THE 4 C’s ~ Halima Anderson (Black Women’s Interracial Circle)


Is what Black women will start receiving from society and men as a whole when Black women learn to STOP the othering ourselves as women.

When looking at many of the issues affecting African American women, a lot of them can be drawn back to the FACT that we are typically the only group of women who enjoy “othering” ourselves as women despite the FACT that is has dire consequences for Black females.


What is othering?

3. Of a different character or quality: “a strange, other dimension . . . where his powers seemed to fail” (Lance Morrow).

6. Opposite or contrary; reverse: the other side.

IOW’s you are not like the rest – you are different. In a society and world women who are deemed “worthy” based on their femininity receive what Hailma of Interracial Dating Circle has called the 4’ C’s.


This perfectly outlines what many women of the world (Western societies) receive from powerful, masculine men when they are deemed feminine and worthy of protection. Those C’s perfectly outline the power of being deemed feminine and worthy b/c they allow women to reap the benefits in a patriarchal society.

let’s face it. Women need men and vice versa. If you are a feminist please don’t bother reading this b/c I don’t care to hear your nonsense about how women don’t need men blah blah blah…

As outlined in a previous post women NEED male protection. Women need ethical, healthy masculine males to protect them in a society and world where there are male predators and misogynists who HATE and can and will do harm to women.

In a society and world where the most powerful and healthy men create the standards and make the decisions, women who are in favor with these men will reap many benefits. Not just from powerful men, but men in general of all walks of life, economic status and such.

In order to keep predatory men in check and to retain laws and such that protect women, there needs to be AMPLE amounts of Normal healthy masculine powerful men to uphold these laws and police other men as they are on the same level b/c a man is an equal fight for another man.

In a patriarchal society and world, women who receive the above C’s are going to fare the best in society and in the world.

In Western societies where women are *generally* treated the best on the grander scale compared  to other cultures and such, you see this clearly with certain groups of women.

When you look at how White and Asian and sometimes Latina women fare in healthy thriving western societies, the women who are most feminine and deemed WORTHY of male protection and the 4 C’s are receiving this based on the *IDEA* that they *NEED* these things b/c as women, powerful sane and healthy masculine men want to protect these kinds of women based on their deemed femininity.

Remember femininity naturally sets off positive triggers in a healthy masculine male – not just physically in terms of protection but also in terms of providing and making ways for a better quality of life. They also seek to maintain the emotional and mental health of such women by reducing her burdens and battles.

Its innate for a male to want to protect what he deems as vulnerable and/or the opposite of what makes him masculine. While femininity is not a weakness, the reality is men are physically stronger than women on average, and women generally no match in physically being able to defend themselves against males.

Also, in patriarchal societies most men seek balance to their masculinity and naturally want to bestow affection, love, support, COURTESY, CONSIDERATION, CONCESSIONS, & COOPERATION upon women whom they deem as worthy of receiving that. When a woman exudes the highest level of femininity, she by default will receive this from the male population that is SANE, MASCULINE, HEALTHY and NORMAL and the ones who aren’t would be too fearful to attack or target her out of fear of retribution BY OTHER MALES.

We can argue that race plays a greater role in that most Non Black men generally seek to protect and uplift their races of women on average compared to other groups of men *cough* Black men *cough*, the reality is ALL men are more apt to protect women regardless of race if she is deemed worthy by feminine qualities which triggers in most masculine men a need, want and desire to protect and uplift.


For the most part, Black women COLLECTIVELY have yet to see the 4 C’s bestowed on us. Many Back women may be able to say they have on a more microscopic individual level, but as a whole Back women do not typically receive these same benefits as other races of women.

The question is, is it b/c of RACE or a perception which deems Black women as not in need of these things b/c Black women do not exude behaviors that would trigger in most healthy men to want to rescue, protect, give considerations and such b/c Black women are standing side by side with MEN doing these things for MEN and all others?

If Black women are acting like “the boys” then “the boys” are going to see them as “the boys” and thus, “the boys” will not feel an innate need, want, or desire to extoll the 4 C’s upon Black women.


In piggy backing off of the previous thread about BW and the importance to stop MAMMYING themselves for every damn body and start taking care of NUMERO UNO FIRST,  and others who are giving back and reciprocating SECOND,  and NEVER-MINDING the people who are simply using Black women for their own personal gains and self esteem and then tossing us out to the landfills (until they need is again), this is why the concept of no longer othering ourselves is important.

As many intelligent women in that discussion pointed out, when people deem you as a woman that has no feelings, needs, wants or desires, you get treated as SUCH. And then in your time of need when you need others to bestow the 4 C’s upon you to HELP YOU, you are left in the cold by yourself.

When people are attacking you, you want that same Calvary available to all other women coming on their horses to help and or defend you b/c everyone needs allies and support. People who have neither, are more apt to suffer and have to deal with many unfortunate issues alone and without ample support needed to sometimes pull you through. Not only that you become an EASY target and vulnerable in unhealthy ways.


Basically some people see vulnerability as a whole a bad thing – especially for women. I see it differently. I feel vulnerability is bad when a person (people), place or thing is deemed UNWORTHY, INFERIOR, DIFFERENT (in bad ways) b/c these are typically people who become targets of the crazy, ignorant, predators, selfish people etc. and are ignored or beneficiaries of apathetic others who don’t really see a need to support or stand up for that person, people, thing.

And after being the beneficiary of above parties targeting, then you don’t receive the protections and 4 C’s that come from those in power or positions to make and stake a stand to send a message be it directly or indirectly that they will not sit by quietly and watch you be a target.

Then there is healthy vulnerability in which people deem you SO WORTHY that they are always looking out for you even when you don’t expect or possibly need it.

When you have ONE group of women OTHERING themselves (Black women) as being “STRONG” and always directly and indirectly fighting everyone else’s battles (acting like one of “the boys”), yet its clear no one is fighting hers (not even herself) then that is BAD vulnerability. Especially when Black women have many many issues collectively that place us in highly unhealthy and sometimes even DANGEROUS vulnerable positions that need our dire attention as to progress forward.

Then you have the healthy vulnerable women. Non Black women. They are seen as vulnerable in that they should not have to be in harms way, they should not be targeted, they should not carry too many burdens b/c it  affects their overall femininity which is wanted and needed by males in society.

Women will naturally lose feminine qualities the more they are subjected to stressful situations without support or protection, or when they are the constant carriers of burdens alone.

So b/c these women are deemed vulnerable, there are protections and the 4 Cs are in place to make sure that there is a great effort in fighting for these women when they are in need, in danger or in situations where they cannot do it alone.

Most healthy men with resources and power FEAR women losing their feminine qualities b/c society and men suffer when women are not allowed to be WOMEN and embrace the better parts of womanhood. And the better parts of womanhood are kindness, sweetness, generosity, graciousness, empathy and a great effort to look, feel and be attractive and feminine b/c they don’t feel pressures to be anything other than free to be a woman.


STOP MAMMYING! That’s first. if you don’t know what I mean, scroll down to the last post written and read, wash, rinse, and REPEAT until you clearly understand why MAMMYING is very dangerous and harmful for Black women.

NEXT. Stop acting as if you are built of steel and so strong that it turns people off to wanting to help or support you b/c they start feeling they are not needed.

This is in general for why Black women are often not deemed in need of a calvary or protections. Because we come off by directly or indirectly saying “we can do it all by ourselves and don’t need anyone”.

That kind of thinking hardens a woman and sends off vibes and fumes to all others around her that she is tough and made of steel just like a man.


When Black women recognize their WORTH, they will see how the Black community is  dangerous  to her progress as an individual and a WOMAN. The Black community  is NOT set up to embrace the femininity of Black women. WHY? Because there is no more Black community if Black women by whole and large embraced their femininity. WHY? Because that would mean Black women would say “OH HAIL TO THE NO I am not going to be treated like shit, abandoned and left to fend for myself and carry the whole black races burdens when Black men aren’t doing it” – “DEUCES!!!”.

The Black community seeks to keep Black women as the MASCULINE PROTECTOR,  MULE & BACKBONE b/c the men refused to be such. Its perfectly acceptable for Black MEN to escape and leave the BC once they make it. They run off and marry women of other races and raise mixed families in better communities and environments where their children are free from the ills of the typical Black community.

YET Black women _ WOMEN _ are expected to “stick it out” and keep fighting the good fight for Black people even when it endangers her well being mentally, emotionally & physically.

You see. if Black women were perceived in a healthy vulnerable light as women, people would never EXPECT us to carry the burdens of Black people, BLACK MEN OR  Black communities (which are not very prosperous and often times dangerous to women and children).

INSTEAD, people expect BLACK MALES to run away and protect themselves and their future and future OFFSPRING (with other races of women) when they are able to do so.

And who supports this notion the most? BLACK WOMEN.

Yes BLACK WOMEN still keep fighting for MEN who are abandoning them in the droves for better lives with other races of women. Yet when one of these Black men get in trouble with White police or some other racial profiling nonsense, who are out freedom fighting, picketing and acting like crazed maniacs in the public and media? BLACK WOMEN. And yet, their non Black wives get to sit by and watch their husbands get defended by scores of SISTER SOLDIER BLACK WOMEN fighting his public battles and cries for EQUALITY, and these Non black wives get to sit and be quiet and enjoy being women who are not expected to fight and scream for a group of men’s right’s – not even their husbands. LOL


Let’s face it. Black women deal with a lot of SHIT. A lot of shit that we are often not deserved to deal with. but bc people UNDERSTAND and KNOW the unhealthy vulnerability and lack of protection Black women have,  we make easy targets for losers and people of the world and society who need to step on, shit on and target others they deem beneath them and vulnerable in unhealthy ways without protection.

AS a result, Black women often have very defensive demeanors which can translate into being sassy, mean, or having a very bad attitude. that is what i call a defense mechanism often misdirected in the form of being “the angry Black woman” b/c this is the ONLY way Black women have been taught or have learned how to defend herself.

Insert latest issues with little NINE YEAR OLD Best Actress Oscar nominee Quvenzhane Wallis  being called a “C%NT” by a popular entertainment news rag called THE ONION.

Yes a little 9 year old Black female oscar nominee was said to be “kinda of a little c%nt” on TWITTER by the above Newspaper.

And while there was a large outrage by many people of many races and genders, and an immediate apology by the CEO with a removal of the actual tweet within an hour, the FACT that anyone felt SAFE to publicly state that a 9 year old was a “little C$nt” is what Black women should be concerned about.

Because we ALL KNOW if anyone DARED say that about a WHite NINE YEAR OLD little girl on one of the best nights of her life, carrying a puppy dog purse and generally being a little 9 year old, that paper would have been shut down, advertisers pulled, and the world ready to burn the actual SHITHEAD at stake who would have had the guts to tweet such a vile disgusting thing about a CHILD.

See what happens when you lack receiving the 4 C’s? Not even innocent little Black girls enjoying the time of their life for doing something positive and meaningful are safe from being called one of the most vile disgusting things a person could call a female let alone an innocent child.

And of course it was a large case of the SILENCE OF THE LAMBS with WHite feminists who were more concerned with Seth Mc Farlane singing about actresses whose breasts we’ve seen in movies. *YAWN* One day Black women will see the Liberal WHite feminists DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOU. Many openly made it clear that they weren’t so “bothered” by the C word being thrown at a young Black girl oscar nominee b/c “they weren’t really calling her a C4nt” or  “it was just satire”.

One Jezzi article went so far as to suggest that the C word isn;t such a bad word. LMFAO!! I guess its not really , when a 9 year old Oscar nominee Black girl is on the receiving end of it.



Fight back with your wallets and stay on top of advertisers and such when a Black woman is publicly demeaned  and maligned unecessarily.

If its a more personal local situation, defend yourself in a way that people do not expect. Don’t huff and puff, but handle the situation assertivley by protecting your rights as much and in the best way you can. Getting angry, cursing and going off doesn’t help Black women get any of the 4 C’s.

But showing your vulnerability (WHEN ITS NECESSARY) is going to win a lot more people over in your corner than when you go off and become the ABW (Angry Black woman).

But really fight back where it counts. The best revenge for Black women is upping the  ANTE on living better lives, being FEMININE BUTTERFLIES, that leave the haters, users and losers grasping for straws and the generally apathetic towards Black women people realize that we are deserving of protections and the 4 C’s.


Black women have to pretty much look INWARD and to others of the same mindset for ways on how to practice living for SELF. You will never EVER learn or practice this by continuing to serve the LEECHES that have collectively used Black women for their own benefits and gains.

You see Black women looking out for self, being feminine, happy, in shape is not in the best interests of a lot of other people who PRETEND to be in our corner. I take that back, no one (not even the Black women leeches) pretend any more to even care about Black women! LOL they understand Black women’s BLIND UN DYING LOYALTY to all things and people (except themselves) requires no need to even PRETEND they even care about us except when they need us to fight their Public racial gender battles, or be the face and poster girls for their FAT ACCEPTANCE campaigns etc.

That is where finding other like minded Black women are VITAL to the success of this.  My Black female friends (my close ones) for the most part are all ont eh same page and in our lives we work to live the best life for OURSELVES by keeping people outside of our circle, lives and vicinity who are not willing to reciprocate or treat us right.

When you surround yourself with like minded women or people with the he same goals, you have a much stronger support system in place to keep encouraging you to be the best you can be and to learn  never-mind the BS and people who are simply out to suck you dry and then leave you in the dust.

Now off to get rested for —  MY BDAY TOMORROW!!! WOOT WOOT!!!




47 Comments (+add yours?)

  1. Neecy
    Mar 02, 2013 @ 22:49:22

    If I can find the link to the original article by Halima on this very topic of the 4 C’s I will post it as it is a great article I remember reading a couple years ago.



  2. Socialkenny
    Mar 03, 2013 @ 01:29:46

    First of all: thanks for putting feminists in their place LOL! Job well done even though that’d be a hard pill for femi-Nazi’s to swallow (that women need men, and men need women).

    As for protection, it’s ironic that in the seduction/pickup artist community (in which I’m a coaching member), 1 of our core principle and tagline is that “1 of the attraction switches for women is protection”. Meaning, once a guy positions himself as a possible protector of women (or the girl he’s courting), it’s an innate attractive trait which will be good for his cause of trying to pick her up.

    This instinctively goes back to the caveman days where rival men were seen as predators, and the Alpha-male would protect his women from those predators. So this still stands to this day where being a protector of women is a huge psychological plus.

    I’ll address the “Other” parts of this article shortly.



    • Neecy
      Mar 03, 2013 @ 13:00:28

      But how does a PUA protect when he is actually exploiting the woman with game?

      You mean in the sense that he is protecting her from other men trying to approach her b/c he is already in that territory?

      I wouldn’t think PUA would have anything remotley to do with protecting women b/c its really exploiting in a sense.



      • Socialkenny
        Mar 03, 2013 @ 16:03:25

        Thing is, and I’m actually the first PUA to admit this: game is manipulation. To seduce means to mislead. So that is true: we do mislead women and even exploit. However, the thing which equalizes this manipulative process (seduction/pickup) is that women “HAVE TO” manipulated in order to sleep with a guy. Sounds strange but I’ve proven this in a million ways. A woman will not sleep with a man, as much as she wants to, if she’s consciously aware of it. Thus she has to be tricked into sex, and it is what she wants anyway.

        As for protection, what I mean was, in the PUA community, there are 3 innate switches which cause a woman to gravitate to a man: 1.) Dominance, 2.) Replication 3.) Protection.

        If as a man he positions himself as a protector of women, women will naturally and biologically want to be seduced by him. As a PUA, we present women with all 3 of these things which she needs to sleep with a man.

        A woman will not sleep with a man whom she deems as unable to protect her. Not from a literal thing, but psychologically and emotionally.



        • Neecy
          Mar 05, 2013 @ 14:03:26


          I don’t think you have to manipulate women. Women now a days really are a lot less conservative sexually and pretty much will have sex as they please. A lot of times a woman knoes if she wants to have sex or be with a man, its not that she has to be manipulated to do it, its just whether or not she *chooses* to.

          But thank you for the idea on my next post, b/c I wanna address exactly some of th ethings you said. 😉



  3. Trackback: Whatever I am, You Made Me… And When Will Black Women Stop Mammying? | notyourgirlfriday
  4. neurochick
    Mar 03, 2013 @ 05:32:26

    I think too many women today have abused what feminism really is supposed to be and originally was. Feminism is about choice, if a woman wants to be an engineer, she can, if she wants to be a teacher, she can, if she wants to be a wife and mother, she can.

    Before the feminist movement, there was no choice. You married out of high school, kept house, cooked, had children whether you wanted to or not. I just watched a show on BBC America last night called “Ripper Street” and when it was revealed that the husband wasn’t the engineer, but his wife. The men went crazy with anger, “A WOMAN engineer!” they said. At that time men really didn’t think women had brains at all. No, I don’t want to go back to that time.

    BUT, being a mammy is something else entirely and has nothing to do with feminism. Being a mammy means saying, “I don’t need help.” When you admit that you do need help, you not only show vulnerability, healthy vulnerability, you show that you are open and willing to listen to someone who might know more than you and that’s how you make connections. Someone knows more than me here, and in another area I might know more than them. But if I huff and puff and say, “I can do it all by myself.” I close the door and then no one can come in.

    Like I said once before, it’s all about boundaries. If you’re raised not to have them (i.e. raised to do for everybody else and never have your own life, raised that anybody can say and do anything to you at any time), you’re going to be one angry person because that’s the natural reaction of someone who has been used and abused all their life.



    • Neecy
      Mar 03, 2013 @ 13:03:59

      I agree too many women have abused feminism to where these days Liberal feminism is really not attractive to more conservative types or even lots of Black women.

      I also acknowledge that feminism has given women choices. But as Jer pointed out there are many forms of feminism. The feminism I am against is the popular LIBERAL feminism.

      I don’t think a woman would say they do not appreciate the strides women have made b/c of feminism, but these days its really nothing that feminism has done to progress women further – actually I feel a lot of feminists today are regressing women.

      And then when you have feminists defending a paper who tweeted a vile thing like calling a young Black girl a “cunt” that doesn’t really make me as a BW wanna join in with the liberal White feminists who clearly show they have only an interest in their issues.



  5. Omerta327
    Mar 03, 2013 @ 17:10:58

    Good post, Neece. I like to think I learn something new every day, and until today I never knew ‘other’ was a verb. 😎

    Men are hard-wired to be protectors, but it’s true that it can be tricky finding a woman who’s deserving of it, as you pointed out. If a girl isn’t worthy, then you’re just playing Cartain Save-A-Ho. And like they say, you can’t turn a ho into a housewife.

    I think there’s a certain yin/yang aspect between men and women where, by nature, we don’t need to be equal – we just need to compliment each other.

    BTW, i noticed how you made sure to get some cleavage into the new pic. Wise move. 😉



    • Omerta327
      Mar 03, 2013 @ 17:13:33

      *CAPTAIN* Save-A Ho.*

      Damn, I’ve been around this blog too long.



    • Neecy
      Mar 05, 2013 @ 14:09:19

      Omerta I agree. i think a lot of women and men feel that just by default a man should pretoect any woman. But men also have to be selective about the types of women they will protect b/c some women puposley put themselves in situations that can be bad for them both emotionally & physically.

      Sometimes a man tries to “save” a woman that doesn’t really want to be saved and its just a waste of his time and energy.

      I think there’s a certain yin/yang aspect between men and women where, by nature, we don’t need to be equal – we just need to compliment each other.

      That’s exactly how I see it and how I believe it was meant to be. But I apply that to many aspects of life in general. you do not always have to be equal or the same to somehting for it to be balanced and work out. Sometimes what makes people different is what makes that bond stronger, if they can appreciate the differences. That is what I appreciate about the differences between men and woman.

      BTW, i noticed how you made sure to get some cleavage into the new pic. Wise move.

      HA!!! LOL Did you know there are actual studies that say men respond to cleavage? LOL Just a little not too much b/c then it becomes trashy.



      • omerta327
        Mar 06, 2013 @ 09:06:03

        “Did you know there are actual studies that say men respond to cleavage? LOL Just a little not too much b/c then it becomes trashy.”

        Good thing they did those studies, cuz I never would have imagined that. 😉 And there’s no such thing as too much cleavage to a guy.

        And honestly, I’ve never even been a boob guy. I’m a legs/ass man myself. There’s nothing sexier to me than a girl with toned legs and a tight ass wearing a tight little pair of shorts. Mmmmm hmmmm.



        • Ray
          Apr 19, 2013 @ 07:46:02

          When it comes to boobs, American men are the worst! I was stationed in Germany and the chaplain sponsored sight seeing trips to different metropolitan cities of Europe. We spent one day at one of Italy’s nude beaches, where the locals could all spot the American tourists by the bug eyed wonder as they ogled breast after breast on the beach! I was embarressed as an American.



          • Ray
            Apr 19, 2013 @ 07:50:44

            Nudity is not a big problem in Europe. A child can turn a tv on over there and see everything from full frontal nudity to extreme violence. The majority of Americans are too prudish and unsophisticated.



  6. Elegance
    Mar 06, 2013 @ 09:44:37

    BRAVO!!!! This was great! So many good and useful points for women to hear. Othering is one of the worst things BW are doing to themselves. Other women are acting one way and BW are insisting on acting differently because that is their unique “Black femininity”.

    What we need is for men (and anyone else) to stop saying “White woman ok, Asian woman ok, Hispanic woman ok, Black woman disqualified because she is too hard, masculine, angry, I can’t touch her hair, she keeps calling me racist and talking about racism etc”. We will always look different from other women in some ways, but there are ways that we can be similar, color isn’t everything. We can have different accents yet still speak proper English and be polite, we can be feminine and still work, we can be knowledgeable of many issues yet not rage about them constantly, we can be aware of racism but not complain about every event in the news all the time, we can have dark skin but work to keep it clear and soft, we can have natural hair and make it look attractive.

    The key point is that we can be different versions of the same basic feminine and attractive things instead of choosing to be unfeminine and unattractive. People get too hung up on the idea of trying to be EXACTLY like someone else, like a carbon copy (e.g., same skin tone, same hair texture, same job, same income etc.) instead of focusing on achieving the same general qualities (e.g., clear skin, soft hair, job that provides enough income for a good life etc.). Black women will always look different from other women in terms of skin tone and hair texture but we can still be equally beautiful. BW will always have a different history from other women but we can still be seen as worthy and equal to other women instead of self-labeling as damaged and perpetually unequal.



    • Neecy
      Mar 13, 2013 @ 23:45:14

      Yes. Black women feel they have to look and be carbon copies of other women in the ways that don’t matter. Like you said, BW should be seeking to be aligned with what other women are doing where it counts – in attitude, demeanor and femininity (those that represent it). BW do not have to LOOK like other women to be seen and respected as women. Its really about attitude, values and the way BW carry themselves that can cause othering if its waay off course of what other women are NOT generally doing.



  7. kia
    Apr 17, 2013 @ 13:06:52

    ‘Yet when one of these Black men get in trouble with White police or some other racial profiling nonsense, who are out freedom fighting, picketing and acting like crazed maniacs in the public and media? BLACK WOMEN. And yet, their non Black wives get to sit by and watch their husbands get defended by scores of SISTER SOLDIER BLACK WOMEN fighting his public battles and cries for EQUALITY, and these Non black wives get to sit and be quiet and enjoy being women who are not expected to fight and scream for a group of men’s right’s – not even their husbands.’

    Agree 100%! This is kind of related to your post – I was on a post at beyond black white about jamie foxx wearing a trayvon martin shirt. The author was discussing the racial hatred toward black men from whites about jamie foxx wearing the shirt. With no mention of black on black violence by their own people, or black women facing violence from their own people.

    And I’m saying I thought the whole point of web sites that empower black women were for black women to stop muling and being mammy’s for other blacks who don’t protect or support them when one of them -black girls and women – are being abused and killed. Because it doesn’t make black women look feminine to go around protecting men all the time. And I was banned from commenting on the article! That is so fucked up! – I don’t agree with all the things that are said on black womens sites. But the basics – how black women should focus more on being feminine.

    And stop muling for deadbeats in the black community. Stop spending their lives mammying and muling for other blacks who care nothing for them. And surround themselves with people who respect them and treat them right – I don’t see how they couldn’t understand that! Also, the author said she’s married to a black man with black kids. So black women that married black always feel the need to protect other black men to make sure people don’t bash all black men – when we simply point out things they need to fix, or stop doing. I’m debating now about commenting there, with the way they banned me, when I was simply trying to help other black women!



    • Neecy
      Apr 18, 2013 @ 22:24:55

      hey kia!!

      Yes I read that thread. I just cannot for the life of me understand why Black people continue to overlook their own pathologies and continue to piss and moan about WHite people not valuing them or their lives.

      NEWSFLASH!!! When Black people start respecting themselves, their culture, their women and each other then maybe others will. instead of these pissing moaning Black women carrying on about how racist everyone is towards Black men they will not put that wasted time and energy into something more productive like FIXING THEIR OWN COMMUNITY and HOLDING BLACK MEN ACCOUNTABLE for the lack of value they place on the lives of themselves, Black women and children.

      In this instance, she is complaining about the lack of “value” placed on Black lives by other races but did she or the many other Black people always bitching about this issue ever stop to look at the reality that BLACK MEN do not value their own BLACK lives?? How the hell can you tell other people to value you when its clear you do not value yourself? This is a simple concept that is obviously foreign to whining ass Black man saving Black women and people. FIX YOURSELF FIRST and others will follow.

      Its a simple case of clean up your own backyard before you go yelling to others.

      I am so sick of Black people overlooking the very things they claim others are doing to them and not recognizing the biggest problem is within Black people.

      A black male is more likely to die and be killed at the hands of another Black male. This is never a talking point amongst the Black man savior crowd of Black women or people.

      Yet when a White person or other kills a Black male or when some racist Non Blacks show little value for Black life (hum do Black people really show any value for black life?) suddenyl we are supposed to get up in arms?

      I’m so over it. And I stopped frequeting that site b/c frankly I can’t stand the obvious BAIT topics and there is a moderator there named Jamilia who I cannot stand and who I believe does a disservice overall to that site with her assinine posts.



      • Elegance
        Apr 18, 2013 @ 22:39:00


        I just had that author blow up at me because I didn’t have the same viewpoints. She got downright rude and personally insulting but I flagged the final comment. I think she was still upset about how people reacted to her post and took it out on me on Jamilla’s most recent post. Yeah I took the bait and posted there because I thought it would help her and others to understand why some BW get upset by some of their articles. I thought I was staying focused on the issue, snarky a couple of times, but she was totally out of line. Read the comments if you dare. I think most people actually agreed with me but whatever. I wasn’t even angry and she went away for 7 hours, then she came back and totally lost it. It was surprising but hey, I’m still not mad.

        Welcome back Neecy 🙂



        • Neecy
          Apr 18, 2013 @ 22:57:46

          Yeah I have been reading the comments on both topics. And of course I completely agree with you.

          LOL That site is more exhausting than it needs to be. i just can’t anymore.



  8. keisha
    Apr 18, 2013 @ 19:24:42

    Neecy – I hope you realize social Kenny is trying to game you into thinking that pua doesnt game women. Another black man coming into black women’s’ space trying to game black women.



  9. kia
    Apr 19, 2013 @ 01:36:42

    Neecy – ‘I’m so over it. And I stopped frequenting that site b/c frankly I can’t stand the obvious BAIT topics, and there is a moderator there named Jamila who I cannot stand and who I believe does a disservice overall to that site with her assinine posts.’

    Wise decision! I’m beginning to question some of the articles that are chosen for that site, and might switch to just reading the articles and refrain from commenting. Jamila was the one that banned me from the jamie foxx article. And JennMJack was calling me all kinds of names in that article! With the moderators doing nothing! These black women like JennMJack who married black, always come to defend black men. When they can defend themselves! Women don’t need to defend grown men! Its bizarre and so annoying!

    Shoutout to blogger Elegance! – I used to flag trolls at Beyond Black White. And they sent me emails telling me to stop flagging people! WTH?!?! F**** O*** BS!!!!!!

    With the jamie foxx article, and with their latest article about black women and recprocity. JennMJack and Jamila were encouraging black women to be mules for not just the black community, but the entire world! Bascially saying if black women aren’t spending any of their spare time helping others in some way, that they’re being selfish, and that means they don’t care about other people! WTH?!?!?

    And I was 100% agreeing with the blogger Elegance. Black women should look after there own needs first. And when black women choose to help others, they should first look to see if it will benefit them. Because black women have been helping all kinds of people for decades, and got nothing back in return.

    There’s a difference between buying a thanksgiving dinner for a homeless family, or giving free tutoring lessons once a week – I would do that! Or choosing not to take in your brother’s four kids, (which he knew he couldn’t afford to take care of before they were even born) because you can’t afford it. – I would not do that! Because your trying to use your own money and resources to become certified as a life coach, elevate yourself out of poverty, and eventually get married. And if you took on other people’s responsibilites – when you have limited money and resources for yourself – it would keep you from living the good life!

    Like black women are supposed to mule themselves out like slaves, regardless if the people they’re muling for don’t do the same for them! Those articles were ridiculous! This all goes back to black women being asked to take on masculine roles by their own people, by spending their lives being mules – even as their fellow black men don’t protect them! And other men in the global community never ask their women to protect them! Many times, black men are the ones who are abusing and killing black women! But they never mention that!

    They only get mad if its white killings black males! They never get mad about blacks killing blacks, black men abusing and killing black women, and all the other problems that have been causing the deterioration of the black community for decades!



    • Elegance
      Apr 19, 2013 @ 20:06:34

      Hi Kia 🙂

      I had to actually write a post on my blog about this just so I could get it out of my head. I feel a little bit annoyed by the Reciprocity post and that hasn’t happened in a while. I’m not even annoyed because that post and the Jaimie Post articles were written, it was mainly the way JennMMak acted being rude to me and Brenda and calling names. She wrote a really mean personal attack about me and I have to flag it 3 times. Then after she goes back saying she wrote it expecting it to be removed like it was nothing and she flips out on people like that all the time. She did that on her post with some people too. Someone I will definitely avoid. Blogging is actually starting to bore me lately, I feel like I want to sew things and do crafts instead lol!

      Also, Jamila clarified that by caring she doesn’t mean that BW have to actually do anything, they just have to “care” and feel empathy! So I’m having a good day, I have lots of things to do, and lot’s of things I should be doing (e.g., bettering myself, exercising, networking, reading important things etc.), but if I hear someone has been raped or something terrible happened to someone oceans away I must spend some time “caring” and putting myself in their shoes so I can feel their suffering? That will make me a global citizen because I’m “caring” by attempting to vicariously experience their pain instead or focusing on the positives of my life and not wasting a minute being sad when I don’t have to be? It’s my duty to humanity to feel bad whenever something bad happens? Um….what is the point of that? That doesn’t help the person who is suffering, it just interferes with me feeling grateful for my life and trying to enjoy every minute before it’s gone. I have to care because good people care even though they do absolutely nothing to try and remedy the situation? That’s okay, as long as they get upset and talk about it that makes them better than the people haters who don’t get upset over things they can’t change anyway?

      Sorry but if those suffering people could trade places with me they would not want to spend their time focusing on horrible things. They will help if they want to or else just live their lives. I’ll vote, donate to thing, help people for my career, but I’m not going to search for news about horrible things and get upset about it anymore. That is not good for anyone. If something big and important happens I always find out about it anyway and I decide how many details I want to hear and how much I want to let it affect me. Yes to me that is being a mule and taking on the suffering of others and I’m not doing it! I know about global suffering but i don’t want to wallow in it and feel guilty about my life being ok. I won’t make a big deal about my first world problems either.



      • Neecy
        Apr 20, 2013 @ 17:49:33

        Elegance I completely agree. I do believe in lending a hand wherever you can to help others, but how the hell can you help others when you can barely help yourself and you got boatloads of issues within your own group that need addressing???

        Black women are THEE LAST GROUP of women who should be out freedom fighting for every damn body b/c we got enough issues of our own collectivley that we could be fighting.

        That is just it! Black women feel like they gotta run and rescue every damn body but they never stop to think that doing all that mammying for everyone;s problems is the main reason we do not have a support system nor any calvaries coming to save us when we are in need.

        Then she throws out reciprocity like she doesn’t know what the hell it means in the context of BWE? GTFOH!!!

        That site has become so annoying with their nonsense baiting articles that its starting to actually insult the intelligence of Black women who first flocked to that site b/c it was a cog in the BWE wheel that encouraged, uplifted and motivated BW to love themselves FIRST and to STOP sacrificing and giving and caring about people who DO NOT care about us and who have not shown reciprocity to us.

        Its common knowledge that any HEALTHY relationships be them BUSINESS, INTIMATE, the most thriving are when both people are reciprocating. If only one party is doing all the giving and caring and the other party gets nothing out of it ITS UNHEALTHY! Why is this such a hard concept to understand with some BLACK WOMEN???



    • Neecy
      Apr 20, 2013 @ 17:34:54

      Yes when reading that article the first thing that came to my mind was “here we go once again we have Black women freedom fighting to save the Black man from the evil Whities who do not value thier lives”. Then I suddenly asked myself the very pertinent question: Why is it that these women get so up in arms ONLY when a White person is involved in “harming” or insulting Black men, yet the scores of Black men and people that die by the hour at the hands of Black men clearly says that its really Blacks that do not value the Black life. And if Black women freedom fighters cared about Black lives they’d start with the real culprits hindering adn causing genocide on Black men BLACK WOMEN and children. But that would mean they’d have to actually address their issues with Black men and thus hold them accountable *GASP!!!* Now we can’t do that now can we!! I mean Black men are not responsible for anything.

      I’m tired of these Black women they are so played and outdated with thier bullcrap. That is why they get pissed when they can’t see the forest for the trees when other progressive minded Black women are telling them “WHY SHOUDL WE CARE WHEN BLACK MEN DON’T CARE BAOUT THEMSELVES AND DAMN SURE DO NOT CARE ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS TO BLACK WOMEN”.

      Name the last time a Black male of any generation got up in arms over the racist propaganda Black women constantly face? You will here crickets chirping when asking these women this.

      yet they expect Black women to continue CARING about things and people who do not give a shit about us? And when you don’t they say you are not empathetic blah blah blah.

      i am sick of the mammies out there disguising themselves as BWE women.



  10. kia
    Apr 19, 2013 @ 01:39:27

    Sorry that was so long! – End of Rant!



  11. kia
    Apr 19, 2013 @ 17:30:53

    You can cut my second response rant about being banned. Repeating.



  12. kia
    Apr 19, 2013 @ 23:03:10

    Thanks for the insight Elegance! I’ll check out your site too!



  13. Robynne
    Apr 20, 2013 @ 14:00:56

    Lol, are you saying that the concept of reciprocity is now twisted to fit the (fading, thank goodness) status quo of bw being mules for everyone? There is a phrase that aptly fits this situation – some people are attempting to “pour old wine into new bottles.” In essence, these bad faith bw are attempting to pour the current dysfunctional anti-bw thinking (in this case – being mules, or water carriers for everyone) into the new reciprocity bottles, in the hope that the whole concept becomes bastardized. There is also the hope that said bastardization morphs into yet another form of acceptance of anti-bw dysfunction – if I am reading Kia’s & Elegance’s synopsis of the situation correctly.

    Some bw don’t have any pride at all and will gladly carry water for others, even when these others don’t pay them any mind at all, at best. These same bw will then get mad when other bw think enough of themselves to pass by that nonsense.

    Also, like I said on another thread, some of those articles are only written to generate controversy, and therefore more blog hits – because too many people just love drama, and don’t know when to walk away from nonsense. Bait, bait bait….



    • Elegance
      Apr 20, 2013 @ 17:39:20

      “There is a phrase that aptly fits this situation – some people are attempting to “pour old wine into new bottles.” In essence, these bad faith bw are attempting to pour the current dysfunctional anti-bw thinking (in this case – being mules, or water carriers for everyone) into the new reciprocity bottles, in the hope that the whole concept becomes bastardized. ”

      You know what, I like the way you explained it! That is what they are doing. A lot of us already feel bad about our lives of the lives of BW in general and they are pressuring us to feel bad for the rest of the world too otherwise we are not being “caring global citizens”. They want us to expose ourselves to more misery by saying if we don’t pay attention to their suffering then they won’t pay attention to ours. As if they know our private thoughts or something and we will ever get anything back. Maybe that works for your neighbors but I don’t know if that would happen on an international scale or with isolated groups (e.g., Native American women as mentioned in the original article).

      What they are proposing is BW making a sacrifice (e.g., doing something they don’t want or need to do that is unpleasant, and would take up their time and efforts) because maybe we will be rewarded and helped when we need it. I’ll do it if I want to and if I’m able but I don’t need them putting guilt trips on me about it. I care but I’m not going to care artificially out of guilt or fear that others will not care back. I’ll just let my feelings do what they do.

      Seriously, I’m not going to read internet comments most of the time, comment, or go back and forth with people if they don’t agree with me. What’s the point? I’m not going to put up with disrespect online that I would never tolerate offline. I don’t need that.



    • Neecy
      Apr 20, 2013 @ 17:42:47


      You hit it on the head. now Black women on BWE formus or forums directed towards a certain segment of Black women who are generaly on board with BWE, like BB&W are being “questioned” about what they mean by reciprocity. LOL Is she fkn serious???!!!

      If a BWE forum moderator has to ask that question b/c she doesn’t understand that concept under the guise of BWE then I don’t know what to say anymore.

      That particular moderator has serious issues and problems with straw manning Black women who do not agree with her concepts and theories. She throws out the atypical Black man retort when a Black woman refuses to jump on the mule, mammy bandwagon for others – especially other races of women who are more than protected.

      In her lastest she throws out (as an example of how Black women are not empathetic and caring) that Black women do not care about what happens to other races of women and rape. WHAT? UHM. You are so right. that is just blatant baiting that is obviously working.

      I mean I can’t even understand why intelligent Black women who are about BWE even entertain her nonsense anymore. its obvious baiting and its more than transparent.

      Example. The subject came up of White women feminists talking about how males make more on the dollar than women in the workforce. So when the question was raised as to how WW can complain about making less than men when they make more on the dollar than BM AND BW, her only retort was “you hate WW”. lol



      • Elegance
        Apr 20, 2013 @ 18:04:47

        “Example. The subject came up of White women feminists talking about how males make more on the dollar than women in the workforce. So when the question was raised as to how WW can complain about making less than men when they make more on the dollar than BM AND BW, her only retort was “you hate WW”. lol”

        And, if we help the White feminists then it will eventually help us too. If we help the White feminists then when BW have a problem or need help with their more severe problems then the feminists will come running to help us to pay us back. Yes it is the same argument! If we don’t join with them now and they succeed with their goals later on they will take revenge on us by never helping or being concerned with the things we do. In my opinion, all of these groups will do okay without the help of BW. They have White people, people from their own communities who are successful, and their governments to help them. BW are too small a group to help anyone but themselves.

        They are really tricky, I have to stay away from her posts.



    • Elegance
      Apr 20, 2013 @ 17:51:52

      You know Robynne I’m glad I read your comment because they almost got me! I was feeling a bit guilty like I was unfeeling and privileged but I don’t think I’m any different from most people who are not activists. We care but we aren’t going to get involved in everything. We may support a few causes that are close to us but we won’t get involved, think, or even try and find out about other bad things that are going on. If the people I know are suffering I care and I will do something. But I’m not going to feel bad all day over and over because some people in the world are suffering. I actually read about the way doing that can make people with great lives miserable and hopeless because they can’t save everyone and they don’t focus on the positives in their lives.

      They nearly got me. I usually avoid Jamila posts and from now on I know I must! And JennMMack posts too. I don’t tend to read things from Tracy either. Cut out the negative influences!



      • Neecy
        Apr 20, 2013 @ 17:57:04

        Yeah avoid their posts. Its sad what that site has become since those moderators have come there. I am not saying every post is about kumbaya, but many of her posts especially (Jamilas) are insulting to the intelligence of progressive minded Black women.

        And I thought JennJack would be much smarter than to go on some diatribe about racist white people not valuing the lives of Black men when she sees right before her eyes that Black men DO NOT VAUE Black life and are the biggest culprits in taking Black life, terrorizing Black women and children and such.

        i actually thought she was more intelligent than that. But I guess you can never underestimate an American Black woman these days b/c so many are still stuck in the matrix and are disguising themselves as BWE pushers. I’m no longer falling for it.



  14. E. Wilson (@SheThrives11)
    Apr 27, 2013 @ 22:35:06

    I was also a frequent visitor of BW&W and have recently decided not to visit the site at all. Before this decision, I was rarely commenting because I disagreed so much with what Jamila, Jenn, and Tracy were posting. I also don’t like it that the blog mistress and her group of writers are profiting from posts that come across the exact opposite of what BWE stands for. I should never have to go to a site that is managed by a blog mistress who claims she operates on principles of BWE but allows moderators to author posts that questions reciprocity and promotes muling. Wolves in sheep skin…



    • Elegance
      Apr 29, 2013 @ 06:49:38

      I just have to defend the BB&W blog mistress for a minute because people are getting the wrong idea about how that site works. I write for the site now so this is how it works with me. I was asked to write one post per week and I get a small payment for that (enough to buy a sandwich basically so it’s not like I’m making a living doing this. Maybe other writers get more, I don’t know).

      When I have an idea I just write it and post it. It’s not like a newspaper where I submit something to an editor and she approves it or the editor tells me what to write. I just do it and she has never edited or removed one of my posts. So I am basically an independent blogger posting whatever I choose on the site. She has never told me what to write or what not to write. She told me she liked a lot of what I wrote on my own blog and wanted a different voice on BB&W that shared more of her views. For all we know she doesn’t like what Jamila posts either. The blog mistress’s own posts however tend to be BWEish but she is not responsible for what other writers post. Remember this is a new form of media not like a newspaper that has the same responsibility to the public with trained journalists writing, it’s entertainment and a hobby. I’m pretty much volunteering to write to help women out as a hobby. Lately I have been running out of things to write and the pleasure is drained out of this hobby when people complain about what you are writing and demand you do A; B, and C to please them when they have the choice to just skip your posts. Writing is not easy.

      Also, the site is not BWE. BWE is a term used exclusively by I think 5-7 bloggers who coined the term. She wanted to be a part of BWE but they would not let her. So her blog is just something for black women that is often empowering but all writers are not instructed to write BWE all the time. Although I do not read Jamila or Tracy’s posts, and probably won’t read Jenn\s either, I think there must be someone who likes what they write because I do see some supportive comments. But their posts are definitely not for me. I don’t know if they even like BWE because for sure Jamila is a feminist.



      • Neecy
        May 01, 2013 @ 22:06:55

        Her blog may not be BWE, but the principles and foundation of it was based on that. I was apart of that site 3 years ago.

        What separates her blog from the rest of the Black blogs (not BWE blogs) is that the foundation is based on the PRINCIPLES of BWE which include self reliance, progress and getting away from the typical crabs in a barrell mentality that so many BW have had. It’s *idea* is to teach BW to empower themselves and live their best lives.

        A lot of the original members of the forum have left b/c she started straying away from these principles.

        Either way, BWE blog or not, some of those articles are your typical run of the mill Black folks nonsense filled with DRAMA.



    • Neecy
      May 01, 2013 @ 22:03:19

      Funny I have the same dislike of the authors. maybe not Jenn so much she just kinda shocked me with her Sister Soldiering post for Black men. But Tracy and Jamila have definitley turned me off from that site. Jamila especially.

      I think we all have to come to a point where we ask ourselves if a particular site, blog or other entity targeting Black women is really up to our own individual tastes. I have been apart of that blog and left before and now this time I have left for good.

      I like Christelyn a lot and I believe she has her heart in the right place, but some of the posts those authors write could be found on an essence online blog which is NOT a good thing.

      I just have low tolerance for drama and baiting.



  15. Kia
    May 02, 2013 @ 08:39:43

    JennMJack was sister soldiering so hard for black men against white racism because she said she married a black man, and has a black son. And I told her, I have two older brothers who are black, along with other black male family members – so its not like I don’t care for black men. I’m just saying that black men have enough support and protection right now! Its time to start supporting and protecting black girls and women now! But she wasn’t trying to hear that!

    Black women that married black ALWAYS feel the extra need to protect black men! While ignoring the black on black violence in the black community, and the violence towards black girls and women from other black men! – She never brought that up!
    And when I brought that up she cursed me out and whined to the moderators, and got me banned from commenting on the article!

    When she wasn’t banned for cursing me out! And calling me ‘A black penis hating black woman’! I’m also stating that the entire site isn’t bad. However comma, some of the articles now are going against what they say they’re trying to do for black women. And I don’t automatically agree with women just because they’re other black women. And I also feel like saying that Christelyn IS aware of the type of articles that are posted on her site. Because she OWNS the site.

    And I’m not trying to nitpick everything that is said on black womens’ site. Just saying the basic fundamentals when it comes to black women living the good life – muling and mammying for other blacks has not helped black women at all. And some of the black women moderators and contributors have a backwards mentality that don’t need to be on BB&W.



    • Neecy
      May 03, 2013 @ 10:03:25

      And I’m not trying to nitpick everything that is said on black womens’ site. Just saying the basic fundamentals when it comes to black women living the good life – muling and mammying for other blacks has not helped black women at all. And some of the black women moderators and contributors have a backwards mentality that don’t need to be on BB&W.




  16. Elegance
    May 03, 2013 @ 09:10:48

    Well, on the recent feminism post on BB&W (stating that 72% of women don’t call themselves feminists) Jamilia has come out to say she is NOT in support of BWE but she is a strong supporter of feminism. Based on the post you can see that Chris does not have the same views.

    So there you go. Jamila is not in support of Black women focusing more on helping themselves and getting a better life while ignoring the people who want their time/money/devotion without reciprocating. She believes that in order to be good people we need to care about people outside of our communities and causes that have not shown reciprocity because that will make us better people or be rewarded in the future. So if someone is writing from that mentality then I doubt I will agree with what she writes. So no point in bringing up BWE ideas to her because she doesn’t support them.



  17. kia
    May 03, 2013 @ 09:45:52

    Excellent observation Elegance!



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