feb 24, 2013 @ 15:32:33

      “A morality that holds need as a claim, holds emptiness—

      I agree with this. I believe too many people do good deeds b/c of a need to feel fulfilled by other’s reinforcement. instead one should be doing a good or moral act for their OWN purpose and not whether they will receive reinforcement from others.

      Now i am going to contradict myself a little here and say, that you should never do for ungrateful people who are out to use and take. And you should work together with others who are also willing to give back what you are giving in some situations and in some ways. Reciprocity. In this case, Black women SHOULD be seeking something in return in general when they are sacrificing something for others.

      i think that healthy human interactions consist when people are constantly reciprocating and expecting such in certain situations and circumstances.

      And I also agree with parts of the read that suggest that its not really immoral for takers to take from those who are willing to just give and demand nothing. Its no one’s fault if a person allows to be used and walked over by others, other than the person allowing it. You cannot expect people or others to always do the MORAL or right thing. You have to demand it or withdrawal.

      people who are most respected in this world and society are those who expect others in some fashion to give back what they are getting.

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      • Kiwiwriter
        Feb 24, 2013 @ 15:39:33

        Not a big fan of Ayn Rand, I’m afraid…she was a nutter, and her ideas on capitalism and individualism do not go well with me.

        But you cannot expect others to respect you if you do not respect yourself. Nor will you be able to respect others if you do not respect yourself. The same thing is true with honor.

        But I do remember that Dr. King said the basic question of life is what we do for others, and that resonates with me. I can proudly say that I have spent the last 22 years of my career in public service.

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  11. Mr SoBo
    Feb 22, 2013 @ 19:01:01

    Now that was a monster of a post. Took me almost three days to read it. Just joking.

    You know, I never considered the possibility that women can also fall into the category of being a super save em too. Hmmnn.. Very interesting perspective there.

    Anywho, I have taken notice of the white knighting in other regards which have turned my stomach to say the least. Particularly regarding some of the people and behaviors that were being defended by certain women. Made me really question their mind set as well as their general perspective on life.

    As far as the male white knights…. Sir Lancelots deserve no sympathy. I find them to be rather disingenuous since their motivation is to acquire brownie points and to ‘get in good’ with the women folk. No dignity. No doubt.

    Mr. SoBo
    OM

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    • Jer Littrell
      Feb 22, 2013 @ 20:13:25

      I think you make a good point. Most guys who complain about being “friend zoned” have hidden agendas and ulterior motives from the beginning. They are frustrated because they secretly hope that their “generosity” will translate into sex or an intimate relationship. But it rarely does…

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      • Neecy
        Feb 24, 2013 @ 15:49:59

        EXACTLY. Juts like the Black women who shout from the mountaintops their undying support for Black men. When really they have ulterior motives b/c they want Black men to give that back to them.

        You always know when a person is doing something from the heart or b/c they have ulterior motives. When doing something from the heart you do not get angry, complain or bitch when the other person doesn’t do that same thing for you. You just do it and continue to do it b/c that is what’s in your heart.

        When doing something and you EXPECT reciprocation, then you are very clear and upfront about it.

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    • Neecy
      Feb 24, 2013 @ 15:45:52

      Now that was a monster of a post. Took me almost three days to read it. Just joking.

      OH Mr SOBO you have no idea! LOL Neecy’s not one for brevity (not that I don’t wanna be, its just not one of my strengths. LOL

      But I agree. Sometimes people do things ingenuinley b/c they feel its going to get them brownie points.

      just like the White Knights and friend zone guy, a lot of times they are doing it b/c they are being ingenuine b/c they want the woman to do the same to them. This is different from expecting reciprocation, in which you are UP FRONT in some fashion about what you expect. The other party is not thinking that you are just doing and doing and not expecting. the other party (when reciprocation is wanted) is aware that they need to be giving back if they wish to keep receiving something from you.

      For instance, my grandmother is a good person and a very giving person. She says its in her Christian roots to be that way. But at the same time, she will also complain that she did something for someone and that person didn’t do anything for her. So her youngest daughter always asks her. Did she do something for the other person b/c it was from her heart or she did it b/c she was expecting something in return. if you are a Christian that believes in doing for others, then it should come from the heart with no expectations. But if you are a person that does things for others b/c you expect reciprocation then say that. And my aunt is right. Too many people do stuff then complain later when they do not get anything in return.

      i think a lot of Black women do this too. They feel they should give of themselves b/c its the Christian thing to do or “Godly way” and to not want something in return, but part of them does a good deed b/c they are in fact looking for some kind of reinforcement or “brownie points” and when they don’t get it they feel jipped.

      Enter the overwhelming support for Black men at all costs, and then bitching when Black men do not return the favor. Example would be, Black women claiming to only want to be exclusive to Black men b/c they just want to. But really they are only doing that b/c they want Black men to do the same and be exclusive to them.

      But when Black men show they have no interest in exclusivity with Black women, these same Black women complain and act as if its Black men’s DUTY to return the favor. They start guilting Black men about their choices that do not always include Black women/ WHY? Simply b/c they are being exclusive to Black men. These women were not being exclusive for their own reasons, they want to be exclusive b/c they have alterioir motives of wanting Black men to be exclusive to them. if they simply wanted to be exclusive to Black men with no other motives, they wouldn’t care if Back men were exclusive to them or not b/c they were not claiming exclusivity to Black men for any other reasons than just wanting to be exclusive to Black men. Whew! Hope that was clear. LOL

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  12. KimP
    Feb 23, 2013 @ 00:48:33

    Whew, I had to get up and walk away to process this! All I have to say is bravo, and thank you so much for your wonderful work on this piece.

    This needs to be one of those chainmail letters and every BW who has eyes to read or ears to hear someone read this needs see to receive this message!

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  13. Kia
    Feb 23, 2013 @ 07:56:45

    This topic also reminds me of the article from BB&W ‘Why Can White Women Get Married Five Minutes After a Divorce?’ A black man who was supposedly married to an asian woman. Came on the site to advise black women. Pretending to be concerned. Offered his advice while also criticizing black women. Claiming if black women would just fix themselves up and be more friendly and approachable. They wouldn’t be single. When many black women already bend over backwards and do anything they can to appear more attractive to black men. And him not acknowledging all the black single mothers and the fact that black men game black women daily. Also mentioning how his asian wife was easier to get along with.
    When I and a non black man called him out on his gaslighting. Another black woman blogger defended the dbr black man’s comments. One of the moderators on the site told me that I was being inappropriate and publicly attacking and shaming the blogger who was defending the dbr black man. I said it was pathetic how some black women defend black men that denigrate them. And pick a part the comments of non black men that defend them. These type of black women still have dbr black mindset.

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    • Neecy
      Feb 24, 2013 @ 15:52:04

      Yes Kia its sad that some Black women still continue to support those who deginerate them. like Roz said, it is going to take a lot for Black women to undo this way of thinking. but time is running out. Enough is enough its time to get some common sense and STOP with this madness of constantly doormating for those who are just using you as their punching bag or stepping ladder.

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  14. Kia
    Feb 23, 2013 @ 07:58:35

    Agree 100% Neecy. Usually I agree with about 95% from BB&W. But articles like being a mammy for people who don’t care for or who will never help you. Pretending to be another race with online dating. New Wave feminism. Are hypocritical of what the site says its trying to do for black women. Celebrities trash each other daily. Celebs and everyone else have been trashing black women daily for decades. Why should I be concerned for some rich latina woman who isn’t doing anything to help black women? She seems to be doing just fine. This latina woman become a groupie/model to find a husband. She found one. The shady men she used to sex or now denigrating her publicly. That’s what happens when you sex random shady men. If she is bothered by them.

    She is free to take legal action. She also has the whole latino community to back her up. While she is living in a mansion with her family. There are black women suffering daily. Who are dying and being gamed in the black community. Black women who are being raped and killed all over the world. I’m not worried about some rich latina woman who isn’t using any of her resources to help other black women. Every race helps their own. Except black women. Many black women are still trying to mammy and mule for everyone on the planet. With no one looking out for them. That needs to stop. Because all black women suffer when they put everyone else’s needs before their own and don’t demand reciprication. The New Wave Feminsim – BB&W saying how women should be able to sex anyone they want and wear anything they want.

    But as soon as these types of women get married. The shady people they hung around or sexed or never allowed to mention their past. We’re supposed to be surprised when the random strangers they sexed to gain fame or fortune. Who may have had shady backgrounds or who are mysoginists come out and denigrate them publicly. I’m thinking, if women want to have sex with multiple men, fine. If they want to wait until they’re in a commited relationship or marriage, fine. They have to accept the consequences of what they do. And stop acting shocked that the random people or men they hung around. Come back to cause drama or chaos in their lives. Most women that are groupies, models, or video girls purposefully hang aroung mysoginist men, athletes, male celebs. Hoping for fame, money, or to become a wife. And in the groupie world. The ones that become wives are usually non black women.

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    • Neecy
      Feb 24, 2013 @ 15:56:54

      I agree. Its a woman’s choice to live the life she wants. If she wants to lead a life of sexing whoever whenever and hanging out and with misogynist men then fine. But do not act shocked when that lifestyle comes back to bit you in the ass. You cannot have it both ways and that is what I am always preaching here. Women need to pick a side, be comfy with it and stop with the straddling fence behavior.

      There are consequences to all kinds of lifestyles. If you want to live a life where you are highly sexually active and its a high profile life, then do not expect people to see you as Mother Teresa later when you change your lifestyle.

      Its like as I mentioned. These new wave feminists are full of shit when it comes to saying how they are proud to be able to sex it up all they want and not be ashamed about it. YET, when it comes a time in their life when they want to settle down or have a clean reputation, they get up in arms at the suggestion of their past.

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  15. Christa
    Feb 23, 2013 @ 08:50:25

    When black women stop muling and being mammies for everyone else. They will find true happiness. Black women are the only women on the planet who come in a variety of colors. All with their own unique beauty and talents. But many black women today are still in denial about black men. And wasting their lives with mysoginistic men who bring nothing to the relationship – financially or educationally. I’m not encouraging black women to be trophy wives. Just saying black women should highlight their positive attributes – Their beauty combined with their education and brain – to seek out succussful global quality men. This will give them the advantage over other women. I hear stories all the time of white women or white B list actresses that married a movie producer or ceo. And they’re now living nicely in luxury. No one calls them goldiggers – I would call that hypergamy. But when black women attempt to practice hypergamy. They’re labeled goldigger. Which is strange because most black men don’t have a lot to offer financially anyway.

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    • Neecy
      Feb 24, 2013 @ 16:01:31

      EXACTLY Christa!

      The reason Black women cannot move ahead is b/c Black women simply don’t know or are willing to accept their value.

      White women KNOW thier value and know how to use that to get what they want. Granted they do and have had that positive reinforcement from others from the time they are born, that helps a lot. But Black women have to stop acting as if they have to have it like White women in order to love and appreciate themselves.

      IOW’s what i am saying is BW need to learn how to look within for reinforcement b/c unlike WHite women or other women we do not have the luxury of depending on outsiders to give ti to us. If Black women can see this as clear as day, why do we keep seeking to gain things from people who are not interested in giving it to us??

      The reality is it will ONLY BE Black women to build that positive reinforcement. We cannot look at White or other women’s situations and wait for it to change for us and work for us the way it has worked for them.

      And that is where all this mammying comes in. Black women believe by being everyone’s mammy and savior that people will start putting us on a pedestal. that is just NOT happening and never going to happen.

      People will actually start treating Black women better when Black women start treating and seeing themselves better.

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  16. Kia
    Feb 23, 2013 @ 11:31:14

    Forgot to add the black woman from BB&W complaining that she couldn’t find a husband because she had to compete with slutty women that sexed men all the time. I’m telling her – there will always be sexually promiscuous men and women. Its been that way since the beginning of time. But not all men want that type of woman. If you expand your criteria and options with men. You should have no trouble finding a man that wants to commit to you or a husband. She kept whining about how women should stop being slutty and sexing men. I told her you can’t control what other people do with their lives. You can advise them and they may or may not choose to take your advice. But that’s all you can do. That’s life. I wish black men would stop gaming black women. But they never will. That’s why I read blogs where black women are living their lives free and away from the black community mindset. And advise each other about life and relationships. Who warn each other to stay away from dysfunctional black people who are in denial about what’s going on the black community. And to stop being a mule or mammy for lazy physically able bodied people who want to leech off you, or who are looking for a handout. In that way I feel black women are making a difference. You create your own life plan for yourself. And surround yourself with people that think the same as you. Rather than wishing that strangers would stop certain behaviors. When people are going to do what they want regardless of what other people think of them.

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    • Elegance
      Feb 23, 2013 @ 17:50:51

      Excuse me but I wrote that post you are referring to. I;m going to add, how is this post complaining about other women being mammys any different my my post complaining about other women sleeping around??? They are both blog posts complaining about the way other women’s behaviour hurts them and can also hurt BW as a whole. Do you not see that? Why are you not accusing Neecy of whining about the behaviour of others that she can not change? Why the double standard.
      Did you not read Neecy’s comments on that post and on this blog that were agreeing with my article??? You are just picking and choosing who you ridicule but BOTH articles are about how problematic we think other women’s behaviours are and we both know that we can only advise women and not change them. And no I have common sense and I will look for a man who will wait for me…duh, that’s why I pass over the one’s who won’t. I am not a freaking mammy!

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    • Neecy
      Feb 24, 2013 @ 16:06:47

      Kia while I agree with what you are saying, i think the point she was making was not that slutty women are keeping respectable women from getting married and finding quality men, but that when you have an overabundance of women who are not leading respectable lives, it creates a kind of STANDARD that makes it harder for all women to be taken seriously.

      That doesn’t mean that a decent woman cannot find a quality man. it just means there will be a lot more difficulty sifting through the swarms of men who are used to sluttier women giving them what they want without much effort on their parts.

      Women need to understand that a collective behavior that is done by the majority is going to be the leading ideal.

      just like int he 50’s when women were more chaste, women had better chances of marrying early and finding decent men whose expectations were that they had to be bringing something to the table, be of quality and PROVE themselves before a woman would be sexual with him. That was the ideal then. So the looser women were the minority who either went with the flow or had to accept that their way of seeing and doing was going to be a lot more difficult to be accepted by wonder society.

      the tables have turned and now the sluttier women are running things which DOES change how the sexual market place and men in general respond to women.

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  17. Kiwiwriter
    Feb 23, 2013 @ 12:55:19

    I think the “Mammy” has transmogrified into two characters: the female “Magic Negro” who acts as the hero’s “best friend” and source of advice and inspiration, while not having much of a story arc of her own.

    The other character is the hefty black family matriarch who spouts wisdom and reacts to every situation with grunts, and is a mix of annoyed anger and warmth.

    As far as Hattie McDaniel and her character in “Gone With the Wind” goes, I just think about how she earned that Oscar and couldn’t go to the premiere of the movie in Atlanta, which was nonsense. I never saw that flick from front to back, so I don’t recall offhand if Ms. McDaniel’s character had rellies and kids, but I don’t think she did. I rooted for the Union anyway. As far as I’m concerned, the Confederacy is not only racism, but high treason.

    By the way, Hattie McDaniel did get posthumous recognition…she’s on a postage stamp in the “Black Heritage” series. “GWTW” is also on a stamp in the 1989 commemoration of four great movies that year: “Stagecoach,” “Wizard of Oz,” “Beau Geste,” and “GWTW.” Tough year for Oscar voters.

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    • Neecy
      Feb 24, 2013 @ 16:20:54

      I think the “Mammy” has transmogrified into two characters: the female “Magic Negro” who acts as the hero’s “best friend” and source of advice and inspiration, while not having much of a story arc of her own.

      The other character is the hefty black family matriarch who spouts wisdom and reacts to every situation with grunts, and is a mix of annoyed anger and warmth.

      YES. Instead of the mammy being in an apron and maids attire, the modern day Black woman mammy doesn’t necessarily have to be fat and maid like. She is the carrier of everyone;s burdens. Always up and ready to go to bat for people who usually aren’t doing the dame for her. Always willing to overlook what she is going through.

      And yes in modern movies and Tv shows you see this kind of Black woman as the happy sidekick with no real story line or life of her own. Her whole existence in many movies and such is to be the “supporter” and nurser of the other person’s issues and needs.

      As far as Hattie McDaniel and her character in “Gone With the Wind” goes, I just think about how she earned that Oscar and couldn’t go to the premiere of the movie in Atlanta, which was nonsense. I never saw that flick from front to back, so I don’t recall offhand if Ms. McDaniel’s character had rellies and kids, but I don’t think she did. I rooted for the Union anyway. As far as I’m concerned, the Confederacy is not only racism, but high treason.

      By the way, Hattie McDaniel did get posthumous recognition…she’s on a postage stamp in the “Black Heritage” series. “GWTW” is also on a stamp in the 1989 commemoration of four great movies that year: “Stagecoach,” “Wizard of Oz,” “Beau Geste,” and “GWTW.” Tough year for Oscar voters.

      Nope. Mrs. Mc Daniels whole role in the film was to act as Mrs. Scarlet savior. I just can’t believe she won an Oscar for a role where her only story line was being a maid who ushered and catered to Scarlett. LOL

      I don’t think much has changed in mainstream film though although its slowly getting better for Black women with leading actresses like Zoe Zaladna getting more mainstream non traditional BW roles. But we still have a long way to go. It seems Black women are revered in movies and such when we are acting as “the help” or the asexual sidekick.

      I remember sitting one day watching the movie legally blonde (was at home sick and bored). it was a cute lighthearted movie, but one part made me cringe. It was a part where Reese was in the beauty salon and she started showing this kind of move called the “bend and snap”. Suddenly out of nowhere this EXTREMELY LARGE Black woman with braids and beads in her hair comes out and does this move that makes her look utterly ridiculous (b/c she was so overweight), and I just thought to myself “WHY???” Do they purposely put in ads for large unattractive Black women to participate in these movies?? LOL. It seems beyond coincidence at this point. This woman was so out of place. Its almost every movie I watch some large fat out of place woman is being shown. Maybe I am just overly sensitive, but what the average person doesn’t realize is, they subconsciously start seeing these things and internalizing this whether they know it or not.

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      • Kiwiwriter
        Feb 24, 2013 @ 18:17:44

        Nope. Mrs. Mc Daniels whole role in the film was to act as Mrs. Scarlet savior. I just can’t believe she won an Oscar for a role where her only story line was being a maid who ushered and catered to Scarlett. LOL

        I don’t think much has changed in mainstream film though although its slowly getting better for Black women with leading actresses like Zoe Zaladna getting more mainstream non traditional BW roles. But we still have a long way to go. It seems Black women are revered in movies and such when we are acting as “the help” or the asexual sidekick.

        I remember sitting one day watching the movie legally blonde (was at home sick and bored). it was a cute lighthearted movie, but one part made me cringe. It was a part where Reese was in the beauty salon and she started showing this kind of move called the “bend and snap”. Suddenly out of nowhere this EXTREMELY LARGE Black woman with braids and beads in her hair comes out and does this move that makes her look utterly ridiculous (b/c she was so overweight), and I just thought to myself “WHY???” Do they purposely put in ads for large unattractive Black women to participate in these movies?? LOL. It seems beyond coincidence at this point. This woman was so out of place. Its almost every movie I watch some large fat out of place woman is being shown. Maybe I am just overly sensitive, but what the average person doesn’t realize is, they subconsciously start seeing these things and internalizing this whether they know it or not.

        As I said: I never saw “Gone With the Wind” front to back, so I only catch portions. Hattie’s character does seem to be Scarlett’s prop in physical and emotional terms, with considerable wisdom and intelligence, but the role has been repeated in so many movies since then. I think she won the Oscar because she acted out the stereotype perfectly. I’m even amazed she was nominated.

        I do see black women often as the asexual sidekick…the role that sticks out in my mind is “Silence of the Lambs,” where Jodie Foster has a black female friends as an FBI trainee, and she fills that asexual sidekick role perfectly. I don’t even remember the actress’s name, just that she was cute. I saw the movie the night before i went in the Navy and it terrified the hell out of me. Good way to face Navy Induction Day. Haven’t seen the movie again since, it was so frightening.

        Never saw “Legally Blonde,” either. Usually I think of these roles from various situation comedies, where the main character faces such a woman at the DMV, on an airliner, or a restaurant, and they hilariously bicker. If it’s on an airliner, then they meet again and bicker again at the hotel. Then they meet and bicker again on the way back, on the returning airliner.

        Redd Foxx had a pal who exemplified the role to great effect…I think her name was LaWanda Paige or something like that. She played “Aunt Esther” in “Sanford and Son,” as this BIble-thumping harridan who endlessly threw slow-burn stares at Sanford, denouncing everything connected with sin. What made this work was that LaWanda was a terrific comedian, who had worked with Foxx, and the two were great pals. Furthermore, in LaWanda’s stage routine in comedy clubs and so on, she did an extremely raunchy act, the total opposite of Aunt Esther, so she was enjoying the joke for TV.

        The problem is…there are just enough women like that in real life for them to be a permanent stock joke.

        I think the fast food fried chicken industry has a lot to do with this.

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  18. neurochick
    Feb 23, 2013 @ 13:58:50

    I never even heard about that nonsense with Li’L Wayne but then again, I don’t care about him or anyone who has anything to do with him. He looks nasty and ugly, and let’s face it, if he were not famous, he couldn’t get a woman even if he had $500 in his pocket.

    I went to a school that was about 85% white and I saw and still see white women doing this where men are concerned. These women will pick a man who is totally damaged, usually an alcoholic or a drug addict and feel that “their love will save them.” It doesn’t work and the woman, if she’s lucky just gets hurt, if she’s not lucky she’ll wind up physically wounded or dead. And I’m not talking about liking bad boys, I’m talking about, “I need to save him, my love will save him.” I think this is some bill of goods that women have been sold, that we have the power to save a damaged man, no matter how damaged he is, and even if he wants to stay damaged. One thing I do know, you can’t save someone who doesn’t want your help, love doesn’t conquer all.

    Now, the truth is that black women too often do the same thing, think that if we run to someone’s defense, they’ll love us, that our love can save them. No, I don’t think so.

    Here’s my problem with the Mammy. Say I have a problem, I call a female friend for help, she’s older than me, or has more experience and I ask her for her advice. Now, that friend may talk to me, she may also tell me that she’ll call me later because she’s doing something IN HER LIFE. She may also not be there and I’ll get the answering machine. Because she is a real person. The Mammy isn’t a real person, she is a character, not a real person with real feelings and wants and needs. The Mammy character is a dangerous one because it makes people think that we black women ourselves don’t have any wants and needs that aren’t connected with saving others.

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    • Neecy
      Feb 24, 2013 @ 16:34:53

      ,strong>

      Now, the truth is that black women too often do the same thing, think that if we run to someone’s defense, they’ll love us, that our love can save them. No, I don’t think so.

      The Mammy character is a dangerous one because it makes people think that we black women ourselves don’t have any wants and needs that aren’t connected with saving others.

      Yes. And that is dangerous b/c when Black women are in a state of suffering many people are desensitized to feeling empathy b/c they feel we lack feelings, wants, needs and desires b/c we are never showing that we have that.

      I remember reading an article by Halima that said when Black women act as though we do not have the needs, desires and wants as all other women, we miss out on the 3 C’s. (can’t find it) but i think it was something like Courtesy, consideration and a couple of other things. But it makes sense. When BW other themselves as protectors and not to be protected, they get what they ask for. And then they wonder why other women are protected and such?

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      • arlyne
        Feb 27, 2013 @ 21:02:54

        COURTESY, COOPERATION, CONSIDERATION, AND CONCESSIONS!
        The thing I hate is that BW give these things to BM. BW are always too concerned with the plight of the BM. These are the 4 C’s that smart, feminine BW are getting from masculine men and not giving to unmasculine males. Feminine women do not take care of or protect grown men, no matter how unfair the situation.
        They realize, if he is to be a “big strong man”, he has to figure it out.

        Feminine women take care of themselves–first. They get their needs met–first. Because of this, they have plenty of energy to be sweetness and light.

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        • Neecy
          Mar 02, 2013 @ 20:20:17

          THANK YOU ARLYNE for posting the C;s. I searched high and low on her site and couldn’t find the article that had it – THANK YOU!

          Feminine women take care of themselves–first. They get their needs met–first. Because of this, they have plenty of energy to be sweetness and light.

          EXACTLY! Just think. If you are a woman that doesn’t have to carry other people’s burdens (and others don’t expect you too and will do everything possible to protect you from such) you have nothing else to do but be lighthearted, sweet and kind. When I look at other people saying how other races of Non Black women are so sweet and feminine acting compared to Black women who are typically more hardened, I say to myself “well i guess they would be if they are receiving the benefit of the doubt and more than enough protection from everyone”.

          That’s the thing people do not take into consideration when comparing Black women on average to others. Black women are generally carrying a lot more loads than other races of women b/c there is NO PROTECTION or real love from our men like other races of women have. We are left to be the protectors, fighters and burden carriers – something that men handle much better and are expected to in a patriarchal society.

          When Black women STOP feeling responsible for everyone else but themselves and start only dealing with people and things that are reciprocating, is when BW will get back thier light heartedness and femininity.

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  19. Socialkenny
    Feb 23, 2013 @ 15:55:17

    Lol how ironic I’d blogged about this months ago.

    This is exactly the reason why I don’t watch dumb shows like those Tyler Perry shit and all those movies where it’s the same stupid roles with fat black women.

    These mommy roles are just sickening to me.

    Another related thing I hate with a passion are those commercials with fat black women playing some dumb assistant role with that Southern accent like that woman in the Popeye’s commercial.

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    • Jer Littrell
      Feb 23, 2013 @ 19:11:11

      LMFAO! True!

      I was watching the movie AeonFlux the other night. Of course, the main character is a white woman. Then I got to thinking about why action films with female heroines are almost always white. The only “rare exceptions” would be some “Blaxploitation” film from the 1970s that were designed to make a satirical mockery of “black culture”. If it’s a non-white woman, then it’s most likely an Asian woman, like Michelle Yeoh in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. But most female heroines are white women like Angelina Jolie in Tomb Raider, Sigourney Weaver in Avatar and The Alien Trilogy, Linda Hamilton in The Terminator 1 & 2, Milla Jovovich in The Resident Evil Series, etc.

      These female heroines in action movies are “strong women” with “masculine qualities” but manage to balance that with the femininity of being very “sexy”.

      Interestingly, in my life experience, black women are generally better fighters than white women; on average. So not only is it racially biased to only have white women as heroines in action films, it doesn’t even reflect REALITY.

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      • Elegance
        Feb 23, 2013 @ 19:21:34

        I think Zoe Saldana has the potential to be an amazing and feminine action hero. She did Avataar, Columbiana, and The Losers. Naomi Harris could also do that too and she has been in 28 Days Later, Miami Vice, the latest Bond film, and After the Sunset, and Ninja Assassin…she plays cops a lot and she is a also seen as the love interest…often with non-Black men too…interesting…Seriously, other than Miami Vice, in all her action roles she has been paired with non-Black men.

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        • Jer Littrell
          Feb 23, 2013 @ 19:26:36

          True! But will she be the FOCAL POINT of the movie, or will she just be complementary to a white female star in the movie, or complementary to me a male hero who would most likely be non-black?

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          • Elegance
            Feb 23, 2013 @ 19:34:05

            Well, for me just being there as a love interest, working, and being an action star is a great start. Other than those two women I can’ think of any other Black actresses who are doing action type films in the past decade. Actually I notice now that in Zoe’s action roles she was also paired with White men. Both Zoe and Naomi have similar body types and are pretty feminine.

            I don’t think there are many action films nowadays where there is a female heroine nowadays. Usually they are complementary to a man. But I think that if in a movie the only female love interest is a Black woman then that is great progress. She is might be the second most important star in the film and it’s saying that Black women are acceptable as love interests and leading roles. I think it’s great. Being second most important in a huge blockbuster is fantastic and once people get used to that then being the lead won’t be shocking when it happens.

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            • Kiwiwriter
              Feb 24, 2013 @ 11:21:37

              I haven’t seen “Skyfall,” so I can’t comment, but Zoe Saldana raised the character of Uhura in “Star Trek” from “Hailing Frequencies Open” and “I’m frightened, Captain” to new levels. They addressed her first name (a long-running gag for true Trekkies), and gave her toughness, resilience, abilities, and most importantly, a vital love interest. (“She’s doing it with the ultimate nerd!”)

              Originally, Thandie Newton was to do the “Charlie’s Angels” movie re-make, but she either got injured or pregnant (I don’t remember which), and Lucy Liu was the substitute. I think Thandie did have a good action and romance role in a “Mission Impossible” movie with Tom Cruise (a likely romantic pairing).

              And who can forget Halle Berry as the Bond girl in “Tomorrow Never Dies,” doing homage to Ursula Andress in her bikini? Hubba hubba!

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      • Neecy
        Feb 24, 2013 @ 16:39:17

        Yes I think we are seeing SLOWLY more Black women in more action flicks and we are definitley seeing more as love interests of Non Black men in films which is progress. Like Naomi Harris and Zoe Zaldana. And these women also are not the atypical overweight sassy Black women.

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        • Kiwiwriter
          Feb 24, 2013 @ 18:23:09

          Yeah, the more we see of women like Naomie Harris, Thandie Newton, et al., the fewer mammies we’ll see.

          My advice to young black women is the same as my advice to everyone else: STAY AWAY FROM FRIED FOODS. That’s a major cause of ill health and obesity. I’m not talking about stereotypes, appearance, or images here…I’m talking about plain good health. Diabetes, heart conditions, obesity, are all caused by lousy diets.

          Don’t drink soda, don’t eat fried foods, avoid fast and processed foods. Eat fish and vegetables — a lot of vegetables — and exercise.

          We have a serious obesity issue in Newark, because of the “food deserts” created by lack of good markets, and kids and adults stock up on fried chicken, pizza, greasy sandwiches, chips, and sodas. And instead of exercising their bodies, they exercise their fingers, playing Nintendo. It’s not an ethnic issue. Ask Michelle Obama.

          The only good thing about the obesity crisis is that it’s turning kids who would be schoolyard bullies into fat slobs who can’t beat up anybody.

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    • Kiwiwriter
      Feb 24, 2013 @ 11:15:26

      The commercials with the fat black women…any time they have the fat black woman whose only line is a firm “umm humm,” and sits there angrily pouting, defiant to the main character…I mean, what kind of a cliche is this?

      It’s like all murder mysteries: who’s the killer? The person who is nicest and most supportive to the detective at the start of the movie, book, or TV show. Never the cranky prime suspect. Always the nice volunteer aide to the detective. Why? He/she is the one the audience will least suspect. Except me.

      It always amazed me how many of Jessica Fletcher’s friends were either killers or victims. Never be a friend of Jessica Fletcher.

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      • neurochick
        Feb 24, 2013 @ 12:02:44

        One thing I have noticed with those commercials that feature a fat black woman going ““umm humm,” and angrily pouts is that most of the time, in fact maybe all of the time, that woman is dark skinned. I have yet to see a commercial with an angry biracial looking woman. This just contributes to the stereotype that says that black women, who look black, all have a chip on their shoulders.

        But here’s what isn’t shown or understood: The reason these women may be angry and might have chips on their shoulders, is because they have never been taught that it was okay to have boundaries, that it was okay to say no sometimes, that it’s okay to take care of yourself. These women have been run over for years, sometimes for decades, and to me, most people in that situation would be mighty angry.

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        • Socialkenny
          Feb 24, 2013 @ 13:58:53

          @Neuro- That’s so true. Good point. I’ve yet to even see a light-skinned woman do 1 of those commercials. It’s just sickening. I remember there’s 1 of those commercial with a white lady shopping or something and a fat black lady comes out of nowhere advising her playing that mommy role with the sass. I just hate it! I definitely don’t see it as racial I just hate the Southern accent and sass.

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        • Kiwiwriter
          Feb 24, 2013 @ 14:13:17

          Well, I’m an MFA writer, so I pick up on things like that. Yep, those fat women in the sitcoms and commercials are always dark, dark, black women, always have Southern accents, and are permanently torqued off.

          The problem with cliches and stereotypes is that there are more than enough examples of them for people to believe that they are true. For example, if you read nothing but crime reports in the New York area, you’d think that the only people who commit drug-related offenses and violent crime are young, unruly, poorly-groomed black males, who peer at you defiantly and irritably from police mug shots. Yeah, they committed crimes. Those crimes. But not all crimes. And they don’t represent every young black male in America.

          Jews are still stereotyped…the whiny accountant. Or the not-so-whiny police forensic accountant. You don’t see Jewish tough guys or athletes on TV, and never mind Shawn Green, Ike Davis, Sandy Koufax, and Mark Spitz. And never mind the Israeli Army, which is a bunch of pretty tough guys.

          My other ethnic group gets it, too. The English. The only movies that make the English look good are the James Bond series. They’re the bad guys in “Braveheart” and “Titanic,” for example. “Titanic” offends because the English crewmembers are portrayed as incompetents, arrogant buffoons, or corrupt. IN actuality, the English crew mostly went down with the ship, including the captain, Chief Officer, First Officer, and the entire engine room crew.

          The English are ignored in “U-571,” where Americans seize a U-Boat and its Enigma code machine. In history, it was “U-570,” and the British did it. The Royal Navy veterans were quite irritated.

          In situation comedies, Britons are often portrayed as obnoxious, arrogant, high-handed snobs and comic buffoons.

          This picture annoys me, because my British rellies have served alongside the Americans with valor in two World Wars, Korea, two Iraqi wars, Afghanistan, Bosnia, and even the Boxer Rebellion.

          But back to the topic at hand, Robert Townsend assailed this picture pretty effectively in a movie 20 years ago, and I suddenly can’t remember its name. I’m getting old, so I apologize for that.

          Jack Valenti, the bigshot in the Hollywood world, was pushing the industry to do more inclusive casting and filming, and I guess extending stereotypes and creating the “Magic Negro” is their answer. Morgan Freeman is an exemplar. Notice he never gets the girl. Not good enough.

          But there are increasing signs that is changing, albeit slowly, which is the way successful change tends to work, as my classical scholar pals tell me. Will Smith has done pretty well as a commanding action hero. Zoe Saldana and Kerry Washington are lighting up the large and small screens pretty effectively. Nobody does those silly “blaxploitation” films any more. And I am noticing more and more commercials with black people portrayed in middle-class situations and in functional families.

          My suggestion is simple: write the words you want to see written. Don’t rely on others to it for you.If you’re going to be a “keyboard commando,” be a good one.

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          • Socialkenny
            Feb 24, 2013 @ 14:19:08

            Great points on stereotyping. Like all Jews are filthy rich lol! That’s a classic. And is it true?

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            • Kiwiwriter
              Feb 24, 2013 @ 14:22:36

              You know, my wife has a joke…she married the only Jew who was broke.

              Actually, when I was in the Navy, people, both Navy and Japanese, would say to me, “Is it true the Jews have all the money?”

              I’d whirl on them and say, “Hell, if I had all the money in the world, do you think I would be here, earning $96 a month for my ability to clean shower stalls, taking orders from Neanderthal idiots? No! I’d be living in a fancy penthouse in San Francisco, with a luxury box at Candlestick Park (and another one at Yankee Stadium), coming home at night to find Holly Robinson waiting for me in a filmy negligee and a state of trembling ecstasy!”

              That always got them, and they’d say, “Yeah…yeah, that’s true.” Then they’d ask (if American), “Why Holly Robinson?” or (if Japanese) “Who’s Holly Robinson?”

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          • Neecy
            Feb 24, 2013 @ 16:43:04

            Yep, those fat women in the sitcoms and commercials are always dark, dark, black women, always have Southern accents, and are permanently torqued off.

            And they are always named SHIRLEY. LOL

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          • Neecy
            Feb 24, 2013 @ 16:45:56

            I agree Kiwi. When looking at the big picture there is A LOT of stereotyping racially or culturally across the board. I notice now, a lot of young Jewish men are used in comedic roles and are hardly given more serious roles.

            I also agree that its going to take more Black women writers and such to create the roles we want to see for ourselves. You cannot wait on others to do it for you. Stereotypes are the easiest way to portray people. its a lot harder to write people as individuals.

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            • Kiwiwriter
              Feb 24, 2013 @ 18:34:15

              Well, good writing is hard work, and if you have neither knowledge nor empathy for your subjects, the characters you write will edge toward stereotypes. A lot of writers will say, “Gee, I better have a black guy here or a Jewish woman,” so they write one, trying to be multi-cultural and inclusive, but since they don’t know or lack empathy, the character comes out cliched and shopworn.

              Not all black women are angry single mothers, not all Jewish women are pushy, screeching princesses, not all WASPs are handsome and slick corporate chieftains, not all Jewish guys are accountants and nerds, not all Latino guys come from the tougher neighborhoods of The Bronx and wear their hats backwards, not all Africans drive cabs or work as peddlers on the streets of New York, but this is what so many people see…they often don’t know any better or don’t try to.

              Take my home state of New Jersey. People hear “New Jersey” and they think of that section of the New Jersey Turnpike between Linden and the Lincoln Tunnel, which everyone drives. Oil refineries, the Newark Seaport, the Newark Liberty International Airport, factories, swamps, 12-lane highways, tollbooths, and then the tunnel or bridge. Sometimes they think of Atlantic City and casinos. Or Newark and the 1967 riots. Or Bruce Springsteen. That’s about it.

              They don’t think about the state being the birthplace of baseball, railroads, the light bulb, the phonograph, and the motion picture. They don’t think about all the battles of the American Revolution that were fought here. They don’t think about the superb New Jersey Performing Arts Center, the hills and mountains of the beautiful Watchung area or the Delaware Water Gap. They don’t know that Grover Cleveland, Connie Francis, Vince Lombardi, Wally Schirra, and Frank Sinatra were born here. They never heard of our great artists: William Carlos Williams, Stephen Crane, or Philip Roth. They have to be reminded that Whitney Houston, Queen Latifah, and Sarah Vaughan came from Newark. They forget that Einstein lived and worked in Princeton, and what a great school it is. They forget that Yogi Berra, Phil Rizzuto, and CC Sabathia settled here. I work all day long to correct this image, particularly for Newark, and I never succeed.

              But writing people should be easier. Don’t think about the ethnicity first. Think about what the person is supposed to be, and do, and represent…and then put in the ethnicity.

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        • Neecy
          Feb 24, 2013 @ 16:41:43

          Very true Neuro and a good observation. Many Bi racial women may not have a chip on their shoulders b/c in the BC they typically are treated better and more protected. A lot of Black women do have a chip on their shoulders for the very reasons you mention. NO BOUNDARIES. And then when they get used or abused they carry those hurts and it expresses itself in ways such as bad attitudes and sassiness.

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      • Socialkenny
        Feb 24, 2013 @ 13:54:08

        @Kiwi- Exactly!!! That’s what I was talking about. The commercials with the fat older black women with the sassy attitude and Southern accents. That is so damn cliche and gets me sick. That’s exactly what I was trying to communicate. That’s for clarifying for me.

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        • Kiwiwriter
          Feb 24, 2013 @ 14:16:16

          Glad I could help…my father was a top advertising copywriter, so our family would have to actually sit there and listen and watch during commercials. He would critique them, and while I did not go into advertising, I learned a few things.

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    • Neecy
      Feb 24, 2013 @ 16:36:40

      LOL Kenny. yes anything Tyler Perry makes me gag. I just can’t see why a grown ass man would continue to love playing the role of a large Black woman. UGH

      And yes the Pine Sol commercial and Popeyes commercials bug me. Oh and those stupid tide commercials where they have the “sassy” Black women. UGH

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      • Kiwiwriter
        Feb 24, 2013 @ 18:37:30

        The only thing I ever saw Tyler Perry in was that brief scene as the admiral presiding over Jim Kirk’s trial (and later, promotion ceremony) in JJ Abrams’ “Star Trek” movie. People were gasping in the audience, “That’s Tyler Perry!” and I was saying, “Who’s Tyler Perry?”

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    • Mary
      Nov 01, 2013 @ 18:31:41

      So true.

      And I hate that Progressive commercial with the fat loud Black woman on the hunt and complaining because the White insurance lady gave her man too much confidence. I actually went to their website to complain. Not that it will do much, just wanted to voice my opinion.

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      • orwell1776
        Nov 01, 2013 @ 18:41:22

        The Loud Big Black Woman stereotype is annoying. However, there’s TV personalities portrayed by big black women who are funny and confident. Generally, I find that big black women display more confidence than big white women on average. For example, I know plenty of big black women who seriously believe they’re attractive. Whereas, big white women believe they are unattractive and it shows in their demeanor.

        The comedian Monique, or rapper Missy Elliot (even though she lost weight in recent years), are examples of big black women who are confident, smart, and funny.

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      • Socialkenny
        Nov 02, 2013 @ 05:14:49

        That is exactly the commercial I was referring to. That stupid Progressive one with the black guy wanting to juggle some whatever it is at the end…I think it’s a chainsaw. Pure stupid! It’s not only loud black women, it’s almost always, 99% of the time, a loud over-weight black woman. Why are they always depicted as overweight?

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  20. Christa
    Feb 24, 2013 @ 22:16:29

    In Tyler Perry’s latest film – I don’t watch his films anymore – ‘Temptation: Confessions of a Marriage Counselor’ he gave kim kardashian a minor role. Who doesn’t need the money. He could have given that role to a black woman. But chose to give the role to a non black woman. Besides another black man profiting by dressing up as a black woman along with – Big Momma’s House, Norbit, The Nutty Professor etc. This is what some black men are doing when they get the chance to act or produce black films.

    Another show I like – ‘The Walking Dead’. The only black woman on the show is portrayed as very masculine. While the white women on the show or portrayed as feminine. Which is ironic because the actress that portrays her looks very feminine in real life.
    DANAI GURIRA AS MICHONNE – MASCULINE WOMAN

    DANAI GURIRA – FEMININE WOMAN

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    • Socialkenny
      Feb 25, 2013 @ 06:10:05

      @Christa- I don’t and never watched any Tyler Perry films. Only times I’d been subjected to a minute or so of it is when my GF or someone is watching TV.

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    • Neecy
      Mar 02, 2013 @ 20:10:52

      Christa,

      Like Kenny I do not like nor watch Tyler Perry movies. I respect his hustle but in terms of support, I see a common theme in his movies where the Black women are often stereotyped while the Black men are constantly portrayed as heroes.

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  21. Marellus
    Feb 26, 2013 @ 10:37:03

    Neecy, I’m late to the party, but nonetheless your original post was thought provoking. I wish you well in this glorious battle to get them full-creams to do something for their sistas … I mean it.

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  22. revmatthews
    Feb 27, 2013 @ 13:46:31

    Question: do you allow comments that are, in your opinion, severely critical of the original premise? I’d hate to waste time on an unpublished post that was discarded simply because it presented an alternative POV.

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  23. Trackback: Whatever I am, You Made Me… And When Will Black Women Stop Mammying? | notyourgirlfriday
  24. E. Wilson (@SheThrives11)
    Mar 17, 2013 @ 18:25:01

    This post was promoted in another blog that I frequent and I’m glad I read it. I agree 100% with your point about reciprocity. I believe that Black women should show loyalty only to those who vet for them and show loyalty back. As women, it is often in our nature to be caretakers, but we must remember 2 things: (1) accept the fact that we cannot change everything, (2) there is nothing selfish about making our well-being, mental state, and physical health priorities when it comes to the things we can change. Not everyone wants to see Black women thrive, so we have to choose our battles wisely in supporting our groups. That’s not being selfish, it’s being smart.

    I do want to comment also about the BW&W blog post in question as well. The author of that post is a self-proclaimed feminist who once insinuated that readers of the site were sub-consciously jealous of white women when the majority of us came out against feminism as a ideology to support. I will never forget that accusation, and I make it a point to ignore any post that she contributes to the BW&W.

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    • Neecy
      Mar 18, 2013 @ 23:37:58

      Hi E!!

      Thank you for your input and I definitley have to agree that there is nothing wrong with BW being careful and even SMART about who they are willing to support. The reason BW in general are int he state we are in is b/c of an unwillingness to have boundaries and to stop dealing with people who have shown no reciprocity towards us as a collective.

      And YES I 100% agree about that particular author/moderator who makes those posts insinuating BW are jealous of WW simply b/c we do not agree with many feminist ideals of TODAY. Simply b/c she embarces all things feminist she has a PROBLEM with BW who don’t and her simple easy way of trying to push BW who do not want to jump on that bandwagon, in a corner is to insinuate and say they are jealous of WW.

      She has accused me of this on more than one occassion and all I could do was laugh. She basically has used the same tactic that BM and all others use when BW bring up very real questions and differing views about certain ideals – that we are jealous. This is a very simplistic tactic used to try to shut people down and make them feel intimidated about expressing views against certain idealogies that certain groups represent or partake in.

      For her its feminism. If BW are arguing against some of the things of feminism or simply wish not to embrace many of its ideals, she will just chalk it up as being jealous of WW. The only reason we don;t want to jump on board with modern day White feminists is b/c we hate WW? REALLY??? UGH. There are no other real debatable issues as to why BW would not be so attracted to aligning themselves with atypical feminists of today other than jealousy? LOL

      In one post where she flat out claimed i was jealous of WW – . The issue of the pay difference between men and women came up. So I questioned that if WW were so concerned about the pay difference between them and men, and their willingness to publicly campaign against it, then why wouldn’t they start first with the pay difference and gap between themselves and BLACK WOMEN. IOW’s I was saying how can WW bitch about a pay gap between them and men when there is a BIGGER pay gap between WW and BW in the same jobs. If the intent is to have equal wages and opportunities for equal wages, then why not start with closing the gap between WW and BW before trying to fight that battle against MEN. LOL She said I was just jealous of WW. LOL

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  25. bwws
    Aug 28, 2013 @ 00:08:31

    88 percent of black men who earn 100,00 or more marry a black woman when they choose to settle down; the percentage is even higher for men who earn less than that. The idea that most black men are chasing white women is a myth. In the words of Malcolm x y’all have been bamboozled. If black women are looking out for other people rather than them selves they have no one to blame but them-selves. Also, I don’t know one single black man that would refuse to date an attractive dark skin woman; the problem is we have many women who are over weight and have an unfeminine demeanor and try to use the excuse that people are turning them down simply because they’re dark skin when that’s not the whole picture. Men may sleep with women just off looks but when it comes to marriage it’s about attitude and wether are not you have a pleasant attitude.

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    • Kiwiwriter
      Nov 02, 2013 @ 18:33:32

      I read somewhere that the fastest-growing interracial marriages are white men and black women.

      White men are discovering that black women are NOT all like Aunt Esther in “Sanford and Son” (she actually had an extremely raunchy stand-up comedy routine in opposition to her religious TV persona) or Aunt Jemima, or screechy uneducated women with a cloud of children. Now, I admit that Halle Berry, Vanessa Williams, Thandie Newton, Paula Patton, and Kerry Washington helped change that image, but for every Vanessa on TV, there are about six or seven working in white-collar jobs, based on university degrees, rubbing shoulders with white guys, and they are discovering that they share things that really matter — career fields, music, movies, computer apps, sports teams, hobbies, and causes.

      So in a very short time, they are sharing lunches, dinners, weekends, beds, and apartments. That’s the way human beings work. What unites us is greater than what divides us, despite the ferocious rhetoric of people whose real goal is not a racial utopia, but simply to make everyone else as miserable as they are.

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