Respectability Politics – Should BW play that game?

I simply say – BW just live your lives. Be who you want to be and make sure it’s on your own terms and own terms only. Don’t worry about trying to please and impress those who have already made up in their minds that you are simply a gender and race no matter who you are as a person.

Sometimes no matter who you are, where you come from, your background, pedigree, economic status, style of dress doesn’t matter. You can be the most polished, well mannered, kind, intelligent BW walking and there will still be plenty of people who will still see you as nothing but “A BLACK WOMAN” and often times attribute you to nothing but a stereotype even when you do not act accordingly.

In fact, the more BW are far from a stereotype, the more they will try to make you into one or “remind you” of your place by projecting stereotypes upon you. So the real battle begins and ends with NOT the BW who represent the stereotypes, but rather the BW who don’t.

YOU are a TARGET for many because you make many people uncomfy when you are not acting according to the nasty stereotypes that benefit them and take away from your individual personhood as a woman.

There have been recent incidents that have clearly shown me and other BW who see the transparency of these people, that folks are getting a beeeeet uncomfortable with BW who don’t “stay in their place”.

Some recent examples have been: 

  • Elizabeth Lauten a communications director for a Republican in Tennessee, recently felt the need to write an cowardly disgusting “OPEN LETTER” to the teenage Obama girls who appeared in the public pardoning of a turkey their father did at the White house. The girls who were wearing typical casual teenage attire, were apparently doing something SO offensive to Miss Piggy Lauten who basically went all passive aggressive and lashed out on two innocent teenage Black girls when really the intended target of her vitriol was Pres. Obama and likely Michelle.
  • “Dear Sasha and Malia, I get you’re both in those awful teen years, but you’re a part of the First Family, try showing a little class. At least respect the part you play. Then again your mother and father don’t respect their positions very much, or the nation for that matter, so I’m guessing you’re coming up a little short in the ‘good role model’ department. Nevertheless, stretch yourself. Rise to the occasion. Act like being in the White House matters to you. Dress like you deserve respect, not a spot at a bar. And certainly don’t make faces during televised public events.”

  • A NY Times writer named Alessandra Stanley, felt the need to call Shonda Rhimes out based on her new show “How to get away with murder”. She insisted that Ms. Rhimes should title any autobiography she may write of herself as “How to get away with being an Angry BW” . This writer took issue with “yet another network series from her to showcase a powerful intimidating Black woman”. Of course the other show she was referring to was Scandal in which Olivia Pope plays a powerful role. 

When Shonda Rhimes writes her autobiography, it should be called “How to Get Away With Being an Angry Black Woman.”

On Thursday, Ms. Rhimes will introduce “How to Get Away With Murder,” yet another network series from her production company to showcase a powerful, intimidating black woman.

  • On opening night of the show “How to get away with murder” where Viola Davis plays a powerful attorney (in an interracial relationship) a tweeter for PEOPLE magazine needed to remind Viola Davis that she was still just that maid in “The Help” by saying:

image
So two teenage girls who are Black and daughters of the President of the United States, both wearing typical teenage clothing, was told to “show class” and stop dressing like they “were looking for a spot at the bar”. This from a woman who was arrested as a teen for shoplifting, and one who has pictures of her floating around IN A BAR with a beer bottle hanging out of her mouth hands free. LOL. Do you see what we are up against??

They are not afraid of the stereotypical BW. Many are afraid of any BW who is NOT stereotypical. Apparently even INNOCENT Black female children and teenagers are not exempt from being a target. The comment about SHonda Rhimes being angry, was just another pot shot to remind the world, that any BW who is showing courage has some sort of power and intelligence is an “ANGRY BW”.

This is to remind BW that doing anything more than shaking your ass in a rap video or being some uncouth loud mouth pig, means you are ANGRY if you have any kind of intelligence or power outside of using your body.

Then the people tweet, was yet another reminder of how UNCOMFY people get when they see a BW not acting as a mammy. The whole point of that tweet was to say that Viola is still that mammy/maid in the movie THE HELP, no matter what role she takes that is completely opposite.

This is why I often wonder why so many Black women jump on the bandwagon supporting these kinds of movies when these Maid and help movies that showcase us as nothing more than mammies and “the help”.

Is it any wonder why these movies do so well at the box office and not the ones where BW are attractive capable competition for Non-black women? THEY LOVE YOU as being a servant, mammy, asexual sidekick, overly sexualized jezebel and sassy sapphire!

That is the Black woman they are comfy with because she is UNDESIRABLE and represents a character/caricature as opposed to a real living breathing woman with potential, style, intelligence and someone they have to compete with in many areas.

My point is – people especially those who have more to lose by BW not fitting into undesirable stereotypes, will continue to remind BW of their “place” by constantly trying to remind us of the “stereotypes” we need to stick to promoting and to stay in our “box”.

They will try to be slick (like the examples I posted above) and even appear at times to attempt to be helping you. But the reality is, the more BW who step out of the lil box of horrors so many people like us to be in, the more the attacks on our personhood will come. And young Black teenage girls and children are apparently NOT exempt from this either.

When I have seen all of the trash thrown at Michelle Obama, over the years, it has become plainly clear to me, that to many it doesn’t matter how well you carry yourself, you will always be nothing but a stereotype to them.

RESPECTABILITY POLITICS – THE SLIPPERY SLOPE

I have to admit I was for a long time of the belief that BW could win this battle by playing the respectability politics game. I also have to admit I did not really learn of the term or know what it was until fairly recently (I know – don’t judge me LOL). But I realized that my thoughts on how BW should be to turn our image around was based in respectability politics, and now I am not so sure I agree with playing that game.

Once I learned and researched really what the meaning of RP was – I can understand why so many Blacks believed in it and believed that it would work. I get it. But, eh, I’m not so sure that it’s really about gaining respectability, because the more I think about it, the more I realize that people who simply stereotype others have already made up in their minds that you will never be “like them” and are different. If someone has respect for you, they see you FIRST as a person and individual – NOT a group.

And it has also dawned on me. It’s not necessarily that BW’s image has to change. It’s that people refuse to ACKNOWLEDGE the scores of decent, well mannered, intelligent, kind and fun loving BW that they see and know of on a daily basis.

It’s that people have taken one kind of BW and have felt comfortable in using that image as the whole of BW. That is because people do not view BW as whole beings and individuals. Our personhood lies solely in WHAT we are and not necessarily WHO we are.

So the issue really is not the stereotypical BW. Its BW who do not fit the stereotypes, just have to be more vocal and proactive about representing ourselves. Just like the stereotypical BW have (with help) been readily representing themselves and their ilk unapologetically.

The reality is, there are ghetto BW. Loud BW. Angry BW. Overly sexualized BW. And there are ALSO BW who are the anti-thesis of those BW. But the world choses to focus on the former. So is it BW who really need to change? Or is it the world just refusing to recognize and DULY acknowledge that BW are not a monolith and that we are humans with varying personalities and characters?

It’s the latter. And because it’s the latter, there is nothing more you can do other than continue to be yourself and live your life according to your own rules and guidelines. Because no matter WHAT, the world will still choose to try fit your round bottom into that square peg.

This is why it’s IMPORTANT for BW to travel abroad! Many have said how surprising it is to just be viewed, seen and treated as a WOMAN and not some stereotype like here in America. America’s history is STEEPED in marginalizing Black women. It’s time Black American women realize its THEY who have the problem and not you. If you do not fit those stereotypes, it’s not your job to try to change them.

White women and Non Black women are given the ability to be who they are without feeling the need to PROVE they are not like their more or less favorable counterparts. They don’t have to play the respectability politics game despite the scores of unfavorable characters of their gender and racial group. So why should BW be expected to do the same?

The difference is POWER. And the power to control your images. The power to go and be around people and places that you can flourish as the wonderful being that you are, and not where you constantly have to fight to prove you are “not like the others”.

The fact of the matter is. If a person or people will choose to believe things about you based on stereotypes of Black women, it doesn’t matter how well put together and polished you are. How kind and feminine you are. They will NEVER respect you as an individual or a Black woman.

Progressive BW need to understand something. YOU are not the stereotype. And you do not have an image problem. I have come to terms with the fact that BW have no more of an image problem than any other group. It’s simply that no one wants to give BW the ability to be living and breathing INDIVIDUALS who are not a monolith.

The real issue is, Non stereotypical BW have just been too silent publicly about who we are. And we have to learn to use our power to uplift OUR KIND and create the culture that we live by daily that others refuse to acknowledge exists.

Just like there is a culture of the “Angry BW’ “the over sexualized BW’ “the sassy BW” there is also a culture of “the girl next door Black girl” ”the kind BW””the feminine BW” “the fun loving BW” etc. The problem is we have been unwilling to work to formulate our own culture as non-stereotypical BW. We have allowed one kind of BW to represent the whole. We’ve been immersed and mixed in with our unfavorable sisters – and no other group of women has to carry that burden BUT BW.

I have made a vow this day forward to no longer hold the many BW who are living right, doing well and being decent moral beings, accountable for fixing the images of the opposite BW. We have the right like all other groups to be seen as individuals and not our group.

And anything I do moving forward will focus on uplifting and promoting the culture of the PROGRESSIVE BW vs. trying to play the game of respectability politics which is an already losing battle for those who never needed to play it in the first place.

YOUR THOUGHTS ON RESPECTABILITY POLITICS?

I’m curious. Please share your thoughts on Respectability Politics and whether it would benefit BW to play it. Since this is a new concept to me, I would like to hear from you all your feeling on it. Maybe I can learn something more either FOR or against it. I don’t want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, so if I am missing an important aspect of RP and why you feel it does or doen’t work, please freely post it in the comments.

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37 Comments (+add yours?)

  1. Brenda55
    Dec 05, 2014 @ 01:55:18

    Neecy you hit this out of the park. I am linking this on BB&W and hope it gets wide distribution throughout black women’s spaces. This is the truth.

    Like

    • Neecy
      Dec 05, 2014 @ 12:49:51

      Hey Brenda!!

      Thank you!! Im still trying to work throuh this conceot of Res. Pol. so we’ll see where this end up. LOL

      Like

  2. Tucilla Kelly
    Dec 05, 2014 @ 06:16:24

    I wasn’t familiar with respectability politics until I read this article. So I looked it up and I found that it originated with Evelyn Brooks Higginbotham as quoted in the paragraph below from http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/jowh/summary/v015/15.1harris.html. After reading this and other sources, I think, while well intentioned, RP wouldn’t work simply because people have to want to change; and no matter how much one tries to uplift those who are broken it’s their journey to take alone. I see merit in wanting a community to do better; but it shouldn’t rest on your shoulders. The conclusion I got from your article is that instead of fixing the damaged; focus on showcasing and uplifting the Progressive Black Woman. Which I agree with. What do you think about mentoring programs? Do you think they are futile attempts at trying to uplift young people? Or they work if those being mentored are receptive to the message? Thanks for writing this article!

    “In Righteous Discontent: The Women’s Movement in the Black Baptist Church, 1880-1920, Evelyn Brooks Higginbotham first coined the term “politics of respectability” to describe the work of the Women’s Convention of the Black Baptist Church during the Progressive Era. She specifically referred to African American’s promotion of temperance, cleanliness of person and property, thrift, polite manners, and sexual purity. The politics of respectability entailed “reform of individual behavior as a goal in itself and as a strategy for reform.” Respectability was part of “uplift politics,” and had two audiences: African Americans, who were encouraged to be respectable, and white people, who needed to be shown that African Americans could be respectable.”

    Like

    • Neecy
      Dec 05, 2014 @ 16:07:27

      TULLICIA SAID:
      n it’s their journey to take alone. I see merit in wanting a community to do better; but it shouldn’t rest on your shoulders. The conclusion I got from your article is that instead of fixing the damaged; focus on showcasing and uplifting the Progressive Black Woman. Which I agree with.

      THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!

      You seemed to have completely understood the point of my post and the take away.

      Thank you.

      I’m out and about now but would like to address your questions when I get home.

      Like

  3. DiraD
    Dec 05, 2014 @ 07:13:44

    You are so right! All we (BW) can do is strive to be the best we can be and not stress about how everyone else views us. No matter how graceful and poised we are, there will always be others who will see us as ghetto trash.

    Like

    • Neecy
      Dec 05, 2014 @ 12:53:49

      YES. And the time we spend complaining about our sisters who “are making it bad for us” could be the time we should be spending making it better for oursleves by doing what it takes to win our platform. Everyone has a right to repersent who they are. Those who sit and do nothing get trampled over. That;s what has happened to us Progressive BW.

      And BW in the media today are repsenting themsleves and could care less about those of us who are not on their page.
      And that is the same tactic we need to use and take in getting ahead.

      But let us not forget, the images of BW we say today are not DRIVEN by those BW. They do not have that much power to control adn truly promote what society gets to soley see of BW. They are just doing them and the media is there to help them do that PUBLICLY.

      The bad perceptions of BW are driven by the media and other people whose intent is to keep the perceptions and images of BW in ONE place.

      Like

  4. jazzyfae45
    Dec 05, 2014 @ 10:32:38

    I also have come to the conclusion that no matter how a black woman acts there are people out there that will STILL see us as walking talking stereotypes. In my 23 years on this Earth I have noticed I made many people uncomfortable with my mere presence. I’m not saying this to be conceited but it is what it is. I’ve had people try and trick me into acting like the “angry BW”. I’ve had people try to dig into my sexual past to see if I’m a “jezebel” smh yea I can go and on. You stated it perfectly though. Society at large is soooo comfortable with black women that fit the stereotypes that when black women don’t they hate it. Simple as that. How can we be used as the scapegoats of society if we don’t fit the stereotypes? Who will women of other races compare themselves to feel better about themselves and make them look better? So yes I get it 100%. It’s not that people can’t find black women that are classy, accomplished, intelligent, sweet, and so on. People just don’t WANT to see black girls/women that are those things. For a variety of reasons.

    So I believe progressive black women need to throw respectability politics out the window and do what is best for ourselves. Because let’s face it respectable politics gets us nowhere but running around in one big circle. Which is exactly what society wants. They don’t want us to move forward and progress. I also like you said about needing to take a page put of the “stereotypical black women’s ” book and put our own images out there and not settle for the disrespect. I see it happening more and more we just need to keep pushing. I have faith that we can do it.

    Like

    • Neecy
      Dec 05, 2014 @ 12:59:40

      THANK YOU JAZZY! Couldn’t have said it better myself.

      I have come to realize that truly the BW we see today in the media are just doing what they know. They are being themselves. That is not really the problem.

      The problem is BW who fit the opposite profiles of what we see, have not done ANYTHING to promote who we are to BAlanCE (not change) but balance out the images.

      We have to accept a lot of BW are the way they are because of their circumstances and inability to break the chains of indosctrination. At some point you just gotta let them be abd focus on yourself and helping others like you get in a position to have our culture as women recognized as the culture of other BW are being recognized.

      The other problem is unlike Progressive BW, other BW have had HELP. The media, BM, the Blk Community and Non Black women have used its power to keep these BW’s images as the sole face of Black womanhood. And we all know why – to keep BW out of the game. And this has been doine since the beginning of time and will not stop.

      So its imperative that we see this for what it is, stop trying to play the respectability politics GAME and simply do what it takes to foster and promote our culture as progressive BW.

      This is no longer about “chnaging” certain BW for me anymore. Its about us just DOING and understanding the tactics that are used aainst us, to keep us from DOING.

      Like

      • jazzyfae45
        Dec 05, 2014 @ 16:07:38

        Here here!!!! I’m over trying extra hard or going the extra mile to prove to people that I’m a individual human being. Whether it’s family, work, romance, friendships, or whatever. As a young black woman I have enough on my plate as it is in this racist society. If I need to try THAT hard to “prove” anything then they don’t need me or want me around in the first place. I accept it and move on with my life. I need to put that extra energy into bettering myself, not trying to convince a bunch of people that don’t like me or see me as human to like me or see me as human.

        Like

  5. Evia
    Dec 05, 2014 @ 10:48:45

    Part 1
    Neecy, someone just sent me this response (posted in Part 2) to your post. I TOTALLY agree with it and I’ve said this many times before. Grave-digging BLACK women are AABW and similar bw’s WORST enemies these days. It is NOT other women. NOBODY can dig a grave for a bw like another bw. It is also SOME other bw who guard and defend bm while those men dig graves for bw. And I’m going to just say this. Since when have SOME bw become so DUMB as to expect for the masses of ww or women of any other group to “BE KIND TO BW” and let us have our fair share of quality men or a wonderful image in the media, choice movie Tv/roles, magazine covers, etc. when ALL women are in fierce competition for the highest quality CQLL men and other resources out there and we should all know that those men or other best quality resources are not falling from trees.

    AAbw in particular MUST face who the enemies are: their in-house enemies, and stop being NAIVE girls and so cowardly. Stop fixating on what other folks think about us.Think about what WE think about us and do to each other and don’t do FOR each other. Again; It is mostly certain BLACK WOMEN who are out on Front Street 24-7 digging bw’s graves and as I said, NO ONE can dig a bw’s grave for another bw like a bw can.

    But SOME of you bw reading this don’t want to deal with other bw; y’all want to go after ww and Aw or Martian women. LOL Just look at all of the back azzward, grave-digging cr@p that so many bw spout on some of these prominent so-called bw’s sites and in other media venues!!

    Here’s my RX for AAbw: AAbw need to make FRIENDS with the most powerful men on the planet” WHITE MEN (or at least not be hell-bent on making enemies of them). You don’t have to LIKE doing this; you just have to DO IT (thanks, Neecy) just like you don’t have to like the medicine that will save your life. You just have to take it. And you WILL like it–no, you will LOVE it, after you start feeling a lot better or are healed. LOL

    Y’all are NEVER, EVER going to be able to stop or even pause ww, Aw, African women or any mixture women from using every tool in their arsenal to get the highest quality men, men with the most resources.

    Like

    • Neecy
      Dec 05, 2014 @ 13:13:42

      Hey Evia!

      Thanks for your input. i repsectfully partially disagree with this. Not wholey just partially.

      I just no longer feel that the REAL problem is bad acting AA women. I’m starting to realize that people are allowed to be who they are – and sometimes it aint great. Because for as many bad acting BW I see, i can point to 10 more bad acting Non Black women doing the same or worse. We can sit and look at Reality shows of trashy WW all day long (and they exist) and still society walks away with a nice balanced view of NON BW allowing them to freely be the people they are in all thier good and crazy, bad glory.

      The real problem is. Society DOES NOT and is unwilling to give BW that same balanced platform. If they did, these “bad acting” BW wouldn’t matter a bit. They’d be no different than the White trashy women we see and know of daily on our TV sets.

      That is why my point is, if you do not fit the profile of these BW, you are already doing the right thing. if there are people unwilling to ackowledge this and acknoweldge you as an INDIVIDUAL, trying to appease them with RP is futile and will get you nowehere.

      It matters because BW are in a WAR and its not solely with bad acting AA women. They have a powerful source behind them encouraging and helping to PROMOTE them at all costs. BW have daggers coming at them from all angles. We are being ambushed in the worse way by a number of people and entities. It aint solely AA BW who are the problem. To say such is being dishonest and unwilling to acknowledge the role that others in more pwoerful positions play at keeping us inthis uphill battle.

      And that powerful source consists of those in society who have much to gain by keeping BW in undersirable perceptions. The media is the most influential and powerful tool used to create and form perceptions, ideas and pubic opinions of people, places and things.

      We could have the same amount of stereotypical BW on TV and the same amount of non stereotypical BW on TV and the results would be different because people would get a balance. But there is no BALANCE and THAT is the CRUX of the problem.

      BW are not perfect beings and should not be made to feel like we have to be to be loved, respected and given the benefit of the doubt to be seen as individuals.

      This society is not setup that way and NEVER has been when it comes to Black womanhood. We have NEVER been given that benefit because for the most part we are not seen as whole beings in many people’s eyes.

      The proof of that is simply in how our issues and plights as women are universally ignored by ALL.

      Like

      • Evia
        Dec 05, 2014 @ 14:12:17

        Neecy, I think the following is your central point, so I’ll address it:

        The real problem is. Society DOES NOT and is unwilling to give BW that same balanced platform. If they did, these “bad acting” BW wouldn’t matter a bit. They’d be no different than the White trashy women we see and know of daily on our TV sets.

        But WHY would anyone be fair and nice enough to bw to GIVE bw a balanced platform? LOL How does that benefit them to do that for us?

        I think this is the core difference between a bw like me and maybe you and many of the commenters? I know some of you get tired of me saying this, but this right here is the reason why I continue to point out that life has NEVER been fair. I see this SAME lamenting about the lack of fairness in the subtext in so many comments made by bw these days. Many bw don’t come out and say it, but it’s still there. This speaks to what really causes a lot of anger among blacks: their longing for fairness that they will NEVER get because people create the force that brings their fairness to them. It’s never GIVEN. I already know other folks are not going to GIVE me anything and this is among the reasons why I’m not going to GIVE them any ammunition to use against me and mine. Why would I give them ammunition and then complain when they shoot me with it?? I KNOW without any doubt there is a VERY high probability they’re going use it to mow me down. And even if they don’t I’m not going to give them that power to do that whenever they please. Black Americans used to KNOW this and this is why I know it. I didn’t just spring out of nowhere knowing this. Illiterate bw who had never left the backwoods of Alabama used to know this type of elementary common sense. Yet today, there are so many executive level bw with multiple degrees who can’t seem to connect these elementary dots? This is SCARY!

        The bottomline is that bw must put up or shut up because other folks are not going to change. They’ve found their winning formula, so why would they do anything different? Y’all can write that down. AAbw must build their OWN balanced platform, just like other groups. Bw have to take the same steps that other groups have taken. By now, there are enough so-called “progressive” bw to have their own balanced platforms and y’all should be SO thankful that AAbw these days have approx a trillion dollars (last I heard) they could put towards that end. And it would only take a fraction of that to do it.

        Like

        • Neecy
          Dec 05, 2014 @ 14:22:26

          EVIA that is exactly what I wa staying!

          Actually I think we are in agreement but communicating it in different ways.

          I have stressed over Andover in the actual post itself that it’s imperative for BW to stop crying about everyone else and do what it takes to build the same platforms that they have to get ahead.

          Lol did anyone READ my entire post cause honestly I addressed a lot of this I the original post! Lol

          Ok there were other parts in my response that addressed that and said that we cannot depend on others to uplift us BUT OURSELVES.

          But that’s th thing. I am NOT asking society to be fair. I am telling BW simp,y who and what the real crux of the problem is and why we should stop entertaining people who already have a goal of keeping us in a box.

          Once you know the root of the problem you can start attacking it and do something about it in an educated matter. And the root is, society is not going to play fair with BW, jumping down the throats of BW we cannot change is futile. So do what they did and create a balance.

          I am saying instead o f paying this game of jumping through hoops, trying to change crazy acting BW, work at promoting this culture of BW that you want to see and DO it. That is done through supporting people and entities that are promoting the positive images of BW.

          Not by fighting with crazy acting BW or trying to appease racists who already have you pegged and who will try to keep you that way because it benefits them.

          Like

    • Breanna
      Dec 05, 2014 @ 19:50:34

      First off, excellent article.

      Secondly, Evia’s comment needs to be highlighted.

      Particularly when saying WHO CARES WHAT THEY THINK??? What do YOU think about yourself? I don’t understand bw who lament over others not liking us – I’m sorry- who was born indebted to another? Not I, says the cat.

      I honestly don’t care what the world wants to see me act like; I want to see what I can get out of this world while I’m here. Black women’s image is NOT as static as we think it is. We are in complete control – right now we are riding up the roller coaster and reaching the top where it seems the hardest. It seems that people are coming after us fiercer. Feels like we have to give up. And that’s precisely when change begins.

      Only if you focus on the way your ride is going.

      Other than pointing that out I think this is one of the best articles I have read about black women getting up and making OUR change.

      Like

  6. Evia
    Dec 05, 2014 @ 11:07:31

    Part 2

    Anyway, here’s what was emailed to me this morning by someone who read your post. And from reading this, I’m thrilled that I don’t EVER watch the not-news “News.”
    ___________________

    Neecy’s most recent article is thought provoking, but she’s avoiding the ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM. I feel she’s still concentrating on the wrong people. Racist people not willing to give BW a chance. YES, they’re out there. BUT, NON racist people who are SUPPORTIVE of the quality BW they personally know are ALSO out there.

    About that elephant… CURRENTLY BW are behaving in an angry/defiant/masculine/anti-white manner on the WORLD STAGE. NO. These women DON’T represent all of us. BUT, they sadly DO represent a large enough percentage.

    So YES, African-American BW ARE going to have to go that “extra mile“ ( which isn’t an extra mile to me). Just be your feminine, sweet, intelligent, articulate, personable self. And ONLY care about those who can APPRECIATE that. DON’T FOCUS ON RACISTS. Show that we’re NOT like the angry BW stereotype. Which sadly isn’t a stereotype when it comes to a lot of BW.

    No, she of course mentions high profile BW and girls who’ve been targeted by ANGRY racist entitled JEALOUS white women. Well DUH…!LOL Of course they’re going to be pissed as non stereotypical BW and girls rise. BUT luckily, these women/girls she spoke of in her article are being well provided for.

    What Neecy needs to understand/admit is, sadly, BW are BW’s WORST ENEMY. BW do FAR more damage to the image of BW than BM, white people, or anyone else.

    And single BW interested in marriage to quality men, are going to have work OVERTIME these days to try to counteract the ( constant now ) NEGATIVE PRESS that these sister-soldiers are providing on an international stage.

    The BW who continue to shoot themselves in the foot are “ running the show “ so to speak. Just like the DRBM are. BW and BM who are NOT like that, must stand out in some positive way, because STILL sadly there are many people who get their impressions of people who are different them from TELEVISION.

    Which is obviously a recipe for disaster. It’s best to get OFFLINE and OUT THERE and mingle and make those connections. EVERY white person is not out to get you and EVERY black person is [certainly] not necessarily in your corner.

    EVERYBODY has to be judged on a CASE BY CASE basis. As individuals.

    Not ONCE in Neecy’s article did she mention these protests/riots going on. That’s ignoring the elephant in the room…
    ___________________________________

    What she says is VERY true. Bw, unfortunately, are going to be judged by how they present themselves on TV since the overwhelming most of whites in this country (due to residential segregation) rarely ever see a black person or only a scarce few in their everyday lives and never really mingle. For ex., I live in an area that is 95% white and I could go for many days of every month out here without seeing a black person–AT ALL. I have to make an effort to see black people. I can go to the supermarket, gym, certain shopping centers, movie theater, certain restaurants, and other places people normally go and NEVER see black folks or only see them from a distance.. However, if I were to turn on my TV set and watch what’s going with the rioting and sensationalized depictions in the news of bw acting like shemales, I could get a very nasty view of bw, and I’d probably believe they’re all like that IF I weren’t a bw, myself.

    Like

    • Neecy
      Dec 05, 2014 @ 12:37:17

      PART 1

      Evia, this in response to the person who sent you the email. In the future, Id apreciate them bringing their concerns about what I write HERE and allowing a discourse to happen that way vs. them running and not giving me an opportunity to counteract what they said. But i am glad you posted this because I have quite the retort to her email.

      I’ll break it up in parts.
      ——————————————————————————————————

      CURRENTLY BW are behaving in an angry/defiant/masculine/anti-white manner on the WORLD STAGE. NO. These women DON’T represent all of us. BUT, they sadly DO represent a large enough percentage.

      Hmmm. I made these statements in the post. Not sure if they read my entire post, and happened to miss these points but they were made:

      “It’s BW who do not fit the stereotypes, just have to be more vocal and proactive about representing ourselves. Just like the stereotypical BW have (with help) been readily representing themselves and their ilk unapologetically….

      The problem is we have been unwilling to work to formulate our own culture as non-stereotypical BW. We have allowed one kind of BW to represent the whole. We’ve been immersed and mixed in with our unfavorable sisters…..

      The real issue is, Non stereotypical BW have just been too silent publicly about who we are. And we have to learn to use our power to uplift OUR KIND and create the culture that we live by daily that others refuse to acknowledge exists….”

      IOW’s I was basically saying that just as Stereotypical BW have made an EFFORT to represent themselves nationally and publicly, NON STEREOTYPICAL BW’s best defense to that is doing what they did.

      The fact is, no one is going to change the stereotypical BW, because THEY DO EXIST. Just like White trash exists! White people are not trying to change the low class trash of their race. They are busy spending time creating and promoting the positive people in their race and culture.

      The other fact is, I don’t care how many stereotypical BW one sees on television. Smart intelligent people who interact in today’s world have at some point mingled or interacted with BW who do not fit those stereotypes. If grown people choose to use see all BW as a monolith and stereotype, it doesn’t matter how many “extra miles” you go and hoops you jump through to prove you are different. They have already labeled you accordingly so any further actions to try to win them over is futile. The point I was making was, time is better spent around people and places that are willing to see you as an INDIVIDUAL.

      In fact, I am willing to bet more people deal directly with Non Stereotypical BW than the vice versa. The main issue is stereotypical BW get MEDIA time and we all know media is a very effective tool in creating and formulating perceptions about people, places and things. The MEDIA has chosen to give very little air time and press to non-stereotypical BW, BECAUSE IT DOES NOT BEHOOVE THEM TOO.

      Like

      • Neecy
        Dec 05, 2014 @ 12:38:04

        PART 2
        The other MAIN problem is non-stereotypical BW have been LAZY and unwilling to counteract these images by doing what it takes to make our presence known in the world. While Stereotypical BW were paving their way in media, we should have been EQUALLY doing the same to keep a balance. But we DID NOT DO THAT and thus why we are where we are!

        Now we are in a position of fighting an uphill battle because we sat IDLE and watched while stereotypical BW ran with it (WITH THE HELP OF AMERICAN SOCIETY) and as a result we have been pushed out and now fighting to try to turn these images around.

        Stereotypical BW have had a GREAT help from the most powerful source in the world – THE MEDIA. And the blame is not solely placed squarely on the shoulders of Sterotypical AA women because it has been the MEDIA and its historically RACIST AGENDA against BW, that has helped to fuel the fire behind the images we see today of BW.

        And this post is not about wondering why racists won’t give BW a special spot at the table. It’s about Progressive BW no longer feeling as if they have to carry the burdens of stereotypical BW when the world KNOWS and sees that there are plenty of non-stereotypical BW that exist. The problem is we have not formulated a PLAN (like the media and stereotypical BW have) to counteract the constant barrage of negativity that the world sees of BW.

        So really if we wanna place blame, it needs to be placed on the shoulders of Black women like myself and others of the Progressive mind frame for WAITING too long to do something about our wholeness as BW.

        This is no longer (for me) about changing stereotypical BW. These women are the way they are because of their circumstances and indoctrination and also their unwillingness to break those chains that keep them in the matrix.

        Stereotypical BW do not want to change and racist American media doesn’t either and society for their own benefits does not want to acknowledge the non stereotypical BW that they work with and interact with and see on a daily basis. That is no longer my problem.

        My goal is to get progressive BW to see that you have been doing the right thing for DECADES by being non-stereotypical and living well. The issue is it does not benefit OTHERS to acknowledge us even when they see and know of us and they have used their POWER to defeat us.

        Also we just haven’t been aggressive in making it known that we do EXIST and are not willing to sit by and allow other types of BW and their ALLIES (the racist American media) control the perception of our womanhood.

        Like

        • Neecy
          Dec 05, 2014 @ 12:38:31

          PART 3

          I am not asking WW or Non BW to invite us to the seat at their table. I am telling progressive BW to stop sitting back quietly, stop wasting efforts to try to change those who do not want to change and UNDERSTAND that the goal of many is to not see the “good BW” and they will do whatever it takes to keep you in your place

          Its simply about Progressive BW SIMPLY DOING. And that doing is about creating spaces and using the same force that American media and stereotypical BW have used to make a name for themselves and Black womanhood. The other part is just DOING, LIVING and surrounding yourself with non ignorant people who can look beyond stereotypes. And unfortunately we are not living in a society where they are the majority. So Progressive BW have to understand it will take a special kind of man and person to see beyond the stereotypes and accept her for who she is as a person. No more time should be spent wondering and contemplating on how to Change crazy BW so that everyone can love us. No more time should be spent playing respectability politics.

          If they don’t love you now, they never have and NEVER WILL!

          Like

          • Neecy
            Dec 05, 2014 @ 12:39:16

            Part 4

            So YES, African-American BW ARE going to have to go that “extra mile“ ( which isn’t an extra mile to me). Just be your feminine, sweet, intelligent, articulate, personable self. And ONLY care about those who can APPRECIATE that. DON’T FOCUS ON RACISTS. Show that we’re NOT like the angry BW stereotype. Which sadly isn’t a stereotype when it comes to a lot of BW.

            Uhm NO. It’s not about going the extra mile for me anymore. How many more damn miles does a non-stereotypical Bw have to go to prove she is “worthy” of being recognized as such. All one can do is BE. And BEING is not enough now for Non-Stereotypical BW! That is my point. Some people just aren’t going to see you beyond your race and skin color no matter how good you are. And my point is, do not spend time ENTERTAINING them and trying to fight stereotypes that you’ve NEVER BEEN!

            Instead focus on being around and with people who are capable of seeing you as an individual and not trying to make you PROVE yourseld to them that you are “not like the others”.

            The fact is stereotypical BW exist just as non-stereotypical BW exist. The difference between the two is non-stereotypical BW haven’t sat around quietly. They with the help of media have managed to bogard their way to the perception podium and make themselves the poster girl for black womanhood. And Progressive BW just sat and did nothing! That is my point.

            Like

            • Neecy
              Dec 05, 2014 @ 12:41:29

              PART 5

              What Neecy needs to understand/admit is, sadly, BW are BW’s WORST ENEMY. BW do FAR more damage to the image of BW than BM, white people, or anyone else.

              So what is her solution??? To change those BW? Well good luck. Cause the reality is, those BW have chosen that way for themselves for a variety of reasons. If progressive BW want to make strides, they need to start CREATING platforms, media outlets and using the same tactics that stereotypical BW and their allies (the American media) have used for decades to tarnish and continue tarnishing the images of BW.

              And single BW interested in marriage to quality men, are going to have work OVERTIME these days to try to counteract the ( constant now ) NEGATIVE PRESS that these sister-soldiers are providing on an international stage.

              I have yet to see progressive BM sitting around wondering how to change the bad apples of their bunch. You know why? CAUSE THEY DO NOT NEED TO. White women and Non Black women are very well aware of BM’s track record when it comes to relationships, crime and all the other crap that they do. Yet, BM still have managed quite well in the Interracial dating market and have fared better in the media than BW. And they have done so, despite their negative images because NON BLACK WOMEN CHOOSE TO SEE THE BLAKC MEN IN THEIR LIVES AS INDIVIDUALS AND NOT THEIR ENTIRE GROUP.

              If non Black men are unwilling to do that for BW, its because a majority have no interest in the FIRST PLACE. PERIOD.

              This is what BW need to understand and GET.

              So the only solution AS I HAVE BEEN POINTING OUT ON THIS BLOG – is for Non-stereotypical BW to STAND Up and play that game. That will require supporting outlets that foster and promote that opposite of the stereotypical AA culture we have been seeing, creating our own MEDIA OUTLETS and doing EXACTLY what stereotypical AA women and their POWERFUL ALLIES have been doing for DEACDES.

              Like

              • Neecy
                Dec 05, 2014 @ 12:43:02

                LAST PART

                EVERYBODY has to be judged on a CASE BY CASE basis. As individuals.

                UHM that is EXACTLY what this post was about! HELLO! Did she read the post? That is exactly what I have said. That BW who are not stereotypical individuals are NOT being judged based on a case by case basis.

                And most of that problem is NOT stereotypical BW – it’s the people who for their own BENEFITS that are using their power to NOT judge BW on a case by case and using their TOOL (stereotypical AA women) to keep the perceptions alive even though many people know that Non stereotypical BW are as common as stereotypical BW.

                So ultimately it goes back to the POWER SOURCE – i.e Non Black women and racist media. PERIOD. Stereotypical BW have existed since the beginning of time and they will not go away. Just like low class and stereotypical trashy WW and other non BW have existed. People come across low class and see nasty stereotypes of Non BW all day every day. Yet why is it that they seem to manage to be able to counteract those nasty images and stereotypes with positive ones? They have power and dominance in the media to project as they wish.

                THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE.

                Not ONCE in Neecy’s article did she mention these protests/riots going on. That’s ignoring the elephant in the room…

                I do not need to mention riots and protests in every post I make. I have done SEVERAL posts on telling BW why they look like damn fools protesting in these BM “crises” events that do not garner anything positive for BW.

                But guess what!? I am already preaching to the choir here. Every post is not going to be about telling Black women why we should not protest. That’s obvious and doesn’t need to be addressed in every topic I write about. It’s been covered.

                And frankly, at this juncture, I am not going to continue to focus on women who I cannot change and who do not want to change. That is a waste of time, energy and EFFORT. That effort is better spent in uplifting and encouraging Non stereotypical BW to take up arms and put that same vigor into supporting and creating outlets to show who WE ARE.

                Like

  7. keiota jones
    Dec 05, 2014 @ 11:44:48

    I get what you are saying, but I think you should study and contemplate the issue of respectability politics more. This whole article is shoving “respectability” down my throat. You keep up talking about the “good” black women vs. the “bad” (I assume you think these women are stereotypes and less deserving of respect and humanity) in a “us” vs. “them” fashion. It’s kind of like you have the same problem processing images of black women that those who judge you have. Why can’t you look at the women you refer to as stereotypes and see that they are just women…. Like you. Stereotypes are an outsider’s misinterpretation and ignorance of what is actually going on. From what I know a out respectability politics is that Black folks are far harsher at policing the respectability of other Black folks than anyone else.

    Like

    • Neecy
      Dec 05, 2014 @ 13:56:52

      Hey Keiota!

      Thanks for your input and honesty. And yes, I am still wrangling with the RP issue.

      But actually. I’m not doing as you say. If you go back and read my post, I am finally saying that BW have the right to BE whoever they are (bad, good or otherwise) and those who are unwilling to acknowledge us as individuals are the ones with the problem – NOT the stereotypical acting BW.

      And when I speak of stereotypical acting BW, I am not saying they are les shuman or deserving. I am using them as an example of the types of BW that people hold up as some sort of poster child for all BW. And those BW are typically unpleasant in some sort to many people in society. There are simply behaviors that are not deemed desirable to people. And a lot of stereotypical BW uphold the negative stereotypes of BW.

      We have to be willing to acknowledge that certain behaviors and actions do not work to BW’s overall benefit. However, i am now taking a tsand that you know what – BW are not a monolith, never have been and never will be. So why do we have to feel as though its the crazy BW who have to change when the real problem is people just do not want to ackowledge BW as individuals. because that would mean they would have to deal with thire own insecurities and issues and also acknowledge BW are WHOLE BEINGS.

      i have clearly stated that stereotypical AA women are NO LONGER the problem in my eyes, as I have perviously thought. In fact, theyhave a right to be who they are. And i have a right to be who I am without feeling the need to change them bevause others are unwilling to acknowledge me as a PERSON and not my race/gedner alone.

      The PROBLEM really lies in two things IMO:

      (1) BW who do not fit these images have done NOTHING to counteract and balance them out

      (2) Society has a vested ineterst in not acknowledging BW as individuals because that means for SOME – more compeition for what they have and simply saying that we are whole biengs worthy of love, respect and everything else that people want for.

      Like

  8. Lulu
    Dec 05, 2014 @ 13:07:36

    I think black women really ought to ignore all of this black twitter and tumblr feminism because it’s foolishness and a recipe on how to stay losing. Why would anyone want to be the opposite of respectable? Because they care more about sticking it to white folks than they are about making life easier for themselves? Sorry, but these anti-“respectability politics” proponents seem far more consumed with what white people think of them then those of us who see all of this as silly rantings of Blakistani born and bred black people who never learned how to act outside of Blakistan.

    I don’t carry myself in a “respectable” manner as a way to make white people like me. I do so because that’s how I was raised, it makes ME feel good, and it BENEFITS ME every single day. A byproduct of that is that, yes, I am indeed treated differently from the black woman next to me who is labeled “ratchet”. There may be a white person who sees me and that ratchet woman as exactly the same. So what? That hasn’t stopped me from benefiting from being a well mannered and well groomed woman in a society where those kind of behaviors are increasingly rare. I find this whole rise of anti “respectability politics” wave ridiculous to be silly. Up to a certain point it makes sense. Yes, we know that if someone hates you because of your race, there’s nothing to can do to change that. There’s nothing you can wear that will change that. No amount of education can change that. But again, so what?! Are we all just supposed to throw up our hands and act a fool simply because racism exists and every white person in the world is not gonna love us? White people don’t even respect their own when they engage in ratchet behavior, but we somehow demand that they respect us when we’re ratchet too? Come on, people. When it comes down to it, it’s really just becomes an excuse for ratchet people to whine about the social consequences they face for ratchet behavior. Look at Michelle Obama. Yes, there are a bunch of miserable white losers online who spend their days and nights posting hateful garbage about her. They think she’s no different than some baby mama on the street. And? So what? They are losers who have not an iota of power over her or her daughters. She still wakes up every morning in the White House with a servant standing in front of her with her breakfast on a golden platter. Those bigots can’t touch her because she and her husband have created a life for themselves that places them far above those people. The idiots attacking her online are less than peons in her world. In fact, I doubt she even thinks about those people. Her life is so much bigger and greater than theirs could ever be. And she got there not by being a ghetto bird but by being “respectable”. Being the opposite of respectable does NOT benefit black women. And I feel like black women following behind these black twitter-tumbler feminists and their “Anti-respectability” politics policing is not wise at all.

    Just my opinion.

    Like

    • Neecy
      Dec 05, 2014 @ 13:46:12

      That really wasn’t the point of my post.

      Obviously being respectable will get you far in life.

      The point of me brining up respectability was the POLITICS behind it. Not the ACT of being respectful.

      My point was, if you are ALREADY acting in a way that you show respect for yourself as a BW by living well, being pleasant, intelligent, easy going and all the other components of what makes one “respectable” and valuable to others, then you do not need to PLAY the respectability politics game. Because some people will still always try to “remind” you of WHAT you are as opposed to acknoweldging WHO you are.

      This post is NOT about BW who behave badly. Its about BW who are ALREADY being themselves and being the decent fully whole individuals daily.

      The fact of the matter is – there are shitty people in all walks races and cultures. BW are not perfect and never will be. The problem for BW is, we are not allowed to be INDIVIDUALS. So when certain BW act a fool, we all get labled with that EVEN IF you are a woman who carries herself with class and dignity and self respect.

      I watch a show caled SNApPED. That show features 95% of White and non Blck women who kill their significant others for a variety of selfish reasons. YET, that doesn’t seem to hurt their prospects at marriage and relationships. WHY? Because people are not going to use crazy WW as the measuring stick for White womanhood. WHY? because WW like other Non Black women are given the ability to be seen as INDIVIDUALS and not by thier group.

      I can sit on PUA formus all day and read men complain about WW till the cows come home. But they still do not disregard WW out of thier dating pool based on all the bad relationships they have had with WW who have used and abused them.

      So frankly. I know its just easier for people to have a punching bag group to keep in the cut, for when they start feeling bad about themsleves. And that is why BW no matter how great we are are constantly still barraged with insults and nasty stereotypes NO MATTER WHAT. And my message is for the BW who do not represent those stereotypes to stop trying to appease those who cannot be apeased because they need someone beneath them to stay on top!

      Why can’t BW have the same?? Why do we have to feel we have to contantly chnage and fight with the crazies in our group to get ahead? All we have to do is work at PROMOTING and representing who WE ARE. The best we can do is BLANACE the images and hope that some crazy acting BW step put the matrix and see the light.

      WHO do BW have to look to these days for positive role models?? WHO? How can we expect them to just “change” when the positive acting BW have done nothing to formulate another culture for BW to ascribe to and model themselves after?

      So my point is, instead of playing the game, trying to change crazy acting BW, more time should be spent FORMULATING our own culture as progressive BW and using the same tactics that others have used to keep us hidden. And in that HOPE that we can bring some indoctrinated, matrix dwelling sistasonthe way.

      Crazy BW exist. Non respectable BW exist. And frnakly, I no longer have an interest in trying to “CHANGE THEM”. My interest is in promoting, uplifting and encouraging BW who care about themselves and how they are perceived to live thier lives and do what it takes to counteract the negative as BEST you can while understanding that sometimes that will NEVER be good enough for many people who benefit off of seeing BW living stereotypical lives.

      No other races of women have the burden of carrying the trash of thier race on their shoulders. NONE exect BW. That is just another way to hold BW back.

      I cannot change crazy acting or trashy BW. i can only congregate with those who I feel can help to counteract these images and do our parts as women to work at using stealth and tactics to get ahead.

      Fighting with crazy acting AA women is pointless. The best we can hope for is that as more Progressive BW start forming our outlets and hoefully media outlets we can reach that segment of BW and hope that some will see the light and change themselves.

      I’m not going to carry the burden of all of my crazy acting race/gender anymore. And this blog will free other BW WHO WANT TO, from feeling that way as well.

      We can only DO and BE the best we can be. We cannot change people.

      That’s it.

      Like

    • Evia
      Dec 05, 2014 @ 14:42:10

      @Lulu, re:

      I don’t carry myself in a “respectable” manner as a way to make white people like me. I do so because that’s how I was raised, it makes ME feel good, and it BENEFITS ME every single day.

      THANK YOU!

      I can TOTALLY relate to this. It actually took me a while to understand what black folks mean when they keep throwing the term “respectability politics” around.

      I carry myself like a respectable person in ALL of my waking hours. Even when I’m at home alone, I conduct myself in a respectable manner. I don’t behave this way because of white people.

      I, too, behave in this way because I was raised this way. This is my self-concept. I was raised to conduct myself with decorum and ALWAYS, ALWAYS in any public venue–no matter what.

      I’m a respectable person who carries herself in a respectable way no matter what any white person may think. Even when I lived in a black country with no whites around, I carried myself like a respectable woman. What white folks think does NOT change who I am inside, the way I’ve been shaped. If all white people disappeared from earth, I would STILL behave like a respectable person.

      So, the opposite of behaving in a respectable way is WHAT? Acting UNCOUTH?

      Are bw supposed to conduct themselves with decorum simply because white people might be looking? LOL *Flabberghasted*

      Behaving in a respectable manner has definitely brought me all kinds of benefits even when I’ve been around the lowest elements of whites and blacks. I can go anywhere and feel a comfort level in the way I carry myself and the way that will be received. And I’m definitely nobody’s mule or mammy.

      Like

  9. bubblychie27
    Dec 05, 2014 @ 13:10:46

    Reblogged this on Black Girl With An Attitude and commented:
    Phenomel. This is exactly why I’m not part of some black activist movement, feminist/womanist movement. All of them equally harmful for black American women.

    Like

  10. Sophia
    Dec 05, 2014 @ 14:51:31

    I agree with Lulu. I was raised to be courteous, considerate and respectful and uncouth manners were never tolerated for a second so there is no “effort” in me behaving like a respectable member of society because I was raised to be a respectable member of society. If for some reason a black woman did not have the fortune to be raised in a proper way it behooves her to learn as an adult, and minimize signs of classless behaviour. If that is considered respectability politics, then so be it. Investing in that kind of behaviour modification yields dividends in so many aspects of one’s life; romantic, work-related, friendships, etc.

    Having said that, “ratchet” black women, or their portrayal of them, does not concern me in the least. Perhaps it’s due to living in Canada where stereotypes of black women are not as strong (they are still there though) or maybe it’s due to the circles I move in (professional, upper middle class) but I don’t know anyone who watches trash reality shows and worse, bases their perceptions on groups of people on them.

    As to Neecy’s point, yes, people love to stereotype black women and some get very uncomfortable when a black woman does not fit the box they want to place her in. I have a story about that actually….

    My sister recently had the misfortune to work in a toxic environment for a short period of time, in a dept run by a rather rotund white female manager. The manager’s favourites were two other very overweight white woman. My sis did her work, did her best to get along with everyone and had excellent relationships with her male co-workers. The performance and results of her job could be measured quantitatively and as such she was the top performer, no disputing that fact. In addition, she was always sought out by junior members of the team as she was excellent at training people. However, the manager couldn’t stand her guts, and we truly believe it was because of a combination of jealousy and intimidation, exacerbated by a malignant personality. Her male team-mates noticed it, validated her feelings and actually pointed to examples of the manager’s jealousy and intimidation:

    – Two of the VPs and my sister were major bookworms (they all would run into one another at a nearby bookstore) and the men would occasionally come over to her desk to discuss books. The manager would run out of her office to see who they were talking to, and she would get angry when she saw them talking to my sis. One time, after one of the VPs left my sis’s desk, the manager actually reprimanded her publically because my sis was wasting time not focusing on work ( she is the top performer); this from a woman who takes 2 hour lunches, leaves work early, and is always on facebook or online shopping.
    – One of my sister’s male teammates told her that he noticed how the manager would always stomp away when team conversation turned to politics and current events (which my sister has a deep interest in) as she knew nothing about these topics. Of course, she never held it against the male colleagues but she did against my sister.
    – Her and the other white women loved sending memes and viral videos with black women behaving stereotypically. They delighted in it and would mimic the speaking styles of these poor women. My sister does not watch trash and rarely participated in their discussions. It was quietly noticed by her male colleagues.
    – During training sessions with an external vendor one of the senior managers, observing my sister, made the remark that she is destined for a leadership position. This did not make the white female manager happy and she tried to counteract the remark. My sister only heard this after she left the group.
    – My sister is a tea drinker. A major incident arose when a male colleague prepared
    a cup of tea for my sister and brought it to her desk. One of the white woman asked teasingly “What about me?”. The male colleague, without thinking, said “I only do this for real ladies”. Shit hit the fan. Thank God my sister was not involved directly but it shows how she was perceived by the functioning members of her team.
    – A lot of the guys on that team loved the show “Suits”. My sister and all of the men love the character of Gina Torres. Guess who hated her guts? The overweight white women actually said “I don’t like her cause she is full of herself”. The lack of self-awareness was breathtaking….

    My sister had such a horrible time on that time, all due to the manager, but her reputation, performance and overall demeanor and personality made her stand out to the point that a manager (white man) from another department poached her for his group, to the anger of the white woman as he went around her, and she’s much happier there. Not only that, but some of her male colleagues went on to other companies and have offered to bring my sister in with them should she wish. My sister cultivated great allies and an excellent network and a lot of it was due to her personality, professionalism, charm and intelligence. Evia is right, make suitable and powerful allies as they will help you in life.

    Like

  11. kenna
    Dec 05, 2014 @ 15:48:17

    I agree with your article, however, I am not so worried about other races as I am worried about my own. Black society esp. in this country does not encourage individuality. Its like black people have a written/non-written rule on what its truly means to be black and if you don’t adhere to the rules, you get seriously reprimanded by the black militant police. you are called uncle ruckus, aunt jemima, house slave and get beaten with the black stick. Because there are black people who enjoying acting a fool, other races esp. those who have little contact with black people expect that we are all a bunch of neck poppers, finger snappers, fried chicken, mac n cheese, beyonce and Jay z loving group of people. When we are all different women. Are there women who are ghetto hoodrats, yes? so are the sci-fi nerds, book lover, shy girl, the gym rat etc.
    but unfortunately black society does not seem to appreciate that why? because how are they going to keep the black ‘con’munity going without women who no longer wants to drink the kool aid?
    how can we change the minds of others when the women in our races is hellbent on embracing all the negative stereotypes on what it means to be black?

    Like

  12. Olu
    Dec 05, 2014 @ 16:18:12

    Hey Neecy,
    I hope you’ve been well. I’ve really enjoyed the commentary on this page.

    I wanted to just point out that a lot of times, people making (racist) remarks about BW are white women (who tend to escape backlash just like black men). Many white women specifically feel VERY comfortable making racist comments about or directed to black women that the average white man would not direct at a black man because in our society white men are actually taken to task for their overt racism and discrimination. White women, however, are given more leeway to be racist because of 1) stereotypes of WW being nice and innocent and not ill-intentioned or responsible for their hatred because “WM taught them” (their failure to take responsibility for their own wrongs by passing it on WM mirrors BM’s deflection of their historical and present-day evils onto WM), 2) WW clinging to the notion that they are one of the most oppressed groups in existence lol AND people buying into that lie by joining hands with them (at least in word, not so much in deed) to go against the evil white man that these WW curiously (not really lol) still continue to birth and cling to for resources, and 3) men of color allowing them to get away with their racism because of their sexual attraction to them, and dutiful/foolish women of color (in particular, black women), to stay in alignment with their male counterparts, going along with the script of giving them a pass and unloading all of their feelings about racism onto white men.

    The last one in particular should remind BW that BW’s fight is not BM’s fight. Instead of narrowly focusing on BM’s enemies, BW should have and still need to draw boundary lines on ALL enemies of the BW collective, including WW and BM. Because well before the racism directed at Shonda Rhimes and the Obama girls, other individual WW have been saying some anti-black women stuff even in public media that they were never adequately punished for or was not seen as racism at all. I’m surprised that WW who insulted Malia and Sasha (and she’s the definition of basic, no wonder she’s mad) was taken to task for it.
    However, if BW do not pick up on this opportunity to start calling out white female racism and racism from groups other than WM (and I don’t see them doing it, as they are too focused on WM v BM), WW and others will feel comfortable continuing to stereotype and dehumanize BW.

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  13. DiraD
    Dec 05, 2014 @ 20:14:33

    I am going to apologize in advance for this long winded post…

    I was one of those BW who truly thought she could transcend race. I thought that as long as I did everything right (aka white) that I would automatically be looked at differently. Hence, I made sure to carefully select my wardrobe (nothing remotely ethnic). I spoke only SAE, even when my white peers thought black slang was cool (foshizzle anyone?); heck, I sound like Becky from the Midwest. I always wore my hair in straight, appropriate styles (braids were just too ghetto). I made sure that I carried myself in a respectable manner. I proudly proclaimed that I was a cradle Catholic and denounced black Protestant churches. Despite all of my efforts to distance myself from negative stereotypes, I still got slapped in the face by those who refused to see me as anything other than ghetto trash.

    My first slap came towards the end of high school. A WW classmate was rejected from the same highly ranked, private research university where I had been accepted. She declared that the only reason I was accepted was due to Affirmative Action. Now, she was an inferior student to compared me in every aspect (GPA, course load, SAT scores, even extracurriculars), yet the only reason I won my place was due to race. Despite all of my accomplishments and my demeanor, in her eyes, I was nothing more than a thieving hoodrat who stole her place. I realized in that episode that there would always be people who wrote me off as ghetto trash simply due to the fact that I am a BW.

    Despite that first slap and the many afterwards, I continue to present myself as a well-mannered, educated young lady and I do it for myself.

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    • DiraD
      Dec 05, 2014 @ 20:30:06

      As for the media portrayal of BW, we are going to have to accept that too many entities have a vested interest in presenting BW as sub-human scum. That is the cold hard truth. Furthermore, since our parents and older sibling of the 70s and 80s preferred to beg for scraps instead of building their own, blacks lack the infrastructure to counteract the negative images; the little black infrastructure we have has the most vested interest in knocking BW.

      IMHO, the solution is two-fold. One, divest from media that portrays our image in a negative light, regardless of if that media white or black. Money talks. Two, we have to start building our own platforms.

      As I mentioned in a previous Neecy post, remember that revolutions succeed not because of a majority consensus but due to the will of a few to change their circumstances. Look at the Protestant, American, French and Russian revolutions. All of them were spearheaded by a minority faction fed up with the status quo. We BW have to accept that not all BW will embrace BWE principles, many will continue with business as usual, but that does not mean that BWE cannot improve the circumstances of BW in general.

      Like

    • Neecy
      Dec 06, 2014 @ 03:23:20

      DIRA,

      This is EXACTLY in line with what I was saying. Thank you for providing your personal example.

      Th point is to simly understand why others will lash out at you, even when you are doing the right thing. And the problem lies with THEM. Not sterotypical BW or YOU.

      Like

  14. JaliliMaster
    Dec 05, 2014 @ 23:03:06

    Neecy said: “So ultimately it goes back to the POWER SOURCE – i.e Non Black women and racist media. PERIOD. Stereotypical BW have existed since the beginning of time and they will not go away. Just like low class and stereotypical trashy WW and other non BW have existed. People come across low class and see nasty stereotypes of Non BW all day every day. Yet why is it that they seem to manage to be able to counteract those nasty images and stereotypes with positive ones? They have power and dominance in the media to project as they wish.
    THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE.

    This is where I think you are getting it wrong Neecy. Non-BW are most definitely NOT the ‘power source’. In that group, you are including ww, aw, hw, arab women, etc, basically everyone except as some sort of power source. That sort of thinking will only lead down the road of many who are reading this to just see themselves as victims Victims of ‘other women’ because these said other women are refusing to ‘play fair’. The fact is that the only people who are talking that fairness mess are bw. Even bm, who are always moaning and crying about how wm (and nowadays, other nonbm) are not being fair by giving them a ‘fair’ shot at playing to be top dog, when they get any sort of power, no matter how miniscule, they have zero interest in being ‘fair’, even when it is being fair to the very people (almost always bw) who got them to that elevated spot in the first place.

    The real power source in this context is wm. Ww have no power, and I really mean that, no power whatsoever beyond what wm allow them to have; and they know this. Hence, the reason why despite all their protestations about how horrible wm are, how they are oppressing them, etc, they still always align themselves with wm when push comes to shove. Their interest is not in knocking wm off the top spot (in a western context), but in joining them there.

    In almost all of the individual examples given here, you would notice that those who put the most effort into demeaning BW were ‘other’ women, not the men from those groups. Ww’s opinions are absolutely and utterly irrelevant when it comes to, well, anything. They are not the ones who really control the media (hence, why they couldn’t ultimately do to Asian women’s public images what they really wanted and tried so hard to do). Those women realised where the power really lay, and acted strategically. The fact is that no matter how much ww whinge, successful, powerful, quality wm with Asian wives were not willing to have their image and general public reputation run down (and also, it was also an insult to them as men for people to try to stereotype their marriages with demeaning and derogatory terms).

    “….. I watch a show caled SNApPED. That show features 95% of White and non Blck women who kill their significant others for a variety of selfish reasons. YET, that doesn’t seem to hurt their prospects at marriage and relationships. WHY? Because people are not going to use crazy WW as the measuring stick for White womanhood. WHY? because WW like other Non Black women are given the ability to be seen as INDIVIDUALS and not by thier group.”

    One thing that is being ignored in this post is that those women, overwhelmingly, still marry the men from within their group. I find it strange that anyone would even make such a complaint, that wm are still marrying ww, despite their bad behaviours, and similarly for other groups of men and women, but that the same is not happening for bw. Who is it that is not marrying these bw? It is bm! If the issue is ir dating, why would you or anyone expect that, as a group, any race of men would by and large, substitute another race group of women for their own? It is in those men’s interest to have the public image of the women in their group to be as high and positive as possible, seeing as in all likelihood, those are the women that are going to end up as their wives, the mothers of their children, etc. No man wants to end up with the town bike; they can only ensure that doesn’t happen by making sure that whatever their behaviour, they are still seen as respectable women. There is a reason Kim Kardashian dated bm. She wanted a man with money, and no successful wm was going to marry her! (She tried it with Nick Lachey, and he was pretty much told to end it, as it would damage his career – and that guy was not a big star by any stretch). When you are talking about bw not getting that same leeway, I am assuming that it was said in respect to non-bm. Why any bw would expect that as a group (because in terms of individual men, you should not expect any different treatment from the men you interact with and allow into your life) these non-bm would collectively give bw some sort of a pass over sketchy behaviour. As a group, they all still overwhelmingly mate with women from their own group, so they have no reason or interest to be doing anything different with bw.

    ”…………. I have yet to see progressive BM sitting around wondering how to change the bad apples of their bunch. You know why? CAUSE THEY DO NOT NEED TO. White women and Non Black women are very well aware of BM’s track record when it comes to relationships, crime and all the other crap that they do. Yet, BM still have managed quite well in the Interracial dating market and have fared better in the media than BW. And they have done so, despite their negative images because NON BLACK WOMEN CHOOSE TO SEE THE BLAKC MEN IN THEIR LIVES AS INDIVIDUALS AND NOT THEIR ENTIRE GROUP.

    This is somewhere, I’m sorry to say, that you are wrong again. These other women did not date (and marry) bm because they “CHOOSE TO SEE THE BLAKC MEN IN THEIR LIVES AS INDIVIDUALS AND NOT THEIR ENTIRE GROUP”. Bw need to understand that most other people are thinking much more strategically than them. But because they aren’t thinking that way, they just assume that the same applies to everyone else. The fact is, the real reason these women were willing to mate with and marry bm was that for those who were not able to get a suitable man from within their own group, for whatever reason, they would opt for a well-to-do bm. For the most part, bm were not ‘taking’ the cream-of-the-crop or the most sought after women from these other groups. These women became more willing to mingle with bm in situations where they could get a certain bm of a certain station that they would not have been able to get from amongst their on group. To try to compare the situation of bm, i.e males, to bw, is not the way to go, as the way that most men interact with women, is different from the way the average woman would interact with men. As long as a man is above average in most other respects, if he is successful and able to comfortably provide for a family (i.e he meets certain masculine traits and benchmarks of manhood), there are enough women out there that would consider him for a mate. If a woman decides to approach it from a masculine perspective, thinking that the same rules should apply for her as they would for the average male, she will most likely come up losing. If what attracts/interests a man about a woman is that she is successful and would be a good provider, there are men who would be interested in her for that, but they would be the males that sensible women would know to stay away from. There are the feminine traits and certain benchmarks of womanhood that a woman would meet/embody that would make her an appealing choice for most men. If some man decides that because it works for a the average woman, it should work for him too, that man will come up losing (which is what many bm out there do, where they think that they should be the prize, particularly when in relationships with bw. They know this too as when they try to date non-bw, they switch up their behaviour to mimic other non-bm because even they know that no sensible woman wants that sort of male).

    Keiota Jones said: “……This whole article is shoving “respectability” down my throat. You keep up talking about the “good” black women vs. the “bad” (I assume you think these women are stereotypes and less deserving of respect and humanity) in a “us” vs. “them” fashion. It’s kind of like you have the same problem processing images of black women that those who judge you have. Why can’t you look at the women you refer to as stereotypes and see that they are just women…. Like you………

    Respect is earned, not handed out like bonbons at a kids party. So yes, some women (and men) are far less deserving of respect than others (and I suspect you know this, hence the reason you decided to throw in the word ‘humanity’, so that you can quietly imply that if anyone is giving less respect to someone due to their own actions, they are somehow denying them their humanity. Slick). If you want to behave in a ratchet or uncouth manner, by all means do, but you have no right to dictate how others perceive you or the opinions they form of you due to the things you say and do. Bw (and bp in general) like to complain about this or that negative stereotype, saying they should be judged on the content of their character and not the colour of their skin. Yet, when they ARE judged on the content of their character (your actions and words are the best tool to be used to determine one’s character), these same folks complain about being judged at all! It’s like the whore wanting to get the same respect that the soccer mom gets, or the small time crook wanting the same respect as the doctor, or the rude obnoxious person wanting and expecting people to think as highly of them as they do of the polite and friendly person. IT IS INSANITY! Yet folks still wonder why no one takes Black folks seriously!

    Lulu said: “ When it comes down to it, it’s really just becomes an excuse for ratchet people to whine about the social consequences they face for ratchet behavior.

    I think you pretty much just hit the nail on the head here!

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    • Neecy
      Dec 06, 2014 @ 03:15:38

      JALILMASTER SAID:
      The real power source in this context is wm. Ww have no power, and I really mean that, no power whatsoever beyond what wm allow them to have; and they know this.

      NEECY:
      WW have no power? LMAO. O KKKKKK. WW have PLENTY POWER! They damn sure have a lot more power than Black women! In more ways than one.

      There is no incentive for White men (on their own) to consistently shove negative images of BW down the throats of the masses other than to appease their women. the media CATERS to White women because they have the NUMBERS to affect the bottom line. THAT is power. The power to threaten to not support something if they are not shown in favorable light, or if too many “attractive desirable” BW are getting air time. Asian women and WM date in high numbers. There are very few images of Asian women in the media despite the large numbers of them dating WM. Why do you think that is?

      Do you think WM actually have a vested interest in keeping attractive BW out of the media and in roles where they as men would benefit from all beauty from all races of women? NO. They understand that WHITE WOMEN have the larger numbers and dollar volume to affect the bottom line of many entities and they do not want to upset that apple cart. SO yes, THAT is power. Maybe not to you, but certainly to me. if anyone can DEMAND directly or indirectly what they want to see, and get their wish, they have power.

      JALILMASTER SAID:
      The fact is that the only people who are talking that fairness mess are bw.

      ME:
      Seriouly you guys need to stop with this nonsense putting thoughts and words into people’s mouth. NO ONE HERE is asking anyone to be “fair”. This post is not about EXPECTING anyone to be fair. Its about pointing out who benefits AND WHY, and THUS why BW have been fighting an uphill battle. Because everyone is looking out for their OWN BEST INTERESTS. And I am clearly telling BW to do the same.

      I’m not an idiot. i am clearly aware that BW are not in the position we are in because people want to be fair. Please with the insulting of my intelligence. There may be other BW who are not in the KNOW, who believe this. I aint one of them and my posts on this blog CLEARLY has shown that.

      JALILMASTER:
      One thing that is being ignored in this post is that those women, overwhelmingly, still marry the men from within their group. I find it strange that anyone would even make such a complaint, that wm are still marrying ww, despite their bad behaviours,

      ME:
      LOL ONCE AGAIN you missed the boat. Let me help you get on track.

      The point in me bringing that up was not all that you just wrote. THE EXAMPLE I USED was to Simply to say that crazy WW are never the standard or measure for White womanhood. That WW never have to answer to or worry about the crazies in thier gender and race hampering their ability to be seen as individuals. PERIOD.

      Once again. I am NOT an IDIOT. I clearly understand that most men marry and date the women of their own race. this was not about WW and WM dating nad marrying. nor was it about me “whining” about WM marrying WW. it had NADA to do with the point I was making. The point was that WW never have to carry the burdens of the Crazies in thier gender and NEITHER SHOULD BLACK WOMEN. period.

      JALILMASTER SAID:
      This is somewhere, I’m sorry to say, that you are wrong again.

      ME:
      NO. There is not “right” or “wrong” in this discussion. This is all SUBJECTIVE observations. You are no more “right” than anyone here. So please tone down the condesending attitude as if you are all knowing.

      JALILMASTER:
      The fact is,

      ME:
      NO, your OPINION IS…..

      JALILMASTER:
      the real reason these women were willing to mate with and marry bm was that for those who were not able to get a suitable man from within their own group, for whatever reason, they would opt for a well-to-do bm.

      ME:
      For some yes. But how the heck do you know what or why every Non BW is with a BM? Some may just like BM and they way they look. Some might just have happened to fall in love with a BM. There are a lot of different reasons why a Non BW may date and choose a BM. it aint just YOUR reason or what you want it to be.

      JALIMASTER:
      If you want to behave in a ratchet or uncouth manner, by all means do, but you have no right to dictate how others perceive you or the opinions they form of you due to the things you say and do.

      NEECY:
      This post is not about acting in a “ratchet manner”. This post is not about defending “ratchet behvaiors of BW”. This post is not about “having no right to dictate how others perceive you”

      Like

  15. Neecy
    Dec 05, 2014 @ 23:31:25

    OK I CAN’T TAKE IT ANYMORE!

    LOL

    I am temporarily closing the comments in this post because I’m getting fed up with people misconstruing and going totally off the reservation on what this post is about.

    I am making a short new post to clarify and outline EXACTLY what this post is is and isn’t about.

    I can take people disagreeing with me BUT only if they first CLEARLY UNDERSTAND what I’m even saying.

    It’s clear I’ve either not articulated my points clearly because people are going waaaay off the reservation and completely missing the point I’m making.

    Please see new post to get CLEAR on what I’m saying.

    Once I feel people have actually READ and understood my point I will re open the comments. As if right now SOME of y’all are just OFF TRACK. LOL

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