Do You Have ‘Victim Mentality’? What To Do About It

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/794628

Ok the article was poorly written (look whose talkin! Yeah but no one is paying me to write – Lol) but you get the jist.

Moving forward, my blog will not focus on VICTIMHOOD.

It will simply be about ACKNOWLEDGING & UTILIZING the power that you have as a Black woman.

No more blaming the black church, black community, black men, or anyone!

It’s time for BW to poop or just get off the pot! Time is running out and there is no more room for VICTIMHOOD. This world is changing RAPIDLY (for the worse) and for those BW who cannot get it together, they will be in a really bad place! I’m not kidding. When I look at where thus world is headed its scarey, but even scarier for powerless BW stuck in VICTIMHOOD status.

If you are a BW who wants to blame everyone else for the choices you make, you won’t like this blog.

I’m changing my tune because time is running out for Black women. It’s imperative BW start making better choices and holding themselves accountable or things will just get worse.

I don’t think some BW truly realize the power we have – and I pity the fools!

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50 Comments (+add yours?)

  1. Rae
    Nov 06, 2014 @ 02:15:29

    I like this post . Truth be told your the only bwe log I check out now. Another thing I hate about karazin’s blog was her blog was ALWAYS about black men and from the looks of it most of the women are still single years later. I’m
    Sorry but truth be told I don’t think black women have the option of datibg interracially;not because of us, but it’s because of nonblack men. Our image has been somewhat permanently damaged in America because of black men. Karazin’s also makes it look like nonblack men don’t degrade our image as well. Like you said in another blog most I think black women need to be honest with themselves. The women on karazin’s blog keep saying nonblack men are scared and keep making excuses. My mom has dated interracially long term with white men but it’s extremely hard and we live in NYC. She went to a singles event and she told me that only 2 nonblack men approached. As much as we don’t get along she has always been honest with me. I lived here in NYC my whole life and its extremely rare to see a black woman with a nonblack man and its about to be 2015. Even though I’m 19 and have never has a boyfriend I know that if a man sees something he will go out and grab it. It’s one of the reasons I think black women are going to have to go abroad to find love. I for am doing that along with getting my masters abroad. Black women are the most socially disadvantaged group in America. I can’t wait to see your future blog posts because I agree the victim hood is something most black women need to overcome even though I don’t think they will!

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    • DiraD
      Nov 06, 2014 @ 07:39:20

      Whenever reading BW centric material, you will have to separate the wheat from the chaff. Interracial dating is possible and has encouraged by not only BB&W, but by well respected BWE bloggers such as Evia, Khadija, Sara et al. Interracial dating is not about putting nonBM on a pedestal, but about BW expanding our options to live the fulfilling lives. We, BW, have been fishing in a dirty, polluted pond that yielded very few quality fish. We were told by the fish that if we simply gave more and put more effort into taking care of the pond, the fish would be better. Instead, after years of effort, prayer and sacrifice, the yield of fish is even poorer in quality. So what should we fisherwomen do? Continue to invest in the pond and wish for quality fish? Or pack up, start fishing in the ocean where the odds of catching a quality fish are better?

      Personally, I feel that wallowing/despairing in our (BW) damaged reputations is a form of victimhood. While we cannot control how others portray us, we can control our individual images. For example, we can control how we dress, speak and comport ourselves. We can control our body weight. We can control our money and efforts by not giving them to unsavory groups. In time, our individual efforts will add up to a force to be reckoned with. Just look at history, specifically revolutions. Revolutions succeed not because of a consensus amongst a majority, but because a small group of people have the will to change their circumstances.

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      • Neecy
        Nov 06, 2014 @ 10:09:41

        Personally, I feel that wallowing/despairing in our (BW) damaged reputations is a form of victimhood. While we cannot control how others portray us, we can control our individual images. For example, we can control how we dress, speak and comport ourselves. We can control our body weight. We can control our money and efforts by not giving them to unsavory groups. In time, our individual efforts will add up to a force to be reckoned with. Just look at history, specifically revolutions. Revolutions succeed not because of a consensus amongst a majority, but because a small group of people have the will to change their circumstances.

        Thank you Dira! I was going to respond to that and yiu summed it up.

        Rae, BW have the power to cange our situations to work in our favor. But it will take TIME and a willingness on BW’s part to stop playing the victim, to stop saying out indoctrination is holding us back, to become more critical thinkers, stop aligning with people who are destroying our image for thier favor, and to start promoting ourselves as we see oursleves.

        I see this as a MAJOR wake up call before the tsunami destroys what is left of Black women. Seriiusly, this is a great time for BW to be revolutionary and make history for oursleves once and for all. If we miss this opportunity because we are feeling sorry for oursleves and blaming everyone for why we cannot get ahead of the game, we will lose and be swept away.

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    • Neecy
      Nov 06, 2014 @ 09:59:23

      @ RAE!!

      I can understand. But like Dira D says. With anything on the net you have to take the meat and throw away the bone. You can’t always throw away the baby with the bathwater.

      While a particular blog may not be your cup of tea, don’t completely let that blog dissuasade you from seeing the reality of things. I cannot stand many of the self righteous women commenters on Christelyn’s blog. They get under my skin. But i like Christelyn as a person and although I don’t relate to many of the articles on that site, I understand what she is trying to do for BW. I don’t hold her accountable for her audience and I don’t put down the entirety of her blog because i cannot stand many of her commenters (and 1 of her regualr writers).

      Once again, not throwing the baby out with the bath water is somehting that we as BW also have to learn. Sometimes we have to learn when something still holds value and we just have to take out the parts that have zero meaning to us and keep the parts that can help us.

      In terms of IR. Its imperative for BW to expand their dating options to other races , if BW want to have an opportinity to increase her odds at having families and being in marriages and just relationships in general.

      i don’t preach too much on the IR tip on tip blog because I have a diff POV on how BW should go about it. I think BW should stop talking about stuff and just DO IT. i believe too much time is spent hand holding BW to do what they already know they should be doing. I’m all about BW self preservation and empowerment first. I believe with that messaging, Interracial dating becomes a default.

      But there are blogs that serve that purpose to give BW step by step guidance and support on dating out the race and and also give a message of empowerment like Evia’s. Have you visited her blog? you should. She doesn’t have annoying commenters and she not only provides support for dating iR, but she also teaches empowerment which leads to interacial dating. That is more of my cup of tea.

      While certain blogs may like Chris go a little extreme on the issue, I think the heart is in the right place in trying to tell BW to stop placing all thier eggs in one basket because it will not hatch anything but dead rotten chickadees.

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  2. onthewaydown
    Nov 06, 2014 @ 05:09:27

    Agreed that we have much more power over our lives than many of us believe.

    I’ve done the victimhood thing–in years past, it was the obvious kind, but then in more recent years it was the “stiff upper lip” victim that Lefkoe referred to in the article. It’s only this year that I decided to stop feeling sorry about the results I created (well, first I had to recognize that I created those results in the first place). Steve Pavlina has some great posts that have helped me reframe how I view life and make choices (though some of his posts are out there, so anyone who checks his blog out can proceed with caution).

    What I find odd is how much people want to hold onto victimhood status. Yeah, I’ve been there before, so I get it–it’s safe. But it really doesn’t feel good, and it doesn’t yield good results. While taking responsibility for your thoughts and actions is difficult at first, it’s liberating once you realize how taking responsibility for yourself can drastically change your life.

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    • Neecy
      Nov 06, 2014 @ 10:21:43

      ONTHEWADOWN,
      Yes! i don’t think there is a human alive that hasn’t at some point placed themselves in victimhood status. i think its human nature to default to the easiest way out of acknowledging our weaknesses and mistakes.

      I have had some major things in my life that when i finally saw them for what they were, were my own doing. And i didn’t improve on those things until I learned the concept of owning up to and taking responsibility for my own choices and actions – even THOUGHTS. A persons thoughts are the main culprit of victimhood. That is one thing that I have learned in church is what you say about yourself and how you think will manifest. I didn’t realize the power of my words and thoughts.

      The flip side of avoiding victimhood is sometimes you become too hard on yourself when you actually make mistakes and do things you know are not moving you forward. Because I’m naturally a tough love kind of person even on myself) I can beat myself up for things. So now I am learning to have balance. Not be a victim, but aso not be a person that beats myself up when I make mistakes.

      I think BW are in a sink or swim stage right nw. That is why I say there is very little room anymore for victimhood beacause the world is not going to wait for BW to de-indoctrinate themselves and start taking control of our lives.

      The calvary isn’t coming, there is no safety net. Which gives BW very little wriggle room to make silly mistakes or to keep doing things against her own best interests and then playing the blame game.

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  3. Neecy
    Nov 06, 2014 @ 10:32:56

    Society is changing. Jobs are becomming tighter, racism is rearing its ugly head more than ever and things are changing. No one cares to pick a BW up and carry her across the finish line because folks are looking out for themselves and trying to keep themselves afloat.

    One thing I know for sure, if BW want to be on the side of the winning, high value/quality and upwardly mobile, there will be no time for victimhood playing. Those kinds of people will thrush you aside so fast your head will spin.

    No one will offer a job or want to work around a person that is constantly the victim. i see the HATRED directed towards people on my job and in previous jobs who constantly moan and groan about how thier circumstances or this or that is the reason why they can’t perform or do well.

    I have seen with my own eyes in various work position, the people who never took responsibility for thier mistakes or just inabulity to do well, were pushed out in the most agressive of ways. I know of TWO women this happened to in two different companies I worked at. I also saw those who owned up to thier downfalls and mistakes get SYMPATHY and even got what they needed to do better than those who kept playing the blame game! I’m one of them.

    I was under a RUTHLESS manager at one point. But if I got called on something and i knew deep down i could have done better, I owened up to it and even went far to ask for advice on what to do to get better. Guess what? i got everything i needed and support. my friend who i love dearly (shes White)? She chose the vcitm route and instead blamed her shortcomings on everyone else and “circumstances”. She was hated by everyone on the team and this guy did everything in his power to get her out and HE DID.

    NO ONE wants to work or be around another person who cannot own up to thier shortcomings and blames everyone else for them while others are working thier butts off to become better by acknowledging where they have shortcomings and working on them.

    That’s just a MINOR example of many.

    VICTIMHOOD will be the nail in the coffin for BW in these times where people are ruthless. Noit only that, in times where we as BW are tolerated and not celebrated, do not give anyone a reason to write you off as pathetic and unworthy. Cause theywill.

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    • neurochick
      Nov 07, 2014 @ 06:53:33

      You are so right about that. At some point, an adult has to take ownership of the things they do, the choices they make.

      I can’t stand being around people with the “woe is me” attitude. It’s boring and does nothing but drag you down, because people like that just want to live in the problem. Sure, we can’t control how the media portrays BW, but you can control yourself and how you come across; and that makes people want to get to know you, because they will see you’re not crazy. Besides, healthy men observe women before they approach you, they want to make sure you’re not crazy.

      You know what helps in life, solutions. In 12 step programs, if someone’s moaning about something, you ask them, “what step are you on? What step will help with that?” You want to live in the solution, not the problem.

      I have a question Neecy, to this comment you make, I see this as a MAJOR wake up call before the tsunami destroys what is left of Black women.

      What do you think that tsunami will be? I have a few ideas and a lot of them were formed some 20 years ago. Where I worked then, we were having high school students to do minor clerical work. One young lady, about fifteen, was asked to alphabetize files for the doctor, and when he looked at them, he saw SHE COULDN’T DO IT. She could not alphabetize the files, she did not know her alphabet, she was fifteen years old.

      That gave me the shivers. I knew the alphabet when I was six, or younger.

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      • Neecy
        Nov 17, 2014 @ 15:53:49

        @ NEUROCHIK

        What do you think that tsunami will be?

        I believe that as the times are changing people are becoming less patient with those who cannot take responsibility for their actions that result in unfortunate consequences. Because we are living in an already hostile society against BW, there is no one willing to “give” BW a benefit of the doubt or GIVE us anything. Which means that is BW keep making silly non productive life threatening choices, no one will be behind her to help her pick up the pieces. And frankly, a lot of the crap in BW’s lives results from BLACK WOMEN not standing up for themselves and owning up to their power.

        No one wants to hear it anymore. BW have allowed their communities and men basically stomp down her womanhood and have done nothing. The world sees this and the world does not care to hear BW’s cries because they see how BW have done nothing but continue to support criminals and a community that glamourizes death, disease, anti-woman, anti-children.

        What I mean by Tsunami is we will soon be in a world and society where jobs, housing and such will be scarce and left only for those who have been smart enough to make things happen for themselves. Everyone nowadays is trying to get ahead. No one has time to coddle BW for making silly and life threatening choices anymore. And the BW who do not get this and quick will be LEFT BEHIND still wallowing in their victimhood ALONE.

        If BW cannot use this time to empower themselves and their choices, then BW never will.

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  4. foosrock!
    Nov 08, 2014 @ 05:04:07

    Personally I find it childish to disparage someone’s blog on another blog. It’s “Highschoolish” behaviour and screams: “monolith”. While I may not agree with some articles or comments on many bwe blogs, including this one, I find it much more effective for one’s sanity and equilibrium to either argue one’s opinion, agree to disagree, or just move on. Why continuously beat a dead horse?. All these blogs are trying to do some good, repair damages, shouldn’t we keep that as the focus?.

    In terms of helping to overcome “victimhood”, I’ve found travelling could help. Although many may not have the funds, was thinking, apart from the constant talking, what about funding to help those to “escape” even if for 2wks?. So much can happen then. I’d be willing to help fund any black girl/woman who frequent these blogs on such an endeavour. Not only with money, but in terms of being a contact (accommodation). Let’s start putting our money where our mouths are. Enough with talking!!!.

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    • Neecy
      Nov 17, 2014 @ 15:56:13

      @ FOOS!!
      Yes traveling!!!

      My travel buddy wants to go to Brazil next year. I’m not too excited about Brazil but I do want to travel there one day. I guess my European trip will have to wait the following year.

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  5. truthp
    Nov 08, 2014 @ 08:14:01

    @foosrock this is debatable. “All these blogs are trying to do some good, repair damages, shouldn’t we keep that as the focus?. ” However I do think the blog owners with ill intent get what’s coming to them time and time again.You don’t even have to wish bad on them it just happens. I’ve seen certain bloggers complain about the very treatment they dished out to others. They pretend not to get why people may be upset,frustrated ,angry or side eye at something they did until the same thing happens to them. I am in agreement with you that black women should stay focused on living well but part of that is weeding certain people with agendas, that don’t help and sometimes might hurt black women, out.

    @Rae I have to say I am in disagreement with what you said.I don’t believe black women just can’t get a non black man because these men are not willing. I am fat.I am brown to dark skinned depending on the weather.I am not rich and am working on getting into college still.I am not hurting for white male attention or offers of dates.I am not a special snowflake.These men are employed making more than me.I 100% do not believe that black women,many of which are more educated fit and prettier than me, can’t attract white or other non black men. The majority of men I attract are black then white and there has been a Mexican. My aunt,3 friends at work,1 overweight woman at church are married to white men.1 friend at work is engaged to a biracial man.I have cousins friends acquaintances etc. who are low and medium on the socioeconomic ladder who have dated white men (a couple are “ratchet”).I live in Ohio where I saw a black girl with an Asian guy.My former black woman manager is married to a white man. I don’t do anything special to attract men period.Some people think I should.I am very plane jane and fat. Yet I get offers.The only reason I am not married is because I choose not to be at this time.

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  6. Rae
    Nov 08, 2014 @ 09:26:03

    @truthp, excuse me, but where did I say that black women can’t get nonblack men? I never said that. My mom who is black has dated several white men and I am open to white men myself. The women on BBW have been on that site for years and from the looks of it are STILL SINGlE!

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  7. truthp
    Nov 08, 2014 @ 12:10:01

    “Sorry but truth be told I don’t think black women have the option of datibg interracially;not because of us, but it’s because of nonblack men.”

    Maybe I misread or misunderstood that?I’m not sure.There was no disrespect intended toward you in my comment above.Just a disagreement.

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  8. truthp
    Nov 08, 2014 @ 12:25:05

    As for the women on BBW,I am sorry to hear that some of them have been there for years and are still single….if they don’t want to be.I didn’t know that BBW was a matchmaking site? I do agree that prejudices abound in America but still find it hard to believe that some women who would be deemed better than me in a lot of ways can’t get non black men for dates. I could go out on a date today with a white guy who is kind, employed and old school (we wouldn’t go dutch) if I’d like and to some people I’m probably considered below average. I definitely agree that black women should travel to experience different cultures and date or marry if they have been having too many troubles with American men.I have seen some of these prejudices play out against black women here and I don’t like it.

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    • Neecy
      Nov 17, 2014 @ 16:00:11

      Honestly,
      Right now I think the best successes BW will have in terms of IR is for those American BW who travel across the pond. Too much anti BW negativity and racism these days in America. This is not to say BW cannot find a good American Non BM, but i wouldn’t put all my eggs in that basket. The way I feel about American BW wating on finding American Non BM to date is the same I feel about BW waiting on Black men in general. It will not garner much success IMO unless BW travel abroad and start finding Non BM.

      BW need to TRAVEL and get out into the world and start embracing other cultures and other cultres of men. We have nothing to lose at this point and have all to gain by doing so. Also this gives BW an opportunity to have dual citizenship not only in America but in her prospective Boo’s country as well. Which in this day is an advantage.

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  9. Rae
    Nov 08, 2014 @ 12:31:53

    I apologize, I didn’t see that I wrote that. I’m sorry again, in I forgot to add the word most in between ‘think’ and ‘black’. Also, i was referring to the women on BBW blog. I agree with everything you said btw and Neecy too. Neecy is the only bwe blog that I feel is realistic and has common sense. As a 19 year old, I Just cant help but feel that way though. Btw, Am I the only black woman that has noticed the proliferation of videos on face book of young black men dressing up as, mocking, and pretending to be black women? It hurts and its embarrassing as well. Other races of men can see this around the world.Why is this funny to black men? What I don’t see other races of men doing it extensively the way black men are doing it. I don’t believe in anyway that black women are inferior or undesirable. I was just making that statement in regards to our image; an image that I can only control as an individual as Neecy put it.

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    • Neecy
      Nov 17, 2014 @ 16:04:54

      Actually RAE you aren’t very far off. I completely agree that the best success BW will have dating out of the race will be by crossing the American pond into other European territories.

      But i think people read your post as saying it was simply IMPOSSIBLE for BW to find love in America which I don’t think that is. But I don’t think its the best idea for BW to wait on American Non BM to fulfill that void.

      I get what you are saying though. There is simply too much heavy anti BW nonsense in America to make it very easy for BW to find LTR and partners solely in the USA.

      Of course BW should still try and keep thier options open, but they should not expect it to be very easy right now – which I think a lot of newly interested in IR BW believe – that it will be as easy as opening your options.

      It will probably be easier for a BW to go somewhere like Netherlands, Australia and find a good LTR prospect than sitting soley on American soil waiting for American Non BM.

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      • Rae
        Nov 18, 2014 @ 00:23:51

        Thank you Neecy for getting it. Considering the fact that what’s happening in ferguson and seeing the reaction and comments from white men online interracial MARRIAGE is not an option for most bw. Another thing that black women don’t get is that MARRIAGE and DATING are two different things. It seems that american wm are willing to date bw but not marry them. Out of my observations. Again, I agree with your response!

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  10. Olu
    Nov 08, 2014 @ 14:07:43

    Hey Neecy!
    Good to see another couple of entries from you, I’ve missed reading your blog. I agree with you about the victim mentality. While I read and comment at BBW too, I have noticed that the space seems to be less about IR relationships and more about venting about BM and the state of BW in America (I don’t even think this was Christelyn’s intention in particular, I just think she caters to what readers want and respond to). Don’t get me wrong, I pick up some gems from some articles and many comments, but it’s usually from certain commenters who tend to actually be in IR relationships or seem to be BW who are disengaged from the black female victimhood narrative. When writer Elegant challenged BBW writers and readers to go a month without talking about BM, folks went in on her. It showed me what’s really going on there.

    I remember a while back on one entry, on an article on out of wedlock births or something, one reader made an insightful comment that she didn’t want to assign the victimhood status to BW that BM had used to justify their wrongdoing towards black women and black communities. She didn’t say it exactly like that, but the point was that the same BW who were claiming that BM had been allowed to do wrong because they used their oppressed status to blame all of their bad choices on black women and white men, were the same women who were all too ready to give BW permission to use their oppressed status to blame all of their bad choices on black men and American society.

    BW give up their power to others and then when it is used against them, fail to acknowledge that it was they who *decided* to give it up in the first place. I truly don’t see how people with this kind of mentality can make it in this life…and rarely do they. One look at their legacies and lineages shows you this. We all have agency. And, while I am not trying to downplay the indoctrination that many BW receive since birth, it only takes a comparison of one’s condition (and the average black woman’s condition in the U.S. and throughout the world) to the average condition of other groups of women in this country (WW, AW, HW) to see something isn’t equal between us and try to bridge that gap. True, BW do not collectively have the resources and protections that these groups of women have. But BW individually can strive to have what these other women have–marriage, healthy supportive neighbors/community members, jobs that pay well, etc.

    Personally, I didn’t grow up in an ideal home, and my father wasn’t a great father to me and my sibling or a great husband to our mom. (Btw, my parents immigrated here from W. Africa, and some us BW born in America to African parents know what the deal is with many of these one-sided black-black relationships even if we were raised in two-parent homes.) Had I taken what he modeled as normal, my conception of what a good man is might be skewed toward abnormality. But instead, I looked around me at the other kinds of fathers I saw…in other homes, among other groups, what these men did for their wives and their kids, and I was able to recognize traits a man needs to possess to be marriage material. And looking at my father, I have seen what traits to look out for in a men to recognize that they were NOT marriage material and avoid that.
    I know because of my circumstances, I didn’t begin at the same starting point as women who have good paternal models, but I’m not going to let it 1) make me wallow in self-pity, or 2) allow me to justify to making a *choice* to make mistakes because I know I will not choose to make those mistakes. I wish other BW could look at their situations as a lesson and learn from it, rather than jumping to blame others for bad choices they make.

    And I wish BW would realize that *other* black women undermine our collective more than BM because these BW choose to birth, defend, coddle, and prioritize the BM who are anti-black woman. I think that if they really acknowledged this, they would see that there is no use in continuing to rail against black men since other black women have given BM permission to step on our collective, and they would be forced to move on as individual BW. Not all BW can be saved; not all BW are allies; and not all are models of what BW should aspire to in life. Each BW must be ready to chart her own path, and use her individual power to get her where she needs to be. Yeah, there are always excuses but life doesn’t accommodate most excuses.
    Can’t wait to read more entries from you! 😀

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    • Neecy
      Nov 17, 2014 @ 16:21:05

      OLU THANK YOU FOR THIS POST!!

      You mentioned a very important thing. There is definitely something different about the way in which Non BW in this country go about protecting their best interests, that BW seem to not be able to catch onto. Like Khadija said in one of her posts “if you are the only person doing something, then you are probably not doing the right thing” or something to that effect (please forgive Khadija is I completely screwed up the quote lol) but you get the jist.

      The fact is BW are the only women who seem to be doing things against our own best interests as women, when we have PERFECT examples of how we as women can protect ourselves and make better gains for ourselves.

      If BW can get beyond the issues we are having with Non BW and actually the some of the good things they have managed to accomplish for themselves and APLLY that to how we live, we’d be better off. But so many BW have their heads so far up the BM, Black community’s ass they are unwilling to acknowledge that what we have been doing for centuries is NOT WORKING for us.

      Victimhood and blaming aint going to get BW anywhere! That is why I am taking a strong stand against it even though I clearly understand the roots of why BW are in the position we are in which is indoctrination. But the only way the indoctrination breaks is if BW wake the hell up and see how that indoctrination is working against her. If BW choose not to do this, it will be no one’s fault but her own. No one is going to suddenly stop trying to indoctrinate BW! WHY WOULD THEY? They benefit from it. Clearly others can see the forest for the tree in why it behooves them to keep BW indoctrinated. Yet BW can’t seem to see that doing the same shit over and over again and not garnering any POSITIVE results is INSANITY.,

      No one has time for BW victimhood anymore. Because American BW have it MADE compared to our other sisters in other parts of the globe who have NO OPTIONS AT ALL.

      If BW choose to continue to play the victim role when we live in a country full of women’s rights and full of opportunities as women to make a way for ourselves, then it’s no one’s fault but BW.

      I cannot support this nonsense of BW blaming the damn church for why they didn’t use common sense.

      I cannot support the continuous crying of “colorism” when all BW have to do is BREAK OFF from the Black community and no longer have to deal with that nonsense. I can no longer deal with BW waiting for BM to take responsibility for their single motherhood when BW need to learn that having kids with no good men will not benefit her or her children! Keep your legs closed and start demanding better standards for yourself.

      We can sit and talk about how BM need to do this and that – but THEY have yet to show in interest in doing so. So what does that mean? That means BW need to make better choices to avoid low life dead beat dad men by NOT sleeping with them, NOT having kids with them. It is a woman’s ultimate choice who she sleeps with and pro creates with.

      I will no longer sit and support blogs or people trying to get BM to accept their role in the OOW nonsense in the Black community. I wont support anymore talks about how the BC and Black Chucrh are causing BW to not be able to have full lives. unless these entities are putting a loaded gun to a BW’s head, there is no more excuses for BW not using common sense an dopening her eyes to the obvious.

      Because BW cannot change BM’s actions (or lack thereof). Black women can only CHANGE their actions, thoughts and processes to better her life. If BW choose not to do that then OH WELL – get left behind and see who will come to rescue you for the crappy choices that YOU as a BW made. (not you but just in general Black women.).

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  11. Khadija Nassif
    Nov 09, 2014 @ 19:05:03

    Part 1

    A bit of partial dissent here (and please excuse the length of this comment because it can’t be covered in a soundbite):

    I firmly believe in agency AND accountability. For everybody. Former blog readers often send me links to various posts in the BW blogosphere, and there often seem to be overlapping, interlocking conversations. This conversation sounds like it might be somewhat overlapping with a recent blog post from Beyond Black & White that a reader sent me. It was a post in which the writer asserted that the Black church “cheated” her out of the possibility of marriage and children of her own.

    My point of concern is that African-Americans (AAs) have the destructive habit of veering toward one extreme or another. Discussions end up being about “either/or” when circumstances suggest they should be “both/and.”

    People who’ve been victimized DO have agency, and the ability to work on escaping whatever negative circumstances they’re being subjected to. AND the predators that victimized them ALSO need to be held accountable for their misdeeds.

    In my opinion—again, I’m only speaking for myself—there IS something horribly wrong with the AA Slave Church, AA Slave Mosque and [Black Hebrew Israelite] AA Slave Synagogue. Just compare the quality of life of the members of AA houses of worship to the baseline average quality of life of members of non-Black/AA houses of worship. Just compare the marriage rates, bastard baby rates, criminal conviction rates, educational attainment rates, and any other measure one might care to use.

    The AA Slave Church, AA Slave Mosque and [Black Hebrew Israelite] AA Slave Synagogue are playgrounds and hunting grounds for:

    (1) promiscuous straight BM (including married ministers, imams, rabbis);
    (2) down-low BM;
    (3) BM pedophiles
    (4) aging, broke-down “playas” who are looking–at age 40+—to finally settle down and need to find a gullible younger church lady to be their nurse as they start to have health issues.
    (5) BM who are working various 12-step programs,
    (6) BM who are wife-beaters/woman-beaters,

    and so on. See various blogs and posts, including:

    COGIC Abuse Watch, which in a 9/4/14 post explains that its coverage is based on “official legal documents and or verified media reports (which also cite court records) and/or official COGIC documents.”
    https://cogicabusewatch.wordpress.com/

    “Abul Hasan Malik, Hedonistic Sex Fiend “Imam” of Philadelphia, Preys on Muslim Sisters!”
    http://singularvoice.wordpress.com/2011/10/23/abul-hasan-malik-hedonistic-sex-fiend-imam-of-philadelphia-preys-on-muslim-sisters/

    “Mother of killed woman confronts ‘Black Hebrew’ leader”
    http://www.wncn.com/story/22766118/black-hebrew-leader-to-be-sentenced-today

    One might say that these are “extreme” examples. Are they? I don’t think they are. I think these are just some of the most notorious examples of the widespread Spiritual Malpractice that goes on in AA slave houses of worship.

    Like I said earlier, just compare the average quality of life of the AABW who attend Black churches, mosques, synagogues with the average quality of life of Christian, Muslim, Jewish women who attend non-Black houses of worship.

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    • neurochick
      Nov 13, 2014 @ 05:08:11

      Have to say something here. Nothing wrong with working 12 step programs.

      If someone’s working 12 step programs, at least they know they have issues and are doing something about it. What’s bad are BM who aren’t working any program and don’t think they have issues but do.

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      • Khadija Nassif
        Nov 13, 2014 @ 05:32:59

        You said, “Have to say something here. Nothing wrong with working 12 step programs.

        If someone’s working 12 step programs, at least they know they have issues and are doing something about it. What’s bad are BM who aren’t working any program and don’t think they have issues but do.”

        I believe that, from a practical, non-theoretical, non-philosophical, non-political ideology, common sense perspective, drug addicts and alcoholics are bad news. By definition, drug addicts and alcoholics are toxic people.

        I would strongly urge AA women and girls to AVOID dating drug addicts and/or alcoholics. And to exclude drug addicts and alcoholics from their dating pool.

        Whether or not they are (or claim to be) working a 12-step program.

        All of which is simply common sense. Drug addicts and alcoholics are bad news. Why would any sensible woman include drug addicts and/or alcoholics in her dating pool when there are so many healthy quality men in the world—men who don’t have substance dependency issues?

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        • neurochick
          Nov 15, 2014 @ 19:57:49

          But what happens if the woman herself is in a 12 step program?

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        • neurochick
          Nov 15, 2014 @ 20:13:41

          Practically, what you say makes a lot of sense. But, what if the woman is in a 12 step program?

          What if a woman meets a healthy, quality man who changes drastically when life happens, I know people who completely changed due to a death in the family; I also people who suffered mental issues after events like 9/11 or hurricane Katrina.

          A therapist friend, years ago was going to adopt a child with his wife. The agency asked them what the most difficult thing they had been through as a couple. I think that was a good question.

          For me, a quality man is someone who isn’t afraid to ask for help, isn’t afraid to know that sometimes you need help, professional help and I don’t mean from the AA church either.

          I also know women in their forties and fifties who married men they thought were sane, but became heavy drinkers due to a job loss or death of a parent.

          Truth be told though, if any woman goes out on a date with a man who gets so drunk they black out…run the other way. Whether the woman is in a 12 step program or not.

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          • Khadija Nassif
            Nov 15, 2014 @ 21:22:46

            Neurochick,

            Let me preface my reply by saying that the questions I’m about to ask are sincere and NOT an attack on you. I’m sincerely trying to understand the thought process behind your questions and concerns.

            You said, “Practically, what you say makes a lot of sense. But, what if the woman is in a 12 step program?”

            First to address the surface level of your question: What concern of is any of THAT to heterosexual BW who are looking to maximize their odds of marrying a quality man?

            Issues related to somebody dating a female drug addict or female alcoholic are concerns for lesbians and straight men. Why is this a point of concern for you? And why would you raise this in the context of THIS conversation which is not about successful life and dating strategies for lesbians or men?

            I originally was going to give a long-winded reply explaining the common sense realities of why any sensible woman should exclude drug addicts and alcoholics from their dating pool.

            But then I re-read the above-quoted statement and saw that you already know better. Which leads me to believe that your REAL objection/issue/concern is with the very concept of BW having ANY sort of a standard when it comes to screening out men.

            Because, really now . . . no sane (much less sensible) adult could have any legitimate objection to the idea of anybody excluding drug addicts and alcoholics from their dating pool. No responsible parent who loves their child would encourage them to date or marry a drug addict or alcoholic. No loyal friend would encourage their friend to date or marry a drug addict.

            It’s interesting. This same type of question came up during a post an my first blog titled “Let’s Get Serious About Vetting Men, Part 1: Do You Really Want A Fatherless Man To Be The Father Of YOUR Children?”
            https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=1752646546511186140&postID=3208438658742348079

            Those types of questions sound like fear-based & lack of self-regard-based comments. What it sounds like is “I’m afraid to have standards because I’m afraid that the man will apply standards to ME.”

            There’s an entrenched behavior pattern of AA women being too afraid to have standards when it comes to the men in their dating pool. There’s also an entrenched behavior pattern of BW trying to discourage other BW from having any standards when it comes to men.

            So many fearful readers asked those sorts of questions that I did a follow-up post titled “Let’s Get Serious About Vetting Men, Part 2: The Deficits Created By Fatherlessness Are NOT “Equal” Between The Genders.”

            The hour is late for AA women, so I’m going to ask some blunt questions. Because what I see happening that is that too many AA women are taking their same old self-destructive Be Kind To Predators, Parasites & Other Toxic BM indoctrination into their interactions with nonblack men. Which is why a disturbing percentage of those AA women who have started to date out are becoming “Swirl Baby Mamas.”

            Neurochick, why is the idea of BW having standards problematic? Why would a man seemingly have to be falling down drunk/blackout drunk on a date before you would advise a woman to steer clear of him and exclude him from her dating pool? Now, I could be misinterpreting what you’re saying, but that’s how your comment sounds to me.

            Why would you encourage any woman to get involved/stay involved with a drug addict or alcoholic? I don’t care about alcoholics’ and drug addicts’ sob stories. They all have sob stories. Every addict and alcoholic I’ve encountered (and I had many of them as clients when I was still doing criminal defense) had a sob story to rationalize/justify their substance abuse issues. I don’t care about that—there are plenty of folks who have suffered through the exact same types of tragedies and stayed sober. I don’t care about that mess because I want AA women to win, prosper and thrive. I want the best for AA women and girls.

            My goal is to encourage BW to seek out life-enhancing people and places. Not to encourage BW to hang around drug addicts and alcoholics—who by definition, are toxic individuals who detract from the quality of life of anybody who’s involved with them.

            I want AA women and AA girls to win, prosper and thrive.

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            • Evia
              Nov 16, 2014 @ 05:19:38

              Part 1
              Khadija, this never-ending quest to find excuses and explanations to avoid purging those who are damaged beyond repair among AAs stems from one of those “chips” that’s embedded inside another chip inside typical AA women because, as you know, I liken the programming that the typical AAbw has received to an intricately-coded computer program with a labyrinth of loops, routines, subroutines, etc. This is why there is usually a prevalent part of the AAbw’s mindset/psyche/program that urges her to ALWAYS find a way to forgive, justify, obfuscate, or stretch/distort herself to the max to overlook and excuse all sorts of malfunctions, dysfunctions, and glaring deficits in BLACK men. And now this is spreading to the way she views nonblack men. Yes, I’ve been hearing from bw who are allowing themselves to be used and abused by DBR wm and other non-AA men. So many AAbw need to be deprogrammed first and they then need therapy. But in order for the program to work well, the programmed person has to have no idea they’ve been programmed and to therefore think that what they say is making total sense and normal. LOL!

              Naturally, the typical AA woman doesn’t realize how “successfully” she’s been programmed to do the bidding of others who don’t give a blip about her.

              I’m still feeling the aftershock of a recent experience I had where I participated on a panel with some fairly prominent AA women and men. The purpose of the panel was to get down to the nitty gritty of “what’s gone wrong” in the AA male & female relationship. When I received an invitation from a noted bw to participate, I had initially opted to not participate because I stressed to her that my articles focus on interracial/intercultural relationships for bw, but then she asked me to please reconsider because she said she agreed that AAbw need to look outside the group for mates and she promised me that I would not be censored. I emphasized to her upfront that the other panelists were NOT going to like my views and that they would become angry/enraged. LOL She said, “So be it.” So I did participate.

              Call me dense, but in actuality, I really don’t understand AT ALL why anyone could be confused about ANY aspect of “what’s gone wrong,” between AA men and women. DUH! So I mainly participated because I wanted to PERSONALLY find out from these prominent, supposedly well-aware AA folks what it is that they don’t understand about this. After all, I needed to derive some sort of benefit from participating. LOL!

              Well, naturally the usual excuses and explanations were offered by the other panelists for “what’s gone wrong.” Drugs, feminism, babymamahood, de evil white folks, bw expecting too much from bm, and yadda, yadda. What they said made me dizzy (lol) and it was scary too because some of these folks are very well-exposed nationally and fairly influential. I sat there wondering: “Geez, are these the best minds we have? If so, we are closer to the edge of the cliff than even I anticipated.” When it was my turn, I pointed out that the bulk of AAs are in a cesspool because we lack uplifting, savvy/effective LEADERSHIP (that is supposed to come from men.) I didn’t even mention the word “culture” because even if we had an averagely well-functioning culture, we’d still need uplifting, savvy/shrewd EFFECTIVE leadership. For ex., many Africans on the continent have a strong culture that they practice, but they lack an uplifting savvy EFFECTIVE leaders.

              At first, they couldn’t quite wrap their brain around “lack of effective leadership,” (from the men) as the biggest problem but I kept beating that drum and I used as an analogy the parents who are supposed to be leaders in the home. If the parents are dysfunctional, then the overwhelming most of the children can be counted on to go astray.

              But in part 2, I’ll talk about where I got into real deep doo-doo and that connects with your response here.

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              • Evia
                Nov 16, 2014 @ 06:10:27

                Part 2 -(Hope I’m putting this in the right place.)

                Where I ran into the deepest doo-doo on the panel is when I pointed out that AA women should totally and completely avoid mating with or even socially mingling with EX-CONS. I cited the recent dismay I felt to find out that a prominent, ivy-league educated AAbw in NYC was discovered to be bedding down with an ex-con. Her “boo” had killed someone and did time for that, but then years later also tried to run down a state trooper (attempted murder) who was pursuing him for drug possession.

                Well, the fangs, claws, teeth, and nails came out at me then!! LOL!!

                One of the bw on the panel launched the “well,people make mistakes sometimes” grenade at me, as she pointed out that we ALL make mistakes in life and we can’t hold mistakes against a man that he made in the past. LOL!! She kept hammering at that, so I asked her whether she was talking about ex-cons who had done time for not paying child support or their parking tickets, etc. or whether she was talking about the cases like the one I mentioned. She said she meant those who sold drugs and had committed acts of violence in connection with the drug trade.

                I told her that drug dealers should be completely and totally OFF any sane bw’s dating or social mingling list and not on her mind or in her social world AT ALL, She and others on the panel became highly agitated with me. Lol. I went on to remind them that drug dealers sell POISON to hundreds of thousands of young black preteens and teenagers and pull them into a poison pit that most of them never escape and that I can NEVER forgive or ever find any excuse for anyone who sells POISON to unsuspecting young black children. We know that the typical “customer” of the average black drug dealer is a black person–NOT someone from the Fiji Islands.

                Well, I was accused then of being an “elitest” and one of the bm on the panel then said I must have “been really hurt by a black man” to have the views I have. LOL! I told him that he could hire the very best investigators to turn over every aspect of my life and no one would find where ANY man has ever hurt me or done me wrong. I pointed out that I have always had very good relationships with any man I’ve mingled with romantically. Well, they were stumped after that because they couldn’t figure out how any AA woman could possibly have my views. LOL!

                I wasn’t surprised by any of this. There is a clear reason to me why so many AAbw are unloved, unsupported, unpartnered, carrying an unhealthy amount of weight, allows herself to mule and mammy up for others, too often angry, and largely penniless. They’ve been PROGRAMMED to think magically and to never see the program or the reality of their lives.

                And another thing is that it’s been discovered (books have been written about this) that a disproportionate number of AAbm ministers who are the pastors–at these numerous churches springing up that so many bw attend–are ex-cons who had their “come to Jesus” moment while they were sitting in prison cells. Yeah, I DO think that happened with some of them, but some of them are just straight up con artists, and we know this because it doesn’t take them long to begin to prey on their largely black women congregations in various ways. This is one of the easiest ways these days for an unskilled, unemployed smooth-talking bm to make a good living and get the fringe benefit of a never-ending supply of willing sexual partners who believe that sleeping with him will pave their way to glory in the next life.

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              • Khadija Nassif
                Nov 16, 2014 @ 09:22:56

                Evia,

                Guurl, you really stepped into the lion’s den with that panel—LOL!

                I’m not surprised to see or hear folks at these endless “Black talking heads panels” repeating the same, played-out, Already Proven To Have Failed slogans and ideologies. After all, I still sometimes read the blog Black Agenda Report which is firmly entrenched in obsolete 1960s rhetoric and ideology. {chuckling}

                I step into the same “deep doo-doo” that you did with that panel whenever I tell other AA Muslims that we need to STOP preaching to convicts and start preaching to normal, healthy and wholesome people. Because the examples of the Disproportionately Filled With Ex-Cons AA Slave Mosque proves that you can’t build anything of any value on a foundation of ex-cons.

                The same applies to what we’re talking about here. You can’t build anything of any value on a foundation of dysfunctional individuals. In every social context, anybody who wants to thrive will purge dysfunctional people from their circle. Full stop. Period.

                Anyhoo, I’m not surprised to hear the talking head usual suspects repeat the same failed mantras the AA misleadership class has been talking since the 60s. Many (if not most) of the BM on such panels are users, exploiters and predators themselves. So, most of the BM talking heads have no interest in anything changing because they enjoy the status quo situation. Most of the BW who speak at such panels are brainwashed mammy mules and/or Sista Soldiers.

                Which is quite interesting when one thinks about it. The same AAs who can’t/don’t/won’t comprehend the idea of vetting/screening BM sure know how to carefully screen/vet BW speakers to make sure they screen OUT BW speakers who might not speak the BM Should Never Be Held Accountable For Their Actions party line—LOL! The fact that you were even invited onto that type of panel was a fluke that rarely happens.

                But I’m always dismayed to see women who’ve been reading BWE blogs for years engaging in this sort of “programmed chip”-based magical thinking. Which confirms that a lot of folks are reading BWE blogs for entertainment only and are not internalizing any of the core common sense values that various BWE/Common Sense bloggers have talked about for years. Which is their choice. God believes in free will and so do I.

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                • neurochick
                  Nov 16, 2014 @ 13:59:05

                  @Evia: Responding to your part two.

                  One of the things I have to remember,(sometimes I do forget) and something those people on that panel need to understand, and might not want to understand is the reason AABW have to vet, have to not date convicts, ex or otherwise, or dysfunctional people, is because AABW are in a different situation than most women of other ethnic groups. Men of other ethnic groups respect and protect their women, not 100%, but most of the time. In the BC in the USA, it’s not that way.

                  I remember reading about Kasandra Perkins, who was brutally murdered by her boyfriend, an NFL player and I heard people, BW say things like, “what did SHE do to provoke him.” I was like, “WTF, no one deserves to be brutally murdered, period, end of story.” That’s why AABW have to vet, have to not date dysfunction; because the BC doesn’t respect or protect us. If we date an ex-con and he beats us up or kills us, the BC says it’s our fault.

                  So I have to remember that is why we BW need to keep it simple, dis the dysfunction, period.

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                  • Evia
                    Nov 16, 2014 @ 18:48:26

                    @Neurochick, re

                    AABW have to vet, have to not date convicts, ex or otherwise, or dysfunctional people, is because AABW are in a different situation than most women of other ethnic groups. Men of other ethnic groups respect and protect their women, not 100%, but most of the time. In the BC in the USA, it’s not that way.

                    I remember reading about Kasandra Perkins, who was brutally murdered by her boyfriend, an NFL player and I heard people, BW say things like, “what did SHE do to provoke him.” I was like, “WTF, no one deserves to be brutally murdered, period, end of story.” That’s why AABW have to vet, have to not date dysfunction; because the BC doesn’t respect or protect us. If we date an ex-con and he beats us up or kills us, the BC says it’s our fault.

                    TOTALLY forget about what other folks might say or do or not do. Common sense dictates that an AAbw should not date or mingle with ex-cons for about 5,001 reasons that all relate to the fact that in the overwhelming most of cases (like 99.999% of the time), there is NO generally positive outcomes for her in the short or long term when she mingles with this type of man. Instead, she will experience quite the opposite. She will go from bad to worse in the vast majority of cases.

                    I just assumed that we ALL understood why an AAbw with her head on straight or has any common sense wouldn’t date a man whose an ex-con. But maybe someone needs to actually start listing the reasons in plain language (lol) why an AAbw should socially separate herself totally and completely ASAP from the ex-cons and similar type men who she encounters or those she’s likely to encounter. And let’s be real: AAbw don’t encounter ex-cons of the likes of Bernie Madoff

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                    • neurochick
                      Nov 17, 2014 @ 06:28:30

                      @Evia:
                      I just assumed that we ALL understood why an AAbw with her head on straight or has any common sense wouldn’t date a man whose an ex-con. But maybe someone needs to actually start listing the reasons in plain language (lol) why an AAbw should socially separate herself totally and completely ASAP from the ex-cons and similar type men who she encounters or those she’s likely to encounter. And let’s be real: AAbw don’t encounter ex-cons of the likes of Bernie Madoff.

                      Hah, never assume. A BW came into my office and mentioned that she was writing some guy in prison and I said, “you know why they call them “cons” right?” Crickets. I mean look at Rachel Noerdlinger. Common sense isn’t common.

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                • Evia
                  Nov 16, 2014 @ 18:10:53

                  Khadija, re

                  But I’m always dismayed to see women who’ve been reading BWE blogs for years engaging in this sort of “programmed chip”-based magical thinking. Which confirms that a lot of folks are reading BWE blogs for entertainment only and are not internalizing any of the core common sense values that various BWE/Common Sense bloggers have talked about for years.

                  I hate to use a cliche for this, but a lot about this falls under: “You can’t teach an old dog new tricks.” “Old” in this case is not a matter of chronological age. In this case, it means a person whose mindset has been molded into a shape and hardened like steel to the extent that they cannot be remolded or reshaped-even if their life depends on it, and in this case–for many AAbw–it does.

                  And I agree about the “entertainment” readers. I’ve also come to the conclusion that some BWE readers and commenters are running a con job on some of the rest of us. LOL. They are reading, commenting, and cosigning BWEology as a diversion or escape. It’s also much safer commenting around us because they won’t be attacked or called out of their names. They know they’ll be treated respectfully, but after they finish reading and talking about how some of the others who don’t “get it,” they go on with their largely dysfunctional minglings and unfulfilled lives.

                  Also, I think some bw readers do want to “get it,” but much of what we discuss is SO far removed from anything they’ve ever experienced or observed until it may as well be something on another planet. And it actually is. The only place they encounter any of this is in cyberspace.

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                  • Neecy
                    Nov 17, 2014 @ 20:31:04

                    Perfectly stated Evia.

                    But time is coming where BW will have to make some choices on which side they choose to be on. The dysfuncitonal side or the progressive side.

                    That is why I am moving away from the hand holding approach. Because it won’t really help a lot of BW in the long run.

                    I think BW need some tough love to snap them out of the matrix at this point.

                    But that’s just IMO.

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            • neurochick
              Nov 16, 2014 @ 13:05:53

              @Khadija: I did not make myself clear regarding drunks.

              When I mentioned blackout drunks, I should have explained this. Decades ago, a co-worker a BW went out with a WM that she liked. He got so drunk that she had to take him home and put him to bed, she said she was in love with him; I said I think he might have a problem; she said I was just jealous and that was that. Years later, she told me that he was an alcoholic, I said nothing (inside I said, “told you so.”).

              As far as standards, I will not date a man who smokes or drinks, since I do neither, why should you?

              When I first read you post about fatherless men, I did not agree; but later I thought about it. If you date and marry a man who did not have a mother and a father, he might not know how to “be a couple.”

              There’s a commercial where a woman comes home, finds her husband sleeping on the sofa playing Xbox or something and instead of talking to said husband about it, proceeds to take his Xbox outside and run over it. That is not how adults act, that’s not how adults from healthy family situations act; that is also why so many BW get killed by husbands or boyfriends. When someone does something you don’t like, you sit down, calmly, and talk about it, you don’t react, you don’t get physical.

              I guess I didn’t understand what you were conveying.

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    • Neecy
      Nov 17, 2014 @ 16:52:27

      Khadija,

      You will get no argument from me whatsoever that *IN GENERAL* the Black church is full of dysfunction. No pushback whatsoever. This is why I rarely speak of church in my posts even though I am a regular attendee of church. I get it. BW are tired of the BS. But completely leaving church is not the answer for EVERY BW – including BW like me. I still manage to have a balance despite going to church and many other BW could as well if they realized their power to remove themselves from atypical dysfunctional Black churches.

      However, I grew up in the Black church. I have seen the dysfunction in its glory. But because I still believe in the power of a good church and word as a Christian, I have chosen to not throw the baby out with the bathwater. And instead, once I became AN ADULT who was able to utilize my free will – I had to sit down and ask myself how can I continue to go to church and get my needs and AVOID the entire BS that typically comes with the Black church.

      And it took me bouncing around to different churches before I found a church that i feel aligns with my ideals and goals as a woman and Black woman.

      It’s not hard. I cannot get with BW sitting around talking about how a CHURCH kept her single and childless. That is utter nonsense to me and if any BW were to repeat that outside of the confines of a safe community of other BW, others would see her as a damn fool. The first thing a sane adult would ask themselves AND HER is – “UH how hard is it for you to see that nothing falls into your lap that you have to go out and seek it on your own”. That is the first thing that comes to my mind.

      I am sensitive however to the fact that I understand a lot of Black women are indoctrinated by the Black church from childhood, so I can see how this can happen. But enough already. BW have eyes and do not live in a vacuum. We can clearly see what works for others and apply that to our own lives and instead we choose not to use the god given brain we have and expect others to do our dirty work.

      One thing you always hear people say about BW and church is BW are the ones to keep it going. Well if this is true, then that says to me BW have power and have once again chose to not use it to her advantage. Based on the FACT that BW keep this church going, the Black church should be a place where a BW can go and get all her needs met. If BW are tired of the way the Back church is run, Black women have the power to CHANGE IT because BW are the only ones supporting it!

      Do you think the Black church is going to change if it can continue the way it is without pushback from its CONSUMERS and supporters (i.e Black women)?

      How foolish do BW look complaining about an entity that they fully keep in business??? Its insanity!

      The reason why a lot of American businesses straighten up their act when their consumers start complaining about the company, its messaging etc., is because these businesses realize their consumers can put them out of business. These consumers are aware of their POWER. I don’t care if a company is a billion dollar business. If it is that way because of consumers, then it’s the consumers who have the power and the company works for the consumers.

      So let’s compare that to BW and the Black church. Black women are the MAIN and ONLY consumers and supporters of this business and entity and still can’t seem to make it work in her favor? What does that say about BW?

      I just can’t with the excuses about the Black church anymore. The Black church is and will continue to be the way it is because BLACK WOMEN have not demanded better.

      How long can an adult be indoctrinated with NONSENSE before they realize it, and begin to open their eyes and look around them and recognize right from wrong and do something about it??

      Black women can stop going to church, ditch their religion and so forth. I choose and many other BW choose not to do this. So we have come up with a plan to only be in attendance of churches that foster a much healthier non dysfunctional environment. My pastor TELLS his church that Church is the place where A LOT of BROKEN people, con artists, fakes and phonies come. He says not everyone in church is RIGHT. And he is correct! Thinking that church is a place full of people who are whole is FOOLISH.

      Anyway, I’m not sure that BW who still wish to be in a place of worship will help BW in the long run because the problem still remains: if BW cannot change and utilize their power to change an entity they are in full control of, how will they manage in other areas of their lives without the church?

      I am confident that BW will find another entity to support and allow to exploit them because BW refuse to acknowledge the power they have to CHANGE these entities they support and keep alive and in business. As long as we keep saying the Black church is holding the black women down, we are basically admitting Back women are lames or women with the mental and brain capacity of children who cannot seem to do anything for themselves.

      And that does not help the BW’s cause at all.

      Once we start saying YOU ARE IN CONTROL of what you think ad support, more BW will realize the power they have and avoid making dumb and non-productive decisions for their lives.

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  12. Khadija Nassif
    Nov 09, 2014 @ 19:15:34

    Part 2 (last)

    When these different outcomes are pointed out, those who want to give a pass to the mostly dysfunctional (just look at the “fruit” they bear) AA slave houses of worship argue that it’s not the church’s job to find a husband for their (mostly) female membership. Well, I beg to differ. Religious clergy hold themselves out as sources of guidance for their parishioners. Part of that guidance should be guiding their flock toward the establishment of healthy, wholesome families.

    Just because the AA church consistently FAILS at that task does not remove that task from their duties.

    As far as I can tell, all 3 Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) talk about believing families passing the torch of their particular faith traditions down through the generations. Well, it’s almost impossible to do that when you don’t form stable families—which is what happens through marriage.

    There’s a HUGE difference between what White American Christians are talking about and what AA slave Christians are talking about. While many AA Christians are saying that it’s not the Black church’s responsibility to help its BW members secure marriage, White Christians are speaking other messages.

    While AABW Christians are busy churning out books, movies and doctrines like “Soulmate” http://www.soulmatefilm.com/ to help Christian AA women cope with perpetual singleness, White American Christians are writing books like “The Promise of Jonadab: Building a Christian Family Legacy in a Time of Cultural Decline.” http://tinyurl.com/ngtav67

    Non-AAs in the U.S. are much more likely to have legacies (of all sorts–material and religious) to pass down because they have families created by marriage while the majority of AA babies are born as bastard children. White Christians are talking about building Christian legacies while AA Christians are talking about . . . . what exactly? It’s hard to talk about anything when a group is in crisis largely due to the lack of stable families created by marriage. And due to the lack of that group’s children being raised in the increased safety, security and stability of families created by marriage.

    [I will note that AA slave Muslims have the opposite problem in terms of marriage. There’s plenty of marriage available to AABW Muslims who go to AA Black mosques. The problem is that AABW Muslims are being steered toward marrying jailhouse Muslim ex-convict BM. Which has a whole other set of extremely ugly problems associated with it, including the practice of “orthodox” Muslim BM marrying and then divorcing a series of women in a row. With religious ceremony-only “marriages” only lasting for a few days or a week. Lasting just long enough for the ex-con Muslim BM to have sex with one wife, divorce her, then find a new gullible woman to marry. Rinse. Repeat.]

    YES, a woman has to be pretty gullible and/or indoctrinated to support and remain within institutions that exploit her and her daughters. And, yes, women have the ability to leave the AA Slave houses of worship. [Although, if one is ever confused enough to join certain AA slave cults, such as the Black Hebrew Israelites and some fanatical AA Muslim sects, one might be risking one’s life to quit past a certain point.]

    My point is that there are plenty of BM users, exploiters, abusers, and outright monsters freely running loose in AA Slave houses of worship. Regardless of how stupid, gullible, weak-minded their BW victims are, these Ranging From Incompetent To Corrupt negro male preachers should be held accountable for the bad advice they give their female parishioners; and the bad outcomes that are typically caused by listening to the misguidance they dish out. Every other type of malpractice is called out. Why not spiritual malpractice?

    At minimum, we should be able to “call a spade a spade” and speak the truth about the widespread spiritual malpractice that goes on in AA houses of worship. Spiritual malpractice that serves to diminish [gullible] BW members’ quality of life.

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    • Neecy
      Nov 17, 2014 @ 17:05:59

      Once again I agree.

      But like i said, BW need to understand something. NO ONE, NO ENTITY, NO PERSON who benefits from her indoctrinatoin on thier behalf is going to TELL BW the right thing to do, usher BW into the right things. It is BW who need to open thier eyes ans use thier brains to start questoining the OBVIOUS.

      And like i said, leaving the church completely is NOT an option for a lot of BW. For those BW (like myself) its about finding balance and personally avoiding dysfunction by recognizing it and leaving it.

      I just have a hard time feeling sorry for BW when BW are the main consumers and supporters of the Black chrstian church. This is a place where BM are in low numbers. So we cannot blame them.

      If BW cannot take control of the one thing they CONTROL and make it work for BW, then how does that speak to the potental BW have in conquering other things in the world and society that ar eworking against her?

      Do you think White women would be in control of something that could possibly be a place of upliftent for thier daughters and women and NOT utilize that power to make it work for themelves as women? HECK NO!

      Indoctrination is real with BW. But unfortunatley, the only people who can break that indoctrination are BW. I agree that somethings BW need to just completely LEAVE ALONE. But other things may require BW to see thier power and utilize it to work in their favor. BW are the ONLY and main consumers of the Black chucrh. If the Black church is working against BW (the only and main consumers and supporters keeping it in business), the the jokes on BLACK WOMEN – once again.

      That’s just my opinion.

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  13. Neecy
    Nov 09, 2014 @ 23:44:03

    hey everyone! Long busy weekend. Will be back to reply to commets tommorow morning!!!

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  14. Rae
    Nov 10, 2014 @ 14:35:15

    On another note, I must be the only young black woman that did not grow up religious. Reading all of this makes me thankful.

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  15. gettingmylifefindingmylove
    Nov 12, 2014 @ 08:39:40

    WordPress erased my reply so Im going to keep it short.
    Some women are actually emotional vampires. They will blame everybody but themselves. I have several relatives like this. It can be tiring mentally, physically, and spiritually. You can’t tell them anything but they know it all and have no problem telling what’s wrong with you. They turn everything around and make it about them. They know how to hype up and manipulate people’s emotions and have people blaming and getting mad at you.

    I also believe that some of the women who’ve been following bwe for years are “nothing but a black man” type but will not admit it. Some are there not to be empowered but to be entertained, some are seeking attention, some are there because misery loves company, some to lie and derail bw from moving forward. Some of the reactions to Elegant’s suggestion made me shake my head.

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    • gettingmylifefindingmylove
      Nov 12, 2014 @ 08:47:05

      Reply

      • Neecy
        Nov 17, 2014 @ 17:26:59

        OH GOD!

        I love those links!

        So true about the emotional vampire thing. While I don’t believe BW corner the market on this (in fact a lot of White women exhibit these behaviors – I have a Non black friend like this and I had to tell her I can’t because its draining. I offered her the number of my therapist and that is where she goes now when she needs a release). That may sound cold, but sorry BW are not here to mammy others through thier problems when we and I have my own problems to work through.

        However, the difference is there will always be someone there to wipe a WW’s tears, massage her back and even offer her a way out. There aint no one doing that or willing to do that for BW. Which means when a BW is an emotional vampire, people have the opposite reaction they would of a WW. They will push her further away and become annoyed. And this is not somehting that BW can afford.

        This is not to say BW should not be human and not have any issues, emotions etc. What I am saying is, BW have to be a step ahead and figure out how to take control of her own issues and problems by first starting with the ROOT of why she is where she is. That is why i recommend therapy for a lot of BW because that is the one safe place where a BW can get help to get back on track without being judged and pushed away. A place where a professional is TAUGHT how to help people deal with their issues. BW use thier friends, thier jobs and co workers and others who could care less as shoulders to cry on and it ALWAYS backfires!

        Usually when a BW is in a place of victimhood and being an emotoinal vampire its because she has ALLOWED herself to be the protective shield for someone else and putting herself and life int he line of fire which has resulted in bad consquences for her. Also, that usually means that she is left in the cold when she needed help because she was so busy attending to others needs instead of her own.

        BW have a serious issue with co dependency on BM, Black community and other unhealty things and people. The former facebook page of The Black woman think tank, did an excellent article on this where she posted a video of a psychologist talking about BW and co dependncey. This co dependency LEADS to being an emotional vampire because that energy has to go somewhere.

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    • Neecy
      Nov 17, 2014 @ 17:13:56

      @ GETTINGMYLIFE

      You said:I also believe that some of the women who’ve been following bwe for years are “nothing but a black man” type but will not admit it. Some are there not to be empowered but to be entertained, some are seeking attention, some are there because misery loves company, some to lie and derail bw from moving forward. Some of the reactions to Elegant’s suggestion made me shake my head.

      ME: AB SO LUT ELY!
      I did not happen to see that thread, but I can just imagine. There are a lot of BW who venture to BWE and other BW sites encouraging IR’s because its just a form of entertainment for them. They have not gotten over BM and that is why they continue to discuss them even on a board geared towards helping BW find and seek out IR’s. Its insane that any amount of time is spent on BM on a Interracial board for BW.

      I get every now and then you have to throw some things in about BM but to cotinually focus on them and be angry and bash says that deep down you still desire them.

      You know when you are no longer captive by Black men when you simply don’t care. You don’t hate them but you don’t feel love either. When a BW becomes apathetic to BM she is truly ready to enter into healthy IRs.

      Another thing I’m tired of is the talks of colorism. You rarely find colorism with men of other races. Yet the constant talk about how dark women are perceived by BLACK MEN is counter productive sine usually dating IR for BW voids out all that colorism nonsense.

      its like you either truly want to be free of the nonsense or YOU DON’T and you want to keep harping on it to wallow in your own pity.

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  16. Khadija Nassif
    Nov 12, 2014 @ 10:52:31

    gettingmylifefindingmylove,

    You said, “I also believe that some of the women who’ve been following bwe for years are “nothing but a black man” type but will not admit it. Some are there not to be empowered but to be entertained, some are seeking attention, some are there because misery loves company, some to lie and derail bw from moving forward. Some of the reactions to Elegant’s suggestion made me shake my head.”

    This is true. I believe there several interlocking things going on with that. Things that have been previously and repeatedly discussed by early BWE bloggers.

    First of all, Elegant’s suggestion isn’t anything new. Pioneer and other early BWE bloggers have been saying the same things for years. Here’s the link to a post from 4 years ago:

    —“So, in the spirit of the annual national Turn Off The TV Week, I’m asking you to tune out neutral, low-value, and no-value Black men this week. I don’t just mean the toxic or damaged Black men. I’m talking about tuning out ALL Black men who aren’t contributing something of value to your life. This includes the neutral Black men who aren’t doing anything against you, but they’re also not doing anything for you.

    . . . This week I’m asking you to tune-out the Black men who contribute nothing of value to your life:

    Don’t talk to noncontributing Black men this week. If you’re in a work or similar setting where it would create problems not to respond to a noncontributing Black male, keep your responses as brief as possible.

    If for some reason, you must (briefly) interact with a noncontributing Black man this week, don’t look into his eyes. Instead, look at a point near the top of his forehead. The eyes are a window into the soul. Looking into someone’s eyes draws you further into the interaction.

    Don’t read noncontributing Black men’s blogs this week.

    Don’t read news reports about noncontributing Black men this week.

    Don’t talk about the thoughts, views, or activities of noncontributing Black men this week.”—

    http://sojournerspassport.com/mission-update%E2%80%94the-first-national-tune-out-week/

    And, as came up during another post, there has been an ongoing concern about a segment of the reading audience that has been reading and commenting yet NOT internalizing the core BWE values being discussed and NOT following core BWE values. I talked about this 3.5 years ago:

    —“I’m concerned because from what I see at various BWE blogs, I can tell that most of the audience members have not internalized the core values that various BWE bloggers have been talking about for the past couple of years.

    Readers mouth the words and use the same terminology that BWE bloggers are using, but when something comes up, most of the readers demonstrate that they don’t understand what words like vetting, reciprocity, quality person, and so on mean. All they’ve done is learn a hip, new vocabulary to use as a cover story for the same tired, self-defeating thought and behavior patterns.”–

    http://sojournerspassport.com/an-emergency-warning-to-all-aspiring-sojourners/

    Others like Evia and Faith have talked about this over the years. Faith did a post 4.5 years ago titled “Pushback From The Partially Aware But Still Indoctrinated Black Woman”

    http://actsoffaithblog.com/pushback-from-the-partially-aware-but-still-indoctrinated-black-woman

    Finally, not all the spaces that claim to be about BWE are actually BWE spaces. Likewise, not all the BW who claim to support Black women’s empowerment are willing to move forward and move on from endlessly circling around oppressive people, places and things. One must use discernment.

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    • neurochick
      Nov 13, 2014 @ 05:18:31

      Oh Khadija, I’ve tuned out SBM (sorry black men) for years. I’m just too old to deal with their b.s. Just say hello and keep it moving.

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  17. Rae
    Nov 12, 2014 @ 14:04:28

    @khadija Nassif . I’ve been doing everything you wrote for years. I’ve felt an see the bullshit in the black community for yers. But I think it’s too late for So many black girls my age (I’m 19) are dead. They do not know anything about feminity or what it is to be a woman first. All they are concerned on I sighting whte hegemony. I remember you wrote that on the soujourners passport blog, and that was so ACCURATe . On every black women centered blog it’s about the needs, wants, and protection of black men. When you speak out against it you’re shut down. I’m done. There’s a blog on tumblr called (blackwomenconfessions) and most of it is from young black girls. Black women are sadly brainwashed into putting black men before them, mentally, physically, and spiritually . With the way the world (getting worst) black young women don’t Stand a chance. Again, thank you. I thanked you in the not your girl Friday blog!

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  18. HomesteadGlamourGurl
    Nov 19, 2014 @ 10:44:07

    Winners don’t ask for permission to be winners.–Jack Spirko

    http://myplaceinthesun.typepad.com/my_place_in_the_sun/2014/11/the-winning-plan.html

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