HEAR YE! HEAR YE!

Let me make something clear about this blog. This is a blog of IDEAS on how BW can better improve their lives. This AINT a blog about who is right, me telling you how you should think and act and that my opinions are the holy grail of truth.

 

And I expect the same from commenters here. To be RESPECTFUL that others aren’t always at the same level of enlightenment that you are, and may possibly not see your way as the ONLY way.

 

If we all had the ANSWERS and it was easy to figure this all out, BW would be running the world right now. And well, BW aint running the world. So that means WE DON’T have all the answers. Every person here who participates on THIS BLOG is learning, growing and offering their own VIEWS and O-P-I-N-I-O-N-S on how we can get there.

 

I’m pretty much gonna assume the BW who participate on this blog all have the ultimate same goal of wanting the BEST for ALL BW. We aint all going to have the PERFECT ANSWERS on how BW can get there, but nonetheless, if you are a participant on this blog then it’s because YOU WANT THE BEST FOR BW and want to offer your own VIEWS and O-P-I-N-I-O-N-S on how BW can succeed in doing so.

 

We can agree to disagree. We can debate. We can offer new ways of seeing things.

 

But what we WILL NOT DO HERE AT *NEEEEEEEEECYS* NEST is bludgeon each other over the heads with CONDESCENDING holier than thou attitudes, I’m right and you’re wrong talk.

 

THAT will not happen here.

 

This blogs goal is to help offer ways I feel BW can improve their lives. And anything I say is within that context. Unless I am afflicted with Dr. Jeckl , Mr. Hyde disease (which last I checked I wasn’t) that’s pretty much all this blog is about – BW BETTERING THEMSELVES AND GETTING THE BEST LIVES THEY CAN.

 

I say that to say – I AINT THE DAMN ENEMY! So anything I say that you are confused about, UNDERSTAND it’s ALWAYS coming from a place of support, passion and love for seeing BW in the world do better and get the best life has to offer.

 

I may not always articulate it in the best of ways, but understand that is the blogs purpose, and THIUS my purpose.

 

I may not be at the same level of enlightenment some others are, or rather I may simply have a different POV on how I see things.

 

So. I am gonna make this real easy for everyone.

 

I am stepping away from the term BWE (Black women Empowerment) in terms of my goals, mission and this blog. Neecy’s Nest MOVING FORWARD is a blog and safe place for Black women to converse about how we can progress as a group.

 

This way, anything I do or say moving forward, is not under the TITLE, BANNER of Black woman empowerment. It will simply be MY OWN THOUGHTS, IDEAS AND POV on the matter.

I appreciate the knowledge and support and varying degrees the discussions have to offer.

 

But I will not tolerate condensing attitudes, holier than thou and I’m right and you are wrong. NOPE!

 

I realize that some people may leave. I’m okay with that. For those that stay, I want this to be a nice, safe and fun place to visit and to EXPLORE ideas on how BW can do better in life.

 

I do not claim to be the GURU on BW or anything for that matter. And I will not be pushed in a corner on my own blog because people are determined to make me see their way or the highway.

 

That is all……

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272 Comments (+add yours?)

  1. Social butterfly
    Dec 11, 2014 @ 17:18:44

    Well said & I will continue to support you. Thank you for all you done.

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  2. jazzyfae45
    Dec 11, 2014 @ 18:26:23

    I hear you Neecy. And I’ll continue to read, comment, and support your blog:) I really don’t blame you for moving away from the BWE tag. I’ve noticed a few other blogs have been doing it the past couple years too, your not the only one. As good as BWE sounds it can be a bit limiting. That’s not to take away the good it has done though don’t get me wrong. But I get it. Keep up the great work:)

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  3. neurochick
    Dec 12, 2014 @ 07:49:38

    @Neecy:

    Whoa, I read those posts from last night I assume. The funny thing is I totally forgot who Danielle Watts was. I was pretty neutral on her. Personally, I think the woman needs some kind of mental help.

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  4. Brenda55
    Dec 12, 2014 @ 11:15:22

    “I am stepping away from the term BWE (Black women Empowerment) in terms of my goals, mission and this blog.”

    Jaw………meet floor.

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  5. HomesteadGlamourGirl
    Dec 12, 2014 @ 18:41:11

    Well this is an interesting development.

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  6. Olu
    Dec 12, 2014 @ 20:01:36

    Neecy, just wanted to let you know that I respect your views and I have learned from all the opinions I’ve read on your blogs, whether I agreed with them or not. I value your voice and platform and wanted to let you know that you’re appreciated.

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  7. lunanoire
    Dec 13, 2014 @ 03:30:01

    Neecy, thank you for this blog. It captures well the issues faced by progressive women, especially those who have not achieved all of their goals in life. It is a refreshing middle ground between mainstream messages given to black women (that we deserve nothing good in life and need to mule for others) and some messages from pro-BW bloggers that suggest that we need to twist ourselves into pretzels just to get a man. Also, one of the problems with dealing with problems is that beginners need specific, explicit advice, while experts understand, and too often give, general advice.

    I know that my introverted personality plays a role, but BWE feels like a lonely road, and it is clear that many people will choose maladaptive behaviors just to fit in and have others to socialize with. It’s the metaphorical equivalent of eating your vegetables before figuring out cooking techniques to make them tasty. In the long run, it leads to living your best life, but the transition can be rocky.

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  8. Evia
    Dec 13, 2014 @ 08:31:37

    At this juncture, I think it’s important to mention that I never coined the term “Black Women’s Empowerment” or BWE. I don’t actually know who did. I’ve noticed though I’m often given credit for being one of the key pioneers of the BWE “movement” even though I’ve always referred to my writings as either BWIR or COMMON SENSE or UCC (uncommonly common sense). Common Sense covers various realms of life. I’ve always viewed BWIR as just ONE avenue that AAbw could/should take to exercise their general COMMON SENSE at this point in time IF they want to marry and marry well.

    However, some “distortioners” have claimed that I’m saying that BWE = BWIR ONLY. That’s what THEY think/said–not me. NEVER. I will not accept responsibility for the itty bitty brain power of other people.

    Yes, I’m coining the term “DISTORTIONER” (lol) in this context to mean a person who either deliberately distorts a message to slander another person or sometimes a distortioner distorts a message because they just don’t “GET IT” or they may only get a part of it and they run with that one part for their own personal reasons. For ex., I’ve noticed that some distortioners don’t even have “hooks” in their brain or in their experience to hang certain vital life-saving info that we’ve discussed on.

    MANY AABW are grossly either totally unexposed or way underexposed to key factors in their lives that keep them from making progress or are outright sinking them. They clearly are not able or not willing to connect certain dots. And while they’re sinking, they’re screaming for help. So, I’ve tried to help some of them to connect certain dots. However, many AAbw will fight you even when you’re trying to keep them from drowning.

    Meaning–I’ve noticed that when key info is pointed out to numerous AAbw, they become argumentative and some will actually have tantrums. . I’m experiencing this now offline. YET, if you don’t share info with them, many of them then BLAME other bw (like me) for being STINGY or for not giving them vital life-enhancing info. So, I’ve done what my grandmother used to say: She said, “Just tell them, ANYWAY.”

    RE “BWE,” It was humorous though when someone sent me a link to a whining bm hater’s site where he has a pic of me and Darren sitting atop a BLISTERING article he wrote about BWE with over 1,000 earth-scorching comments ripping me primarily but also other BWE writers. Apparently to him, I’m some sort of queen bee of BWE. Geez!

    And I don’t believe for a second that this bm hates me. I know that this denigrating of bw in general is because they’re terrified that the geese who are feeding them by laying the bulk of the golden eggs just might escape or stop the egg-laying. Those golden eggs are also what those bm characters, in particular, are DEPENDING on to enable THEM to escape into the arms of otherness. Remember I said in another comment that a man’s tribe is his strength. That’s real simple. So for AAbm, it is AAbw who are his key source of strength because it’s AA black females who comprise millions of mules and the fiercest soldiers in his tribe. NOT other AAbm. So, it’s AA women who are the key players in his tribe. Without that strength from them, he won’t be able to breathe, let alone escape into the arms of otherness and he KNOWS that.

    My main point is that I’m a COMMON SENSE writer and Common Sense has a very high probability of virtually ALWAYS empowering any individual who practices it. DUH! But I did NOT create Common Sense. I’m not THAT old. LOL I’m just sharing what I know to be true and I KNOW it to be true because I’ve lived it and I’ve seen it materialize around me–from start to finish–so many times. Not only that, but I’ve read about Common Sense being of immense value down through the ages. For ex., having balance in one’s life is Common Sense. Marrying well or marrying a CQLL man is Common Sense and has proven to be of unfailing value to ANY woman. Etc, etc. Controlling food intake and burning more calories than you consume is Common Sense to avoid being overweight.

    So I’ve NEVER declared myself a BWE writer. It’s others who’ve done that and it stuck. Once again: I’m a Common Sense writer and again, if/when bw or anyone practices common sense, it does empower them. However, a few years ago, when unscrupulous others began to hitch themselves to BWE and then distort portions of my Common Sense & BWIR message, I went on record on my Ezine to disconnect myself from being called a “BWE” writer. I’m not going to sit idly by and be connected to unscrupulous distortioners.

    So, I’ve never declared myself a “Guru” or anyone’s leader. I’ve never wanted to be anyone’s leader; I’ve always sought PARTNERS. And my main frustration with AAbw is that the partnership pickings among them seem to be slim. Instead, I find that the overwhelming most of AAbw want a leader or someone to tell them what to do.

    So, Neecy, after this thread, I won’t comment here anymore. That is, unless, someone is mentioning me or any part of my message and particularly if they’re distorting something I’ve said–which may sometimes be done because they simply don’t “GET IT.” (Most readers here know the key components of Evia’s Common Sense and BWIR messages by now),

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    • Khadija Nassif
      Dec 13, 2014 @ 18:15:57

      Evia,

      You said:

      —“MANY AABW are grossly either totally unexposed or way underexposed to key factors in their lives that keep them from making progress or are outright sinking them. They clearly are not able or not willing to connect certain dots. And while they’re sinking, they’re screaming for help. So, I’ve tried to help some of them to connect certain dots. However, many AAbw will fight you even when you’re trying to keep them from drowning.

      Meaning–I’ve noticed that when key info is pointed out to numerous AAbw, they become argumentative and some will actually have tantrums. . I’m experiencing this now offline. YET, if you don’t share info with them, many of them then BLAME other bw (like me) for being STINGY or for not giving them vital life-enhancing info. So, I’ve done what my grandmother used to say: She said, “Just tell them, ANYWAY.””—

      Yep, that mirrors my own experiences both online and offline. Which is why I’ve mostly stopped sharing information with other AABW. In real life, I only share information with those AABW who are my peers. In terms of speaking in public online, I only speak on AABW’s issues when I feel absolutely compelled to say something. And then I only say just enough so that my conscience is clear. Because: Horse. Water. Drink. Free will.

      You said:

      —“RE “BWE,” It was humorous though when someone sent me a link to a whining bm hater’s site where he has a pic of me and Darren sitting atop a BLISTERING article he wrote about BWE with over 1,000 earth-scorching comments ripping me primarily but also other BWE writers. Apparently to him, I’m some sort of queen bee of BWE. Geez!”—

      LOL! I’ve seen that same “article.” Oh yeah, that negro and other BM parasites are scurred—VERY scurred. And they should be scared. Because the juiciest, most resource-prone AABW (that many of these BM intended to use as host bodies, and as stepping stones into the arms of nonblack women) are walking away from them and the dead AA community. What will be left behind for BM parasites to suck dry are the already-drained, dying host bodies like this Black woman.
      http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ala-brings-donations-hungry-granny-caught-stealing-article-1.2043297

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      • Evia
        Dec 13, 2014 @ 19:48:02

        Khadija, SMH– I tell ya, I had to laugh to keep from crying about this woman. Such a tragedy! And she’s ONLY 47–but with her grown daughters and their keeeeds living off her.

        This is so DISTURBING? What in the world is she going to do when she’s 57 or 67 or 77? It would be so easy to send her money, but sadly, no amount of money is going to do this woman any good. *Sigh* In today’s society, there is NO solution to situations like this.

        And she’s from Alabama–just like me. Things have sho nuff changed for SOME of us. Without any doubt, this woman didn’t have a grandmother or kinfolks like mine! I’m so thankful because if a typical AAbw doesn’t have someone to give her life-enhancing info at certain times and jerk her straight at critical times in her life, this could easily happen to a whole lot of us.

        IMO, and I know this sounds harsh to some, but those young kids need to be taken away from their mothers NOW and not allowed to see their moms again until the children are grown. And the daughters need to be “fixed” so they can’t have any more children. Those children are definitely in danger of being molested or of even being sold for sex. This happens a lot. When some people get desperate enough, they will sell anything or any body.

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        • Khadija Nassif
          Dec 14, 2014 @ 09:10:52

          Evia,

          As far as I’m concerned, it’s too late to salvage the children born to those type of women because, quite frankly, there really aren’t any good foster homes to put them in. My grandparents took in a neighborhood teenage girl’s bastard baby and raised him as my uncle in the 1950s. All without looking for, expecting, or wanting any sort of government reimbursement. Even though they were poor themselves. They simply didn’t like the way the girl (who was a high school friend of my aunt) was neglecting the baby, and told her that if she didn’t want the baby (which her actions showed) then give him to them. And she did.

          But that’s very old school. By contrast, the vast majority of the modern day AA foster parents I saw while working in family court were in it for the child welfare subsidies. They didn’t care about those already-emotionally-damaged children. They were just warehousing them to get a government check.

          With the economy the way it is, that Welfare Queen With Litters Of Bastard Babies & Bastard Grandbabies lifestyle is on its way out. It will also come crashing down as the number of extreme weather incidents like Katrina and Sandy increase.

          What’ll probably eventually happen is that governments will offer sterilization in exchange for continued receipt of free government welfare checks past bastard baby #1 or 2. I wouldn’t be surprised if they also started sterilizing BM convicts (who spawn many of these bastard babies) in exchange for early release from prison.

          Anyway you slice it, African-Americans’ Mass Bastard Baby lifestyle is NOT sustainable. I heard about this news story from the Black Women With Other Brothers Facebook page. I tend to agree with that blogger’s assessment that this mass bastard baby lifestyle is akin to a mass mental illness among AAs. Because many AAs keep acting *perpetually surprised* by the utterly predictable negative outcomes—not just for the Bastard Baby Factory women, but for entire neighborhoods, communities and the entire AA race—created by the bastard baby lifestyle.

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          • Evia
            Dec 14, 2014 @ 12:43:51

            Khadija, re:

            As far as I’m concerned, it’s too late to salvage the children born to those type of women because, quite frankly, there really aren’t any good foster homes to put them in.

            So true. And so many AAs are SO hypocritical. They march, tear down, get on the internet and stand up in podiums or chase after the cameras yelling that “Black Lives Matter” when the lives of those 2 little children in that article and hundreds of thousands or millions like them do NOT matter to these hypocrites. Why isn’t Al Sharpton yelling about them? Everybody reading this knows that the lives of those 2 children are going down the drain and fast. I know I’m not supposed to say that. I know I’m supposed to be as “perpetually surprised” as the next black person as those children get messed over and end up becoming a menace to society or fall into some other negative statistics in about 10 years. It’s terrible to say this, but the fact is that if the wm who took them the groceries had attacked one of those kids–especially if the child is a black male child, then it would have been ON! Rev. Al might be headed for Alabama right now.

            But to be fair to Rev. Al. He can’t make any changes by himself. He’s just a mouthpiece. Where are the black MALE workers? We all know that the overwhelming most of those black males out there with him are nothing but hot air. They’re not willing to do any actual work or follow through to make changes. So, as much as some folks criticize him, I think he’s done his part. We ALL should do our part. No ONE person should have to be the heavy lifter. But, this too, is a pattern. Whenever anyone black comes up with a plan or starts talking about the AA populace making the necessary IN-HOUSE changes, AAs get REAL quiet. For ex., I still want to see how many of the numerous readers and commenters who sound off in these forums about how this and that ain’t right and about how much they appreciate the information they gain from these forums–are actually going to ‘walk the walk’ by supporting the BWE Challenge.

            That being said, there does need to be a bunch more vendors and I think that Homestead Glamour Girl is working on that, so that will gradually happen if this challenge is supported. I personally have already bought from practically everyone there either recently or before.

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          • Mochachoc
            Dec 14, 2014 @ 13:18:47

            But but but do you have to call them bastard babies? I know you’re not one to mince your words but but but!!! Born-out-of-wedlock?

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          • Khadija Nassif
            Dec 14, 2014 @ 14:21:46

            Mochachoc,

            But they ARE bastard babies. In fact, until recent years, the area of the law surrounding such births was called “bastardy.” As in, among other things, “bastardy proceedings.”
            http://thelawdictionary.org/bastardy-proceedings/

            AND many of the non-AA citizens of the U.S.—who are more likely to have normal family structures with fathers, and who have their children within marriage—are calling them bastard babies. Because that’s what they are, and because many non-AAs who have normal families are FED UP with having their tax dollars wasted on subsidizing AAs’ bastard baby lifestyle. This is invisible and shocking to many modern day fatherless AAs because such persons tend to surround themselves with other AAs who give pleasing names to ugly lifestyle choices.

            Too many modern day AAs are TOTALLY out of touch with how many (if not most) of the rest of the people in the U.S. feel about various issues. It’s dangerous to be that oblivious. Especially when one is depending on these other people’s tax dollars to subsidize one’s irresponsible lifestyle choices.

            Part of what has gone horribly wrong among the masses of modern day fatherless AAs is that we give pleasing names to ugly circumstances. Which is why (when I worked in family court) I encountered so many AAs with bastard children who were shocked to discover that their spawn’s level of automatic legal entitlements are NOT the same as those of legitimate children born during a marriage. It’s why I encountered so many AA baby daddy sperm donors who were shocked to discover that legally they were strangers to their bastard babies unless and until there was a government-issued piece of paper (such as a court order entering a finding of paternity, etc.) saying they had any legally recognized connection to their spawn. The same way so many modern day fatherless AAs are shocked to discover that shacking up doesn’t mean anything at all in many jurisdictions.

            All because we stopped calling situations what they are.

            Meanwhile, there’s a legal presumption that a husband is the father or any and all children born during his marriage. Legitimate children are assumed to be entitled to a slice of their father’s estate, benefits, etc.

            The people whose ears burn at the term “bastard” also have burning ears when anybody makes a distinction or mentions legitimate versus illegitimate children. These same people have burning ears when anybody mentions born out of wedlock. The only thing that pleases such persons is for folks to pretend that all circumstances of birth are equal—even though reality consistently proves that they are NOT. Which I believe is the underlying origin of that so-called “respectability politics” foolishness.

            I’ve seen the damage these delusions cause. I refuse to play along with giving pleasing, soothing names to lifestyle choices that are literally the death of the AA collective.

            I’m talking about the fools who CHOSE this bastard baby lifestyle, not women and girls whose pregnancies were the result of rape and/or molestation. I’m talking about fools which most likely include the foolish, hungry 47-year-old grandbaby mama featured in that ridiculous news story. Based on what I’ve read thus far about her, I don’t feel sorry for her. And I don’t want my tax dollars wasted on subsidizing fools like her or her adult children. Because the odds are that her current circumstance is the logical, predictable end result of what most likely has been 30+ years of making idiotic decisions.

            Heartland America has LONG since been tired of subsidizing irresponsible AAs and their modern day bastard baby lifestyle. Many (if not most) AAs stay *perpetually surprised* about how the rest of America feels about us and our bastard baby lifestyles. We stay “perpetually surprised” because we live and browse online in echo chambers where everybody has agreed to only say what we find pleasing. We don’t do ourselves any favors by giving pleasing names to ugly lifestyle choices.

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            • Mochachoc
              Dec 14, 2014 @ 17:29:27

              I’m glad you provided further clarification. I am fully aware that the legal status of children born out of wedlock is incomparable to those born within marriage. I am also thankful you made it clear you were talking about those who actively chose this lifestyle. My focus was on the children who are completely innocent. Bastard is a derogatory term here in the UK and is usually used as a vicious insult today. I know nothing of US usage, so perhaps I shouldn’t have winced and commented.

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            • Khadija Nassif
              Dec 14, 2014 @ 18:10:34

              Mochachoc,

              “Bastard” is also a derogatory, insulting term in American usage. A term that is still in current use among many non-AA Americans. That word has become invisible, archaic and shocking to modern day fatherless AAs because we’ve normalized the bastard baby lifestyle with soothing, easy-on-the-ears euphemisms. And AAs tend to stay in echo chambers.

              I’m deliberately saying it in this online context because too many modern day fatherless AAs are dangerously out of touch with how many non-AA Americans feel about the creation of bastard babies. And dangerously out of touch with how many non-AA Americans feel about having money taken out of their paychecks to support AAs’ bastard baby lifestyles.

              It’s dangerous because these same clueless, fatherless modern day AAs depend on non-AA Americans to subsidize their bastard babies—and themselves after they drop into poverty with litters of children they can’t afford.

              Reality check #1: Innocent or not, non-AA Americans have grown increasingly enraged over the years with being forced to subsidize bastard babies and AAs’ bastard baby lifestyles.

              Reality check #2: AA bastard babies are no longer perceived as “innocent babies” by increasing numbers of non-AA Americans. They are increasingly perceived as:

              (a) At best, useless extra mouths to feed who will inevitably grow up to be welfare-recipient drains on society; and/or

              (b) At worst, mutant ticking bombs who will inevitably grow up to be violent criminals.

              So that whole “sympathy for the innocent AA baby born out of wedlock” gambit is becoming obsolete. AAs better wake up and smell the coffee. Non-AA Americans are fed up with subsidizing AA bastard babies.

              I don’t mean just White Americans. I mean everybody else in the U.S. who values having a normal family structure based on marriage, including various so-called people of color–like Asian Americans, immigrant Muslims, Africans, and many Latinos.

              I’ll add that folks in your UK neck of the woods are also apparently getting sick of subsidizing bastard babies:

              http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2873882/Child-benefit-capped-just-TWO-children-hints-Iain-Duncan-Smith-Plan-Tory-manifesto-save-significant-money.html

              All around the industrialized world as economies continue to decline, taxpayers with normal family structures are going to increasingly lose whatever patience they used to have with money being taken out of their paychecks to subsidize irresponsible lifestyle choices.

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              • HomesteadGlamourGirl
                Dec 14, 2014 @ 19:57:54

                All of this, is of course, correct.
                Most other people understand basic reality, but when you point out the facts about oow and other destructive behaviors to many AAs, all they want to talk about is “judging.” or “what about these kids, they are here now and it doesn’t help to talk about this stuff and hurt their feelings.”
                To which I always say, “This is not about feelings or the kids who are already here. I’m trying to advise women who DON’T currently have any oow children NOT to go down that road, and save themselves alot of pain and trouble.” People are not trying to hear that though.
                Anyway, this has not yet even begun to come to a head. When it does it is going to get very ugly. People with functioning, intact families and strong alliances/networks will close ranks. Everyone else will find out how societies have functioned across millennia. Our modern, Western societies with “safety nets” “subsidies” and “institutionalized social support” are an anomaly. When those things no longer exist you will need your family, friends and neighbors like never before in modern memory.

                @ Mochachoc, “bastard” is not a neutral term in the U.S. either. We don’t usually use it because it is “mean”. However, among cultures/classes where it it is not the norm, saying a kid is “born out of wedlock” carries the same stigma. People are just too polite to use the word. Khadija is just being all the way raw with it.

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              • lunanoire
                Dec 14, 2014 @ 20:19:49

                It’s crazy that many people on the OOW crazy train consider themselves Christians, when 1 Timothy 5:8 states, “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.”

                In my interpretation of this verse, OOW fathers are worse than infidels for abandoning their kids, and OOW mothers are as well for not providing a stable family structure from the get-go.

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              • Khadija Nassif
                Dec 14, 2014 @ 21:33:15

                Homestead Glamour Girl,

                You said:

                —“Anyway, this has not yet even begun to come to a head. When it does it is going to get very ugly. People with functioning, intact families and strong alliances/networks will close ranks. Everyone else will find out how societies have functioned across millennia. Our modern, Western societies with “safety nets” “subsidies” and “institutionalized social support” are an anomaly.”—

                THIS is exactly my point. When the rest of non-AA American citizens—of all colors—who have functioning, intact families start seriously closing ranks, they’re going to close ranks AGAINST modern day fatherless AAs—many of whom (like the 47-year-old AA grandbaby mama in the news story I mentioned) depend on tax-payer funded “safety nets” and “subsidies.” These other Americans who value and have intact, normal families already deeply resent having their tax dollars used to finance litters of AA bastard babies.

                You mentioned a very nuance that might help communicate this: In terms of stigma, the phrase “born out of wedlock” = “bastard baby” to people whose cultures value intact families with legitimate children. Because whatever term is used, it’s considered sordid, lowlife behavior as far as they’re concerned. They just refrain from saying the word “bastard” around most AAs because they know the bulk of modern day AAs are bastards who would lose their minds if they heard themselves and their illegitimate spawn described as such.

                Anyhoo, regardless of how oblivious AAs choose to be, other non-AA Americans of all colors with intact, normal families have already begun closing ranks against the masses of fatherless AA bastards and the chaos, crime, waste of taxpayer dollars and dysfunction that fatherless AA bastards represent. Which is part of why I wasn’t surprised by these recent grand jury decisions. Expect more of the same in the future—no matter how many non-AA “people of color” are on these panels.

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              • Mochachoc
                Dec 15, 2014 @ 01:49:37

                I hope it’s clear I’m not defending choosing to have children out of wedlock. And I agree a reality check is needed. Sadly, many of these children do grow up to become a menace. The OOW epidemic needs to end. However, I’m glad people don’t openly call these children bastards.

                btw child benefit is paid to all mothers regardless of income and marital status. Those on other welfare benefits have the child benefit deducted.

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                • DiraD
                  Dec 15, 2014 @ 06:07:01

                  Historically, bastard children were prohibited from joining clubs, organizations and from holding certain leadership positions. Hence, as door after door slammed in their faces, bastards would learn earlier on their inferior circumstances.

                  Old school AA society used to implement similar restrictions on bastards. If you were a bastard, often, you were prohibited from being a preacher or deacon. Many AA organizations either outright banned bastards or prohibited them from holding leadership positions.

                  Again, in old school AA society, shot gun weddings were enforced or bastards were adopted by relatives. My uncle got a woman pregnant when he was in his early 20s. When my grandfather found out, after having strong words, he took his son to the girl’s house to make wedding arrangements. Back then, the men were expected to take responsibility for their actions. The men weren’t defended or excused from their behavior.

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                • Khadija Nassif
                  Dec 15, 2014 @ 07:12:14

                  Mochachoc,

                  You said, “btw child benefit is paid to all mothers regardless of income and marital status. Those on other welfare benefits have the child benefit deducted.”

                  For now. That’s how this operates for now. I hope nobody with any sense in the UK (or the rest of Western Europe) is counting on that continuing to operate like that forever. Mochachoc, I know you know better, but for the AA Baby Mama Brigade members who are stuck on stupid and silently lurking:

                  When politicians, voters, and political parties start talking about these sorts of policies, they’re ALWAYS directed at a specific category of persons these voters and politicians have in mind. Even though unintended “others” might also get caught up in the effects of these policies. So, when folks are talking about reducing welfare and child benefits, they’re NOT envisioning cutting benefits from [presumed respectable] married women with legitimate children. They’re looking to cut benefits from baby mamas with litters of bastard babies.

                  Other factors to keep in mind are that these Western countries with generous welfare benefits intended these benefits for their OWN native citizens. NOT for the bastard children or bastard grandchildren of nonwhite immigrants. It’s not wise to assume that White Americans and White Western Europeans are going to continue subsidizing Black bastard babies. Especially not when economies are tightening.

                  It’s not wise to assume that White Western Europeans (because White Eastern Europeans never pretended to welcome nonwhites into their countries) are going to keep grinning, skinning and welcoming nonwhite immigrants and their descendants in their midst as economies contract and these White folks themselves start struggling economically. Just look at the rise of Golden Dawn in Greece.

                  Fantasy Island needs to be nuked.

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                  • HomesteadGlamourGirl
                    Dec 15, 2014 @ 12:18:14

                    I’m sure some of you have heard of Fernando Aguirre, known by his handle, Ferfal. He got semi-famous by blogging about how he coped during and after Argentina’s economic collapse.
                    I heard an interview where he expressed disbelief at the numbers of people who became homeless in the U.S. due to our economic issues. He said (I’m paraphrasing here) “Don’t these people have any family?”
                    If you run up on hard times, do you have family/close friends (honest and dependable) with whom you can double (or triple) up if necessary in housing and share expenses? Can any among you grow/preserve food, do simple home/auto/clothing repairs, have the knowledge to attend to minor injuries and illnesses?
                    If the answer is no, you need to get on that, now. The time to build a network is BEFORE you need it.

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      • DiraD
        Dec 15, 2014 @ 06:11:36

        I was embarrassed by the pictures of this woman. Did she have to look so unkempt and pathetic? My paternal grandmother was a sharecropper and managed to never look a hot mess in photos

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        • Khadija Nassif
          Dec 15, 2014 @ 07:16:36

          I had the same reaction. This foolish woman is in my age group, and I was extremely annoyed to see her looking like that while receiving guests and having her photo taken.

          Utterly ridiculous and totally lacking in self-respect.

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        • Lynn
          Dec 15, 2014 @ 08:46:01

          Not to beat a dead horse, but did you notice the baby in the last picture playing with a bottle of bleach on the floor?!? With a police officer in the house! Talk about a neglect charge…..

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  9. Elle (@celleblossom)
    Dec 13, 2014 @ 11:18:36

    I guess I’m in the dark, in that I did not know that it was all that serious.
    I really did perceived certain things to simply be disagreements.I say all this with no intention to invalidate your feelings or perspective.

    I’m passionate about the lives of black women individually and maybe one day collectively becoming better.That’s it.I have no interest,nor do I benefit from, hating people here,downing people etc. I don’t get power from trying to control anyone’s thoughts.Again I can be passionate about my stance in that I label certain things stupid/non beneficial etc…. (like joining the anti black woman crowd against black women who already have several “nails in their coffin”,who we don’t EVER have to worry about being let off too easily,getting off scot free or being supported in any major way (for the record this applies to some black women who are NOT on this forum)
    … that I think are, but as far as me bludgeoning people.This was never my intent.

    I have never felt the BWE messaging to be too rigid. Evia Khadija Faith others are NOT my parents or my good sense.I greatly respect their work.
    I respect yours too. I believe that you ALL have stated over and over that in spite of your opinions or beliefs reasonable black women would have to do what benefits them but you all would admonish other black women to be mindful of how certain actions could have a negative effect on black women and our image.There has hardly ever been a time where I personally felt bludgeoned as you put it by anybody when visiting BWE blogs or this one.People have come off passive aggressive at times.I viewed them as being just as passionate as me,agreed to disagree and kept it moving.

    Also to be honest there have been times where I did not considered this blog to be BWE due to some of the content and commenters. No disrespect there. But I always felt that this blog was exactly how you put it up top in this post.You simply sharing your perspective just with some BWE messaging in there.

    Going forward I wish you all the best.Not you only but any other black woman who comments on or reads this blog.

    Take care.

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  10. Elle (@celleblossom)
    Dec 13, 2014 @ 11:22:01

    I will also quickly state that there have been people else where that I “bludgeoned” but they were trolls and black women haters. I don’t perceive any of the women here to be those things.I have no good reason to lash out at any of you.Not that I can think of.

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  11. ImAwake
    Dec 13, 2014 @ 11:36:46

    “beginners need specific, explicit advice, while experts understand, and too often give, general advice” lunanoire

    I was thinking the exact same thing. Like one of those popular long hair websites that has a link for newbies who can get most if not all their initial questions answered without creating a new thread to rehash what has already been hashed out or derail a current thread with beginner’s questions.

    I think One Less Soldier did something similar with a start here/must read links on her blog.

    Sometimes we just need a safe harbor in spite of being flawed and not having all the answers or even understanding the questions (LOL). I thank you, Neecy for allowing us not so perfect human beings a space to conversate.

    Ever since I can remember I prided myself I on being a pro-black on the radical tip muling and caping for everyone and their brother nothing but a bruh sistah soldier when I stumbled onto Evia/Halima/Sara/Gina/Khadijah’s blogs in about 2011 or so. Which in turn led to Neecy/OLS/ElegantBlack/WeirdMarry…blogs in about late 2012/13. In 2013 I bought Evia’s and Khadijah’s books and read them all in a few days. With all this information floating around in my head and paradigm shifts all over the place– with no positive outlets to discuss my sense of cleverness; stupidity; loneliness; support; overwhelmness; hopelessness; hopefulness; clarity and confusion, my mind exploded.

    Hoooold up Black women going for self…..wtf? Real talk I had a mini nervous break down earlier this year. I say I sprang my brain. LOL I can laugh about NOW.

    At one point I felt it was a conspiracy to confuse us as black women to the point that we will be made immobile due to ALL this information. I was going through it. (thank God for discernment and my Daddy)

    I didn’t reach out to anyone via their emails and/or blogs because I thought I needed to get my $#it (pressure to be perfect black female?) together before approaching anyone about my thoughts and feeling in my newfound progressive proAAbw stance (which is what I realized I was seeking to express and support all along. I just was hoping if I supported others they would eventually support US). Neecy’s, Halima, and OLS have been the only ones that I’ve commented on to become apart of this community because I felt that there they were allowing for baby steps to be made. But I feel that is also due to the commenters on these blogs, as well.

    I look at the challenges and solutions for AAbw like five blind persons discussing an elephant based on the parts that they have been exposed to i.e. the tail vs the trunk. I would like to suggest that we keep this in mind that we are discussing thes heavy topics we face as AAbw– our one particular vantage point which doesn’t mean we are right or wrong but maybe just maybe someone has perspective that needs to be taken into consideration with trying to develop the whole picture/elephant .

    In spite of the emotional set back I experience last winter I am still thankful I found ALL the blogs I aforementioned (and a few I didn’t mention).

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  12. Mochachoc
    Dec 14, 2014 @ 05:16:48

    I don’t particularly care what these consciousness raising discussions are called. BWE, common sense, whatever. I care about the message. Evia and Khadija’s ideas slapped me in the face. They shared information I was completely oblivious to. I woke up fast. Through them I discovered other blogs, including yours Neecy. When I stumbled across your blog I thought you were a 20 something (knocked me down with a feather when you revealed your actual age LOL), on-point black woman bringing the message to a younger audience. I value every single blog post and comment I’ve read- even when I don’t agree. I am ever so grateful for the work you have all done. I sometimes wonder if y’all don’t get tired.

    At the risk of sounding inconsistent, I might add that not all opinions have equal merit. Relativism should die.

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  13. DiraD
    Dec 14, 2014 @ 12:55:54

    Hi Neecy,
    Let me first say thank you for all that you do. I really appreciate your efforts to help BW get to a better place. You’ve always maintained a welcoming environment, for which I am grateful.

    I came across BWE in May 2013; I followed a link on a pro BW IR website that lead me to Khadija’s MB site. From her and her comments sections, I found Evia, Neecy, Sara and Halima. At that point, I had long suspected that something was rotten in the BC, but reading Khadija’s analysis was like getting slapped by a 2×4. I had no idea that the situation for AA BW was so dire; worse, I could not argue with the commentary because I knew it was true. After the first sensations of enlightenment and amazement wore off, I felt fear. Fear for myself and my collective. While I still feel fear, I’ve able to channel that fear into something productive, trying to get myself to a place of security and happiness.

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  14. Khadija Nassif
    Dec 14, 2014 @ 15:10:22

    In terms of the BWE movement, I’ll say this (keeping in mind that I’m speaking for myself and myself only):

    Some things give me flashbacks from high school in terms of high school dynamics. Activism and consciousness-raising about life & death issues are not the same thing as being a member of a high school club or a high school clique. Or, at least, it shouldn’t be.

    Lord have mercy on any physically grown woman who’s heart and mind is still immersed in high school dynamics. Lord have mercy, because the adult world won’t. [I’m not saying that anybody here is caught up in this, but these high school dynamics do seem to be an unfortunate undercurrent in many physically grown BW’s online spaces.]

    I care about protecting the integrity of the BWE message and protecting BWE’s victory, not about particular individuals, personalities, or fan clubs.

    From the very beginning, I’ve always responded to various matters based on principles and not personalities, and not individuals. I talked about that exactly 6 years ago in a post titled “Table Talk for Activists, Part 1: Support Principles, NOT Individuals”
    http://muslimbushido.blogspot.com/2008/12/table-talk-for-activists-part-1-support.html

    In reference to the activism and consciousness-raising regarding AA Black women’s issues, ALL I care about is the SUBSTANCE of any given message. This has been my position from the very beginning.

    If I see a message that I believe will advance AABW’s interests, then I will support that message.

    If I see a message that I believe will undermine AABW’s interests, then I will speak out against that message. I want to protect the victory that BWE has already won for AABW. Part of the reason why the masses of modern day AAs have become a politically and economically impotent permanent underclass is because we didn’t protect our ancestors’ victories.

    I don’t talk publicly online as much as I used to because:

    (1) The victory has already been won in terms of the BWE movement. BWE won. BWE consciousness-raising has succeeded with a critical mass of AABW. AA women online and in real life are raising questions and thinking about their OWN interests in ways that never happened pre-BWE.

    (2) I’m busy with my own life. The time I previously spent involved in BWE activism was a sacrifice I was willing to make because I wanted to (and did) pay it forward. Been there, done that, now it’s “me time”—LOL!

    (3) Since BWE has won and AA women are freer to speak their minds online than they were before, some really yucky dynamics have started up among some audience members.

    Some of the readers of various BWE and BW-centric blogs want to project a surrogate mother-child, guru-follower, mentor-mentee relationship onto various BWE, BW-centric, Common Sense, Whatever You Want To Call It BW bloggers—a type of interaction and relationship that I NEVER signed up for.

    Over the years, I’ve quietly watched a disturbing (and thankfully small) minority of the readership projecting all sorts of emotionally-charged, strange dynamics on bloggers who never signed up to be anybody’s guru, mentor, high school clique leader, or Surrogate Mommy They “Rebel” Against. This projection stuff makes my skin crawl. I expected this sort of thing from the BM trolls whose continued exploitation of AABW is threatened by BWE’s victory. But I didn’t anticipate this emotional projection from others.

    I think another aspect of this is that, to put it simply, it would do most folks good to spend less time online. And to spend more time finding like-minded peers in real life. For the reasons I mentioned in an earlier comment on this thread, in real life I only really deal with peers.

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    • HomesteadGlamourGirl
      Dec 21, 2014 @ 17:54:11

      Lol. You and Evia are experiencing one downside to having strong personalities, intelligence, clarity of purpose and good communication skills. All that in one person will cause some to view you as their guru or leader.

      Well, you have both made it clear that that was not a job you wanted.

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      • Khadija Nassif
        Dec 22, 2014 @ 09:24:38

        HomesteadGlamourGirl,

        Guurl, . . . . !!!

        That “transference”-acting out mess with disgruntled readers just proves that there’s a LOT of untreated and/or poorly managed mental health issues among the AA collective. Those folks need to get professional help. To quote part of what the Black Women With Other Brothers writer recently said, “Oversharing is passé. The world isn’t your therapist.”

        Again, such folks should get professional help.

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  15. Evia
    Dec 15, 2014 @ 05:45:45

    On the topic of bastard children, I’ll provide the AA historical view of these children in the deep South.

    And down there, no one minced words, so I knew exactly how they felt. Bastards were often referred to in that way out loud, so it didn’t matter if they heard what people called them. Some of y’all are totally missing the point about this. No one was trying to make bastards feel good. Southern black folks WANTED to make bastards feel bad so that they wouldn’t grow up to produce more bastards, so why would they mince words by using euphemisms like “love child” or OOW?

    No one tried to make convicts feel good either. Respectable people kept their children away from ex-cons totally and completely. Virtually NONE of the ex-cons ever even came back to the area when they got out of the “pen.” Respectable people also didn’t want their children to associate with the children who were “slow” or failed in school either, but those children were usually “pushed” out of those all-black southern schools. But my point is that those children were outright called DUMB and they didn’t seem to get angry. I think they accepted that they might be good with their hands or in some other way, but they were not school material. Respectable people also kept away from lazy, dirty people. They were outright called lazy and filthy to their faces and people with those traits were shunned. If you went out and threw money away on stupid stuff, you were called STUPID to your face. No one cared if you felt bad.

    They WANTED to make you feel bad so you would STOP doing these things.

    Nobody cared IF you got mad about any of this. LOL! So anger was a total waste of time and even if you were an adult, you could easily end up getting your butt whipped about showing anger toward COMMON SENSE things like these. Both MEN and women enforced this code. They knew no one was perfect but without rules and standards, they knew we’d all be wallowing in chaos real fast and then NONE of us would survive or thrive. So if you absolutely couldn’t stop yourself from going against these standards or breaking these rules, you got the heck out of the entire south (since your reputation followed you in those days down there) OR you would be run out or worse.

    Y’all might find this mindboggling, but I had to clean our whole house (make the beds, dust, sweep, straighten up, etc.) EVERY day–even when no company was coming. But everybody did that, so that wasn’t unusual.

    So, no one was confused. I didn’t grow up confused. I’m still not confused. And this had NOTHING to do with being respectable in order to be accepted by whites because one thing that blacks KNEW for sure at that point sure was that no matter what they did, they wouldn’t be accepted by whites. So that was not a goal–AT ALL. But as I said in another comment, being a respectable person has its own GREAT value and is practiced to a great extent all around the world and has been since the beginning of time.

    I’d bet this code that I grew up with or something similar was very likely the case throughout the deep South. Respectable, upright AAs did not allow their children to associate with bastard children. Upright AA women used to carry themselves as the “marrying kind” ONLY and AA men knew that. There’ve always been loose women in every group who allowed themselves to be used as semen receptacles (and a fact of human nature is that MOST men are ALWAYS seeking convenient-to-use free or cheap semen receptacles). So where I grew up, we ALL knew who the semen receptacle girls and women were in the area. They were continuously pointed out by our parents or relatives. I would often hear my male cousins talking about them. I could NOT play with the girls who were the bastard children of semen-receptacle women and they knew that they had to stay away from me. I would have been severely beaten if I’d ever been caught playing with one of them (they were generally called “low-class”). They knew how to stay away from me and other respectable girls too. The most I could do was wave at them from across the road and that was allowed because I was raised to be polite. So we could only smile and wave at each other. I was taught to cross the road if I saw one coming.

    So both sets of us (the low-class and the upright ones) followed the rules and standards that AAs had made to carry on with OUR culture so that AAs could continue to survive and thrive. There were NO or minimal exceptions made because TOO MUCH was at stake. Y’all might call this extreme, but it was southern blacks who spawned the Civil Rights Movement, a movement that permanently lifted the boats of millions of people of all groups in this country and across the world. So they knew something right–at that time.

    At a conference I attended on AAs and marriage last year, it was pointed out that during the period that I was growing up, the AA marriage rate was actually a bit higher than whites. So the current minuscule rate of marriage among AAs has nothing to do with being black, poor, or oppressed.

    I was raised to be a respectable black girl/woman. So when I grew up and was ready for marriage, I presented myself as “the marrying kind.” I did NOT accept excuses from men because too much was AND STILL IS at stake. So, vetting men well and marrying a CQLL man have never been hard for me to accomplish because of the preparation for life that I received. Remember that preparation (in any realm of life) is at least 80% of success.

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    • Khadija Nassif
      Dec 15, 2014 @ 07:29:27

      Evia,

      Things were much the same among AAs in the big city north. My older relatives also did NOT mince words: Stupid girls and loose women were stupid girls and loose women. Jailbirds were jailbirds. “Al-keys” (alcoholics) were al-keys. Dope fiends were dope fiends. Reefer heads were reefer heads. And bastards were bastards. ALL such persons were to be shunned. The end.

      The vast majority of “stupid girls” who got pregnant after being dumb enough to let boys talk them into having sex had to disappear for a while. They could NOT sit up pregnant in high school. They were heavily shunned if they were bold enough to walk around the neighborhood with their pregnant bellies. Typically, these girls went down south “to visit some relatives.” And then either came back without a baby (given up for adoption or taken in by a southern relative). Or they came back with “their cousin’s baby” (fewer cases of this because they and “their cousin’s baby” would be totally shunned). In most cases in which there wasn’t an abortion, the pregnant girl’s male relatives forced the sperm donor to marry the girl in a shotgun wedding.

      Another thing is that every respectable AA girl’s parents FORCED her to immediately cut ties and break friendship with every “stupid girl” who got pregnant while unmarried. In the example I mentioned earlier about my grandparents taking in the baby of one of my aunt’s high school friends, my grandparents ALSO made my aunt immediately cut ties and break friendship with that girl. Totally. My aunt could wave to the girl, and say “hi” and “bye” to the girl, but that was it. Period.

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      • bubblychie27
        Dec 17, 2014 @ 19:19:05

        Khadija I wanted to know your feelings on BWE Womanist blogs like this:
        http://www.gradientlair.com/post/64943589375/trudy-what-is-your-opinion-on-sex-workers-sex

        I have always been very unsure about this particular blog. I have always been confused when reading some of her work. But she makes some valid points in some essays. But I find myself….bewildered with some. I’m not sure if I’m lacking comprehension skills or what.

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        • Khadija Nassif
          Dec 17, 2014 @ 20:26:28

          bubblychie27,

          I’ve heard of this blog you’ve linked to (a lot of BW bloggers reference this blog), but I’ve never actually read any of it before now.

          Surface impression from this one post you’ve linked to: This writer uses a LOT of gender politics jargon and acronyms. It’s one thing to use acronyms as a shortcut to avoid having to endlessly repeat frequently-used terms dealing with a particular topic. I tend to do that a lot with terms like Black women (BW), African-Americans (AAs). What I notice is that her essay is jam-packed with hard core gender politics jargon, much of which I’ve never heard of.

          Such as “asexual (Gray-A, heteroromantic)”. I know what “asexual” means, but I have no idea what the rest of that phrase means. Or “LGBTQIA movements”. To repeat a question I saw somebody else raise recently, are they adding a new letter on this acronym every year? I have no idea what the “QIA” stands for.

          Almost every paragraph in that particular blog post contains at least one specialized political jargon term that I’m unfamiliar with. And since I’m not willing to invest the time in looking up a glossary of all that stuff, my comprehension of that particular blog post is extremely limited. Be that as it may, I do have some thoughts about what I did understand from it. But I’d like to do something else in my reply to your question.

          Instead of me telling you what I think about that post, I’ll ask some questions for you to consider:

          (1) Do the ideas expressed and positions taken in that post sound like common sense to you?

          (2) Do the ideas expressed and positions taken in that post make sense to you in terms of practical matters? For examples, would you want a “sex worker” living on your block? Or next door to your house? Or in your apartment building (if you rent)?

          Would you want a “sex worker” conducting their business on your street? In potential view of your children or neighborhood children?

          One of my friends had the very unhappy experience of her then-9 year old son asking her what was going on in a neighbor’s car that was parked in front of their house on an early Saturday morning. Her son was confused because while looking out a window he could see the top of a teenage girl’s head bobbing up and down in their middle-aged male neighbor’s lap in the car. My friend and her husband were enraged, to say the least.

          (3) From what you’ve seen and heard in the news and documentaries, do you feel that the “sex worker” job is something that you would like to see the government ignore, support, or try to discourage (via law enforcement)?

          (4) From what you’ve seen and heard in the news and documentaries, does there seem to be anything of any value about the “sex worker” job and/or lifestyle? Or does it seem to be filled with degradation? For this question, it’d probably be appropriate to make some distinctions, because different categories of “sex workers” might tend to have different sorts of experiences:

          (a) An underage boy who does “sex work” for adult men might tend to have different experiences than an adult man who does “sex work” for other adult men. Males who do “sex work” for other males might tend to have different experiences of “sex work” than female “sex workers” who do “sex work” for men. I would suspect their working conditions are very different. I haven’t heard of it being the norm for male “sex workers” to have pimps who take the lion’s share (if not all) of their money.

          (b) Historically in Western Europe there were a VERY SMALL number of women who were at the top of the “sex worker” hierarchy. They tend to be referred to as “courtesans” as opposed to prostitutes or sex workers. I’ve read up about some of them and these handful of historical Western courtesans had a certain type of lifestyle, which was described by a commenter’s review of this book. http://tinyurl.com/mktrp38

          The first (voted most helpful) review said (emphasis added in bold): “This is a well researched and well written account of a segment of society rarely covered in detail by historians. While it gives extensive details of five particular courtesans over a 150-year period of time, contrasting their beginnings, life styles, and societies of the time, the author has also included information on other courtesans as well as introductory material on the role of courtesans in the social structure.

          Real courtesans were not prostitutes, as indicated by another reviewer. They held a higher place in the social structure. In a way they were mistresses, but sometimes had more than one patron. Unlike prostitutes, they were independent, i.e, they did not have a pimp or madam. They received callers of their own choosing at their own residence, or sometimes traveled with patrons.

          . . . It was helpful to be pretty, but important to be intelligent, amusing, charming, and a good companion. They preferred patrons with the same attributes, but a patron also had to have money. Courtesans tended to have extravagant lifestyles. It was not uncommon for men to provide them with a life annuity. For men, it was a sign of social status to be able to afford a courtesan, providing her with a house, a carriage, horses, jewels, money for fancy clothing, etc.”

          My question for you to consider is: How many modern day American (especially AA Black women) sex workers would you expect have it like THAT?

          In all the years in the past I spent doing criminal defense, I never encountered a female (teenage or adult woman) “sex worker” who had it like THAT. Nor did I hear of any through the grapevine. Through colleagues I heard about some female strippers (of various races) who appeared to be relatively comfortable in terms of material goods (had nice apartments or owned nice houses, owned nice cars, etc.). Curiously, the majority of these women were lesbians who did “sex work” for men, while their romantic relationships were all with other women.*

          But the vast majority of female “sex workers” I encountered at work or heard about from colleagues were girls and women who had been molested as children (*including the materially successful female strippers I mentioned above). And/or were substance abusers. There was nothing cute or attractive about their lifestyles. There was nothing about their lives that resembled the movie Pretty Woman.

          Ask yourself, when you add it all up in terms of common sense and practical matters, do the ideas expressed and positions taken in that post sound like something you’d want to support? {shoulder shrug}

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          • Khadija Nassif
            Dec 17, 2014 @ 20:30:42

            Oops! Here’s the correct link to the book mentioned in my earlier comment.

            http://www.amazon.com/Courtesans-Money-Fame-Nineteenth-Century/dp/0066209552/ref=pd_rhf_gw_p_img_1

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            • bubblychie27
              Dec 17, 2014 @ 21:16:50

              Awesome, I’m going to give that a read. 🙂

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            • bubblychie27
              Dec 17, 2014 @ 21:28:44

              To me, it just seem as if she made some false assumptions about the race of the women, I read the response to the post I linked to that stated something about multicultural women from one of them whom she called a ‘sh*thead*. She said that she isn’t mixed nor light skin, and didn’t understand why she attacked her. I understand that it’s wrong to have bigoted preferences. But I’m starting to see this more common when it comes to BW. Like some saying “bm aren’t sh*t” or “bm are thugs”, I hear that quite a lot from certain BW. I wonder why she never addressed that issue, with BW dating preference and ideologies.

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          • bubblychie27
            Dec 17, 2014 @ 21:15:52

            Yeah, I wouldn’t support sex work. I wouldn’t want them to conducting business on my street either. Due to the mere fact that children and younger black women would be exposed to it. It seems as if these jobs exploit women’s weakness, especially BW and poor women.

            I hate to say it, but signs of people conducting sex work in the neighborhood has always been a sign that the value of the area is lowering.

            I guess that’s why I was confused as well, because of all of the gender political jargon aren’t things I’ve heard of myself.

            Her blog overall confuses me, because I’m constantly having to go look things up to try to understand her. So I thought I was stupid, because she told one black female that “she was lacking comprehension skills” because she mis-read one of her post.

            I’m also confused on her stance with whom she supports. Like it’s trans-black women, black queer, etc.

            Here is something else I’m confused with things like this

            http://www.gradientlair.com/post/64575064306/tom-hiddleston-dances-in-korea-video

            I was always under the assumption that she ‘hated’ white men. But I guess this one is special. *shrugs* I don’t know. She’s very hard for me to understand as well. I know I read one of your articles where you said some BWE blogs can be Sister Soldiers. But she is confusing. Like it was things like this post:

            http://www.gradientlair.com/post/79196813366/poc-and-anti-blackness-dating-black-men

            That makes me very confused about her.

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            • Khadija Nassif
              Dec 17, 2014 @ 21:35:12

              {another shoulder shrug}

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            • Formavitae
              Dec 18, 2014 @ 21:39:12

              @bubblychie27

              I know you weren’t talking to me, but I just wanted to make a brief comment.

              I don’t know whether I’ve ever read anything at that blog you referenced. However, just reading your commentary and questions (and Khadija’s responses), I developed fatigue and a headache.

              You may not be familiar w/me, but I’ve been reading certain ladies like Khadija, Evia, Faith, and others, for a few years now. I just don’t comment much.

              But, to my point, of course it is necessary to have a well-developed vocabulary, and it’s good to learn new things. However, IMO, once you can’t have a conversation about basic, fundamental things without extensive use of new, unfamiliar/strange lingo/jargon, something is wrong. Or, to a degree, “problematic”, IMO. I won’t expound further on this opinion, other than to say ideas/language need to be SUBSTANTIVE and not just “self-important”.

              I also came to the conclusion that I didn’t need to become swept up into the “movements” of every “marginalized” group. Some things just don’t apply to me. And, THAT’S OKAY. It’s also OKAY for me not to worry about things that don’t pertain to me. My life, time, and mind are finite in measure and scope. It’s okay to be SELECTIVE.

              Furthermore, I choose to engage things that involve my interests in language that MAKES SENSE to me. I don’t obligate myself to continuously “learn” new lingo just to become involved with something that is ALLEGEDLY related to my “interests”. I’ve made a personal choice to keep some things BASIC because it simplifies the process of living and choosing WISELY.

              Lastly, I noticed that you included the word “bubbly” in your SN. That gives me the impression that you are a positive person and that you VALUE positivity. Well, it will be hard to remain “bubbly” or “positive” if you allow yourself to get whipped up into everyone else’s “drama”.

              BE SELECTIVE.

              That is all.

              ENJOY YOUR HOLIDAYS.

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              • bubblychie27
                Dec 19, 2014 @ 06:26:59

                Wow thank you 🙂 You gave me a lot of insight

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              • bubblychie27
                Dec 19, 2014 @ 06:30:07

                Also I’m sorry if my questions caused any trouble to you 😦

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                • Formavitae
                  Dec 19, 2014 @ 09:04:53

                  Oh, Bubbly…

                  YOU’RE WELCOME.

                  And, your questions didn’t trouble me. What I was actually saying was that merely listening to other people (attempt to) discuss that other author’s writings was “giving me a headache” because it seemed to be so wrapped up in unnecessary lingo (i.e. “drama”). It had NOTHING to do with your words or Khadija’s.

                  Whenever something is (reminds me of) a bunch of DRAMA, I get a headache.

                  I’M ALLERGIC TO DRAMA.

                  Lol.

                  You seem to have such a bright spirit. And, I would hate to see it weighed down unnecessarily. I used to want to help “all people” and “all things”. But, I learned that, REALISTICALLY, as a single human being, there isn’t enough capacity to do so. You have to learn to FOCUS. And, as Neecy and other BWE writers are encourage other BW to do, it’s important to make sure you focus ON YOURSELF. PICK your interests (and make sure at least ONE of them IS YOU), DECIDE how you want to engage them (make sure you don’t neglect yourself in the process), then BE SELECTIVE about whom you involve/align yourself with. Other people’s energy REALLY WILL influence your life/energy more than you realize. Decide what you like. Decide what you don’t. (For example, I don’t like drama.) And, if people seem to be/attract that which you dislike or don’t want to be bothered with, REMOVE YOURSELF FROM THEM. You’ll save yourself a lot of hassle and headache.

                  And, yes, it’s important (to a degree) to keep an “open mind”. But, you can waste a lot of time and a lot of your life “being open” to things/ideas/people you should have simply PASSED BY. Don’t feel OBLIGATED to entertain any and all persons, things, or ideas.

                  I’m just trying to encourage you to guard your heart, mind, life, and interests CAREFULLY and to help make sure you are aware YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO SO.

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            • Khadija Nassif
              Dec 19, 2014 @ 06:11:01

              Formavitae,

              I co-sign 100%. Not everything is worthy of one’s attention. Not everything is worthy of one taking the time and energy to decipher it.

              In fact, I would submit that most things are NOT worthy of attention or effort (mostly because they bring no benefit to one’s life).

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    • neurochick
      Dec 16, 2014 @ 10:57:03

      @Evia:

      Dear Evia:

      They knew no one was perfect but without rules and standards, they knew we’d all be wallowing in chaos real fast and then NONE of us would survive or thrive.

      This is a brilliant statement. This is about boundaries. Without boundaries, all societies, all businesses, all communities implode.

      Sometimes I think integration was good and bad for AA’s. Some of us used the opportunities for good, but too many of us went around screaming, “we’re FREE. We can do WHATEVER we want!” And that meant “screw the boundaries!” Then the sexual revolution happened and more people screamed, “screw the boundaries!”

      When the actress Ingrid Bergman had an out of wedlock child, decades ago, she was blacklisted in Hollywood for a long time. Now actresses had children out of wedlock and it was okay for them. But what AA’s didn’t realize is that when the dominant culture does something, it’s okay for them and them alone because they are the ones who make the rules and have the power. AA’s thought “if they can do it, so can we. What they do, we’ll do.”

      And so here we are.

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      • Evia
        Dec 16, 2014 @ 12:02:33

        Neurochick, yes some AAs used to be brilliant in their Common Sense. Without a mountain of diplomas and degrees, they realized that it made so much more sense for us to do all we could to enable SOME of us to survive and thrive than to support ALL of us drowning–as I see 99.8% of AAs doing now. I believe history will show that integration destroyed AAs. Freedom is not free for people who aren’t ready for it; they will pay a high price for it. You also see this in nature. Any animal that is not ready to leave the nest is soon devoured.

        And IMO, when unmarried, WEALTHY people (like actors/entertainers) have children, it’s VERY different than when struggling and poor people have them. A wealthy person has immense resources to be able to address their children’s needs without depending on the system or begging me for my resources or trying to force me through my tax dollars to help them. So, that’s a BIG difference. And as I said, I don’t get caught up in other peoples’ choices unless or until they expect for me to finance the consequences of their choices or try to force me to help them. I believe in helping others, but I don’t want anyone feeling they’re ENTITLED to my assets or feeling that if I don’t give them something, then they are justified in taking from me. We are surrounded by people like that these days.

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  16. Evia
    Dec 15, 2014 @ 07:49:28

    I just read where Dira D said the following above:

    Again, in old school AA society, shot gun weddings were enforced or bastards were adopted by relatives. My uncle got a woman pregnant when he was in his early 20s. When my grandfather found out, after having strong words, he took his son to the girl’s house to make wedding arrangements. Back then, the men were expected to take responsibility for their actions. The men weren’t defended or excused from their behavior.

    Totally true. This is another page about this but there were nuances. Shotgun weddings were done but ONLY when girls who carried themselves in a “respectable” way got pregnant.What I mean is that if a woman was known to be seen with just one man by others and she got pregnant, then he definitely HAD to marry her and accept the responsibility for that child. In my neck of the woods, men were NEVER forced to marry any of the local semen receptacles there because too many men were using those same receptacles. Men were known to stop by where those receptacles lived on payday. In a case like that, there’d be no way to know who the father of any of these children was.

    Sometimes, when a respectable girl got pregnant, her family would send her to relatives in another part of the country–to avoid the shame on the family’s name. That child was often raised by that relative. Sometimes, a respectable girl’s baby was raised by her mother as the mother’s child as in OOPS–a midterm life pregnancy. (lol) That is, IF the girl could be sent away before anyone in the area knew about the pregnancy so that the baby could be born in another locale. It would then be brought back to our area for the girl’s mother, aunt, sister (all married women) to raise as her own maybe prematurely-born child.This was a delicate situation that had to be handled in a very particular way.

    In other words, there were allowances made for a small percentage of “mistakes,” but the mistakes were kept to a minimum and were in NO WAY allowed to become a way of life as they have now become among AAs. This is exactly why so many AAs HATE talk about respectability or will accuse you of being “snooty” “bougie”, snobbish or “white” (lol) and other names if you refuse to associate with them and their sordid, dysfunctional ways. I was called all of these and more by some of my family members and other AAs when I absolutely refused to allow my sons to mingle with their children. I cut all of these folks loose. Fast forward to today: ALL of their children have sunk into the underclass permanently.

    I’m referring here to black folks and others who CANNOT financially, emotionally, practically, or otherwise handle the consequences of having bastard children. And personally speaking, I’m not talking about the relative handful of rich, wealthy, or otherwise well-equipped bw who have these children because they have resources. I’m not caught up in other peoples morals UNTIL their actions directly impact me and mine via my tax dollars and my safety or general well-being.

    Anyway, it’s interesting that after I got grown and moved to NYC, I ran into a couple of these women who’d been the semen receptacles in my Alabama area. LOL! I was happy to see familiar faces from “down home,” so I went to visit them. I still felt nervous about doing this because of my upbringing.LOL They were living in Harlem with their grown daughters all in one apartment there and the daughters had a bunch of children. SMH They had ALL repeated the cycle!!

    I’m providing the history here because many younger AA women have no idea who they once were, aside from themselves as slaves in movies. No–y’all once were proud and noble women who men sought out to marry and elevate you proudly as their wives. When I met and married my first husband,(and let me mention that he already had his ‘green card’–lol) ALL of his Nigerian friends pestered me to meet my AA black girlfriends and for serious relationships. When I dated Arab men and became engaged to one, several of those guys were dating AA women and I knew of 3 marriages of Arab men and AA women and this was in the late 70s-early 80s. These males were all professional males.

    So, you see that despite the 3 entrenched racist stereotypes of AA women as Jezebels, Sapphires, and Mammies, generally speaking, men in this country respected AA black women or plenty enough for many of us bw to operate freely and feel socially comfortable during that time–or at least in NYC. We flitted around like butterflies. LOL So, to an old school AAbw like me, it’s astounding to find out that so many younger AAbw have allowed themselves to become so segregated, dysfunctional, and virtually quarantined by POWERLESS AAblacks!

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    • DiraD
      Dec 15, 2014 @ 09:59:32

      According to my mother and grandmothers, a BM who impregnated a “respectable” girl could expect his social calendar to evaporate. He could not date other girls because their fathers would turn him away. The BM would not get invited to mixed parties. Even though he was technically invited, the BM would be made to feel unwelcome at the church social. The thinking was if a man already showed himself to be irresponsible and unthinking with one woman, why allow him the chance to show out again? Hence, if the BM wanted to avoid social ostracization, he either had to made the pregnant girl or move far away. Furthermore, the BM’s family would be shunned. After all, something must be wrong with them to raise such an irresponsible man.

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    • HomesteadGlamourGirl
      Dec 15, 2014 @ 11:58:03

      Also, the stigma spread to the entire family–NOT just the male who impregnated a girl out of wedlock, or the girl who got pregnant while unmarried.

      If that girl had sisters, THEY were painted with the same brush, and had to work double-time to prove they were not like the wayward one who got pregnant. The parents had the shame of the community questioning their parenting. It was just all around bad, for everyone. The social effects on the family could last for years while they tried to clean up their reputation.

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  17. Lynn
    Dec 15, 2014 @ 09:02:49

    Thank you Khadija and Evia for telling the raw truth about how old school Black folks operated in the past. Your descriptions were the real deal. It’s amazing how far the Black Collective has sunk in the last few decades. I came from a functioning background where my Grandparents migrated up north from the south. They were married 50 years; my Mom was married to my dad for 7. I believe the disconnect point for my Mom was she married my father who is literally a bastard himself. And then, as is now so evident Bastard men do not make good marriage/father material. We were born in wedlock, but my Mom divorced him soon after.

    Because my Mom physically moved us to a more traditional environment where the majority of the families were intact, we were able to observe functional family groups. My two brother’s are now married with intact families. I know their success in reversing the degeneracy is due in large part to the environment we grew up in. Out of all my cousins who were raised in the big city chaos, only about two of them managed to become functioning members of society.

    One of the commenters earlier mention how BWE seems to “be a lonely road to take”. The truth is because of the Black Collective’s (BC) degeneracy, if you are uplifting yourself and living BWE principles you WILL be lonely if you only associate with Black people. That’s why I’m always happy to see BWE core founders encouraging the idea of AA BW entering the global village. But in order to do that successfully, you cannot continue with the same ABC mannerisms the overwhelming majority of the BC uses. The story that I shared in the last post is a demonstration that as you change your behaviors to match what is accepted and expected in greater society, you will receive massive pushback and/or ABC Black people will start to alienate themselves from you. Personally, I consider that a good thing. Unless you want to fall in ‘rank and file’ with the ABC crew, you will have to strike out alone. But I don’t view it as a negative.

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  18. Evia
    Dec 15, 2014 @ 09:17:25

    Khadija, re:

    It’s not wise to assume that White Western Europeans (because White Eastern Europeans never pretended to welcome nonwhites into their countries) are going to keep grinning, skinning and welcoming nonwhite immigrants and their descendants in their midst as economies contract and these White folks themselves start struggling economically. . .

    Whew! Isn’t it scary that AA blacks and similar blacks are all living in the same space and time as others, YET I find that most of them have NO idea how numerous others in other groups really view them. As you’ve mentioned, there is sadly NO or very little sympathy for innocent AA kids these days because AAs are widely viewed as being “up to no good” and of no real value. AAs, themselves, view many of each other the same way.

    Shielding AAs from this reality is NOT helping them. I’ve been guilty of doing this too. I can’t anymore. But this is among the reasons why some AAs think that they have lots of time to get their acts together. They believe that the government is not going to actually let the worst happen to them. SMH Many AAs I’ve talked with are convinced of that! They therefore have endless excuses for not doing this or that. They really don’t believe that more and more of them are slowly but surely starving like the woman in the article you posted or being cut off from amenities like that Detroit woman who had no water.

    Many AA blacks believe that others (whites, Asians, or other nonwhites) don’t like them or hate them, or don’t want to associate with them because they’re black or because they’re AAs. This is NOT true. Many of these others KNOW that something has gone badly wrong with the AA populace and they’re simply trying to distance themselves from whatever that is. Bluntly speaking, in 2014, they know there’s an illness running amuck among AA blacks. I get tired of running into random AA blacks–whether at the supermarket or in a parking lot somewhere, who automatically bring up how other folks don’t like them. They ought to be focused instead on their own rotten, IN-HOUSE trash that is stinking to high heavens, and other folks are merely smelling it.

    Trust me, I mingle with many other folks of color who ALSO are wary of AAs these days. My sons have greatly benefited because their dad’s elders gave them (and my granddaughter) Nigerian names. I’m thankful for that now. Not saying that Nigerian cultural values are all good or even mostly good, but what has benefited my sons the most is that they were also raised with certain beneficial Nigerian cultural values AND in a non-AA way or with non-new school AA damaged values. Even with the bad reputations of some Nigerians, my sons are still well-received in certain social circles that AAs would NOT be able to enter. Socially, people screen people these days and they’re not going to give anyone a chance to drill holes in their boat if they can help it. Yeah, some people of color may work with you and go to school with you, but they don’t have to invite you to their social events and they usually don’t. But you don’t know that. But the Africans reading this know I’m telling the truth. LOL

    I don’t kid myself. I am able to enter certain circles because of who I married. I once had a Nigerian surname and I now have a Swiss-German surname. When I’ve sometimes hyphenated those two names (as some women do these days lol), and because I’m PAB, I’m able to shed much of the AA-illness label. Mostly though, I carry myself like a PAB which takes no effort for me because this is who I am. But people see that. I don’t associate with dysfunctional people, including my dysfunctional relatives AT ALL and haven’t done so for decades. So, neither my ex-husband nor Darren ever had to worry about whether my dysfunctional, damaged relatives would be in our lives. I don’t feel I lost anything by cutting my dysfunctional relative loose when I was in my early 20s because I’d already seen they were a liability. You can call me whatever, but I didn’t want to sink like they had. I wanted to have children and I DEFINITELY wasn’t going to have my children around these hole-drilling folks!

    Many well-educated, higher income AAbw these days are viewed as OFF in certain ways that puzzle many in other groups. I’m just going to tell y’all that this is why so many folks discuss AA black women publicly so much. It’s NOT because they’re jealous of AA women as I’ve heard some AA women say to console themselves. LOL The bulk of AA women are considered mutants. For ex.,many of these folks–whether Africans, white, or others who I’ve mingled with–definitely don’t understand how so many well-educated AAbw whose education has allowed them to escape from hell are willing to lay up with no-life, low-life men who’s going to take them back to hell. This is among the reasons why some Africans have not only forbidden their daughters from dating AA men (unless he has substantial resources), but they also don’t want their daughters having AA female friends. I’ve heard African mothers warn their daughters: “Don’t be like these American bw!”

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    • DiraD
      Dec 15, 2014 @ 10:13:42

      When I hear AAs engaging in this thinking, I laugh in their faces. It’s like they did not bother to learn any AA history or even look at the fallout from Katrina.

      I have never experienced a problem socializing with, befriending or even dating non-blacks. It’s all about the way you carry and present yourself.

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    • IamKM
      Dec 15, 2014 @ 10:38:59

      ITA!

      Trust me, AA BW are being judged and bein judged harshly like you are saying. I’m a young, single BW and I know I got some doors slammed in my metaphysical face because everyone else aren’t playing those games that majority AAs like to play. Yet, later, I’ve has some doors opened up when people realized I’m not about the mess most AAs are about. Everyone else is looking to get theirs in this hard Economic times.

      no one wants to be brought down and too many AA BW from all SES are hole drillers wherever they go. No one has time for them and the clock is ticking on AAs everywhere.

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      • HomesteadGlamourGirl
        Dec 15, 2014 @ 12:03:20

        To any AAbw born out of wedlock who are lurking–the consequences to YOU of your parents’ choices are not nearly as severe as they were 45-50 years ago. If YOU work double time to BE and PRESENT yourself a certain way, it will do a lot to lessen the effects of decisions that were made before you were born.

        If YOU decide, right now, that you are willing to put in the effort to alter your trajectory for your own sake and the sake of your children, you will be surprised at how far you can go. But you must decide.

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    • neurochick
      Dec 16, 2014 @ 09:27:26

      @Evia:

      Dear Evia:

      For ex.,many of these folks–whether Africans, white, or others who I’ve mingled with–definitely don’t understand how so many well-educated AAbw whose education has allowed them to escape from hell are willing to lay up with no-life, low-life men who’s going to take them back to hell.

      My mom used to say thing like that…in the 1980’s. We could never understand why so many AAbw would actually marry SBM! (Sorry Black Men). I don’t get it. I really, really don’t. I’m better off by myself than to be dragged down by some idiot, who will only leave you with an STD and penniless.

      And I knew I didn’t want to have any bastard, or out of wedlock, or whatever children. So if I don’t get married, don’t have any at all. Now, that’s the problem a lot of AAbw have, they’re like, “but, I don’t want to be ALONE.” Huh? You don’t have children because YOU don’t want to be alone. If you don’t want to be alone, get a pet.

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    • Mochachoc
      Dec 22, 2014 @ 13:40:36

      I’m glad I objected to the use of the word bastard because it has opened up another level of dialogue I hadn’t considered before. I’ve been pondering this for a few days now and came across Tonya tko on youtube (she has some very interesting opinions. One which caught my attention was her assertion that black people who hate themselves and their African features should simply not mate with other black people thereby replicating their self-hatred). She described an incident whereby an African-American man offered her assistance but withdrew his offer the minute he found out she was indeed African-American (he had assumed she was Panamanian or something). I was truly gobsmacked. I had no idea that other groups of people were treating African-Americans as a pariah. I’m not sure why I didn’t get it because you have all been ‘blowing the trumpet’ a long time. I see now: making sure low-status people know exactly who they are protects the wider group. I will never be comfortable with using that word to describe a child who had no say in how they came into the world but Evia has helped me to understand the logical and necessary use. I can also see that when behaviour and assignation became fluid it was downhill from there.

      So thank you.

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  19. Evia
    Dec 15, 2014 @ 10:44:30

    The responses to this AAbw’s–Miss Jessie’s Haircare Co-founder–suicide are SO predictable!

    May She Rest.

    Black Women–Save YOURSELVES!

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/12/15/titi-branch-co-founder-of-miss-jessies-natural-hair-care-line-t-suicide-at-45/

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  20. HomesteadGlamourGirl
    Dec 15, 2014 @ 11:43:50

    Evia, you said:
    [i]” Whenever anyone black comes up with a plan or starts talking about the AA populace making the necessary IN-HOUSE changes, AAs get REAL quiet. For ex., I still want to see how many of the numerous readers and commenters who sound off in these forums about how this and that ain’t right and about how much they appreciate the information they gain from these forums–[b]are actually going to ‘walk the walk’ by supporting the BWE Challenge.[/b]

    That being said, there does need to be a bunch more vendors and I think that Homestead Glamour Girl is working on that, so that will gradually happen if this challenge is supported. I personally have already bought from practically everyone there either recently or before.”[/i]
    ———————
    I just wanted to pull this quote to highlight this point.
    As of now, I have about 4 people who have stepped up to say they will participate in this challenge–and that includes me. http://myplaceinthesun.typepad.com/my_place_in_the_sun/2014/12/moving-towards-success.html
    I am not listed as a vendor, I have no products for sale, this challenge does not directly benefit me, at all. This is about putting our money where our mouths are.I thought this would be the perfect time to issue such a challenge, after all so much money gets spent on gifts this time of year.

    Cost isn’t really an excuse–Karyn Langhorne Folan has a book listed for 99cents! Even a 99cent purchase–ONE 99cent purchase, mind you– counts to fulfill the challenge. If you don’t have a kindle, she has a book for 6.29 on Amazon. Alot of Roslyn’s books (all around $5, as far as a cursory glance tells) can be downloaded as pdfs.

    But we know quite well that many of the readers can easily spend, WILL easily spend, alot more than that on a gift or a little treat for themselves.

    I have already purchased from two vendors on the list: http://myplaceinthesun.typepad.com/my_place_in_the_sun/2014/12/a-bwe-holiday-season-show-ustell-us-what-you-got.html Everyone who has accepted the challenge, please leave a comment once you have made a purchase.

    I have heard from Melody that Evia has ordered something from her.

    If anyone knows of any more bwe/bwe friendly vendors, please contact me. I’d love to have more options than accessories and books–but again, most everyone who reads these blogs can surely spare a few bucks to spend with those vedors already on the list.

    10 days til the 25th, though I will extend the challenge through the 1st of the year. That way everyone gifting for Christmas/Hanukkah/Kwanzaa/New Year’s/Winter Solstice/Festivus are all covered.

    So Evia has observed a lot of “quiet”. Who among you will speak up and step up?

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  21. Silver Roxen
    Dec 15, 2014 @ 14:19:02

    Hello this is my first time commenting, I am a young AABW (almost an adult actually) and I have been reading your blog and various other progressive BW blogs for about three years. I love hearing stories about the values of old school African Americans because the only person that I can learn this from in person is my great grandfather. In regards to this quote “I’m providing the history here because many younger AA women have no idea who they once were, aside from themselves as slaves in movies. No–y’all once were proud and noble women who men sought out to marry and elevate you proudly as their wives.” I have never felt right about the way BW are portrayed in films, they were always sad, doing the heavy lifting for everybody else and lacking something. I am glad my inquiries brought me to investigate about BW’s image and it was then on that I learned about the three stereotypes that are hashed over and over again. I am glad that I discovered these blogs because I have learned that I am a proud and noble woman who is worthy of a quality life including a quality marriage. Also, I plan on buying a couple of books, The Sojourner’s Passport and Karyn’s first book, Don’t Bring Home A White Boy. Sorry, for the long comment.

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    • HomesteadGlamourGirl
      Dec 16, 2014 @ 05:07:50

      Let us know when you get the books Silver (I like your name by the way). Karyn has obviously been busy, she doesn’t seem to blog anymore but she surely is writing up a storm!
      You will love the SP. Several essays from Khadija can only be found there.

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  22. Silver Roxen
    Dec 15, 2014 @ 14:34:09

    In addition, I am going to follow HomesteadGlamourGirl’s advice.

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  23. Khadija Nassif
    Dec 15, 2014 @ 17:43:37

    A link to follow up on my earlier comments about Western European taxpayers ALSO getting fed up with subsidizing the bastard baby lifestyle and its many dysfunctions (the same way many American citizens who are not AAs are fed up with their tax money being used to subsidize the AA bastard baby lifestyle):

    Revealed, the staggering scale of Britain’s underclass: Half a million problem families cost the taxpayer £30BILLION every year

    Dysfunctional behaviour of some households draining public resources

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2727090/Britains-underclass-Half-million-problem-families-cost-taxpayer-30BILLION-year.html

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  24. APA
    Dec 16, 2014 @ 11:33:17

    Evia:

    The news about the Miss Jessie’s co-founder is sad and highlights the importance of taking care of your emotional AND physical health. Something that too many BW neglect to do. I agree that we all need to save ourselves before trying to save others.

    I’m also shocked that the family and company has yet to release an official statement. She passed nearly 10 days ago. Most of the sources in the news stories that I read were “friends” of the family, and it was also a friend who made the video tribute that a lot of sources keep linking to. I checked the company’s website, and there is no mention of her passing. The only mention is a one word tweet (“Titi!”) on both her sister’s and the company’s twitter accounts. If mainstream media didn’t pay attention to her obituary in an obscure urban business magazine (NV Magazine), she would have disappeared into thin air.

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    • Evia
      Dec 16, 2014 @ 12:19:46

      Honestly, I had only heard a bit about this product line since I barely buy anything commercial for my natural hair style. But from what I read yesterday, she was a bw’s hair care pioneer and numerous bw loved these products and used them. Her untimely death is a big loss to lots of bw because apparently she and her sister deserve much of the credit for making natural hair “sexy” which is a factor in a large portion of bw wearing their own hair these days.

      I know people are curious, but IMO, it’s ultimately her family’s personal choice as to whether they should divulge any information. She gave a huge amount to the public during her life, but at this time, she belongs to her family; not to the public. Just my opinion.

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  25. Rosie Posie
    Dec 16, 2014 @ 12:53:42

    Reply

    • Lynn
      Dec 17, 2014 @ 08:37:52

      From: http://billmoyers.com/2014/11/18/two-detroits-separate-unequal/

      “Satisfied, he continued on, guided by a futuristic tablet map of the neighborhood’s languid streets. These had become even more impenetrable last year when the bankrupt city paid for and constructed a series of traffic barriers on the community’s edges.”

      Peace walls are already here! Paid for by a BANKRUPT city. Khadija hit on the head almost a decade ago when she called this.

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      • Formavitae
        Dec 19, 2014 @ 15:36:41

        THANK you, for sharing that article.

        I really enjoyed it.

        There are lots of things that could be addressed, but a few things that stuck out to me (that I can remember–lol) are the following:

        1. WHEN will AAs get it that you can’t get SOMETHING FOR NOTHING?

        OF COURSE the city turned off the water. People weren’t paying their water bills. And, IT’S EXPENSIVE to maintain/provide infrastructure and services. The water company can’t operate WITHOUT RESOURCES. THAT’S why it’s important to PAY YOUR BILL. I guess they thought “the government” aka “the village” aka “someone else” was going to keep paying it FOR them. Guess their learning differently.

        2. There are OBVIOUSLY people who STILL CARE about Detroit and STILL CARE about THIS country. (I’m one–particularly of THE LATTER.)

        People with the COMMON SENSE to recognize the value that the United States still offers are not willing to sit IDLY BY and watch it go “to hell in a handbasket”. They are going to find ways to invest for the prosperity of their country/communities and to protect their investment. And, they ARE WILLING to allow FOOLS to “fall by the wayside”. Honestly, I DON’T BLAME THEM. Who wants to keep constantly combating STUPIDITY FOR STUPIDITY’S SAKE? Not I. The lady was mentioning the family involved in gun violence. More than likely it was black on black crime. Blacks wouldn’t be getting shot by blacks, if blacks weren’t willing TO SHOOT OTHER BLACKS. A WHOLE LOT OF MISERY could be averted, if AAs would cut out self-defeating behaviors, stop supporting and allowing their children to be socialized by ignoramuses and “proud non-reader(s) of books” like Kanye. WHAT OTHER SET OF OUTCOMES DO THEY EXPECT?

        One thing I hope AA women get is that while the United States has its flaws, it’s STILL one of the greatest lands of opportunity in the world. THAT’S WHY PEOPLE KEEP COMING. Also, AAs need to realize THEY HAVE no other home. There is no other country in Europe, Asia, AFRICA, the Middle East, Latin America, that is a source of AUTHENTIC AAs. So, make the preparations and moves you want. I ENCOURAGE THAT. But, don’t fail to recognize THE SIGNIFICANCE of the decline of YOUR home– the UNITED STATES. Once THIS flops, THAT’S IT FOR YOU, aside from the grace and mercy you can cull/earn from other groups.

        Oh, yeah…This ties into my next point:

        3. The lady was bemoaning how she feels the efforts to rebuild Detroit (WITHOUT “DRAMA”–evidently, lots of OTHER people have a “drama” allergy too..not just me–lol) is an effort to erase its “history” (I’m assuming she means its AA “history” and people like her.

        THE MAIN PEOPLE TRYING TO ERASE AAs AND AA HISTORY ARE BLACK (AA) MALES.

        Even as AAs discuss/protest/lament their marginalization and erasure, BM will still be promoting and financing it. They’ll still be taking YOUR (AA women’s) money and using it to invest in urban renewal projects that ERASE YOU. Taking YOUR money to sex/finance lavish lifestyles for NON-AA women who look NOTHING LIKE YOU–all the while “protesting” against “erasure” alongside you. And, spare me the notions of African male deliverance. Black males have been selling out their people FOR CENTURIES, and they’re still doing it TODAY. Check out this situation with the Masai in Tanzania, where they’re being SOLD OUT for the wishes of Middle Eastern Royalty:

        http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/16/tanzania-government-accused-serengeti-sale-maasai-lands

        Here’s information about the current Tanzanian form of government. They are a “Republic” and have a “President”:

        http://globaledge.msu.edu/countries/tanzania/government

        Here is a picture of their current “President”:

        http://www.who.int/topics/millennium_development_goals/accountability_commission/kikwete/en/

        I didn’t dig too deeply into this President’s involvement with this effort to displace (my bad…) “RELOCATE” the Masai. I’m AA, and AAs (particularly AA women and children) are my PRIMARY CONCERN. Just wanted to show ONE example of the actions/decision-making of African “kings”.

        4. What is WRONG with AAs that they can still dance and “party” after discussing serious issues like being without water and economically disenfranchised “ELEMENTS” (I INTENTIONALLY avoided the word “MEMBERS”) of a society?

        I’m not going into all that. There are only so many “Excedrin” pills in ONE BOTTLE. LOL. But, I really asked that question just to encourage reflection on the myriad issues in our population contributing to its current problem set(s).

        5. LASTLY, (what’s that?…a sigh of relief… 🙂 ) MOST people in the world want to live IN PEACE. They want to pursue their livelihoods and have their families without unnecessary incident and CHAOS. This SICKNESS that causes too many AAs to equate CHAOS with “fun”, being “live”, “keepin’ it real”, needs to be ELIMINATED and is a KEY REASON why other people don’t want to waste time trying to build communities, coalitions, families, or ANYTHING ELSE with us. They’re SELECTIVE about how they utilize their time and energy and would just prefer to bypass altogether any potential WASTE.

        So, AA women, you need to make sure you have viable, VALUED resources and can be part of the decision-making process rather than just IMPACTED by the decisions of others. What’s happening in Detroit is likely to spread as people who WANT to preserve this country decide to whip it into financial shape and make it more competitive for the future. I hope they are successful in doing so, because I LOVE my home. (But, I’m working on MY end, to make sure I don’t get CUT OUT.)

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      • Khadija Nassif
        Dec 19, 2014 @ 17:13:26

        Lynn,

        Thanks for sharing that article.

        Formavitae,

        I co-sign 100%!

        A friend and I have been discussing that article, and what we both find fascinating (because it’s part of a larger overall behavior pattern) is that—as usual—it’s AA Black women fighting the restructuring of Detroit. {rhetorical questions} Why are AABW always fighting what they [mistakenly] believe is “the good fight”? Why aren’t AA males manning the front lines of this struggle?

        My other take-away from the article was that basically, the non-welfare-recipient BW featured (like the retired construction inspector woman) have decided to go down with the Dysfunctional, Chaotic AA “ship” as it sinks to the bottom of the ocean.

        Instead of trying to figure out how they can wiggle their way into the new, secured, nice part of Detroit. Which is what I’d be doing if I was an AABW retiree or resident in Detroit. Essentially, these BW are fighting to preserve a profoundly dysfunctional status quo. {smh at that one}

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        • Formavitae
          Dec 19, 2014 @ 21:03:19

          Khadija,

          I was LITERALLY just at MB reading your articles about RP, “hole-drilling”, and “wasted opportunities”, co-signing ALL THE WAY!!!

          LOL!

          Yes. On this, and many other occasions, I have noticed BW leading movements, protests, and other efforts for “safety” and “social justice”, and I have always asked the same question: “Where are the BM?” I see the same thing frequently happen in AA “Christian” churches. The women do all (the majority of) the footwork and door-to-door community outreach, while men retain leadership positions and/or carry out activities on the church grounds.

          IT’S TIRING.

          I’m A WOMAN, and I want A MAN who affords me the opportunity TO BE a woman.

          This dysfunction has gone on FOR SO LONG that many people cease to see it for the dysfunction it is. AAs still function like they are under the constraints of the past (as you mentioned in your article), when there was more of a SEEMING “necessity” for AA women to play these roles in lieu of BM.

          Note: (I’m at the point where I feel that BM should have been held responsible for carrying out the roles OF MEN, EVEN WITH the dangers they faced. Many did. But, evidently, not enough. I think it would have built their character and also helped build a stronger, more FUNCTIONAL community. I don’t think AAs would have been as lacking in life and relationship skills as they are now. However, it seems to me that BM (not just AA) have a “special” kind of SELFISHNESS that doesn’t consider ANYTHING–not the well-being of women, children, kingdom, country, etc. While WM and AM are selfish they STILL care about preserving the well-being of “THE WHOLE”. BM seem to LACK that. That’s why BM remain SERVANTS. They CONSISTENTLY sellout that which would make them STRONG.)

          So, now, it’s just become standard, accepted practice that AA women will be the ones expected to go out and do the footwork without complaint. And, AA women cleaving to this notion of being “STRONG” women isn’t helping one bit.

          Hmmm….I’m a lady. I’m sitting down and enjoying my tea. Lol.

          As for your other observation, I too noticed that. It’s so common, it just doesn’t strike me anymore. IMO, this lady feels RESPONSIBLE to identify with the lower-class, downtrodden (likely due to their personal choices) AAs. I can understand this, a little bit, but I can’t “roll” with it. AA women have been so INDOCTRINATED to identify with the most destitute, “oppressed” (oftentimes “foolish”) members, in lieu of identifying with WISDOM and its fruitful results. If one doesn’t, they are accused of being snobby, not “caring”, etc. You already know this. AA women are socialized to AVOID seeing/recognizing their opportunities, because they are not to care for THEIR OWN advancement and success, but rather the advancement and success of the BM followed by that of HIS children. This contributes to AA women being SO BLIND to the opportunities they have, IMO.

          There are so many “tentacles” that run so deep, with these issues, that the WISEST thing an AA woman can do is GET A CLUE and hop on a “success-bound train”. There’s not ENOUGH TIME IN THE WORLD for the dissection and remediation all of these issues.

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          • Rae
            Dec 19, 2014 @ 21:36:30

            !!!!!!!!! This!!!!!!!

            Many young black women social justice bloggers talk about class unity! Poor blacks and rich blacks need to come together! Like Evia says Black women are naive ! Which is why people step all over is! In what world do the poor and rich live amongst each other??? Classism has always existed since the beginning of mankind! The young black people especially african americans seem to live in a different world from the rest of the population. I’ve read online from some young black people that white surpremacy create classism. Bullshit! I’m pretty sure long before we came to the shores of the Americas that they were rich africans and poor africans! I’ve also read that africans practiced slavery (like the rest of the world) . They constantly romantasize about Africa before the transatlantic slave trade , I don’t get it!Black women are the only group of people who feel the need to be morally conscious .

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            • Formavitae
              Dec 19, 2014 @ 23:09:45

              Rae,

              I agree with you.

              Class stratification and segregation has existed FOR AGES. All this talk about “class unity” is the selling of a UTOPIAN DREAM that will likely NEVER EXIST on THIS earth.

              I used to have such idealistic hopes. I took a class once in which the professor was discussing how (this is a VERY WATERED DOWN relay) basically the wealthy will not be content living around housing stock quality that is affordable for the poorer groups, and the poorer groups will feel “badly” when comparing the housing stock the wealthy can afford to what they themselves can afford, if it were all mixed together. This professor was actually saying WAY more than that. But, I’m just trying to show one reasonable point that I had never considered at that time. Any inadequacy in interpretation and articulation ARE STRICTLY my own.

              There are a lot of challenges and nuances involved with class integration. I’m not knocking it. And, I understand why some would promote it. But, I feel a lot of people want class integration NOT for equality, but because they are jealous of what other people possess and don’t want to do the work or make the necessary sacrifices to achieve the same things. I have many more thoughts related to this subject, but it’s just too much to get into.

              And, frankly, I’m tired of this FAKE “love” for Africa, when the majority of AAs know the LAST thing they want is “BLACK” skin and “NAPPY” hair. Furthermore, I’m tired of AAs acting like life would be SO MUCH BETTER for the world and black people were it not for slavery and the colonization of Africa. I cannot say what would have happened if those events had never occurred. However, NONE of those events occurred without the ASSISTANCE of the BM, at some CRUCIAL point. ADDITIONALLY, we can see how the BM treats his people/countries TODAY, after having regained power after colonization. Rule under the BM is nothing to “romanticize”. You’ve got too many black people and BW, in particular (as it relates to OUR interests), trying to LEAVE it.

              I’M OVER IT. All the romanticizing about “black”/”colored” rule. Everyday black/colored people are (trying to) leaving their “black”/”colored” rule countries IN DROVES–BEGGING Whites/Europeans to take them in. SNEAKING into “white” ruled countries. FIGHTING deportation. And, attempting to FORCE/STEAL citizenship.

              What does that tell you?

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            • Formavitae
              Dec 19, 2014 @ 23:11:58

              Rae,

              This is an example of when ideology and reality DIVERGE. When choosing between the two, it’s best to look at REALITY, and AA women are encouraged focus on IDEALS.

              I’ve been there.

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          • Khadija Nassif
            Dec 20, 2014 @ 11:09:46

            Formavitae,

            You said, “However, it seems to me that BM (not just AA) have a “special” kind of SELFISHNESS that doesn’t consider ANYTHING–not the well-being of women, children, kingdom, country, etc. While WM and AM are selfish they STILL care about preserving the well-being of “THE WHOLE”. BM seem to LACK that. That’s why BM remain SERVANTS. They CONSISTENTLY sellout that which would make them STRONG.)”

            THIS is the core problem. And it’s an ANCIENT problem. I’ve concluded that BM have historically ALWAYS had this behavior pattern. BM’s ancient behavior pattern of Selfishly Selling Out Everything & Everyone For Their Own Individual Pleasure is the underlying reason why all the ancient African kingdoms and empires that “hotep”-types like to celebrate fell and/or were destroyed by Arabs or White Europeans.

            It’s funny. I lurk on several Black Nationalist negroes’ Facebook pages. It’s amazing to see the effect that increasing numbers of AABW “checking out” of Blackistan and finding abundant life with quality WM husbands has had—LOL! AABW walking away into the arms of nonblack men has prompted more than a few of these Black Nationalist BM to suddenly see the hypocrisy in their own ranks. Oh, these men have started calling out the other BM “conscious brother” “Black Nationalists” who have White girlfriends and half-White children.

            To bring it back to my main point, these Suddenly Aware of BM Nationalist Hypocrisy negroes have ALSO started calling out the BM hypocrisy (and lust for WW) of some of the “hotep heroes” such as the Moors (who sold out their empire in pursuit of WW concubines and sex slaves). They’ve been referring to the Moors as “the original sellouts.”

            Of course, all of this is way too little and far too late. Anyhoo, this mass BM deficit is an ancient behavior pattern that more Black folks are getting hip to.

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            • Formavitae
              Dec 20, 2014 @ 15:44:16

              Khadija,

              I am NOT SURPRISED to hear about these “hoteps” speaking out in response to the loss of AA women from the “plantation”. It’s just plain sad and telling that BM can’t identify, empathize with, or stand against injustices to BW (particularly THEIR OWN) until they THEMSELVES begin to feel negative impacts.

              As an aside, related to your previous comments on the success of BWE, I saw earlier today on an allegedly “black” gossip site some BM R&B singer was lamenting the fact that his recent album release had poor sales (I guess) and was saying maybe he should have been born white, etc. etc. I don’t know WHAT all he said, because I didn’t waste time listening to his video or reading his words. But, I received all of my pleasure from the commentary below. I guess he said some disparaging things towards BW, after some made negative comments about his wife? baby momma? wifey? I never followed that, because I have a drama allergy.

              But, here are a few examples of SOME of the commentary:

              Mayhe he should of thought about his “fan” before he insulted his black female fan base. Dummy. What is this mans hang up with race? All white artist arent platnium and all black R & B artist arent struggling. Maybe its you.

              THREAD #1 (I am replacing SN with P1, P2, P3…Poster 1, Poster 2, Poster 3, etc.)

              P1

              ” Yup… The black market does not exist for virtually anything because black men, our “leaders” been chasing white love and acceptance some 1895… They want the “mixed look” life. They never include us… They never promote us… Heck I remner finding out when biggie called XSCAPE ugly and said her rather screw a man, I was through… XSCAPE was one of the greats ok???? Why would blk men not support them… Then we have fantasia, jaxmin sulivan, chrissette, leela, jaguar wright… And theses fools talking about Amber rose… Remner when she was supposed to have a song out or something? Kim k tried it too. Blk men lead is no where fast. Sad to say but it’s true. If black women want to make it they gotta go the dhinda rhymes route… Black men idk what to tell y’all…u reap what u sew I guess?”

              P2

              ” It’s funny and sad that everything he wailed about in this rant is what he did and does to black women. We do the work, we make them stars, we are the best for them inside and out, just as he thinks he is for r&b. What thanks do we get? It does make you want to give up. It is indeed saddening and disappointing.
              Ladies, we are seeing the fruits. Do not support black men in the public eye, workplace or your personal lives who not only don’t support you, but mock and laugh at your very existence. As for you Tank, keep your head up; maybe your next kid will be able to pass as white.”

              THREAD #2

              P1

              “Yep. You would be here and mad. Black men and white women did not save XXXX as you said they would. They don’t buy his music! He’s a black s e x symbol who mocks black women, and actually thought he could get away with that. You’re going to have to get out there and buy mass copies of men like these’ music if you don’t want it to show that seIIing out will sink you now. Get your money ready to catapult Luke James’ star into the stratosphere. Lol”

              P2

              ” In a February interview with Black Hollywood Live Network, XXXX was kissing white áss, saying “R—- T—– and J—– T——— are doing R&B music better than us… we need to catch up.” XXXX, the article says, who has not had a gold-certified album since 2001′s One Man says that the music industry has changed and the response to his upcoming single “You’re My Star” will be indicative of that change:

              I guess “our” artists are realizing kissing white áss and disrespecting Black women is not the key to success. R—- T—–‘s career seems to be on a downward spiral too! These fools are going to learn. Respecting Black women and acknowledging their support can catapult your career, whereas disrespecting us will sink your stardom like a “tank”. Buh bye, XXXX!”

              THREAD #3

              FAKE BW lover

              “Sounds like some Black men dumped you. Move on and find happiness

              Like many Black women, it’s a combination of your ATTITUDE and OBESITY that is hindering your ability to find love. Try and smile a little more…..that makes you approachable. Get your teeth fixed. Learn to cook.”

              P1

              “Mock and racially profile us, while we keep our money in our purses.”

              P3

              ” I wondered why Mellody Hobson was single for so long. I mean, she’s attractive, highly intelligent, has her own career, money and can stand on her own two feet. Yet she ended up settling for an old white man in her older years. I couldn’t understand why some BM that was her equal didn’t snatch her up. Then I realized, you còòns make these ridiculous reasons to justify why you’re not with a BW, but will date a trashy áss white bítch with none of the same standards. I read an article on another site about a highly educated BM name Robert Smith who just had a baby with an ex playmate Hope something. Just like Hank Baskett who was happy to take that white whòre Kendra from under that moth ball smelling 100 year old Hugh Hefner, you’ll pick up another race’s unwanted trash, but want to down BW. Foh…”

              [SIDE NOTE: I don’t consider George Lucas “an old white man”.]

              P1

              “They’ll say Mellody just wasn’t attractive enough, but when Omari Hardwick’s wife was unveiled, it was “Don’t you b!tches know there’s more to a person than looks?!” They are willing to dig deep and find that inner beauty. The package has to be white first though. Same thing with marrying and impregnating Playboy bunnies and p0rn stars… “Everyone deserves a second chance” and “People change”. “The tape wasn’t so bad”, even.”

              P3

              ” Còòns tell off on themselves eventually. I was finished with Corey Booker after he showed who he was by trying to date that tatted up white stripper. It was bad enough he seem to bring up his partial white genetics, but for an educated BM to purposely go after trashy ww, like these other còòning celebrities, I had nothing else for him. Notice, he realized he was turning off a lot of his supporters with that reveal, and soon after was “dating” a Black Hollyweird lawyer. It was too late then, we saw who he was. All these highly educated, financially stable, childless, non-fat BW around here, but Black and biracial BM would rather “wife” a trashy bottom feeding ww, that white men don’t even want. I say good riddance and don’t come back now, ya’ here! (In the hillbilly accent).”

              P1

              “He told on himself even more if he grabbed up a black lawyer. We have to have everything Mellody has in financial assets, with Beyonce’s face and body and Kim K’s hair or at least Jessica White’s. To counteract his display, Corey would have had to date a black tatted up stripper with a nose ring.”

              ….

              P1

              Black men have vomited hateful and alarming views on black American women to me, countless times. So I know that many of the non black, foreign, or mixed-ish women who are with those kinds of black men sit and listen to that willingly, feeling lucky to make his cut, or they agree with his views. I will not tolerate that, and it’s a major turnoff.

              THREAD #4

              P4

              “It’s time that Black women do that across the board to all the artists who target Black women for their money and support to benefit non Black women., especially the ones who are blatantly putting non Black women on pedestals in their projects or portraying Black women negatively.”

              FAKE BW lover

              “Sounds like some Black men dumped you. Move on and find happiness

              Like many Black women, it’s a combination of your ATTITUDE and OBESITY that is hindering your ability to find love. Try and smile a little
              more…..that makes you approachable. Get your teeth fixed. Learn to
              cook…”

              P4

              “You’re white or a prideless KOon, I know for a fact that if an Asian male celeb showed up with a random white chick, it would be career suicide. The Asians chicks would make a Black twitter drag seem like child’s play…..they’re not playing that game with them and their celebs know it.”

              P5
              “Those asian women speak their mind and don’t play,they don’t hesitate to show their disapproval .”

              P4

              “Yep, trust me, I had a discussion with a few I know and no igs, anfs and buts could one of their date some random white chick and still have their support. They seem to think Rihanna with a Kpop singer would be an awesome idea, however.”

              FAKE BW lover

              “Nope….sorry, always dated Black women. But I recognize just how fpucked up they are from having to deal with them.”

              P1

              “You don’t have to though. You should definitely exercise your options. Bon voyage!”

              FAKE BW lover

              “an obese bottom dweller like you would never have a chance”

              P1

              “More racial profiling. Not only am I not obese, I am petite, into fitness, and vegan for many years! And I don’t want a sentence with you. Or as you call it, a “chance”.”

              THREAD #5

              P4

              “Stay bitter…….Black women will continue to withhold their support from men that do not support them or disparage them, it’s about time they stopped nurturing fools for the benefit of non Black women.

              BTW, how do you know Black women’s favorite show is Scandal, have you asked them all? Not everyone thinks being a Black side piece to a white man is something to glorify.”

              P6

              “WORD!!!! Stop checking for Scandal the moment I realized Harrison and Olivia would not be together!”

              ….

              P4

              “Sweetie, it’s different when your own doesn’t appreciate you…..no one expects white male celebs to date Black women….however, Brad Pitt, Robert DeNiro, Michael Fassbender, Colin Farrell and other white celebs definitely get bonus points for their appreciation of Black women.BTW, Hellboy/Sons of Anarchy/Beauty and the Beast actor Ron Perlman is married to a Black woman and Charlie Hunnam is a fan as well.

              It really matters when the general public can name 10 white actors in sixty seconds and couldn’t name 10 Black ones in five minutes and if the onet thhey do know are in an IR…., it’s a poor reflection on us that we accept things that others don’t. That’s why most Blacks in the media are paired with non Black women….because we said nothing and the silence is costing us in the fact that young Black males are finding others worthy while denigrating Black women.”

              THREAD #6

              P7

              “stfu, he made an observation from his IG and his girl’s IG and saw it was mostly dark skinned black women who had negative things to say..some of you are real haters of interracial relationships and he just called it like he saw it”

              P2

              ” And how he saw it was to call a black woman on his timeline’s natural hair “Chia pet”. That was how he saw it. Great. Well we called it how we saw it too. The result? Flop album and he’s admitting he wishes he was white.”

              ….
              P8

              “Why is he confused? Suppressing bw presence through the promotion of “others” and other-looking women in videos and public personas has opened the door to the dilution of both the sound and look of rnb and hip hop. Thus, the audience has become whitewashed; this audience demands whitewashed artists. Such artists as Tank have helped take themselves out of the game. You are to blame. Straight up black women bring legitimacy to all things black.

              Also, we know who our detractors are and we dont support them.”

              P9

              “lol. Black women put their money where their mouth was. He should never have popped up about us.Ask Young berg of the “darkbutt” saga. Maybe his damn near YT babymuva and her crew can buy his tanking album. We don’t care. Tank how does that double wood feel like? uy”

              ….

              P10

              ” Buh bye! LOL at this fool calling himself threatening us with quitting R&B. Tank never was a huge star. Never. And he should think before he speaks….he ostracized every darker hue woman when he accused them of being jealous of light skinned women just this past summer. Go get a job at the post office. Bye!”

              THREAD #7 (I’m tired of trying to protect identities now–It’s all online, anyway. LOL!)

              anonoymus • 8 hours ago

              I hear UPS is hiring ,, this dark black women is ordering from amazon and I expect my packages on time ! PETAL TO THE METAL ….TANK ….!

              CaribbeanGlow anonoymus • 8 hours ago

              And this black woman with flourishing hair like a plant, or a Chia pet as Tank would say, wants her stuff in time before leaving on vacation! Chop chop Mr. White-next-life!

              Lisa CaribbeanGlow • 8 hours ago

              Preach. I don’t support self hating black men that talk trash about black women, I don’t support Jungle Fever black men either. I don’t boycott, I simply use my entertainment dollars for those men both whit and black that like and respect black women!

              anonoymus • 8 hours ago

              Let me say one more thing and Im done sorry guys, I BOYCOTTED HIS ALBUM ON PURPOSE , I heard the song stronger and I think its good and the album is really good …but TANK sweetie ..smdh… WHEN YOU GOT BLACK WOMEN who love and support you and you INSULT THEM IN ANYWAY CONTINUOUSLY…. they pull their support from you bae… and for those who say our money doesnt matter and we as BLACK WOMEN DONT DRIVE the record sales of R&B … whats R&B your sales looking like now ? You had better days in sales didnt you TANK ? That was when we thought you loved us …but you showed your true colors …THANK YOU ..now that we know the deal …YOU KNOW OUR DEAL. WE DONT SUPPORT THOSE WHO SUPPORT THOSE WHO HATE US . HAVE A GOOD ONE.

              suganspice68 • 12 hours ago

              Since Tank feels that way,maybe he ought to cross over and become a country music singer.I am sure that The Grand Ole Opry will welcome him with open arms.Good riddance,coon!

              HONEYLOVE • 5 hours ago

              Black males are to stupid to realize they are the down fall of the black community.
              Just look at the way T.I. is pushing Iggy…. In about 5 years white people will have taken over Hip Hop Music. White people know that in order to keep black people from profiting and building all they need to do is put a white women within reach of a black male, because black males ONLY think with their d.!.(k.s… They don’t plan for their futures or future generations to come !

              HONEYLOVE • 6 hours ago

              Those of you who are SPEAKING TRUTH about Tank need to make twitter accounts and tweet your comments to him. Because, who knows if he will read your true words on this site.

              P.S. Black women (((( Listen Up )))) , Kevin Hart needs to be next. He cannot continue to belittle and disrespect black women and think he will still have a successful career. … You can show him better than you can tell him !

              IBeg2differ • 5 hours ago

              Lmao! freaking hilarious! Wasn’t he just dragging blk women? The very consumer that bought his music and put him in the position to be eligible for the taking for white women that he put on a pedastool… If they love and appreciate this blk man the way he thinks they do, then why didn’t they buy his album? Why does he have to be white (if the white women love blk men the way they say they do) for them to buy his album… Again LMAO

              Youknowwhatiitis • 6 hours ago

              Lmao…why doesn’t he ask his white girlfriend to throw him some white privilege, miss us “jealous darkies” with that bullsh|t. ROFL….

              I heard Walmart was hiring.

              ———

              ANYWAY, the examples continue and the comments keep coming. This post is already SUPER LONG, and we all need a rest.

              I just LMAO and felt QUITE HAPPY!

              🙂

              Liked by 1 person

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            • Khadija Nassif
              Dec 20, 2014 @ 16:25:35

              Formavitae,

              Thanks for sharing—that was hilarious—LOL! I’m waiting for Maxwell to get what he deserves for dissing his BW consumer base in favor of all his WW friends. Meanwhile, WW mysteriously don’t seem to buy any of his records.

              Again, it’s funny. At the beginning of BWE, Bitter Black males said that BWE/Common Sense bloggers were delusional and hallucinating when we urged AA women to explore ALL their dating and marriage options. Instead of being “nothin’ but a BM” women. Bitter BM said that quality WM (or any WM at all) would NEVER marry an AA woman.

              Well, in just a few short years (less than a decade, which is amazingly fast for any sort of mass social change), Bitter BM have seen so many WM marry AA women that they had to coin a new hateful term for these AA women who stepped off the radioactive “Black love” plantation: “bed wenches”.

              I’ve been laughing the entire time. Again, thanks for sharing those hilarious comments! 🙂

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              • Formavitae
                Dec 20, 2014 @ 17:33:17

                Khadija,

                Yes. You are MOST WELCOME.

                I believe we all need an infusion of comedy, from time to time.

                Those comments really MADE MY DAY! I went to that “whack” site just to read them.

                LOL!

                I’m looking forward to Maxwell getting his TOO. I just want these disloyal fools to keep exposing themselves and BW to keep waking up and redirecting their investments from these fools to their own pockets.

                I’ve been recovering from a cold, this week. As they say, “Laughter is the best medicine!”

                😀

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      • Formavitae
        Dec 19, 2014 @ 22:47:49

        Also, for those people who BEMOAN the displacement impact of gentrification and urban renewal in “racist America”, check out what these other black/colored countries are doing to black/colored people AROUND THE WORLD:

        http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/16/kalahari-bushmen-evicted-wilderness

        Like

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  26. Rosie Posie
    Dec 16, 2014 @ 12:56:05

    Reply

  27. HomesteadGlamourGirl
    Dec 16, 2014 @ 15:10:25

    Back to the post though, Neecy it is your blog and you must do what makes you comfortable. I guess I just don’t see how there would be less perceived snark if you drop the term “BWE”.

    Has this been building for a while? I do remember last year someone saying you didn’t “get it” (re: bwe principles etc.) but I didn’t realize it happened with any frequency.

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    • APA
      Dec 16, 2014 @ 17:20:00

      I think that it is an issue of being able to write and express your opinion without folks popping up to tell you that you are saying is sacrilege because it does not exactly line up with a blog post that they read on a BWE-associated site.

      By distancing herself from BWE, she can distance herself from the more staunch, zealous supporters of BWE. Some people act like BWE is a religion when it is essentially a compilation of the opinions of a group of women with similar values and world views. There is a lot of good information that BWE bloggers and supporters have shared in various online discussions. However, just because they shared a few pearls of wisdom doesn’t mean that they are your momma, your boss, or your god. You can disagree with them. In fact, you should disagree with them from time to time because not everything a stranger tells you online is applicable or beneficial to your life.

      I can’t speak for Neecy, but that is my understanding of what is going on.

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  28. Evia
    Dec 17, 2014 @ 06:55:34

    @APA re:

    Some people act like BWE is a religion when it is essentially a compilation of the opinions of a group of women with similar values and world views.

    IMO, the doctrines of ALL organized religions are also “essentially a compilation of the opinions of a group of women [people] with similar values and world views.” I say that because no one I know or ever heard of has ever been able to prove that any of the doctrines of organized religions actually came from our Creator. Most people choose the set of opinions, values, and world views, whether Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Bahai, Buddhism, etc.s that are best suited or most valid to them and their lives at particular times in their lives. This is why some people switch from being a Christian to being a Buddhist to being a Muslim, etc.

    As I said above, I’m a Common Sense writer and I’ve always urged or virtually begged my readers to take what you can use and trash the rest. I personally don’t need anyone to agree with me. I can stand alone. I’m happy I learned early in life to never court agreement from the crowd.

    I am very THANKFUL for self-described BWE writers like Halima, Khadija, and Faith (these are the only sites I’ve read on a regular basis over the years) because I’ve seen that their views represent sheer Common Sense. And to me, Common Sense is like GOLD. You could say it fits right in with my religious doctrine. Common Sense has always been supremely valuable to me and mine because I’ve seen the numerous payoffs of practicing it in so many ways in my life, my children’s lives and those around me, then and now. As far as I’m concerned, the overwhelming most of AAbw would be a heck of a lot better off adhering to the doctrine of BWE than they are when they keep trying to jump through hoops for Rev. So and So and the crew at the church.

    There is a lot of good information that BWE bloggers and supporters have shared in various online discussions. However, just because they shared a few pearls of wisdom

    Personally speaking, I’ve gained a HUGE number of “pearls of wisdom” from these writers over the years. They’ve opened up new ways of perceiving so many ideas and issues via the way they frame their positions, the nuances they highlighted, the way they’ve fleshed out critical details, etc.They’ve also been kindred spirits on this journey. I’m so THANKFUL.

    doesn’t mean that they are your momma . . .

    So glad you said this. There’s a term in psychiatry called “transference” whereby a patient begins to perceive their counselor or psychiatrist as their mother or other parenting figure and transfers their unresolved issues with their mother or parenting figure onto their psychiatrist or counselor and will begin to “act out” in therapy against their perceived “mother.” And oh boy! LOL! That’s why I’ve had to make it clear throughout my blogging stint and I know I’ve hurt some feelings along the way (and I’ve had to apologize for that), but Evia is not here to be a mommy poo or leader. I’ve sought “partners” to assist in completing projects that I’ve felt would uplift ALL of us, NEVER followers.

    Anyway, this is my last comment here. If anyone wants to respond to anything I’ve said here, please email me.

    All the Best to You, Neecy, and to everyone during this holiday season and during the upcoming year!

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    • Lynn
      Dec 17, 2014 @ 08:24:03

      @ Evia,

      I want to THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart for all the work that you have done and continue to do for BW’s collective uplift. I have personally experienced a huge shift upwards in the quality of my life by listening and incorporating “Common Sense” you, Khadija, Faith, and Halima have shared over the years on your sites. A few minor disagreements SOME audience members from time to time may have does not deter from all the great work that you do.

      Khadija’s and Halima’s posts on showing GRATITUDE really rang home to me. There are so many generous people like yourself who are ready and willing to extend themselves and help out; but you have to have the right mindset to receive it. Most people practice COMMON SENSE and will not extend themselves if it will bite them in their rear ends in the future. Too many BW are stuck in a certain ‘attitude’ or ‘mindframe’ where all these opportunities that are around them will never be utilized. Since I have started to express gratitude in various forms to people in my circles the amount of help and assistance that I have received has been incredible.

      Personally, I feel anytime you or any of the BWE founders have commented on various sites on different issues over the years has always benefited and elevated the conversations. I will be sad to see you leave this platform but I understand. Neecy, thank you for continuing to host these conversations!

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  29. neurochick
    Dec 17, 2014 @ 12:21:28

    I read the story of the 47 year old grandmother, caught stealing eggs,

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ala-brings-donations-hungry-granny-caught-stealing-article-1.2043297

    and I have to wonder. What is going to happen to her when all of the donations stop, because you know they will. I would not be surprised if she ends up in the same spot; because you can’t always throw money at people and hope they do the right thing.

    I watch the TV show “The Profit” on CNBC. What that show teaches me is that if the people are dysfunctional, so is the business and no amount of money can fix that because money can’t fix dysfunction.

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  30. Khadija Nassif
    Dec 17, 2014 @ 18:29:27

    Evia,

    You said, “I am very THANKFUL for self-described BWE writers like Halima, Khadija, and Faith (these are the only sites I’ve read on a regular basis over the years) because I’ve seen that their views represent sheer Common Sense. And to me, Common Sense is like GOLD. . . [ ] . . Personally speaking, I’ve gained a HUGE number of “pearls of wisdom” from these writers over the years. They’ve opened up new ways of perceiving so many ideas and issues via the way they frame their positions, the nuances they highlighted, the way they’ve fleshed out critical details, etc.They’ve also been kindred spirits on this journey. I’m so THANKFUL.”

    Thank you for your kind words, Evia. I feel exactly the same way about the MANY precious pearls of wisdom I’ve gotten from you and others. One pearl of wisdom can shave YEARS off a learning curve. Another pearl of wisdom can unlock all sorts of treasures (mental, spiritual, emotional, material) that rocket a person up into the penthouse levels of LIVING WELL. I’m so very thankful to have had you, Halima, Faith and some of the BWE readers as kindred spirits on the journey.

    You said, “There’s a term in psychiatry called “transference” whereby a patient begins to perceive their counselor or psychiatrist as their mother or other parenting figure and transfers their unresolved issues with their mother or parenting figure onto their psychiatrist or counselor and will begin to “act out” in therapy against their perceived “mother.” And oh boy! LOL!”

    OMG!!!! That’s EXACTLY what’s been going on with some of these angry, resentful readers who Call Themselves “Defying” BWE/Common Sense Bloggers (Who, Incidentally, Never Tried To Control What Anybody Was Doing)!

    All I knew was that emotionally-charged projection of a non-existent parent-child, mentor-mentee, guru-follower relationship/interaction onto BWE/Common Sense bloggers-Makes-My-Skin-Crawl. This “transference” mess explains why these resentful BW readers continue to read, keep up with, and care so very much about what we’re saying. Which is something else I couldn’t understand before you mentioned the transference phenomenon. Because people, places, things, or ideas that I dislike tend to drop off my personal radar fairly quickly. I’ll often give my views if I’m presented with something I disagree with. But the idea of chasing after and seeking out the views of people that I don’t respect makes no sense to me.

    Like I said earlier, I’m busy with my own life. The time I previously spent involved in BWE activism was a sacrifice I was willing to make because I wanted to (and did) pay it forward for the pearls of wisdom that you and other pioneers have given me. Been there, done that, now I’ve gotten into the habit of enjoying ALL my free time for myself—LOL!

    Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone! 🙂

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    • IamKM
      Dec 18, 2014 @ 09:36:43

      And I will piggy back off of this to say thank you to you, Evia, Halima, Aimee, Faith, CW, the foremothers of what became BWE. The pearls of wisdom I have received over the years on the blogs and through books I’ve purchased from Khadija and Evia have been literal lifesavers. I will be eternally grateful.

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  31. Neecy
    Dec 18, 2014 @ 09:14:52

    Oh wow I’ve been missing out on some good convo up in here!!

    Sorry y’all i didn’t abandon you, but I couldn’t sit down for a minute for the last week!

    I finally will be able to get back to posting later this evening.

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  32. Rae
    Dec 19, 2014 @ 04:36:57

    Black people have a very nasty way of attacking you with rage and indignation when you don’t agree with them when the topic of race is discussed. It’s like we can not have individual ideas and thoughts. I’ve noticed and observed this for a while now. It needs to stop.

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  33. APA
    Dec 20, 2014 @ 07:19:40

    Formavitae:

    The article that you linked to is why some African immigrants like my parents have no interest in returning to their countries. They realize that the system is inherently corrupt and rotten and want no part of it. Relatives have been trying to convince my parents to relocate to Nigeria for years. My parents have friends and relatives in Nigerian politics, so people are always telling them how much more money they could make (i.e. steal) if they returned home. However, my parents are not interested in returning home in order to perpetuate and participate in destructive system for their own personal gain. These same relatives will turn around and complain about how corruption and greed is destroying Nigeria. They will encourage others to steal and even steal themselves and then act surprised and frustrated that their country is unable to progress. As Khadija noted, black people are willing to sell themselves and their communities for a few dollars.

    It’s funny when you think about it. Black people IMO are obsessed with money and status. This obsession is why a lot of hip hop/rap music glorifies consumerism, materialism, and getting money at all cost. This obsession is also behind the ostentatious displays of wealth and plundering of governmental funds by prominent African officials. This also explains the penchant upwardly mobile African-Americans have for spending their money on expensive, consumer goods. However, even though they love money and power, they fail to make good decisions that would ensure their dominance as well as the well being of their racial and ethnic groups. Their love of money handicaps them and causes them to make rash and shortsighted decisions such as selling their resource-rich land for peanuts to outsiders or producing music and other forms of entertainment that denigrates their ethnicity. Another aspect in all of this is lack of self-respect that many black people have. We don’t value ourselves and believe that other groups are inherently superior, so we are willing to give up our valuable resources for crumbs because we erroneously think that what we have isn’t worth much anyway.

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    • Formavitae
      Dec 20, 2014 @ 16:28:46

      APA,

      Thank you, for being honest about the sentiments of your parents. I’ve noticed that many immigrants (not just African) are unwilling to be honest about the circumstances and conditions in their country that prompted them to leave and discourage them from returning.

      Reality is, POLITICS SUCKS, and corruption is EVERYWHERE–even here in the “home” that I LOVE. It’s just that one has to weigh the factors in EVERY SOCIETY to determine where they will have the most benefit and best opportunities for living. While SOME people choose to relocate, many people CHOOSE to STAY. They have reasons for doing so, ALSO. Every society have those who fare better and those who fare worse. I just want AA women to realize what they have HERE in THIS country, because so many seem to be willing to cast it away with no concerns for the lasting implications for THEIR OWN LIVES if the United States declines.

      Everyone has a “home” that they cherish in their hearts. I am by NO MEANS trying to deride anyone’s home. I’m just expressing that I understand the value of my own.

      My post wasn’t meant to say “Look how bad they have it.” It was meant to express, “The grass isn’t always greener on the other side.”

      I hope I didn’t offend anyone.

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    • Formavitae
      Dec 20, 2014 @ 16:29:46

      I ALSO cosign everything you said about blacks focus on material possessions and belief in their inferiority to others.

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  34. Evia
    Dec 20, 2014 @ 09:37:03

    I know I’ve said I’m going to step away from these comments, BUT since I’m considered a pioneer of BWE and I’m definitely a Common Sense writer and because I’ve participated in the commentary here, I have to make sure that I’m not roped in and slammed for SOME of what y’all are saying under the banner of BWE and Common Sense.

    For ex., Formavitae, you said:

    And, frankly, I’m tired of this FAKE “love” for Africa, when the majority of AAs know the LAST thing they want is “BLACK” skin and “NAPPY” hair.

    I’m happy you use the term “majority. Since I’m one AAbw (and I may be the ONLY one) who has gone on record to state many times in the various comments sections of BWE sites as well as on my Ezine my GREAT appreciation for many practices stemming from indigenous (not westernized) African culture, I feel I must respond to this. MY love for many practices of indigenous African culture will never change. I will stand up on any podium and declare that and I’ve done that in the presence of various people including whites. I personally know of various whites who have lived in Africa who also highly appreciate SOME aspects of African culture and they actually feel more “at home” spiritually in Africa (Tanzania, Kenya, etc.) than they do in the U.S. or Britain, for sure. The fact is that many of those cultural and societal practices were copied by Europeans and are now permanent fixtures inside various European cultures. Various white historians and cultural anthropologists have stated this This should not be surprising since numerous African physical artifacts are housed in European museums.

    Also, I have always liked blacker or darker skin since I’ve never accepted that anything is wrong or less-than about it. As for coiled hair, I’ve always wanted thicker hair, not longer or straighter hair. Y’all will just have to sue me or distance yourselves from me because I do see the beauty in darker or browner skin. I believe that most bw tend to want to be lighter and have longer straighter hair MAINLY to attract or appeal to BLACK men. PERIOD. I’ve never been that interested in appealing to bm; instead I’m only interested in quality men and I haven’t experienced a shortage. I will say it again. I’m convinced that the overwhelming most of wm who are attracted to bw or who would choose a bw as a mate do not care that a bw has dark or brown skin or actually prefers it. He also is not caught up with long straight or uncoiled hair. Yes, ALL men prefer attractive women, but many wm are able to see the attractiveness of browner skin and coiled hair since he has not be programmed to “dread” brown skin and coiled hair.

    Likewise, I don’t “dread” white skin. I’m therefore able to appreciate a wm’s attributes despite his skin.

    I realize that many people have been programmed to think there’s something wrong with darker skin, but I’ve also never seen anything particularly attractive about white skin or even light skin. I’ve always known that my brown complexion was very attractive, so I never wanted to be whiter. I have actually looked at white(r) skin objectively (or I think, as objectively as possible) and I don’t see any valid reason for why some people salivate over white(r) skin–aside from the fact that it’s connected closely with white hegemony or it’s because some bw obviously want to get the black man gaze. Also, in nature, and especially these days, skin shade alone carries very little actual survival or thriving value.

    What I admire tremendously about many white cultures (which has nothing to do with their skin shade) is that at some point in their history, they saw fit to have embedded in their various cultures a much more REALISTIC view of the way life really is and therefore react to it much more realistically and have therefore thrived. For ex., in my experience with whites and observations and studies of cultures, I’ve seen that many whites tend to be more nuanced thinkers than many blacks I’ve studied or encountered. I’ve noticed this among white children also (since my clients were mostly white children and young adults). This has nothing to do with I.Q. or natural intelligence; it has to do with CULTURE and the socialization process that children receive from the adults who shape them. I say that too because even some of the white youths and young adults who were gauged to have lower I.Qs still tended to be more nuanced thinkers.

    MOST Blacks I’ve encountered tend to be binary thinkers and are therefore very easy to predict and control. What I mean is that the bulk of AA blacks for sure tend to think in terms of “wrong or right,” “up or down,” “in or out”, “bad or good,” “the truth or a lie,” or a man is either ‘foine’ or he’s not, or to use what we’re talking about in this case “love of Africa or dislike of Africa, ” etc., etc. These are polar opposites but the reality of life points out that the overwhelming most points in life lie between these polar opposites and therefore, many of those points are highly advantageous to those who can recognize and exploit those points. However, since only a minority of blacks I’ve encountered are nuanced thinkers. They overlook many points that they could exploit to enhance their lives. This is why they don’t see or refuse to see many opportunities around them. Refusing to see opportunities makes life easier for them.

    I have always been a nuanced thinker. My ex-husband, a Nigerian, is also a nuanced thinker. I’m strongly attracted to nuanced thinkers–both women and men. Nuanced thinkers are almost always going to be more successful than binary thinkers in just about all realms of life. I very deliberately taught my sons to be nuanced thinkers. Yeah, it may be easier to be a binary thinker and that can be useful sometimes, but you miss out on so many opportunities that exist between polar opposites.

    Lastly, I’m not with Darren because of his white skin and his straight hair: I’m with him because he’s a CQLL man. I feel I have to repeat this to various readers because apparently SOME binary thinking bw are mesmerized by white skin (since black MALES are mesmerized by white skin) and obviously think that Evia is saying they should ‘go get them a white man’ because he’s white or the opposite of a black man. LOL! Or they think I’m indirectly saying they should mate with a wm in order to lighten their children or to have kids with uncoiled or less coiled hair. I know they interpret my message that way because over the years, they send me pics of themselves with their lighter children with uncoiled hair and expect for me to pat them on the back and say, “You did GOOD, Girl!” LOL They think I’m impressed by their having a wm mate, when I’m ONLY impressed by people who have the grit to shape their world in order to LIVE WELL. In the final analysis, that’s all that matters. I’ve encountered dark people who have done that, so skin shade alone doesn’t prevent that and lighter skin alone doesn’t make that happen.

    So, I was compelled to make it clear that I’m not one of those blacks who covets white skin in uncoiled hair.

    Furthermore, I’m tired of AAs acting like life would be SO MUCH BETTER for the world and black people were it not for slavery and the colonization of Africa. I cannot say what would have happened if those events had never occurred. However, NONE of those events occurred without the ASSISTANCE of the BM, at some CRUCIAL point.

    Liked by 1 person

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    • Formavitae
      Dec 20, 2014 @ 16:51:41

      Evia,

      My commentary about ” ‘FAKE’ love for Africa” was not in reference to you or any other people who genuinely love, care, and appreciate the various cultures and continent of Africa.

      What I was really addressing is this LONGSTANDING SPIEL AAs have been promoting/running FOR YEARS about “Africa”, “pan-Africanism”, “black pride”, etc. etc., all the while promoting white/mixed standards for beauty/acceptance/worthiness for their women and children, all the while neglecting authentically BW (including beauties like Dorothy Dandridge, who wasn’t very Negroid herself) in favor of non-black sex and blood. I’m addressing those “FAKE” lovers of Africa who feel all they need are dashikis, Ankhs, African carvings/canes, and Kent e cloth to love Africa, all the while only wanting to breed with women who have lighter skin and straighter hair. I’m talking about AAs ignoring the “elephant in the room” that (GENERALLY) they want people who pass the paper bag test and deny the visibility of the black/African ancestors from which they come.

      My comment wasn’t REALLY about “DARK” skin or “NAPPY” hair. It’s about THE LIES AAs perpetuate to disguise the rejection that they have for things AUTHENTICALLY black and African. Sure, they accept Arab and Indian black hybrids. But, what about the PURE blacks of Africa who do not possess the thinner noses, lighter skin, and straighter hair? THAT’S what I was referring to.

      I understand why you felt the need to clarify your position, as there seem to have been so many mis-communications and misunderstandings as of late. I HOPE my position is clearer as well.

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    • Formavitae
      Dec 20, 2014 @ 16:53:55

      Evia,

      And, yes, I 100% agree with this statement:

      ” I believe that most bw tend to want to be lighter and have longer straighter hair MAINLY to attract or appeal to BLACK men. PERIOD.”

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  35. HomesteadGlamourGirl
    Dec 20, 2014 @ 09:53:14

    I’ve been thinking about nuance as it relates to the way AAs act, in particular politically, to drill holes in our own boat(s). Sigh.

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  36. Khadija Nassif
    Dec 20, 2014 @ 10:50:28

    Evia,

    You said, “I know I’ve said I’m going to step away from these comments, BUT since I’m considered a pioneer of BWE and I’m definitely a Common Sense writer and because I’ve participated in the commentary here, I have to make sure that I’m not roped in and slammed for SOME of what y’all are saying under the banner of BWE and Common Sense.”

    Okay, now you’ve mentioned the nitty-gritty that I’ve up to now refrained from saying in public.

    Speaking for myself (and only myself): Some readers don’t understand why I sometimes feel the need to join these conversations at other BW-centric blogs. And some of y’all get angry when I join some of these conversations and point out the ways in which I feel that SOME of y’all are getting it twisted. I do this because I know that BWE will be held responsible for some of the off-kilter things some folks are saying at various BW-centric blogs. I know this, and I’m very protective of BWE’s victory. I don’t want confused AAs to do BWE the way we’ve done so many earlier ideas and movements. I’ve talked about this before:

    -“Most AAs have deeply embedded slave programming on top of the everyday collection of human frailties shared by all humans. Most AAs have been successfully programmed to sabotage anything that could possibly enhance or save their lives.

    Most AAs will take anything and everything and twist it around into something destructive. AAs take new ideas and superimpose their same old, dysfunctional thought patterns onto the new idea. In the end, the new idea become merely a new slogan that’s used to justify the same old dysfunctional behavior.

    This is why AAs have turned every past solution into a new catastrophe. There are almost endless examples of this. We collectively did the “bait and switch” with many past solutions. We took desegregation and turned it into a pretext for engaging in a permanent, undeclared boycott against all Black-owned businesses (with the partial and dwindling exception of barbershops and hair salons).

    We took the language of multiculturalism and turned it into a pretext for maintaining our racial self-hatred and internal colorism. And there’s usually a sophisticated and fundamentally dishonest discourse surrounding each “bait and switch” episode.

    I was afraid of a similar “bait and switch” takeover happening to BWE.“—

    http://muslimbushido.blogspot.com/2014/01/basking-in-victory-of-bwe_12.html

    So, whenever anybody feels the need to announce that they’re not part of BWE, I rejoice. Because anybody who feels the need to step away from BWE should step away from BWE. Fast, quick and in a hurry. Because, in my view, the need to make that kind of announcement comes from a place of not being “like-minded” enough to properly safeguard the BWE message. Which is okay. It’s best for them to step away from BWE, because I’d rather not have the risk of BWE held accountable for messages that might or might not be in alignment with BWE’s core values. Everything is not for everybody. And that’s perfectly fine.

    BWE is not a high school clique or club. Ideas have real-world effects. Some ideas (mammyism, “Save our young BM—at the expense of BW and Black children,” “Give a brother a chance,” common sense = “respectability politics,” etc.) destroy ambition, destroy decency, and destroy lives.

    BWE is not a religion. None of the legitimate BWE bloggers have ever claimed there’s only “one, true path” to AA women enjoying abundant lifestyles. Or that BWE is that [non-existent] “one, true path.” To even frame the issue that way is some more of that “transference” acting-out behavior that Evia described in an earlier comment. There are other modes of thought that can help AA women achieve abundant lifestyles.

    I’m simply saying that AAs have a hard-core, heavy duty mental inclination and history of getting good ideas twisted all the way around into their same, old dysfunctional programming. The historical behavior pattern is that AAs want to keep doing what they’ve always been doing (or not doing), and somehow get a brand new result. Which is why AAs twist new ideas around into a new slogan that’s used to justify their same old dysfunctional behavior. I don’t want people doing that with BWE.

    Liked by 1 person

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  37. Evia
    Dec 20, 2014 @ 10:52:46

    Oops, I had meant to address the last paragraph above from this comment Formavitae made.

    Furthermore, I’m tired of AAs acting like life would be SO MUCH BETTER for the world and black people were it not for slavery and the colonization of Africa. I cannot say what would have happened if those events had never occurred. However, NONE of those events occurred without the ASSISTANCE of the BM, at some CRUCIAL point.

    First, let me say that ALL of the Africans I’ve mingled among are over 40, so I don’t know what the younger under-40 set is like. Yes, African MEN leaders sold Africans into slavery, many cooperated 100% with their colonizers, and it’s African MEN due to patriarchy who are selling the continent to the various bidders these days. However, IMO, bw on this side of the world would be so much better off if they were able to train themselves to entirely not think about black MEN. EVER. Just a suggestion. LOL

    I believe that although many Africans are mesmerized by whites and corrupt African leaders have destroyed their societies and sold out for the dollar in order to mainly “strut and show off”–as has been stated above and by me at various times. But my nuanced eyes have seen that many fortyish or mid-thirties African individuals who were raised in Africa and come to this country STILL have a great advantage over typical AAs because these Africans still practice large chunks of their CULTURE–in America. Some blacks here are convinced that only the best and the brightest of Africans actually come to this country. I don’t necessarily agree with that because I’ve met a lot of Africans over the 4 decades that I’ve mingled closely with them here and in Africa and SOME of them who come here can not be accused of being intelligent! But what gives them a super advantage here is that they tend to help and support each other in ways and to an extent that is just unbelievable to many AAs. CULTURE. There’s no denying that that particular cultural practice of support by other Africans here gives them an incredible edge in a society like this one. That is an invisible but huge asset they have that many of them have that works for them. I’ve seen numerous times how they make sure they help each other to get select jobs, get housing, get loans, get into top programs in colleges, get vital info to secure various other goodies, etc. I still see this all the time. For ex., my ex-husband once asked me to use my MC to borrow money ($5,000) to send one of his 2nd cousins to pay for the family’s plane fare to this country. They never paid me back. LOL When they got here, they lived with us for about 9 months and didn’t pay anything of course. He and I drove them around all of those months and helped them to get on their feet and now the man is pulling in a hefty salary. I helped various ones of them in other ways too, and this is because I was married to an African.

    This support never ends because it’s a key aspect of their CULTURE but they DO reciprocate, so I don’t care about being paid that money back. This is one of those “best cultural practices” in action that I’m referring to and this is also why I stress the need for support and culture among AAbw. But y’all don’t have to pay any attention to me. I’m just talking about what I see that works. I’ve SEEN how it benefits them.. NOT saying this always works out well or perfectly though. Right now, I’m helping a friend of my ex to find a short-sale condo to buy. I spent time searching out various options for him. I hope he doesn’t ask me for a loan. LOL

    But this is similar to me saying that my old school cultural practices definitely give me an edge compared to most new school AA women. AAs used to help each other A LOT.

    I have an amazing Yoruba goddaughter who came to this country when she was about 15 and it’s just amazing how easily she’s been able to navigate this society! Her early life was not easy, by far. But if typical AA women her age were to study this woman and make half the moves she did, they would be living well too. Many of her moves were shaped by her CULTURAL background along with her wonderful personal attitude about life. She and her husband (an African man) are living VERY WELL. They both have graduate degrees, of course, but she’s a stay-at-home mom (3 children doing all doing very well in an expensive prep school), live in a fabulous home, etc. because her husband makes a healthy way over 6-figure income. As a matter of fact, I’ve talked with her about me, her, and my Iranian friend teaming up to write a book/blog on parenting pointers, especially for black children. Black children in this country greatly need to be parented better!

    Okay, that’all.

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    • HomesteadGlamourGirl
      Dec 20, 2014 @ 11:16:56

      Well you know I would buy that book.
      Also,I publicly commit here and now to purchase a pair of your mittens by December 31st

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    • Formavitae
      Dec 20, 2014 @ 17:24:35

      Evia,

      Again, my commentary is more related to the talk I’ve often heard from AAs regarding black/African “kings”, “queens”, “Presidents”, “leaderships”, “kingdoms”, “states”, etc.–The idea that having a black “leader” would automatically lead to better/”best” outcomes for blacks, while having white leadership automatically leads to “worst” outcomes for blacks. IMO, a lot of these questions about what it would be like to have black/colored leadership could be reasonably answered by just looking around the world and observing countries under such leadership today. Granted, many/most/if not ALL of these countries have been under WHITE colonization at some point in time, but that still doesn’t completely nullify the responsibility these leaders have for the exercise of their own VOLITION.

      As far as Africans are concerned, THEY DO benefit from possessing and adhering to a cultural framework which AAs lack. And, as you noted, many of them are doing quite well and THRIVING in countries under the “white man’s” leadership. Many are also thriving in THEIR OWN countries.

      Africans and AAs are distinct groups (of which I know you are FULLY AWARE). I want AA women to realize what THEY HAVE as citizens of the United States and that the United States DOES offer A LOT. They don’t have to keep fantasizing about “what would/could be” if we had no history of slavery/black leadership/white colonization etc. YES, colonization impacted MANY groups, psychologically. But, we all still have an opportunity TO CHOOSE how we will think and function, once we reach a certain age.

      In relation to your binary thinking commentary, I think a lot of that has to do with religion and teachings related to “good/evil”, “sin/righteousness”. Since I am a Christian, myself, I do not disagree with those concepts. However, I consider other factors that impact certain things that religious people may or may not want to acknowledge. A lot of that is the result of my studies in political science and African history. I saw the world in a way I never saw it before.

      Lastly, I agree AA women should stop thinking/worrying about BM PERIOD. What I’ve noticed is that various groups of younger BM (including African) are attempting to emulate AA male patterns of success through breeding and relationships with women who produce children with reduced blackness. I’ve dated two African men (one Nigerian, one Moroccan). I had positive experiences with both. But, from what I can see, unless an African man (or a YOUNGER) is following tradition or JUST WANTS a BW, they try to choose status symbols keeping with the AA male status quo–NON/HALF BLACK.

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    • Formavitae
      Dec 20, 2014 @ 22:41:13

      Evia,

      Another comment about this “FAKENESS” which I’m addressing:

      If given a free ticket and seed money for establishing a new life/country/state in Africa, how many AAs (particularly “pro-black”, “pan-African”, BM “leaders”) would take it, if it were a one-way ticket with no further access to “white” (non-black) countries/societies/women? And, let’s eradicate African countries with HIGHLY MIXED populations from the list.

      How many of these AAs are GENUINELY interested in establishing strong, successful, AUTHENTICALLY BLACK (not NON black with a black LABEL) societies, families and economies? How many are truly willing to put in the time and make the necessary sacrifices to build a sustainable infrastructure for such people? How many are willing to forfeit their close proximity to and engagements with nonblack people (women AND men)? How many would still feel proud, if they looked outside their doors and never saw a nonblack face?

      We can draw a reasonable conclusion by just looking at the choices made with the economic and other resources they CURRENTLY have.

      THIS is the “FAKENESS” I’m talking about. THIS is the HYPOCRISY I’m talking about.

      All this negative talk about the United States and other Western countries, while simultaneously cleaving to them, begging them for acceptance, and refusing to go off on your own WITH your own doesn’t “sit” well with me. It’s all “smoke” and no SUBSTANCE.

      I’m disappointed with certain circumstances in the United States. Yet, I’m patriotic. I believe MORE Americans need to be patriotic-PARTICULARLY AA women. The rest of the non-Western world lets us know how wonderful the United States is EVERY DAY. WE’RE BLESSED. And, those of us who are “clueless” better WAKE UP, before our blessings are gone for good.

      None of my statements are meant to be accusatory towards anyone posting or anyone in particular. I’m just expressing my GENERALIZED frustrations with the lack of appreciation and recognition SOME people have for the opportunities in THIS country and the sacrifices THEIR ancestors made to SECURE THEM.

      That is all.

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      • Khadija Nassif
        Dec 21, 2014 @ 08:10:15

        Formavitae,

        You said, “If given a free ticket and seed money for establishing a new life/country/state in Africa, how many AAs (particularly “pro-black”, “pan-African”, BM “leaders”) would take it, if it were a one-way ticket with no further access to “white” (non-black) countries/societies/women? And, let’s eradicate African countries with HIGHLY MIXED populations from the list.”

        Oh no, not *that* for the loud-talking, do-nothing FAKE “pan-Afrikan” (you know they love their idiosyncratic mis-spellings of Africa and America) African-American males! The only “black” stuff or people they love are mixed Black + Other Hybrids. Their long-observed actions tell that tale about all of that. The FAKE “pan-Afrikan” negro males only like Egypt because it’s mixed and also because White people admire ancient Egypt.

        The Mooz-lim FAKE “pan-Afrikan” negro males (that I had the misfortune of observing at an “orthodox” AA mosque I used to attend years ago) only admire Ay-rab Muslim countries and Ay-rab women (that they purchase from Morocco). [I say “Mooz-lim” instead of Muslim because there’s nothing genuinely Islamic about their expressed thoughts and views.]

        They’ve exchanged worshipping an Aryan White European Jesus for [prohibited under Islamic law] worshipping an Arab Muhammad (PBUH) and Arabs in general. They are pagans in their worship of nonblack flesh. They do this even though there’s a real problem with Arab (and Pakistani) anti-Black racism. This website is a rabidly bigoted anti-Muslim site, but the problem it’s discussing is real. It’s also one of the reasons why I have zero affection for the masses of immigrant Muslims.
        http://www.barenakedislam.com/2014/02/28/a-new-black-muslim-campaign-demands-drop-the-a-word-an-arabic-racial-slur-against-blacks/

        One of the main slavery-experience-based, spirit-breaking, and mind-breaking history-induced + misleadership in search of allies-induced problems among AAs is the lack of self-confidence to be willing to “go it alone.” Meaning NOT slavishly running up behind other people (foreign Blacks, Latinos, Asians, Native Americans, other so-called people of color) begging these other people to befriend us.*

        [*It’s been hilarious to see one of the Suddenly Aware of BM Nationalist Hypocrisy BM Nationalists has been smacking all the Black Nationalist “Red & Black Together” Indian lovers in the head with the ugly history of Native Americans as [vicious and cruel] slave owners. He’s been quoting from the book discussed (and quoted from) in this article.
        http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/655380/posts

        “CHEROKEE SLAVE REVOLT OF 1842: American Indians as Slave Owners” by Art T. Burton.]

        You said, “All this negative talk about the United States and other Western countries, while simultaneously cleaving to them, begging them for acceptance, and refusing to go off on your own WITH your own doesn’t “sit” well with me. It’s all “smoke” and no SUBSTANCE.

        I’m disappointed with certain circumstances in the United States. Yet, I’m patriotic. I believe MORE Americans need to be patriotic-PARTICULARLY AA women. The rest of the non-Western world lets us know how wonderful the United States is EVERY DAY. WE’RE BLESSED. And, those of us who are “clueless” better WAKE UP, before our blessings are gone for good.”

        HEAR, HEAR!!!!!! One of the things I’ve noticed over the years as I’ve traveled in Western Europe is how FAR behind the U.S. those countries are in the advancement of their racial minorities. You don’t routinely see the volume of nonwhite faces as journalists on the evening news that you’ll see on American TV. Now, MY experiences in Western Europe have mostly been good because AAs are perceived as “exotic” over there—much the way foreign Blacks are perceived here in the U.S. [It’s much easier for folks to be friendly and open to you if you’re NOT part of any shared negative history with them.]

        I mean, really now, why haven’t AAs stopped to ponder why various Black Brits like Idris Elba and the 12 Years a Slave folks and others apparently had to run all the way to the U.S. to get their acting careers moving? All while impersonating AAs in their roles . . .

        And that’s the Western European countries I’ve been to [France, Spain, Italy, Greece, with stopovers in the UK and Germany]. Eastern European countries don’t even pretend to be interested in the fate of their nonwhite minorities.

        And non-European, non-Western countries Don’t. Care. At. All. about the fate of immigrant racial minorities OR their own indigenous racial minorities.

        I’m saying all of this to say: If the African-American just can’t make in the U.S., where exactly on this planet can the AA survive and thrive?

        Answer: NOWHERE.

        We obliviously whine about so many things that are actually blessings. I’ll mention one such thing and then get off my soapbox—LOL! In the AA hair salon I go to there was once a loud salon-wide discussion going on about the Chicago public schools. Woman after woman was ragging on the public schools. All that talk dried up when I pointed out that most countries in the world DON’T have free public school systems. And that in most countries, parents MUST come out of their own pockets to buy ALL the school essentials for their child AFTER paying the school tuition fees.

        Folks in the salon *really* didn’t like it when I finished my remarks by noting that most schools systems on this planet don’t allow parents to use the schools as a free babysitting service, which is what most AA parents do. It is what it is.

        You said, “None of my statements are meant to be accusatory towards anyone posting or anyone in particular. I’m just expressing my GENERALIZED frustrations with the lack of appreciation and recognition SOME people have for the opportunities in THIS country and the sacrifices THEIR ancestors made to SECURE THEM.”

        HEAR, HEAR!!!!! I feel exactly the same way. I’m so very sick of what sounds to my ears like “crippled” talk. And talk that enables “crippled” behavior patterns. While zillions of other modern day people (including dirt poor 3rd world immigrants, and in the past many of our parents and grandparents) hit the ground running to grab all the opportunities they could in the U.S., too many 21st century AABW are whining about how they “need” Special Crutch 1, 2, 3 unto Infinity before they can even *think* about moving forward into abundant life.

        I’m irritated whenever I hear anything that sounds like that type of Enabling Crippled Behavior talk. But then I remember that windows of wide-open opportunity are beginning to close as the economy continues to shrink. And normal people with normal family structures are beginning to close ranks. Normal American citizens who care about the U.S. will begin reclaiming the areas that have been destroyed in large part due to the chaos and violence created by AAs’ Bastard Baby Lifestyles (such as what’s happening in Detroit).

        And anybody whose mindset consists of the various self-othering, self-defeating slogans and mantras that have been discussed at various blogs will continue to be totally isolated from everybody ELSE in the U.S. And such folks will ultimately find themselves on the outside of a peace wall looking in. They’ll still be talking all that same whining talk about “barriers” to this, and “barriers” to that, crime in the [dead] AA community, “save our young BM,” “no justice, no peace,” etc., etc.

        But nobody else in the U.S. will hear them. And nobody else in the U.S. will care. As the tagline to the Alien movie stated: In space nobody can hear you scream.

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        • HomesteadGlamourGirl
          Dec 21, 2014 @ 08:58:10

          Sigh.I wanted to scream when I saw black folks talking about “buying black” as a form of protest in the wake of recent court decisions. Meaning there is no need to support black business in the absence of some acute situation or other. That says it all.

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          • Khadija Nassif
            Dec 21, 2014 @ 09:27:14

            Yep, THAT said it all. Hmmph.

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          • Formavitae
            Dec 21, 2014 @ 14:46:45

            HomesteadGlamourGirl,

            Yes. AAs have no ETHNIC COMMON SENSE. It’s a pity and a shame. Unfortunately, they only work together “in spurts”, if at all. Their concept of “progress” centers around their interaction WITH OTHERS not what they achieve ON THEIR OWN. Khadija mentioned that, in her reply to my post.

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        • Formavitae
          Dec 21, 2014 @ 14:42:38

          Khadija,

          BM are so pathetic in their “slavishness”, YET they don’t want to be called “slaves” (“Abeed”). Well, I don’t appreciate the usage, but I’m more disturbed by the fact that Arabs still enslave blacks TODAY. Shouldn’t the BM be speaking out against THAT more than the usage of the word itself? Whatever. It isn’t anything I’m going to stress. Because, even with BLATANT, “IN YOUR FACE” racism/discrimination, BM will still be extolling Arabs/Red Indians/others and BEGGING for their female “scraps”. I don’t have time to care.

          Thanks for sharing both articles. They were informative. I appreciate them because it helps dispel that MYTH in AA heads (perpetuated by AA “leadership”) that slavery/injustice to blacks is a “WM’s” problem and that “all colored people” are our allies. (eyeroll) I’m especially tired of the BM promotion of Hispanics as some type of allies of AAs. After learning of the history of discrimination, prejudice, enslavement, and MURDER/ethnic cleansing of not only blacks, but indigenous Americans, I realized how “White Supremacist” Hispanics TRULY ARE. They just use AA BM FOOLS to gain entry into networks and wealth they would not otherwise have in this country. But, I’ve noticed, they’ve been working hard to become accepted in the mainstream (articles on popular websites about Hispanic/Latin American holiday traditions, etc.). Once they’ve gained a foothold, they’ll toss AAs to the curb (except those DUMMIES who are still will to give them MASSIVE amounts of wealth in exchange FOR NOTHING–like Kobe Bryant).

          Frankly, I’m tired of AAs being used, by foreigners (including foreign blacks), other colored people, lower status whites, etc. But, BM are going to keep access to AA resources open to others, because they are SO DESPERATE to be with others in an effort to erase what they TRULY dislike–THEMSELVES. So, AA women need to protect their own resources from being misappropriated and pilfered.

          I’m glad you told those ladies what you did about the schools. If AAs don’t appreciate and take care of the schools/teachers, they’re eventually going to lose them, because people are going to continue to waste their money and tolerate abuse. But, then, Lil Wayne, Kanye, an ‘nem want your children to know school is bvllsh*t ANYWAY.

          It’s nice to hear there are places AA women have a chance to be perceived as interesting and “exotic”. I think all women need an opportunity to have a unique and special “appreciation”.

          Frankly, I’M GLAD, “normal” families are beginning to fight back and attempt to “reclaim” the United States. This is a BEAUTIFUL country and should not be WASTED. I noted in Lynn’s article on Detroit how they were discussing the lovely neighborhoods and beautiful downtown. Infrastructure is expensive to provide and maintain, and economically, it’s best to have things, people, activities clustered/more highly concentrated. Before, people were headed for the outskirts and leaving the city cores for the poor and disenfranchised. Now that the value of the city core and centralization are being acknowledged (due to various changes), it seems there is a reversal in development patterns. This is something which interests me and I will be noting in the upcoming years. Bottomline, AAs need to get themselves together economically, mentally, behaviorally so that they will not be shut out from the security of a STABLE society.

          GOOD DISCUSSION.

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          • Khadija Nassif
            Dec 21, 2014 @ 15:02:38

            Formavitae,

            You’re welcome, and just like you, I also don’t have time to care anymore. I’ve lost all patience with do-nothing enabling excuses because I did my best to warn AA women about all of these sorts of developments YEARS ago. If the women who’ve been reading the legitimate BWE blogs as entertainment only chose to waste valuable preparation time, that’s on them. In terms of the AA collective, the future is NOW—and it’s not pretty.

            As I said in a post from 5 years ago (and in a comment to that post that’s partially quoted below)(emphasis added in bold):

            http://muslimbushido.blogspot.com/2009/08/geostrategy-nerd-federal-government-is.html

            “. . . Well, if this does happen, it will happen in a way that benefits the wealthy who remain in these cities. I’ve mentioned this before, but I’m beginning to suspect that the American powers that be have decided to take up the French model of maintaining cities.

            For example, the French DON’T allow undesirables (the poor and immigrants) to mess up THEIR cities, especially jewels in the crown like Paris, etc. In France, the slums are in the suburbs, and the centers of cities are kept nice.

            People, Get Ready!

            Peace, blessings and solidarity.
            August 4, 2009 at 8:42 PM”

            Essentially, AAs squandered the opportunities presented by living in city centers (which are close to a city’s main economic activities—also known as jobs) for decades. Well, White folks realized they made a mistake by abandoning the city centers to nonproductive AAs, and they’re taking these places back. As they should. Since AAs didn’t bother to do anything productive with these areas FOR DECADES. A lot of AABW will be caught out in the cold by these changes. Which is what’s already been happening in Detroit. Oh, well. . . . they were warned. Horse. Water. Drink.

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          • Khadija Nassif
            Dec 21, 2014 @ 15:26:44

            Formavitae,

            You said, “It’s nice to hear there are places AA women have a chance to be perceived as interesting and “exotic”. I think all women need an opportunity to have a unique and special “appreciation”.”

            Let me emphasize that this only works right IF one carries oneself in a respectable way. Shades of those pesky “respectability politics.”

            I’m not going to call the woman’s name (or name the country), but there has been a BW blogger who (as I recall, I haven’t read her blog in quite some time):

            (1) went to Western Europe,

            (2) didn’t bother to even try to learn the language (even a few phrases goes a long way—with folks who aren’t French (LOL!)—non-French people appreciate a guest making the effort to try to learn their language (the French are prickly about their language and culture, but on the other hand they have a lot of good stuff to be proud of),

            (3) didn’t bother to try to learn the cultural expectations, which led to her having debates with minor government officials (a major NO-NO as a guest),

            (4) ultimately had a “swirl” bastard baby over there, and of course signed up for the FOR-NOW generous government benefits,

            (5) from what one could see in the photos she posted, routinely dressed in a revealing (and inappropriate—it’s best to dress conservatively when in somebody ELSE’s country) manner—-

            —-and then wondered aloud in multiple blog posts Why, Lawd, why?” wasn’t she being treated with respect by the typical random “native” over there. As if it was a mystery. Maybe she was mystified, but I wasn’t as I lurked and read her blog.

            Ladies, Please—for the love of God, DON’T do what this chick did (as I described above). Don’t ruin what might be a needed safe haven for sensible AA in the future!

            Right now, AA women visitors are generally perceived as “exotic” and “nice” in these places. Don’t ruin it and give us a trashy image by engaging in the foolish behaviors this woman engaged in.

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            • Formavitae
              Dec 21, 2014 @ 16:38:32

              Khadija,

              “(3) didn’t bother to try to learn the cultural expectations, which led to her having debates with minor government officials (a major NO-NO as a guest),”

              WOW.

              Embarrassing. The whole situation.

              “Let me emphasize that this only works right IF one carries oneself in a respectable way.”

              ABSOLUTELY.

              One good thing is that the majority of AA “ratchets” can’t economically afford to travel (and, in turn, tarnish our image). UNFORTUNATELY, we still have those (frequently never married) “housewives”/”wives” who have the economic backing to go overseas, act a fool (aka “Keep It Real”), ALL for money and ratings.

              Sigh…

              I HOPE AA women won’t/wouldn’t do so (tarnish our image internationally). But, many are TOO STUPID to realize that crap isn’t considered “cute” anywhere else other than their own foolish minds and enclaves.

              Liked by 1 person

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            • Lulu
              Dec 24, 2014 @ 18:44:42

              I’m pretty sure I know who you’re talking about. What I couldn’t get over was the video of her totally alone in her hospital room, days before the baby was born, dealing with unexpected complications and crying her eyes out about being all alone and stressed and scared. The baby daddy was nowhere to be found, apparently. SMH. I could not believe this was a grown woman carrying on like this, as if all of this was just an accident that she had no control over.

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              • Khadija Nassif
                Dec 24, 2014 @ 20:29:02

                Lulu,

                It’s good that I did NOT see that video. It sounds distressing. 😦

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              • Rae
                Dec 25, 2014 @ 03:38:38

                Who are you guys talking about ?
                I read one that moved to Germany and she had a baby out of wedlock too. Now every time the topic of black women going to Europe for love she goes ‘well I’m a single mom, so it’s not a holy grail!’. The whole time I’m thinking well you did have a baby out of wedlock which was a conscious decision !!!! I read her story, there were so many signs for her. http://www.matermea.com/nicole-blake/
                I think the biggest problem with black women around the world is most do not grow up seeing healthy relationships.

                I also was on a Facebook group for black woman and a woman who lives in Europe said she’s starting to see more black women with swirl babies who are single mothers! I’m pretty sure they all have had babies out of wedlock! Sigh..

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                • Khadija Nassif
                  Dec 25, 2014 @ 07:57:41

                  Rae,

                  You said, “Who are you guys talking about ?”

                  I HOPE NOBODY ANSWERS THIS QUESTION. IF YOU KNOW, PLEASE DON’T TELL.

                  The point of my earlier comment was to discuss some self-sabotaging, self-othering behaviors to be avoided by those BW who haven’t already made these sorts of errors in judgment.

                  NOT to humiliate another BW blogger.

                  So, if you happen to know who this blogger is, please DON’T tell during this conversation.

                  Liked by 1 person

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                • Lulu
                  Dec 25, 2014 @ 10:19:57

                  Wow, at that link you posted, Rae. I know it’s supposed to be an uplifting site for black mothers, but geez, so few of them are actually married. And the heartbreaking stories, my goodness. The woman we were talking about was abandoned by her baby daddy when she was 8 weeks pregnant. He told her explicitly that he did not want kids. They broke up, got back together, agreed to have a baby, then he vanished. And then she goes on to whine about how he’s not a part of the child’s life and how she’s just gonna love her baby twice as heard to make up for daddy not being there. I just…SMH. And now she just can’t figure out how she ended up in this situation. REALLY?!! I can’t with this woman. Then there’s another lady, a Black Twitter celeb, featured on that sight who got pregnant during an ugly separation from her boyfriend. WHAT?! She said the pregnancy was a “sign”. As if her failure to use birth control was not the cause. It was “God”. A “sign”. These are adult women in their late 20s and 30s and they don’t understand their own damn bodies.

                  Honestly, I hate to say this, but I feel like adult black American women have less of an understanding of how their bodies work than the average 15 year old non-black girl. It’s crazy to me. It’s one thing if they would just say, “yeah, I didn’t protect myself and I got pregnant”. But no, it’s never that. It’s never biology with them. Pregnancy is something that just happens. It’s divine intervention and something they had no control over. These are EDUCATED adult black women talking like this. I just don’t understand it at all.

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                  • Rae
                    Dec 25, 2014 @ 13:12:26

                    Wow! The same thing happend to the woman in the link I posted! And yes it seems like very black centers website is stories filled with dysfunction. I have to remember this is normal to most black woman and black families. I can not say the same for me and mine. If a man says he don’t want children take his word for it and leave. I’m 19 never had a boyfriend and I know this.

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                    • Neecy
                      Dec 25, 2014 @ 13:38:21

                      Its a viscious cycle that will not stop until (1) Enough people in society start shaming (2) no kinds of benefit programs are eligible to women who are unammried with children. That will only help it to cease.

                      I will never forget a few years ago I was in an Indian doctors office and he was asking my company for donations as he takes trips to India to help out the poor.

                      So we got into a discussion about the poor in India. Then I remember him saying that in India they have very low rates of OOW births. He said the women who are single mothers or baby mommas and women who have kids with no husband are shunned and shamed by society.

                      Its inly western societies that cater to this dysfunction. And that is why so many Black males are unhinged these days and why so many young BW are lost and don’t know the first thing about quality stable no dysfunctional relationships.

                      And Black people just keep making excuse after excuse for this.

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              • Khadija Nassif
                Dec 25, 2014 @ 08:09:24

                Rae,

                You said, “I also was on a Facebook group for black woman and a woman who lives in Europe said she’s starting to see more black women with swirl babies who are single mothers! I’m pretty sure they all have had babies out of wedlock! Sigh..”

                It’s probably safe to assume these Black Swirl Baby Mamas were all Western BW, and not African women. Unlike so many Western BW (AA women in particular), African women tend NOT to disavow all responsibility for their reproductive choices.

                So many AA women’s refusal to take any responsibility whatsoever for their reproductive choices is a topic the BW Think Tank writer discussed at length. In my view, this widespread, utterly irresponsible, and destructive Western BW behavior pattern of reckless, random breeding is a mirror image of Western BM’s “pump and dump” behavior pattern. This reckless and random breeding has caused the downfall and final destruction of the AA collective.

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                • Neecy
                  Dec 25, 2014 @ 13:23:10

                  So true Khadija. It just reeks of desperation and lack of discipline and even care about the future of your children.

                  Also, it just further hurts the average BW’s chance at finding a quality man who will marry her if he sees she’s “just another baby momma”. Not impossible, but no quality man wants to have a marriage and child with a woman who is just irresponsible about her body and choices.

                  No more than a quality woman wants a man with a litter of kids spread out amongst different women or women he has never married.

                  I cannot understand why BW cannot look at other groups of women and follow behind some of the more progressive things they do that seem to keep them ahead of the game as much as possible. I cannot understand why Black women cannot put 2 and 2 together to realize that being a BABY MOMMA only hurts herself and most importantly the offspring.

                  I almost feel BW just have babies by any and everyone no matter what, because they are so desperate to be loved by someone, they feel having a child is a forever kind of love.

                  But what happens usually is a lot of these women become resentful of their children and the children become resentful of the mothers and its not an unconditional love, but just more dysfunctional relationships.

                  This is why you hear more and more today from Black women who have horrible relationships with their mothers. This really only started in the last couple genrations.

                  I think my generation was the LAST to get that stable Black family that is so devoid in Black society today. I was very lucky now that I look at things.

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                  • Rae
                    Dec 25, 2014 @ 13:43:56

                    ‘I almost feel BW just have babies by any and everyone no matter what, because they are so desperate to be loved by someone, they feel having a child is a forever kind of love.’

                    BINGO!!!! That is EXACTLY what black girls and women are doing. Love is such a powerful thing. I continue to be aghast at the type of things I see the young black women do for men that others races of women would never even think of doing. My mom even told me black women are afraid men leave them. I’ve seen some of this in my family too. The brutal truth is black women are not shown any love in society. I think what hurts black women is that even black men don’t show them love. The baby turns 5 years old and comes wih a personality and responsibilities and black women lose it.

                    What also hurts black women is they segregate themselves sooo much and are so invested in fighting white racism. A lot of black women my age truly believe that they are in the fight together with black men. I assure you that is not the case!

                    I also believe black women don’t even bother following other races of women because they believe they don’t have a chance so what’s the point they think. < this I can not blame black women for when since the day they are born they are told this in various ways (the media, magazines, school and even black boys!!)

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                    • Neecy
                      Dec 25, 2014 @ 14:13:00

                      There are many things BW can replicate of Non Black women (the good traits they have that help them as women) and Black women can use their heads and do a lot of the progressive things NOn Black women do to help themsleves.

                      One major things is, the OBVIOUS lack of male identifying that most other women have – especially Western White women. Western WW for the most part as well as Asian women (the two groups of women whose offspring seem to fare the best in society) DO NOT cater to their men in ways Black women consistently do with BM.

                      Do you ever see Asian or WW being a mouthpiece for thier men or the problems that plague their men? NO. Do you see AW or WW yelling from the mountaintops that no other race of man can do anythign for them but their “white” or “asian ” Kings? NO. And IRONICALLY, their men are where their bread gets buttered for the most part, so they really do not have to seek out other groups of men (like Black men) if they truly cared about being with men who are powerful.

                      Yet, these women still are doing well marriage nad relationship wise despite the fact they do not cater to thier men.

                      So why can’t BW look at this and just “GET IT” that you do not need to cater to men to have good men want to protect and provide for you?

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                  • Khadija Nassif
                    Dec 25, 2014 @ 14:10:43

                    Neecy,

                    Another part of the problem is that there’s usually a dishonest discourse surrounding this oow issue. These baby mamas are usually doing a LOT of dishonest “spinning” in how they explain their *accidentally-on-purpose* oow pregnancies.

                    Over time, you’ll often hear them revise the story they give when explaining their accidentally-on-purpose oow pregnancies. The common denominator in all of these stories is that the male made it clear by actions and words that he was NOT interested in commitment (marriage) to the woman. And THIS is the context in which these women chose to get pregnant. And then chose to continue their pregnancies to term.

                    Quiet as it’s kept, I’ve observed that a large segment of these baby mamas are women who chose to involve themselves with married men/already-shacked-up-with-somebody-ELSE men, already-has-somebody-ELSE-as-his-fiancée men, etc. What many of them are leaving out of their tales of oow woe is that they knowingly got with a man who is cheating on another woman in hopes of replacing that pre-existing wife, girlfriend, etc.

                    Time out on that mess.

                    Time out on grown a$$ women who are pretending that they don’t know where babies come from. [Anybody that clueless shouldn’t be engaging in sex.]

                    Time out on irresponsible women who ASSUME that everybody else is just thrilled about being force to subsidize their bastard babies.

                    Enough already.

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                    • Neecy
                      Dec 25, 2014 @ 14:27:03

                      @ Khadija,

                      Very well put! Yes. A lot of these women are involved with men who are not committing because they have already committed to other women. A lot of BW believe having thier child will be cause for him to actually leave and committ and of course these fools don’t realize that any man cheating on his already g/f or wife with her is MOST LIKELY and 9/10 will do it to her.

                      It goes back to desperation and insecurity.

                      It will only stop unfortunatley, when society starts shaming this nonsense and pulling financial support for women who do this. But now we have a crop of WW coming up who support and live this nonsense making public declarations that being a single mother is “ok”. Just like the fat acceptance movement, silly BW will jump on anything dysfunctional especially if supported by WW.

                      But what they do not see is WW have a broader support system than BW do. They have communities and things behind them for when they make bad choices. They have a race of men who are not afraid to police their boys and men to not act a fool.

                      I see poor immigrant Mexican women who have kids and kids and ALMOST ALWAYS you can bet there is a father in the home or always walking with them holding the kids hands and just being a figure in their lives. I have housecleaners come often and all of these women are mothers and EVERY SINGLE ONE of these Mexican hispanic women have husbands – EVERY SINGLE ONE! So even though these women make babies while poor, they completely understand that no matter what their husbands will provide and help raise thier kids even on the small salary he makes.

                      Black women no longer understand the crucial importance of family stability. Family stability is more crucial than MONEY. PLenty of poor people raise healthy families. Plenty of middle class or financially well off people do not always have healthy kids, if there is no family stability.

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                    • Karen
                      Dec 25, 2014 @ 15:10:30

                      Dear Khadija,

                      I firmly agree, it is way past time for “time out on this mess”. In many parts of Western Europe, WW choose not to marry but they live with the fathers of their children and raise them together, so they are not “single mothers” where the father is absent.

                      The reality is many Western countries are struggling economically and these social welfare programs that have only existed for ca. 80 years will disappear. The old ways (which are still common in Eastern Europe) of the only welfare safety net being family will return, which is why shunning and shaming were standard practice to avoid bastard babies that represent a burden to the entire family.

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          • Rae
            Dec 21, 2014 @ 15:54:30

            THIs! The shooting here in NYC with the asian and Hispanic police officer dying is just the beginning. My mom and I have talked about what you’re saying for years. Hispanics and asians do not like us and our not our friends! As soon as they make it into power they will side with whites. I have never made it my mission to befriend asians and hispanics extensively. I truly believe they are worst than whites. Time will tell how things will be for us.

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            • Formavitae
              Dec 21, 2014 @ 16:58:43

              Rae,

              AA males are SO STUPID. They think they are SO “TOUGH”, because they TALK an aggressive game, have “big d*cks” (in THEIR minds), and black skin. An Asian man/shopkeeper will BEAT YOUR *SS/SHOOT YOU DEAD for messing with/stealing from him. I KNOW some. They will fight back, if necessary, and they stay “STRAPPED”.

              I’ve had close relationships with Asians, throughout the years. And, my closest, most compatible best friend is an Asian Muslim. But, I will say that Asians and Hispanics are FAR more “anti-black” than whites. I actually think I consider Hispanics to be more of a threat in terms of “political” oppression–NOT due to their numbers, per se, but because they have a historical, cultural, and political history/system that functions to keep WHITES in power and blacks/Africans as servants/slaves. Asians also oppress based upon DARKNESS of skin. But, they apply this oppression to THEIR OWN people, not particularly black/African people. Asians are about THEIR OWN culture. They aren’t so much concerned about involvement with others. In some ways, I consider them more “indifferent”. Whereas Hispanics strike me as wanting to use blacks as a structural “BASE” for elevation, uplift, and social development. I may be wrong. As I stated, this is my “thought”/”opinion”, and it is still in a state of formulation.

              AAs love being stupid for BM. BM love catering to their desire to “conquer” the world through sexual relations and nothing more substantive. AA women need to GET SMART and get a man who loves/values himself enough to appreciate and protect them AS WOMEN. And, honestly, from what I can see, it’s the “white/whiter” and Asian man who values himself this way.

              I’ve accepted that all groups of the world are “racist”/”ethnocentric” to some degree. THAT WILL NEVER CHANGE. It’s part of “self-valuation”. That’s something AAs LACK, so they “just don’t get it”. They think it’s “normal” to think MOST of EVERYONE ELSE and LEAST of YOURSELF. Unfortunately, AA women suffer as a result. We just have to connect ourselves to healthier, better functioning men/people groups and accept that our descendants may no longer BE “us”. That’s what BM are trying to do ANYWAY–erase us, but keep the same label.

              It’s heartbreaking…but a reality with which we must deal.

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              • Rae
                Dec 21, 2014 @ 17:05:06

                Yep!!! I’ve alway secretly feel that black people are the only jackasses that truly belie in fairness and equality. History how’s is this time and time again. And I think black women know this but black men are the main reason for black peoples pain and suffering and I feel no guilt in satin that. I also believe the world knows this. I believe pain and suffering is coming black peoples way in the years to come in this country. Speaking of Western Europe , I will be making it my priority to move there after I get my bachelors. I want to move to berlin, germany soooo bad. The woman who moved to France is stupid . Next year I will start learning german . It will be at least anothe 2 years before I go there so I have time! Lol

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                • Formavitae
                  Dec 21, 2014 @ 17:56:13

                  Rae,

                  “Speaking of Western Europe , I will be making it my priority to move there after I get my bachelors. I want to move to berlin, germany soooo bad. The woman who moved to France is stupid . Next year I will start learning german . It will be at least anothe 2 years before I go there so I have time!”

                  CONGRATULATIONS!

                  That’s and EXCELLENT USE of your foreign language requirement. Lol!

                  I’ve heard several AA women have had a positive experience with German men and that a nice number of German men are attracted to BW.

                  Kudos!

                  As it relates to notions of “equality”, I agree AAs have very “warped” and UNREASONABLE expectations about this. That being said, I cannot negate the IMPORTANCE of the quest for “equality” in our people’s history and successes. One thing that I think is nice/important about the United States and it’s history is found in “OUR” (WAS going to use the word “ITS”, but changed my mind) Declaration of Independence:

                  “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,…”

                  Now, WE KNOW the writers didn’t literally believe/practice that “ALL MEN” were created equal. Nevertheless, that CONCEPT has played an important role in giving AAs a certain “footing” and “legitimacy” in their quest for justice in this society.

                  “… that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness…”

                  Our ancestors used these ideas to pursue OUR rights to freedom, education, mobility, etc.

                  “–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, ”

                  Government and laws are IMPORTANT. THAT’S why our ancestors fought for us to not only have certain laws ESTABLISHED, providing us rights, but to have certain laws and legal/constitutional concepts ENFORCED that were already on the books.

                  AAs have not historically been “anti-government”/”anti-law”, but they can pursue these strategies and attitudes today, if they WANT–TO THEIR OWN PERIL. AAs can no longer defend “lawlessness” yet expect the protection and honor of “the law”. And, other members of society are ceasing to feel a need to pressure “the law” to abide by its OWN RULES, because they don’t want “random bullets” whizzing past them or over THEIR children’s heads.

                  The thing about “equality” is that it’s rarely a “REALITY” but is a nice “IDEAL”. It gives society something to strive for and encourages it to pursue a form of its “highest self”. Nevertheless, AAs need to stop thinking/behaving as if the only way they can improve or achieve is to have ABSOLUTE EQUALITY IN ALL THINGS. THIS country, the United States, has provided a MYRIAD of avenues to success and personal elevation. They aren’t all (or even, mostly) EASY, but they can be pursued. THAT’S why I’m not “down” for people “knocking” this country. THAT’S why other people are “banging down our door” for entry and citizenship. THAT’S why other people are “sneaking in” or “overstaying” their welcome and “guest passes”. THAT’S why I’m speaking out against AA FOOLS who are promoting ANTIPATHY towards the U.S. (law and law enforcement) in the minds of other AAs.

                  These *WM* (whom AA men “hate” and have yet to “outdo”) put into THEIR laws and the foundation of THEIR government ideas and values that later provided great opportunities to the MASSES they were never even considering during the countries inception–opportunities *THEY* later extended–EVEN TO THEIR OWN SLAVES!)

                  So, YES, I am a PROUD U.S. citizen. YES, I love this country. YES, I support our government and its laws (though I do not support THE ABUSERS of the law). Yes, I want the U.S. to do what is necessary to strengthen, sustain, and protect itself. SOME country (or set of countries) is going to be the “dominant” world power, and I’D *PREFER* IT BE US. We’ve done/provded lots of good (though not always) ALL OVER THE GLOBE with the ideals of our “racist” founding fathers and “capitalistic” ways.

                  There’s ALWAYS room for improvement. But, I’m not “wrecking” my home over a need for “repairs”.

                  Another comment I wanted to make is that you can design/control LAWS, but you can’t do so for PEOPLE. So, implementation and enforcement of good laws and governance are NECESSARY for a healthy and well-functioning society. That’s why AAs should resort to lawlessness to deal with their frustrations over the abuses of/in the system. Furthermore, when they cause uninvolved others to “lose” they (USUALLY) forfeit any sympathy or support they may be able to gain. People ARE TIRED of paying bills they didn’t make.

                  Here’s a link to the Declaration of Independence, Constitution, Bill of Rights, and other documents/information related to the founding of this country:

                  http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration.html

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                  • Formavitae
                    Dec 21, 2014 @ 18:07:01

                    CORRECTION:

                    “That’s why AAs should NOT resort to lawlessness…”

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                  • Rae
                    Dec 21, 2014 @ 18:38:50

                    This is something I have struggled with since I’ve entered college and learned about racism in depth and on social media. At the back of my head the whole time I’m thinking no one plays by fairness in the game of life but black people ESPECIALLY BLACK WOMEN. That’s not how life works nor human nature. My generation of black people seem to be the worst when it come to the reality of life. The constant whining and being upset over exclusion is annoying. I have always felt there has to be a reason other than our skin and hair texture as to why everyone has contempt for us. Evia stated it well in another comment. I remember feeling a year ago thinking deeply about being black in America. It feels like black people have made little to no progress. A couple of months later a study confirmed that. Mainly, black men have made VERY LITTLE progress. It sucks for us black women because like Neecy said it is the man that garners the best interests of the women and children. Black men’s failures affect us ALL THE TIME. I’ve come to the conclusion that overall most black men are failures. I’m 19 and I know this. Of course I have to keep this to myself because I will catch hell for saying this out loud. I truly believe a disproportionate of black women feel the same way secretly. I also think many of the black women that know this just accept their unfortunate fate and have a baby out of wedlock . There are no benefits even when we black women get an education and get married to black men. Studies have shown this and I have seen this play out in real life. We black women are the ones that have to pay the price through pain and suffering. Something I just thing God why us? Ya know? Other races of women in my college I’ve met are already engaged (jewish, indian, white, hispanic) I have yet to meet a black one. The nonblack men I see are only interested in their women. Every time I see a black guy he is not with a black woman. In NYC its become the new thing whenever you see a black man its become so expected for him not to be with a black woman.Most of the black girls like myself are single. Black men have no desire to build and infrastructure except when they’re with nonblack women.

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                    • Formavitae
                      Dec 21, 2014 @ 18:57:22

                      Rae,

                      IT IS a struggle. I’m just glad you’re getting the picture at 19. It’s nice that you can find these forums for discussion online, because AAs will frequently penalize you for expressing such views. I’ve learned to keep my thoughts to myself, unless I know have support or am safe expressing my views.

                      I’m sure BM are with nonBW, and it’s only going to INCREASE. Only thing you can do is optimize your value as a woman and focus on surrounding yourself with optimum men. You seem to have smart strategies in mind, when it comes to integrating yourself into the “global village”.

                      I, TOO, have questioned why God would allow BW to have this plight. I just decided that God “is no respecter of persons”, and that these injustices to BW are not HIS doing. This is also another point at which I decided to look at other factors (political, social) outside of religion to analyze the position of BW. Religious people will have a “scripture” or spiritual “slogan” to try to explain away your observations. But, it’s important to think FOR YOURSELF. You see the nonsense going on. MAKE WISE CHOICES. I learned to turn to my faith for internal strength to do the things I need to do, but I use a variety of sources to develop my personal “TO DO” list.

                      The BW’s road isn’t easy, so navigating well is IMPERATIVE.

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                    • Formavitae
                      Dec 21, 2014 @ 19:19:04

                      Rae,

                      Another thing. Be careful where you “fix your gaze”.

                      I once attended a driving course, years ago, and the instructor told us that if we ever lost control of our car NEVER look/stare at a tree because that’s EXACTLY WHERE YOU’LL DRIVE.

                      I’ve always kept his advice in mind. And, I’ve benefited from it also.

                      Once, I was driving on the highway (with my music TOO LOUD–lol), and the part I was driving on turned into a 2 lane curve. Well, anyway, I couldn’t see that part yet. But, the cars ahead of me that were already on the curve had stopped, because an ambulance or other public service vehicle had passed with sirens on. I believe there were 3 cars (2 cars in one lane and 1 in the other) on that portion of the highway. Well, as I was coming around the bend, I noticed the cars were stopped, but I didn’t have enough time to brake and stop. So, my mind instantaneously remembered to look for an exit (not AT the cars), and I drove *between* the two lanes of cars, right along the dotted line in the middle and SIMULTANEOUSLY around the curve. Fortunately, I got through without incident. But, the other cars took time before restarting because a potentially bad accident had been narrowly averted.

                      I learned a few lessons that day. One, don’t be so caught up in your music (media, conversation, etc) that you aren’t acutely in tune with the conditions around you. Two, remind yourself to be aware of the unknown conditions you will be entering ahead, in case you need to make sudden adjustments. Three, that was REALLY GOOD ADVICE my instructor gave me. By having that pop into my subconscious mind, I was able to keep a cool head, find, and navigate a successful “exit” strategy. Otherwise, I may have been overwhelmed by the “surprise” of it all and (not) made moves resulting in an unfortunate situation.

                      Jesus advised His disciples “Above all else, guard your hearts.” He also told them, “Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.” I reference the teachings of Jesus, because I am Christian. But, I believe that is SOUND WISDOM for ANYONE. We have to be very careful of what we allow to occupy the spaces in our minds, hearts, and spirits, PARTICULARLY as members of a vulnerable, unprotected group, because that often influences our choices and behaviors.

                      I wish you SUCCESS and hope you achieve your goals.

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                • Lynn
                  Dec 22, 2014 @ 12:42:29

                  @ Rae,

                  You said: Yep!!! I’ve alway secretly feel that black people are the only jackasses….

                  While in theory I agree with your sentiments about the Black Collective, I cannot agree with the ‘jackass’ derogatory term you use for all Black people. I’m assuming you’re a BW, so keep in mind you’re including yourself in this comment.

                  Yes the majority of AA’s are ABC acting and constantly do things to actively stay in their horrible life situations. Yes, the ABC’s act in ways that are incredibly damaging to the entire collective. I agree with just about everything you and other commenters are saying about present day BC.

                  Please keep in mind it was not always this way. AA’s for the majority of our history in the country did not act as ‘jackasses’. We have a proud lineage and tradition of making a way and even thriving in past conditions most of us could only imagine. I am proud of my lineage (pre-Hip-Hop) and who I’m descended from. I never forget that and will never wholsale trash all AA’s. Present day BM, on the other hand…..

                  Let’s please all remain thankful for our ancestors. AA’s have survived conditions that have literally caused many ethnic groups to become EXTINCT. There are whole Native American tribes that have been wiped out in this country. Let’s never forget we are people of strength and courage. Present day ABC AA’s are the ones who choose to piss on their ancestors and squander every gain they died for in this country.

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                  • Formavitae
                    Dec 22, 2014 @ 12:47:10

                    Lynn,

                    ” AA’s have survived conditions that have literally caused many ethnic groups to become EXTINCT.”

                    PREACH.

                    ” Let’s never forget we are people of strength and courage. Present day ABC AA’s are the ones who choose to piss on their ancestors and squander every gain they died for in this country.”

                    CO-SIGNING ALL DAY.

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              • Mochachoc
                Dec 23, 2014 @ 04:08:19

                I should do google search but feeling lazy. Where are Hispanic people from? What racial group do they belong to? How and when did they get to the US? Invited, welcolmed? When you mention Asians do you mean people from India and Pakistan or Japan, China Korea etc?

                Thanks

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                • Formavitae
                  Dec 23, 2014 @ 05:05:34

                  Mochchoc,

                  “Where are Hispanic people from?”

                  When I speak of “Hispanic” people, I’m personally referring to people from Central and Southern America, as well as some from the Caribbean. Now, I know that amongst themselves, they have disagreements about WHO is truly “Hispanic” and who is not.

                  What racial group do they belong to?

                  Once again, Hispanics have disagree about who classifies as “Hispanic”. However, they are mixture of European, Indigenous American, African, and Asian peoples. The composition of the people group(s) depends upon which country you are referring to.

                  How and when did they get to the US? Invited, welcolmed?

                  Disagreements aside about whether certain territories of the U.S. belong to the U.S. or Mexico, Mexicans have a history of coming to this country to work as laborers, particularly in agriculture. They have been “invited” to do so. However, you also have those who are “uninvited” coming into the country ILLEGALLY.

                  When you mention Asians do you mean people from India and Pakistan or Japan, China Korea etc?

                  I know that the term “Asia” means different things, depending upon which part of the world you are from. When I speak of Asians, I am referring to Eastern, Southern, and Southeastern Asians–not just East or South Asia. There are a lot of differences between cultures, certainly. But, Asian peoples (generally) have a commonality in preferring their own group and discriminating against dark-skinned people.

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                • Formavitae
                  Dec 23, 2014 @ 05:15:07

                  Mocachoc,

                  This is copied from below, because I “replied” in the wrong place.

                  And, OF COURSE, the groups of people in this country labeled “Hispanic” include more than Mexicans and the countries representing “Asians” are extensive as well.

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                  • Mochachoc
                    Dec 23, 2014 @ 06:26:35

                    Thank you Formavitae.

                    I think I’m more confused. Hispanic seems like a catch all category from your description. A real hodgepodge of race, ethnicity and country. Is there some unifying thread? It’s really interesting.

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                    • Formavitae
                      Dec 23, 2014 @ 06:45:42

                      Mochachoc,

                      “Thank you Formavitae.”

                      You’re welcome. There are other people with a more in-depth understanding of these nuances who could explain it better.

                      “I think I’m more confused. Hispanic seems like a catch all category from your description. A real hodgepodge of race, ethnicity and country. Is there some unifying thread? It’s really interesting.”

                      Yes. Here in the United States the terms “Hispanic” and/or “Latino” ARE “catch-all” categories. (Just like “Black” has been used to “catch” black and partly black mixed groups) But, as I mentioned, Hispanics have their own ways of classifying who is “Hispanic”, “Chicano”, etc. I know they also make a distinction between those from “Spanish” versus “Portuguese” origin. These are nuances I do not understand the dynamics of, as they were not the focus in classes I took (YEARS ago). I’ve tried talking to Hispanics about this in the past, but they avoided the topic, brushed it off, and didn’t give me an answer.

                      Immigration history in the U.S. is a complex and complicated topic. I just want AA women to remember to put THEIR interests FIRST.

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                    • Formavitae
                      Dec 23, 2014 @ 06:58:20

                      Mochachoc

                      “I think I’m more confused.”

                      IT IS confusing–particularly for those of us not from the culture or society.

                      I once asked a Pakistani friend what the difference is between “West Asian” and “Middle Eastern” and kind of what the geographical distinction was. He told me he didn’t understand it either. That’s why I didn’t mention “West Asia” in my list (especially since I’ve never taken any coursework that addressed “West” Asia).

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                • Khadija Nassif
                  Dec 23, 2014 @ 07:14:56

                  Mochachoc,

                  I normally don’t reward laziness (Google is one’s friend), but since you’re not American and from the UK, there are some nuances to all of this that a quick Google search won’t explain. In my view of this (and reasonable minds can differ, my views are based on my experiences, other folks have had different experiences):

                  The majority (or plurality) of “Hispanics” in the U.S. overall are of Mexican ancestry. Mexicans are found in heavy concentrations all over the U.S. Mexicans have overrun the entire country in terms of their distribution patterns. Latinos from other nationalities tend to cluster in limited geographic areas of the U.S.

                  For example, Mexicans and Mexican-Americans (and smaller Central/South American nationalities) are all over the American Southwest and California with relatively few Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, Cubans, etc. in these areas. East coast cities like New York have Latino populations that are numerically dominated by Puerto Ricans and Dominicans (as opposed to majority Mexican). Florida’s Latino population is numerically dominated by Cubans (as opposed to Mexicans).

                  I would estimate that Chicago’s Latino population is a plurality of Mexicans but also with a large Puerto Rican population. With a sprinkling of immigrants from other Latino nationalities. [There are enough Puerto Ricans here to have a public high school named after a Puerto Rican baseball player, Roberto Clemente. In addition to the public high school named after a Mexican politician, Benito Juarez. The public schools in Chicago’s segregated neighborhoods are often named after each ethnic population’s heroes. Although, there are AA and White kids who attend Clemente high school. I’m not sure if there are any AA kids who attend Benito Juarez.]

                  “Hispanics” in the U.S. tend to refer to themselves as “Latinos.” I’m not quite sure where that “Hispanic” term came from. [And don’t care enough to research the origin of that.]

                  There’s often NO love lost between the various Latino nationalities. Similar to how there’s often no love lost between non-AA Blacks and AAs. That undercurrent of what’s often enmity is usually muted in the presence of non-Latinos. But the magnet high school I went to [named after AA civil rights leader Whitney Young] had Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, and some Cubans.

                  Kids from each of those groups were not bashful about expressing their disdain for Latinos in other ethnic groups. In English for others to overhear. The Mexicans would enrage the Puerto Ricans and Cubans by calling them the n-word. [They said this knowing that this would especially enrage the “Whiter” Puerto Ricans and Cubans.] The Puerto Ricans and Cubans would call the Mexicans “wetbacks.”

                  I’ve recently heard similar sentiments expressed by more than a few of the Latino official court interpreters over the years. Not the racial slurs, but similar feelings of dislike, disrespect and outright contempt for other Latino ethnic groups.

                  All of this is superimposed on top of the roiling intra-group colorism and/or racism within each Latino ethnic group.

                  When most Americans think and speak of “Asians,” they think of “oriental” Asians (meaning folks with Epicanthal eye folds), not South Asians. More educated Americans are aware of the “South Asian” terminology. But in common, everyday conversation such persons are referred to as “East Indians” and “Pakistanis.” [“East” Indians to distinguish from American Indians, i.e., Native American indigenous peoples.]

                  By contrast, my understanding is that in British usage, “Asian” refers to the people Americans tend to refer to as East Indians and Pakistanis.

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                  • Silver Roxen
                    Dec 23, 2014 @ 07:33:22

                    The term Hispanic is actually a result of the Spanish Conquest. When Hernan Cortes and his Spanish folowers came to Mexico to take over the Aztec Empire. Many of them would take the Indigenous woman as their wives. Hernan Cortes had a child with his translator La Malinche a son names Martin Cortes, who is said to be the first Hispanic person. This is the simplified version that I learned in a Spanish Culture class.

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            • Silver Roxen
              Dec 22, 2014 @ 09:22:29

              I don’t know if this is related but I attend an early college where the majority is Hispanic. They often exclude everyone else (black and white). They are the presidents in the SGA, not because they are good at what they do, but because they are voted (placed) their by the majority. When they have little get togethers they don’t tell anybody, but when we have one they want in. Also something I noticed is that most of the Hispanic guys date white girls. Now that I think about it one of my close friends who is white was the one who pointed this out to me, and she said that is why she is selective about who she befriends and there are only a few Hispanic people that I actually interact with because the others tend to keep their distance.

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              • Formavitae
                Dec 22, 2014 @ 12:42:45

                Silver Roxen,

                “They are the presidents in the SGA, not because they are good at what they do, but because they are voted (placed) their by the majority.”

                This is one major reason why I still support the concept and utilization of the electoral college rather than just who wins the greatest percentage of the “popular” vote. Hispanics have their own agenda, and I’m not yet ready to leave my fate in their hands. Amongst those Hispanics who are most popular/get the most clout/support, I wonder how many are “white” versus “browner”/”black”.

                ANYWAY…that’s a good example of how Hispanics are not interested in being “comrades”/”allies” with AAs. They just want to utilize AA infrastructure and resources to usurp and take over. But, AA males SUPPORT THIS. My focus in American politics is shifting from AA “grievances” to preserving this country. AAs need to get their act(s) together, and I want to sustain my “home”.

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  38. Evia
    Dec 20, 2014 @ 12:14:03

    Y’all pls excuse most of the emboldening above. I had meant to only embolden a small section!

    @Homestead Glamour Girl re:

    Well you know I would buy that book.

    Thank You! We’re yet talking about it.

    Also,I publicly commit here and now to purchase a pair of your mittens by December 31st

    I love your supportive spirit! But, I’m working on a couple of other styles, so pls wait until I can finish and post at least one other style. LOL!

    Btw, I received my earrings that I ordered from Mellody’s business. Beautiful! They look just like they do in the pics! I’ll wear them to the holiday dinner.

    Thanks for the BWE Challenge! It makes me feel good to support other like-minded bw. I know that may be hard for some AAbw–to support each other. Hmmmm, I can’t imagine how it feels to NOT want to support other similar bw, the types who reciprocate.

    But as an old school AAbw, I was shaped to be supportive of other bw, and I also married into a culture where support was natural. None of this means that either of these traditions was/is perfect though.

    Someone had once pointed out that from the time AA black children are toddlers, their parents take them into white and Asian owned stores to buy this and that, so by the time they’re grown, many of them think it’s unnatural to buy from other blacks.

    Years ago, I remember how difficult it was to try to explain to Darren why so many AAs (to use Khadija’s laser beam accurate description–lol) boycott black businesses.” I talked and talked, but he couldn’t grasp it. And as I listened to myself, I sounded more and more crazy. LOL! I’d love to see a skit about this on SNL! LOL!!! I mean it’s almost impossible to actually capture some of this in words– to really break it down to someone who is used to automatically supporting the businesses of those in his ethnic group. He had always assumed that we shop with each other the same way he shops with whites, and particularly those in his ethnic group. This is why I know that whites will never be able to resolve most of the worst issues that plague AAs. They will only be able to understand the issues on the most surface level, if at all.

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  39. APA
    Dec 20, 2014 @ 17:36:01

    Evia,

    Your observations about the dynamics in African communities are spot on. My parents have done similar things for my relatives living here. In fact, my parents sponsored most of the lottery/green card applications for my relatives currently living in the U.S. Once my relatives arrived, my parents housed them until they were able to get on their feet. When those relatives fell on hard times, my parents gave them money, housed them, and provided other forms of assistance without expecting anything in return. However, if my parents ever needed help, my relatives would step up just like my parents stepped up for them in their time of need.

    LOL about the “loan” you gave your husband’s relative. I’m sure that now you realize that among family members for the most part there is no such thing as a “loan” in African culture. It is also frowned upon to turn away family members in need when you are able to help. What actually constitutes a need is another question all together. For a while, my parents were at odds because my mother regularly sent thousands to her brothers in Nigeria. However, my mother’s brothers weren’t struggling, and my mother’s money was being used to pay for luxuries that they felt entitled to. Eventually, my father convinced my mother to stop sending money, so that money could be funneled back into our household. The point here is that the obligation to help one’s family is very strong in African culture as well as other non-Western cultures. For any of the ladies thinking about marrying non-Western men, you need to learn about your husband’s attitudes towards financially assisting his family. If you don’t, you may end up in a situation where your spouse functions as an ATM for his family members, and you guys may be unable reap the benefits of your hard work in your own household.

    Overall, the way Africans support their family members is a good thing. Lack of support is the main reason people experience severe poverty and homelessness.Your family may not be perfect, but try your best to at least find one or two sane ones who you can form deep relationships, so you have someone to call on in your time of need. If your family is a lost cause, then it is imperative that you form your own intentional community. In fact, everyone should form as many beneficial networks as possible.

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  40. Evia
    Dec 21, 2014 @ 06:10:13

    @Formavitae, re:

    My commentary about ” ‘FAKE’ love for Africa” was not in reference to you or any other people who genuinely love, care, and appreciate the various cultures and continent of Africa.

    Thanks for clarifying! This is crucial because some black folks (some readers included) are constantly looking for a way to justify their colorstruck and hair-ism illnesses. I don’t want them saying that “Evia doesn’t like dark skin and coiled hair either.”

    HOWEVER, IMO (and here’s a critical nuance): There is a difference between not wanting your children to have dark skin and coiled hair because you think it’s ugly VERSUS not wanting your children to have dark skin and coiled hair because it makes your children a target for foul treatment. The fact is that many darker AA children receive foul or less-than treatment from other AAs–both children and adults. This is just standard operating procedure among numerous AAs. This is another elephant in the room that the bulk of AAs will never address.

    What I was really addressing is this LONGSTANDING SPIEL AAs have been promoting/running FOR YEARS about “Africa”, “pan-Africanism”, “black pride”, etc. etc., all the while promoting white/mixed standards for beauty/acceptance/worthiness for their women and children, all the while neglecting authentically BW (including beauties like Dorothy Dandridge, who wasn’t very Negroid herself) in favor of non-black sex and blood. I’m addressing those “FAKE” lovers of Africa who feel all they need are dashikis, Ankhs, African carvings/canes, and Kent e cloth to love Africa, all the while only wanting to breed with women who have lighter skin and straighter hair. I’m talking about AAs ignoring the “elephant in the room” that (GENERALLY) they want people who pass the paper bag test and deny the visibility of the black/African ancestors from which they come.

    TRUE! As more and more young AA women come of age, they need to have this shoved in their faces CONSTANTLY so they won’t fall for the okey-dokes and be used as sista soldiers and mules to defend and feed negro men and their light/white mates. Here again though is a spot that can cause confusion. SOME browner/darker bw hate for bm to be with lighter/whiter women because those bw WANT or prefer a bm themselves. LOL I, Evia, am NOT one of those women. I am not with Darren because I couldn’t get a CQLL bm. Unlike some AAbw, I’ve never seen anything special about bm, and since I’ve dated and married out all of my life, I KNOW that men in other groups have much more going for them than MOST typical bm. So, I view Hotep type black males as comical but otherwise completely useless to bw. I can’t see them as a loss. As long as they’re not getting my or other bw’s resources, I don’t care anything about what happens to them because they are of no value to me and mine. I used to encounter them all of the time when I was in my 20s in NYC. I’ve heard every spiel. They’ve been out there on those corners for as long as white men have allowed bm to stand on corners. So, this didn’t just start. And the fact is that many of those black males know how to talk a woman’s underwear off since they have nothing to do but practice on woman after woman after woman. So they will be out there for hundreds of years doing that.

    And considering that since some young bw are SO hungry for ANY male’s attention (and those males KNOW that), the males get rewarded by SOME of those women.

    But because I’m not a binary thinker, I recognize that among those bm with lighter/whiter women, some are with those women for other valid reasons. Sometimes, bw would not pay any attention to those men. Let’s be honest. Sometimes I observe the mannerisms, clothes, body build, etc. of some of those bm with nonblack women and this becomes apparent. If bw are serious about moving to the next level, they have to own that too. A dirty little secret about many AAbw of various ages is that they don’t like nicer, mannerly, studious, or normal acting bm.

    My comment wasn’t REALLY about “DARK” skin or “NAPPY” hair. It’s about THE LIES AAs perpetuate to disguise the rejection that they have for things AUTHENTICALLY black and African. Sure, they accept Arab and Indian black hybrids. But, what about the PURE blacks of Africa who do not possess the thinner noses, lighter skin, and straighter hair? THAT’S what I was referring to.

    THANK YOU! I wish we could bring this aspect out and put it on Front St. My ex-husband used to talk about how so many AAs embrace Egypt and Egyptology but reject West African cultures and civilizations which were once thriving and glorious. I know it was Tarzan movies that caused many AA blacks to feel ashamed of their African roots, but thanks to white/European historians, the grandeur of West African civilizations has been captured, even if western blacks and other blacks cling to Egypt. Some whites do foul things, but others do good things and I wish more bw AND OTHERS could acknowledge that and view more people as individuals

    Most of my roots are in West Africa, I believe. So, I will always place West Africa on a pedestal. I have received the National Geographic kit that traces the human genome to find out exactly the country or region I’m from because I want to know and I want my children to know. I will also order the Ancestry.com kit to pinpoint my bloodline in this country as precisely as possible.

    I have a long range view of life. Yes, West African societies have deteriorated, but over time, all cultures and societies deteriorate for one reason or another. Was it Marx who said that “Everything has within it the seeds of its own destruction.” So western societies will also self-destruct or be hit by a stronger force (Homo Sapiens destroyed Neanderthals), but certain mindsets prevail. Instead of clinging to a country, I would prefer for my granddaughter (and other bw ) to develop a certain mentality and pass that on to their daughters on down through generations and IMO, the core element of that mindset has to be: “No matter what happens, and no matter what, I am going to come out on top.” This is my mindset and I’m sticking to it. LOL

    I know this type of thinking is WAY over the heads of MOST bw (lol) but IF bw had that mindset, they would travel, explore various aspects of life and other cultures and never be interested in a man because of his complexion/race/ethnicity or bottom-feeding surface traits, like how “foine” he is. PLEASE!

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    • Formavitae
      Dec 21, 2014 @ 17:07:05

      Evia,

      “Let’s be honest. Sometimes I observe the mannerisms, clothes, body build, etc. of some of those bm with nonblack women and this becomes apparent. ”

      Yes. This is true and a valid observation. NOT ALL IR (including those involving BM) exist for “self-hating” or other “ignoble” reasons.

      THAT ACKNOWLEDGED, we know BM seem to find ways to accept non-BW who don’t possess/develop these more desirable qualities and traits. And, even if BW WERE to acquire them, they would still more than likely be skipped over for these other women. So, BW SHOULD enhance their feminine qualities and beauty, but FOR THEMSELVES and not BM who look for any excuse to “disqualify” them ANYWAY.

      Enhancing themselves would increase BW’s stock with other quality men, and THAT should be an excellent motivator IN ITSELF.

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  41. Evia
    Dec 21, 2014 @ 08:34:18

    @APA re:

    Your observations about the dynamics in African communities are spot on. My parents have done similar things for my relatives living here. In fact, my parents sponsored most of the lottery/green card applications for my relatives currently living in the U.S. Once my relatives arrived, my parents housed them until they were able to get on their feet. When those relatives fell on hard times, my parents gave them money, housed them, and provided other forms of assistance without expecting anything in return. However, if my parents ever needed help, my relatives would step up just like my parents stepped up for them in their time of need.

    Had to address this! And I’m only talking about my experiences. The Africans I’ve known definitely reciprocated, so I have NO complaints! LOL! They reciprocated in ways and to an extent that was often overwhelming! To this day, I know I can count on my ex-husband to the max but I suspect this is because I birthed him 2 sons–his pride and joy. LOL! But because of him and my sons, ALL of his friends and family members still treat me with honor and respect.

    My AA friends who have observed the level of reciprocation just find it unbelievable because many AAs won’t do for their parents or even their own children or siblings what a typically-bred Nigerian will do for a distant cousin! It would be a terrible tragedy if Nigerians “throw out the baby with the bath water” and discontinue their “BEST cultural practices” due to their present-day disgust with the mess in Nigeria. Yet I know some Nigerians who refuse to teach their children their own language or teach their children other cultural practices. I’ve warned them that this is the main way that people lose their culture, but they dismiss that since they’re so disgusted with Nigeria.

    *Sigh* This too is deja vu for me. This is EXACTLY what AAs did when they turned their backs on old school AA culture back in the 60s & 70s. They thought that with integration, they didn’t need any of that old-timey stuff any more. They wanted to leave the negative memories behind, and that was understandable, BUT they also threw away the positives. And just look at AAs now–NO culture, no roadmap, so their descendants are now wandering in the wilderness like clueless, endangered animals, searching for their identity, looking for answers on the internet, and begging others to accept them–since they have nothing of their own anymore. SMH Blacks continue to REPEAT the same mistakes!

    I don’t like SOME aspects of Nigerian culture, but I have great respect for many other aspects of Nigerian culture, another of them being how they demonstrate with many of their actions that “Your children are your reward for living.” The Nigerians I’ve been around are ALL so joyous about their children! As they should be. I contrast this with the way more than a few AA parents (and various other American parents) actually dislike their own children.

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    • Mochachoc
      Dec 23, 2014 @ 06:11:25

      I’m beginning to think there are many black people who don’t like their children at all. Their actions as parents suggest to me they despise them or seen them as a burden. Why willingly bring children into the world if you know your’e setting them up to run the race with their legs tied together? There were many good things about my own mother but she let it be known that we ought to be grateful because she could have left us in a black plastic bin bag. We’ve had this conversation before but it is one reason I do not support hitting children. I simply do not believe that many black parents do this out of love and a desire to guide their children.

      Recently, I’ve been thinking about the practice of sending children back to Jamaica because “the schools are so much better” than in England. I just wonder if it was motivated by a wish for someone else to care for their offspring. These children return as teenagers and unsurprisingly feel resentment toward their parents. I know one couple who gave their son to his grandmother (I really cannot fathom why they chose to abandon their responsibilities) to be raised in Jamaica. She did a fine job. He is a charming, kind and respectable adult. Nevertheless: he is angry with his father (he feels very loyal to his mother) and his father is completely clueless about this.

      Someone alluded to the fact that many black parents can’t wait for their children to reach age 18. Once their children are 18 they no longer feel obligated to help them financially. I know one mother who is counting the days her son will be 18. She has told him point black he will not get a penny from her. Believe me, this young man is autistic and is ill prepared for the adult world. He will learn to survive on hard-dough bread and water. And I’m not joking. Most white women I know were financially supported through university and given a deposit to help buy a home; let alone abandoned at 18 to fend for themselves on the streets of London. And the streets are getting rougher. We’re not quite there yet but Dickens springs to mind. In London the rich and poor do live side by side and even shop in the same places.

      I am witnessing more and more black people who look like the living dead. Truly. They come out at night and it aint pretty. When I was growing up there was absolutely no way you would see a black person begging or looking unkempt. Unthinkable. Not so now. It’s tragic. It’s hard to distinguish young black Caribbean’s and Africans nowadays but I suspect many of the night time zombies are the children of British-Caribbean’s. Sadly, the children of Africans are heading
      in the same direction.

      Again, when I was growing up and as a young woman I never ever heard of any black person committing suicide. In the last week I heard of two young black men killing themselves. Tragic I tell you. Supportive networks should start in the home. And if we’re honest many young black people do not have parents who actually like them let alone love them. Yet we want everyone else to love us. Perhaps this is why we look for external validation. It’s missing in the home. I think it was Evia who said we’re very unforgiving toward Black women who make a mistake. It’s true. One little mistake and others will consign you to the rubbish heap. You can see this played out between mothers and their little children. I have observed countless times black mothers smacking and or verbally chastising their children in public in a very public way. It almost looks like a performance – a declaration to everyone around “see I’m in control here”. I like to watch nature programmes. Watch how elephants discipline their young. You won’t see a hooting of the trunk (is it the trunk that hoots? Idk LOL) or a slap on the backside. On the contrary. What you see is a gentle, persistent nudge in the right direction. If lower order animals know how to teach, guide and correct their young in a respectful and loving manner what in the world are we doing?

      Anywaaaaaay I’ve gone round the mulberry bush just to say the Nigerian custom of supporting kin is wonderful but is missing among many African-Americans and Black British-Caribbean’s because we don’t actually like our children let alone our extended family members.

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      • Khadija Nassif
        Dec 23, 2014 @ 09:58:52

        Not to start up the spanking/no-spanking debate, but while we’re waxing romantic about how African families operate, let’s not forget that they spank their children.

        Corporal punishment is part of the African parenting and family closeness cultural “package” that folks have been (rightly in this context) praising.

        [And given that I’m firmly in the “spare the rod, ruin the child” faction, I suspect that African parents’ authority to spank is a not-insignificant part of why they typically have better parenting outcomes than those AAs and others who have gotten off into modern, experimental parenting styles.]

        Anyhoo, my point is that successful traditional practices embody an entire “package” of practices AND circumstances. Circumstances such as a lot of other people physically present who care about one’s child AND who are also saying the same type of things that the parents are telling their children (as Evia mentioned in her comments).

        When I was a small child and a teenager, I heard the same sorts of messages everywhere I turned because my adult relatives were on the same page as my parents (in terms of basic parenting views and styles). Also because my all-Black, middle-class neighborhood was filled with adult neighbors who were ALSO parenting their children with the SAME old-school AA values. If I or the other neighborhood children did something wrong or inappropriate while playing outside, often the neighbors would scold us before we got back home to hear the exact same scolding from our parents.

        In more than a few instances, the neighbors would call our parents to make sure our parents knew whatever not-good thing we had done. This sort of thing only works when all the parents are on the same page in terms of values. All of that fell apart with the rise of new-school “Leave my [misbehaving] baby alone—Don’t you say nothing to my [bad-butt] child!” parenting styles.

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      • Khadija Nassif
        Dec 23, 2014 @ 11:47:10

        Mochachoc,

        You said, “I think it was Evia who said we’re very unforgiving toward Black women who make a mistake. It’s true. One little mistake and others will consign you to the rubbish heap.”

        I’m somewhat confused by this statement. I’m wondering what you mean by this.

        I guess I’m confused because I don’t see that “unforgiving” attitude you’re referencing in your comment.

        By contrast, I see modern Western societies that have wasted LOTS of money shielding BW from having to bear the unmitigated brunt of their mistakes in terms of oow childbearing. Via welfare, modern Western countries are forcing other taxpayers to subsidize BW’s bastard babies. How is that “unforgiving”? Especially considering that these benefits were historically intended for widows.

        I see modern Western societies that cater to the delicate sensibilities of bastards and those who create bastard babies by coming up with a whole new terminology for the phenomenon.

        I see modern Western societies that cater to the delicate sensibilities of bastards and those who create bastards by pretending that the public safety problems that are endemic to the Bastard Baby Lifestyle (violence, poverty, chaos, academic failure, incarceration) somehow have no connection to the Bastard Baby Lifestyle.

        As Evia noted, real life is unforgiving of oow. Always has been, always will be.

        It seems to me that modern baby mamas in the West have gotten so spoiled in not being forced to bear the brunt of their own mistakes that they confuse a lack of praise, and telling the plain truth about the Bastard Baby Lifestyle as somehow equalling condemnation and an “unforgiving” attitude. Modern baby mamas in the West have no idea what real condemnation and real unforgiveness look like.

        To be consigned to the trash heap to support themselves and their bastards—by themselves, without taxpayer monies—is what USED TO happen to women with bastard babies prior to welfare in the modern West. To be consigned to the trash heap is what STILL happens to such women in traditional non-Western societies.

        Modern baby mamas have no idea how good they have it; or how coddled they are. But they may start finding out soon as the economy shrinks. Everybody else has grown tired of them, and tired of subsidizing them. And tired of the massive problems their “mistakes” cause for everybody else in these societies.

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  42. Formavitae
    Dec 21, 2014 @ 15:51:29

    Evia,

    “Thanks for clarifying!”

    CERTAINLY.

    “This is crucial because some black folks (some readers included) are constantly looking for a way to justify their colorstruck and hair-ism illnesses. I don’t want them saying that ‘Evia doesn’t like dark skin and coiled hair either.’”

    That’s usually a case of BM (BM protectors) PROJECTING their own thoughts/motivations onto BW who have decided to move on to other men who make better partners.

    “HOWEVER, IMO (and here’s a critical nuance): There is a difference between not wanting your children to have dark skin and coiled hair because you think it’s ugly VERSUS not wanting your children to have dark skin and coiled hair because it makes your children a target for foul treatment.”

    I, personally, think the reason AAs sought those lighter qualities was to avoid the negative treatment. However, over time, they became disconnected from the original motivations and just assumed those were the qualities of being “beautiful” not “less oppressed” (with “beauty” having nothing to do with it). However, TODAY, the VIRULENT ABUSE many AA women, men, and children endure from merely possessing these qualities is INEXCUSABLE. It’s at a level of EXTREME MENTAL ILLNESS. And, even those who “somewhat” possess those preferred qualities are being displaced to “the fringes” for those who have ZERO TRACE of any “blackish” qualities at all (nonblacks).

    “The fact is that many darker AA children receive foul or less-than treatment from other AAs–both children and adults. This is just standard operating procedure among numerous AAs. This is another elephant in the room that the bulk of AAs will never address.”

    This is ABSOLUTELY TRUE. And, IT MAKES ME ILL. When I see black children being maligned, slapped around, yelled at, and neglected simply because they don’t have the “right” color, hair, or features (though the motivation is unspoken), my heart hurts and ACHES for them. Honestly, I cannot UNDERSTAND some of the treatment of black children by their black “parents/family” that I see on the internet. It is UNREAL to me. I am totally flabbergasted and speechless. Actually, when I see abuse/neglect like that, it makes me more empathetic towards those children who later grow up and reject blacks as partners. The “illness” in the AA community is WIDESPREAD and damaging beyond levels that we are even aware. But, SADLY, if we want other AAs to “care” about the plights of our “children”, those children better have the physical traits, be OBVIOUSLY “mixed” or, LOOK NOTHING LIKE US AT ALL.

    SMH….

    Getting one of those kits to learn more about my ancestry, is on my “bucket list”. I would like to know for myself and my children. I think it’s always nice when people know those things.

    “No matter what happens, and no matter what, I am going to come out on top.”

    I think that’s an EXCELLENT objective and mindset. I support that approach ALL THE WAY. I just want to simultaneously encourage AA women to protect, preserve, and respect what THEY HAVE, because a safe, secure home is better than a COMPULSORY, wandering, nomadic existence.

    Happy Holidays!

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  43. DiraD
    Dec 22, 2014 @ 19:56:53

    I want to wish each and every one of you Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! I hope 2015 brings each us love, success, happiness and most of all, peace of mind.

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  44. Formavitae
    Dec 23, 2014 @ 05:11:41

    And, OF COURSE, the groups of people in this country labeled “Hispanic” include more than Mexicans and the countries representing “Asians” are extensive as well.

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  45. Evia
    Dec 23, 2014 @ 09:06:22

    @Mochachoc, re:

    I’m beginning to think there are many black people who don’t like their children at all. Their actions as parents suggest to me they despise them or seen them as a burden.

    I’ve encountered more than enough of these parents in my specialty as a behavior modification professional in NYC, Baltimore, and DE who didn’t like their children. I also have professional acquaintances who don’t like their adult children.

    During my professional life, I worked with a variety of “acting out” clients who were in and out of settings like schools, young adult detention centers, special schools or very restrictive settings such as in psychiatric facilities, etc.These clients were of all groups and races and both genders (mostly male though) but the main groups I dealt with were whites, blacks (almost all AAs), and Hispanics. These clients were mostly lower-middle class, but some were solidly middle class. Of course, there were some on welfare or received subsidies. The poorer the black and white clients were, the more severe their issues were. HOWEVER, this was much less so among Hispanics (mostly Puerto Ricans), and I am convinced this was due to their culture which puts much heavier emphasis on the importance of family and particularly the extended family.

    I noticed that poor whites and their issues are largely hidden in the U.S. unless you go into overwhelmingly impoverished white areas. But when you work with poor white clients, it becomes apparent and there are numerous issues.

    Why willingly bring children into the world if you know your’e setting them up to run the race with their legs tied together? . . . . We’ve had this conversation before but it is one reason I do not support hitting children. I simply do not believe that many black parents do this out of love and a desire to guide their children.

    Many people bring children into the world because it’s expected, but most people are never told the truth about life. Bringing children into a situation in which there is a culture and network of people to wrap around those children is VERY different than bringing them into a situation where they mainly or ONLY have their parents to fend for them and cover all the bases. If you’re trying to raise children in the latter situation, it can become very overwhelming and most of the time, you’re simply not going to cover many important bases–even when there is more than enough money. Money does not replace people resources. This is why I knew it was vital for me to create an intentional community when I was raising my sons in DE. Fortunately, I was able to convince a group of other like-minded parents of the sheer necessity of this, and our children all benefited 1000% from that.

    It depends on what you mean by “hitting.” But if a child is raised in an environment of CONSISTENCY, order, love, balance, and proper guidance where their needs are a priority and are recognized and addressed in a timely and sufficient manner, those children may only need to be spanked occasionally, if at all. Usually, only signals are needed to keep children on track, but they need to be taught the signals and the consequences of ignoring the signals must be applied consistently. Many parents these days do not take the time or are too lazy to be consistent with their children or are NOT consistent with their children because they NEED for their children to like them and be their friend. Many OOW mothers and even some married ones NEED and crave affection from their children since they have no else in their life to provide that affection or love. This greatly harms children because children need their parents to be parents–NOT friends.

    Recently, I’ve been thinking about the practice of sending children back to Jamaica because “the schools are so much better” than in England.

    AA Blacks who had left down south used to send their children back to their southern black parents and families when their children weren’t faring well in the northern cities or were in jeopardy in some way. This is why I was raised Down South when my parents’ marriage collapsed in NYC. My father took me from NYC where I was born back to his home and family in Alabama and I was raised there by a large extended family. This was not unique in those days; it was a standard practice. Nigerians still do this sometimes. This is BECAUSE it is so much more natural and wholesome for children to be raised by “a village,” meaning inside a cultural or extended family backdrop by a network of caring people vs one or two parents trying to raise a child around a bunch of strangers who usually have different values and have no interest in your child. If I had remained in NYC, I would have been destroyed by the NYC social environment just like my now-DBR NYC cousins who had no escape.

    These children return as teenagers and unsurprisingly feel resentment toward their parents.

    When I was a child, I often thought it was so unfair that I had to grow up in the backwoods of Alabama instead of “exciting” NYC where I was born–LOL, but when I grew up, I was so THANKFUL that my dad got me out of there.

    Someone alluded to the fact that many black parents can’t wait for their children to reach age 18.

    Due to the total collapse of AA culture, MOST black parents no longer have critical parenting skills, so their children often become unmanageable or overwhelming to them at an early age. And it goes downhill from there.

    It’s hard to distinguish young black Caribbean’s and Africans nowadays but I suspect many of the night time zombies are the children of British-Caribbean’s. Sadly, the children of Africans are heading in the same direction.

    It’s virtually guaranteed that the children of Africans will soon share the same fate as British-Caribbean and AA children because as I mentioned above, so many Africans devalue their language and culture and instead worship the $$$ and supposed superiority of European ways.

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  46. Evia
    Dec 23, 2014 @ 09:33:54

    Re:

    I think it was Evia who said we’re very unforgiving toward Black women who make a mistake.

    If by mistake, you mean an OOW pregnancy, yes life is unforgiving of that. Historically, OOW children have NEVER been forgiven in any society because this child puts a permanent burden on other people–unless that mother is wealthy and can use her money to address all of her child’s needs. The non-legally or non-culturally bound man usually always leaves in every society. This is not brand new, so I can’t figure out how ANY woman these days doesn’t know this by now. Since the cultures have collapsed, a bw MUST do ALL in her power to bind a man (via the legal structure–MARRIAGE– that’s been provided and enforced by the society) to her and her child IF she’s sexing a man because there is HIGHLY likely to be a pregnancy at some point.

    So, taking a harsh position against OOW or bastard children is not a matter of lacking compassion. IMO, it’s actually showing GREAT compassion. This is a very practical way to PREVENT many of the most pressing problems and lots of suffering that usually continue throughout the life of that OOW person. Just look at what’s happening with these black males being killed by the police in this country. I would bet that ALL of them were born to OOW/downtrodden parents who were ill-prepared to have them.Yes, I realize that this could happen to any black male, but from what I’ve read, none of these bm were raised well. WHY weren’t they taught to obey authority figures? Even when authority figures are 100% wrong, you must still obey them and they must then be fought so that YOU can come out on top or at least break even–not be buried. WHY weren’t they taught that they couldn’t win a fight against the entire police force? These are questions that the AA community refuses to address because new school AAs absolutely refuse to “judge” poor choices these days and they think you’re trying to torture them if you talk about the mistakes they make. LOL Y’all had better be thrilled you didn’t grow up in the “old school” way. Your mistakes would be smeared in your face EVERYDAY.

    I would bet that these males were raised by their mamas and mothers usually fail when they try to raise sons alone–and especially in the midst of a non-helpful or sick surrounding subculture. Women were NEVER meant to raise and socialize male children–ALONE. Aside from a minority of exceptions, it’s never been done successfully anywhere at any time by any group of women.

    Another thing we have to be completely honest about is that most bw do NOT know how to vet men or choose fathers for their children. In truth, the overwhelming most of AA women, for sure, do NOT have quality mate or fatherhood material in their social circles, but that’s the biggest elephant in the room that NO ONE is going to ever address anytime soon. Saddest of all is that most bw refuse to leave those social circles, so they will continue to bring children into the world to suffer unnecessarily.

    One little mistake and others will consign you to the rubbish heap.

    This is because SOME of us with common sense KNOW that “one little mistake” made by millions of people is guaranteed to produce GREAT suffering for a lot of ALL of us.

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  47. Karen
    Dec 25, 2014 @ 08:39:45

    As an AA BW that is a tax payer in Western Europe who pays a tremendous amount of taxes as compared to U.S. citizens, I can tell you that the citizens here are 100% totally fed up with subsidizing the “Baby Momma” dysfunction and it is on its way out.

    Let me be clear, I also support the elimination of subsidizing this dysfunction.

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    • Rae
      Dec 25, 2014 @ 09:17:38

      May I ask which country you live in? I want to live in Western Europe soooo bad! Also, how did u end up there ??? You’re sooo lucky !!!

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    • Lulu
      Dec 25, 2014 @ 10:24:00

      Karen, I’ve never lived in Europe so I don’t know the situation first hand. But after reading the blog and watching the videos of the AABW expat we were discussing, I too am disgusted. The way she talks about all the subsidies she gets just over there just rubs me the wrong way. It’s almost like she encourages her followers and subscribers to come over, get pregnant, and take advantage like she has.

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    • Neecy
      Dec 25, 2014 @ 11:33:33

      Karen,

      I think its embaressing that these BW are going over to Europe doing this nonsense.

      I am starting to relaize that a lot of the Black woman’s main problems are created by BLACK WOMEN.

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  48. Neecy
    Dec 25, 2014 @ 11:31:25

    I am so over irresponsible BW doing this stuff. Its like what does it take for BW to see that being a BABY MOMMA only hurts HER and her offspring?

    Seriously. Enough is enough already.

    I’m sorry. but at the end of the day a woman is the one who makes the choice to lay down with a man and makes the last choice when it comes to her body and such.

    No woman should be going through any childbirth for a man that is not willing to even MARRY HERE nad share his last name.

    This is really getting on my nerves with so many adult BW who should know better.

    But this is the result of supreme INSECURITY and a motivation to get unconditional love.

    But what BW fail to relaize is that having kids without a father around, will only cause many of those kids to have animosity and some resentment towards her for not even giving them a chance to have a full family.

    UGFH. I’m so over this nonsense!

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  49. Evia
    Dec 26, 2014 @ 07:12:09

    Re the comments here about the increasing number of bw becoming “swirl baby mamas,” and as we approach 2015, I’m going to drill down and ask some hardball questions here and make some hardball statements to consider.

    Are SOME of these swirl baby mama bw doing this deliberately to to lighten/whiten their children? Are they grabbing the white man’s GENES? In that case, they are not being played or duped by these wm. Women of this type do NOT care whether the wm marries them or not. They are simply going after a wm’s GENES or feel that no matter what, they still get his genes into their child(ren), so it may be a win-win situation for them since marriage was never a priority to them.

    I believe that this is the case in SOME of these situations though it is VERY un-PC at this point for any of these bw to admit it. I don’t believe that ALL of these women are so dumb or inept with men to think that a pregnancy = a commitment or marriage. It is highly probable that SOME bw want a whiter child for the same reason that some Asian women want a whiter child (a child who will be more likely to access and claim some of the hegemonic privileges of whites) and this is a prime reason why they mate and marry wm. They openly talk about giving their children more privileges and higher status in America (meaning “white” status) by MARRYING A WHITE MAN, especially in a country like the U.S. where race drives practically everything. Asian women of this type don’t make a secret about this motivation of theirs and therefore reject even the most wonderful Asian men as mates.

    However, bw know that if they talk openly like this, they will be sliced and diced–even by at least 90% of other bw.

    Also, I have an in-law–an Asian male–who is married to one of Darren’s black-biracial nieces. When they were visiting from China a couple of years ago, he and I had a very illuminating chat. He told me that he applauds what I do with the Ezine and that when he got back to China, he might set up a similar Ezine encouraging as many Chinese women as possible to mate and marry white American men. He pointed out that this would be SO wonderful for those women and their families to be able to gain access to higher status and many practical perks and privileges that a marriage to a wm would provide them. This was a Chinese MAN saying this and we know there’s currently a scarcity of Chinese women for Chinese men to marry in China. Still, it was obvious that to him (as it definitely is to me), that it’s not just a matter of ensuring that each Chinese man gets a woman to marry, but that in his view, it’s so much more important to the Chinese as a group for the woman to MARRY WELL. He was talking about sheer hypergamy and linking it to the uplift of the entire group of them. THIS is the kind of mentality that puts people ON TOP or enables them to win at the surviving and thriving game. At the end of the day, winning at this is the only thing that counts.

    I’m also putting this on the table since I received a note from a reader last week asserting that the main reason that a portion of AAbm and similar other bm are standing in line to reproduce with ANY ww whether she is obese, very unattractive, smelly, has warts, snaggle-toothed, homeless, or those who have been proven to have low morals and or low IQs is because these bm simply want the ww’s GENES in their children. That’s the priority for them. Nothing else matters or even comes close. They have obviously reached the conclusion that AAs as a group are finished. This does explain some of the bm-ww couples we see and does explain why these same bm would never have interest in a similar bw or even one who is much more appealing in every way.

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    • IamKM
      Dec 26, 2014 @ 08:51:02

      1. Yes, many of these BW are procreating with WM just for their genes, so their children can be lighter/whiter and have more opportunities.

      2. Same thing for some BM who will mate with any WW. You can say for a certain caliber of BM who date WW, this is hypergamy for them, insuring their children have white genes and may possibly have more opportunities available to them.

      3. White American men are more open to marrying interracially and many of them have lost their ethnic group ties outside of being American so there’s less chance of worrying about having to fit into their family. It’s actually a win for AW, they not only have the best access to dating WM interracially, WM also tend not to have strong ethnic ties the way that European WM do so they can contort the WM to fitting in with their desired mores and traditions.

      4. I’ve been watching the way things have been going in society and I feel that the USA is transitioning from being a strict race based society to a race based society that will be more like the societies in the different Latin American countries. The darker you are, you’ll still be on the bottom but the 1% rule will be gone as the biracials, multiracials, etc. will be in their own group and not claimed by anyone else. They’ll be treated better than the AAs though, just like now.

      Re OOW babies and benefits: I have no issues with the subsidies being cut. I’m almost 31, never married and no children. I’ve been sexually active and I know how to make sure I don’t get pregnant and I have funds to get an abortion if that fails. I have no respect for women in my age group who get “magically” pregnant when they should know what I know AND put it into practice. I’m really tried of upwardly mobile BW getting “magically” OOW pregnant.

      It’s like this, they engage in risky practices, get pregnant/diseases, and then when anyone asks them why, they say it’s their life. And when they are rightfully judged, they claim slut shaming. Yet, they have their hands out in so many ways looking for extra cash, babysitting, etc.

      Yup, shaming needs to come back and come back hard.

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      • Evia
        Dec 26, 2014 @ 11:07:04

        @IamKM, re:

        the biracials, multiracials, etc. will be in their own group and not claimed by anyone else. They’ll be treated better than the AAs though, just like now.

        I think there are many nuances here, just as in every other area of life. Given that everything else is equal or fairly equal, lightness of skin runs a good chance of opening the door for better treatment and an easier life. However IF things are not roughly equal, then the lightness factor will prove to have no value, little value, or minus value. For ex, let’s say a woman is a biracial woman like Halle Berry, but she grows up in a “typical” background of the AA black ethnic group or an outright dysfunctional background (as many people do), her lighter skin tone then is not going to get rid of those critical deficits because a typical background/dysfunctional background tends to give a person a set of failure-prone or failure-causing habits of mind. Many people continue to overlook that factor. This is why the term “wasted yellow” originated back in the day. It means that despite being a “high yaller-” skinned person, that person STILL failed in life.

        For any typical bw who is not succeeding presently, her habits of mind is mostly what’s at the root of this. For ex., magical thinking is a habit of mind that floors a lot of AAbw or weighs them way down. Always looking for somebody to rescue or help/save is another habit of mind that invites failure. Remaining connected to hole-drillers is also a matter of a habit of mind. Talking about what they’re fixna, tryna do are other failure-producing habits of mind. No matter what complexion a woman has, if she doesn’t know how to vet males around her, she’s most likely a goner. As a matter of fact, if a woman looks like Halle Berry and doesn’t know how to vet males, she will become prime prey FIRST. That’s virtually guaranteed.

        Since I’m not a binary thinker, I know that if it were only a matter of lightening or whitening skin shades, it would then be very easy to get rid of the bulk of AA bw’s present condition in a generation or two. I say that because some AA women already have enough “white” genes to produce white or almost white children right now if they reproduced with wm. Others could do it in 2 generations and 2 generations can happen quickly these days. If we are actually discussing solutions for relieving bw’s suffering and raising the status in a significant, lasting way instead of continuing to talk about the same-ole, same-ole, then this possible solution should be openly and constantly discussed.

        The question is: Would this actually work? I ask that because there are probably tens of thousands of Puerto Rican women in this country and in PR who look like J-Lo but are at the bottom of the barrel in terms of living conditions. So, I’ve concluded that the reason why some women with lighter skin are on top is because of the “in-it-to-win-it” mentality that either she has or that’s the mentality that surrounds her in her identity group. The surrounding mentality of her social group is CRITICAL.

        I could be wrong, but I’m convinced that the “in-it-to-win it” mentality will defeat all other mentalities since that’s a mentality that is supported by nature.Therefore, women of any complexion can “win,” depending on her embracing that mentality and then learning HOW to act on it and then doing it 24-7.

        As I said, I’ve seen other critical aspects of life since I’ve lived a different life than typical AA women, but if some of y’all believe that lightening AA black childrens’ complexions by inputting more and more white genes is the prime way or significant way to get rid of a lot of their suffering or the way to lessen the probability of them living marginal lives, then y’all should be shouting this solution from the rooftops–no matter who doesn’t like it. Not doing so is really morally reprehensible.

        Re shaming–it WORKED bigtime!! LOL Of course, there were minimal exceptions, but if I’d gotten pregnant with an OOW child, I would have NEVER wanted anyone where I grew up to know about it. I would have paid “hush money” to keep it a secret or would have concocted a major lie to pretend that I was married to a man who I’d met somewhere who probably conveniently got killed in the service overseas.LOL That was actually the type of lie that was sometimes used to cover up some OOW pregnancies back in the day, when possible.

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        • IamKM
          Dec 27, 2014 @ 17:32:21

          @Evia,

          Yes, it’ll be a mixture of skin color, ethnic group, and mores. The class a person is in will set the path of their life unless they have the will to go for more. Like you said, those who are in-it-to-win-it will be successful. The women who are looking to breed lighter and whiter are a very small group, imo. However, it’s being set up that everyone of all races who don’t want to try to be successful will be at the bottom forever as the economy contracts. But that is a conversation for a different blog.

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    • Rae
      Dec 26, 2014 @ 09:53:45

      Evia I do believe that is what some black women are doing, my moms coworker’s sister in law did this! The sister in law lives a few blocks from me, we were told she always planned for we children to have a white father. She had twins out of wedlock with a russian man. Boy and girl. They are also still together.HOWEVER, she is financially secure and he is the director of a hospital. The twins are bilingual( speak russian and English ) but, she was engaged to a white man before this but he died of cancer. At the end of the day I know this woman has no regrets.
      I truthfully can not blame black women for doing this. Black men have failed us. As I read history I’m starting to realize the vast majority of powerful black people starting at the end of slavery being legalized was BIRACIAL who were the offspring of black men and and white women. I’m starting to believe black men never cared to fight or want to fight against white supremacy. I also think many black women are waking up a century late and realized they have been bamboozled. Again, I don’t blame black women their only doing this to survive. Btw, the black women I know who’ve had babies out of wedlock are very financially secure and so is the father.

      On the side note: I’ve notice all groups of minorities in my generation want to marry and date a white person. I can only speak about here in america but who ever said america is moving to a hierarchy like Latina america is right. Biracial do get treated better then monoracial blacks. Black men have contributed to this more than white men though. I strongly believe this. I want no part of it and I do not want my future children to grow up in this country.

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  50. Evia
    Dec 26, 2014 @ 07:20:09

    Let me add that this Chinese man stressed that he would advocate for Chinese women to specifically marry white “AMERICAN” men, not just just any wm. LOL I don’t know how prevalent his views are, but we can certainly see that many Asian women–and NOT just Chinese women–ARE pursuing this strategy.

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  51. Evia
    Dec 26, 2014 @ 12:03:25

    @Rae, re:

    I truthfully can not blame black women for doing this. Black men have failed us.

    I have to ask: What does black men’s failings have to do with YOU, as a woman, choosing the best CQLL man that you can find for yourself? These two are separate and distinct.

    I know you don’t realize this, but you’ve proven beyond any doubt that you’ve been heavily influenced by the typical AAbw’s failing thought process. I know it’s not your fault; you’ve probably been around lots of typical AAbw, almost exclusively. I know this because typical other black women don’t think like this at all. And as I said in a previous comment, even though Asian men can be fabulous marital candidates, Asian women and various other women opt to be with the men who they consider the best CQLL man for them–personally. I’m just saying that if you were in the midst of non-AA people, and if you were to let slip any hint of this type of thinking, they would know that bm are STILL your 1st choice and that other men are your 2nd choice or the men of last resort. LOL! You wouldn’t even need to say this in a blatant way, as you did here.

    Here’s the thing: For many non-black and non-AA people, AAbw’s huge uncommitted, unpartnered rate says to them that AAbm are the ONLY men that AAbw want. These folks do NOT believe that AAbw are having any actual difficulty finding “other” men to commit to them. And I don’t either.

    So this is a political statement you’ve made. However, for typical AAbw, their political and personal/romantic lives are totally interwoven. SMH As we can see everyday, they are unable to separate the two.

    If you have an itch, you should scratch it. It doesn’t matter what ANY bm is doing unless you believe that you’re a part of a bm’s body.

    The choice of a mate that any bw chooses has NOTHING to do with what black men or anyone else is doing. This is YOUR choice. Trust me. Lots of AAbm, for sure, know how to hook into that type of “political” statement that so many AAbw make and manipulate them to keep bw as their political partners and their soldiers but not their marital partners and increasingly not the women with whom they share their resources.

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    • Rosie Posie
      Dec 27, 2014 @ 08:45:05

      You said “These folks do NOT believe that AAbw are having any actual difficulty finding “other” men to commit to them. “. I have a hard question about this. I’m talking about in the United States NOW. Abroad is a different story.

      When a woman from a group with less social perks (like BW in the US) marries up, doesn’t it negatively effect the man who marries her? Then wouldn’t this make men think twice about marrying her? Wouldn’t it make it more difficult to marry a higher status man? In hypergamy, he woman gets perks (status, money, etc.) in the marriage but not the man.

      When men marry out of the group (ethnic, social, economic, or class, etc.), especially to a woman who is not considered same/higher status or considered part of a problem group, doesn’t the group turns on him to pressure him to fall in line? Wouldn’t his ingroup shame/pressure him so they can keep the outgroup out of their ranks? I’ve heard of families using threats of withholding inheritance, support, etc. to keep the son in line. Sons usually hold all of the status and the inheritance. He also passes on his last name. Wouldn’t his group turn on him so that his marriage/procreation choice wouldn’t bring them “down”? So that he can’t pass his name, inheritance, status on to someone out of his group or ruin their group’s status?

      I understand things have changed in the US, but some of the barriers are still up. You talked about other non bm having many options. Why would a man marry “down socially”? How would that benefit him? I always thought one of the reasons many upwardly mobile ir open quality healthy bw NOW have a hard time finding QLL nonbm mates was the negative stereotypes and stigma attached to bw. Wouldn’t nonbm in the US avoid bw as marriage partners and select other women that have less of a negative stigma? He could avoid the negative social consequences that can pass on to him as well. He can lose his job/connections, some people in his group might turn on him, he could lose social power, etc. The consequences would also pass to the next generation. A child that he has with a bw would likely not be able to “pass” unlike with a nonbw and receive the same consequences.

      I understand a man marries for different reasons in a woman…but I’m curious about your above statement.

      Sorry about my grammar. This is on a phone.

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      • Evia
        Dec 27, 2014 @ 12:47:58

        Rosie Posie, I hear ya, but it doesn’t help to look at this situation like a sociology project because what it comes down to is ONE woman and ONE man meeting, liking each other’s appearance and social presentation skills, vetting, meshing, marrying, etc. Each woman’s goal should be to position HERSELF to find or be found by Mr. ONE CQLL man. Societal social status is not actually real. That stuff is mostly in SOME peoples’ heads. It’s NOT in other peoples’ heads at all.

        For ex., I never even thought about any of that until I started reading some of the comments on these sites. Darren’s has a brother who is a medical doctor and he’s married to a bw who doesn’t have professional credentials. He obviously didn’t think about all of those factors you mentioned. Darren didn’t think about them either. So, I believe there are more than enough other wm like them out there.

        The factors you mentioned don’t carry that much weight IF a woman gets a man’s interest and knows how to keep it. If a man finds a woman mentally interesting and physically stimulating enough (and she only needs average looks for this, but displayed attractively), then ALL of what you mentioned will go out the window in at least half the cases. And given the percentage of wm in the population compared to the much smaller percentage of bw, the numbers are on the bw’s side.

        You may be thinking about wm’s “status” but remember that’s actually a construct. It’s an artificial notion. Meanwhile, there are numerous lonely wm strewn across this country who were in bed alone last night and being alone is REAL. LOL! None of them could snuggle up against their “status.”

        Anyway, my husband, Darren, says that wm and bw have to be in the same social spaces more in order to meet each other naturally, so that they can mingle with each other and talk. Or they just have to be able to talk more. For ex., he and I talked for a while when we first met. Of course, he was doing a first-level vetting of me to see whether he wanted to take it further. Likewise, I sat there vetting him also. But while we were talking, I flirted with him. LOL! I knew that even if I weren’t interested and even if he weren’t interested enough to want to take it further, he would think about me for a while. LOL. A woman needs to know how to leave that impression on a man–even if she’s not particularly interested in him. Flirting can be fun. As a young woman, I learned how to do it by watching other women “perform” in a flirtatious way with men. It was just something we did in those days, but it always works. I still do that with men when I might want or need them to do me a slight favor because it makes them feel good. For ex., just recently, I flirted with a young wm checkout desk attendant at the library so that I could get a book without paying a fine I owed. Mild flirting can take a woman a long way!

        The fact is that in my observations (and I make it a point to do a lot of observing since I write about this topic), AA women, in particular, don’t appear to care about being competitive in the mating arena and I’m referring to their clothing and their presentation skills. When I go out socially, I notice the way bw are dressed, the way they behave socially, etc. and I see that the typical western-raised bw either doesn’t seem to have made any effort to look or behave in an appealing way or if she does, she WAY overdoes it (dressing-wise.) Being overweight/obese, unfriendly AND sour-looking, and dressing in drab colors renders her non-competitive.

        Where’s the spark, zest, and lightheartedness that young women are supposed to exhibit in public and in social gatherings??

        I went to a holiday gathering on Christmas at my son’s new home where he had invited a variety of people–not just family. I didn’t know who might be there, so I dressed for the occasion such that I’d be suitably dressed, no matter who might be there.This is how I was raised because you never know who you might meet. Even if you’re a happily married woman, you still want to look appealing and feel comfortable, compared to others present. I was looking okay, I guess, and several people complimented me on my attire, my jewelry, and my nails that were done in a subdued but sparkly polish to match the season.

        Anyway, there were AA women and African-raised women of two generations at the gathering. None of the African women were obese but they weren’t thin either. They had round, shapely figures. ALL of these African women were dressed in beautiful, stylishly-cut western attire, matching jewelry, and wore artfully applied facial makeup. They strutted around like peacocks. LOL I should also mention that all of the African women are married and have children, but they still dress stylishly and obviously watch their weight.

        Likewise, the AA women in my age category were also dressed beautifully and were not overweight. Of the 3 of them present, one is married.

        However the few younger AA women were overweight/fat, glum in behavior, and drably dressed in dull clothing. One of them is married, but there was NO sparkle or gaiety coming from them at this holiday affair. That says a LOT about the MENTALITY of these women. Didn’t they know they were supposed to behave in at least a somewhat festive manner?

        There were several single, younger bm there, but the males just hung out together and I didn’t see any attempt on either side to socialize with each other, beyond the usual. The only white person present was Darren.

        So, yes, some of those factors you mentioned DO interfere with the rate of BWIR in this country, but there are other factors and nuances that are interfering MORE.

        Too many YOUNGER western-raised bw have obviously internalized too much of the constant poison drip, and I know that because some of y’all actually repeat the poison and talk about it as if it’s real–which further spreads it and reinforces it impact.

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        • Rae
          Dec 27, 2014 @ 14:35:13

          Evia, this response was everything. I dress dull like most young black women but this summer I stopped and wore bright colors. You are absolutely right most black women and young black girls have internalized this. I believe many black girls have take it ‘Tone it down ‘a little too far’Black girls have been called disgusting names when it comes to their skin complexion so I don’t blame them that they don’t try. It has taken me a lot of strength to start wearing right Colors. I didn’t realize how much it showed off my complexion! I couldn’t stop lookin in the mirror! Lol I believe many black women are mentally ill. I just spoke to my stepmother and she revealed to me that she was diagnosed with depression. Doesn’t surprise me. Happy she is starting therapy which is what many black women need. 2015 I’ve made it my goal to lose weight and to put effort into my appearence. I’m doing this for ME! 🙂

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        • JaliliMaster
          Dec 27, 2014 @ 17:02:45

          I had already started writing a reply to Rosie Posie, but after reading your comment, I deleted what I wrote as I felt that you said all I was going to say better than I could have. BW need to stop looking at this as some ‘group’ thing, as if when they are dating, they are dating an entire group. You are not. You are dating that individual man, and that particular man is dating you, an individual bw, not the entire black female collective.

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        • Formavitae
          Dec 27, 2014 @ 18:15:49

          Evia,

          I AGREE with your observations of many younger AA women and females.

          I think ONE part of the problem is the identification with the hip-hop “culture” and mentality. I remember Aaliyah being a romanticized “tomboy”-ish girl. Then you have the glamorized “hood” chick. And, just the whole blue jean, Timberland, baggy sweats culture/style. It’s almost like younger AA females either dress like males or they dress TOO provocatively. I attribute dressing like males to either identifying with the male personae in the ABC world or trying to protect themselves from (further) sexual assault. And, I attribute dressing TOO provocatively to trying to appeal to DBRs the only way they know how and/or seeking love after abandonment/abuse. The “balanced, middle-ground” seems to be anathema to many younger AAs.

          I, for one, am addressing this with myself. I’ve always been a “girly-girl” AND LOVED all things beauty, fashion, romance, etc. However, I’ve also always wanted to be a wife and woman of “good virtue”. So, I struggled between looking “pretty” and being “modest”. I found that I had more conflicts with this as I got older and put a lot more work and sacrifice into achieving certain goals.

          I am a clinically overweight woman (I’m working on this) who is considered by MOST people to be “normal” in size (12 usually, 14-16 when I’m REALLY slacking). Nevertheless, I have a well-proportioned hourglass figure. And, males have ALWAYS liked that (all races, too). So, I developed a frustration with/fear of being valued primarily for my body rather than all of the other attributes of myself that I value MORE (like intelligence, good integrity, family orientation, tenacity, etc.).

          FURTHERMORE, I sacrificed certain things (like shopping, going to the beautician regularly, other beautification rituals) so that I could complete my education. My style became more “practical, utilitarian, durable” in nature. And, honestly, I never realized that making such sacrifices/behaving in such a manner for an extended period of time would have such an impact on my PSYCHE.

          I’M STILL a “girly-girl”, fashion lover, beauty and romance ENTHUSIAST. But, I’d been disconnected from that part of myself for SO LONG. I looked in the mirror and realized this is not the WHOLE, COMPLETE “me”. I want the INTEGRATED “me”. And, I’m actively working on making that happen.

          One thing I LOVE is fragrance. I buy expensive fragrances, so I’ve used them sparingly and on special occasions. I decided I was going to start wearing my fragrances every time I go to work. (I work in health care and had been formerly trained NOT to wear fragrances.) Let me tell you, PEOPLE NOTICE. People ask what I’m wearing or make casual comments on how “something smells good”. I’ve also noticed that males (and female) look at/respond to you differently when you smell “good” and not just “odor-free”. I’m executing my plan to bring the rest of me “out of the closet”. I’d been “hibernating” ON PURPOSE. I’m done with that now.

          I’m not “skinny”, but I have trained myself to jog several miles and over two hours straight. It took me several weeks, but not as long as I’d expected (however, I’d been a runner in the past, before breaking a leg and having an extended timeout for recovery). I’m also working on my eating habits and slowly losing weight. However, let me tell you, this obesity epidemic is REAL and SERIOUS. Patients are coming in at heavier and heavier weights ALL THE TIME. And, it’s hard to care for them, because their body habitus is so large. It’s even difficult to perform CPR effectively.

          I recently saw a heavy patient whose younger family members came to visit, and they were ALSO morbidly obese (or nearly). Various family members sleep in waiting rooms and you hear them snoring LOUDLY, likely due to some sleep disorder resulting from excess body weight. It’s blacks AND whites. This is becoming a SERIOUS national issue.

          My BASIC (though extended) point is that it IS TRUE that younger AA women need to focus on self-care and beautification more. They also need to stop identifying with the hip hop “culture” and mentality. Unfortunately, younger AAs have such POOR EXAMPLES in the popular media.

          I recently purchased the book “Vintage Black Glamour” because I love history and Old Hollywood, and it was refreshing to see SO MANY AA women who were fit, fashionable, and beautiful. And, as I watch so many old movies on TCM, I realize Americans used to be MUCH thinner and they used to eat MUCH smaller meals. They even have healthy dinner plates and portions in those movies (though the meal/food is not a focus itself).

          AA women/girls need a well-rounded approach to self-improvement. First, we must realize WE NEED improvement (without negating our worth). There are so many layers and complexities to these issues we face. But, they aren’t insurmountable. We just have to decide the fate we want, what it REALISTICALLY takes to get there, and DO it.

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          • Evia
            Dec 27, 2014 @ 19:03:45

            Formavitae, sounds like you’ve done a thorough assessment of where you are and where you want go and why. That’s the critical first step As long as you move actively on the path you’ve set out, you’ll reach your destination–step by step. And sometimes, you may have to tweak a few things, but that’s ok. Just do it and get back on the path. You WILL arrive!

            I have to say that I’ve always automatically done much of what you detailed. I have never been a girly girl, but when I was coming of age, much of that was a part of a routine that young women just did regularly without thinking about it, and we just did it simultaneously with everything else we were doing, so I never looked at it as anything out of the ordinary. A LOT of the emphasis in those days was placed on the BEHAVIOR that a young woman should exhibit , for best results, but of course, appropriate attire, polished shoes, plus a bit of makeup, neat appealing hairstyle, etc. was important too. Nothing excessive EVER! There was balance.

            And Hip Hop has had a beyond bizarre impact on so many young blacks!! If I’d known then what I know now about it, I would NEVER have allowed my sons to listen to it. But that’s just it. It NEVER impacted my sons in a negative way. It was just something they listened to sometimes or they would just watch the videos. They got tired of that at one point and went on to the next phase of their lives just like some of us played with dolls at one point, but outgrew them.

            And yeah, the weight situation in this country is just unreal. I know that many whites and others are also obese. I don’t mention them because they’re not bw and also because we know a ww’s overweight doesn’t impact her socially nearly as much or not in the same way that a bw’s does. Healthwise though, it’s the same.

            Oh well, off to get horizontal. LOL

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            • Formavitae
              Dec 27, 2014 @ 19:18:54

              Evia,

              THANKS, for your encouragement.

              The impact of hip hop IS UNREAL. Unfortunately, too many youth see it as “real life”/”reality” rather than a construction. Furthermore, they emulate the lyrics they hear which impacts the realities they live (which seems to reinforce that the message of hip hop is “legitimate”, I guess).

              “Oh well, off to get horizontal. LOL”

              ENJOY! 😉

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            • Silver Roxen
              Dec 27, 2014 @ 19:46:15

              About Hiphop it would be interesting if someone did a study on how it impacts youth. It is odd how some young black people my age listen to it and internalize the messages and beahviors of rappers and others don’t. I suspect it could have something to do with values. There was one point in time where I was heavily into hiphop, but it didn’t influence the way I acted, this could have been because of my values, even though I am a part of the lower class, and the fact that I am somewhat of a geek, so there was no use in trying to be cool lol :P.

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              • Formavitae
                Dec 27, 2014 @ 20:11:22

                Silver Roxen,

                “There was one point in time where I was heavily into hiphop, but it didn’t influence the way I acted, this could have been because of my values, even though I am a part of the lower class, and the fact that I am somewhat of a geek, so there was no use in trying to be cool lol :P.”

                YOU’RE FUNNY.

                I STILL love heavy bass and a good rhythm. I purchased edited versions of hip hop music, because I just couldn’t stand the vulgarity after so many listens. However, I’ve stopped purchasing it, due to the denigration of AA women. I pretty much purchase rock for the heavy bass. But, I like a variety of music styles, and I just don’t listen to the radio as much anymore, these days.

                However, I realized a lot of the music we grew up listening to had crap messages, like “You Can Have a Piece of My Love,” by Guy (which used to be one of my favorite songs). I was too young to understand what the lyrics really meant. But, I had lots of other familial, religious, and educational socialization that steered me in a different direction and provided me a different set of values. That’s why I rejected “BET”/”In Living Color” type culture from a young age. They never epitomized “being black” for me. And, since I didn’t like the message/images, I rejected it.

                I, TOO, am a “nerd”. Been called one. But, never considered it anything other than A COMPLIMENT.

                Once upon a time, I would have been interested in investigating the impact of hip hop on youth and why some succumb while others don’t. But, these days, I’m too tired to invest any energy into that. I believe it’s because I’m getting older and I look at life like “ACTION–OUTCOME”. Furthermore, I’m trying to strengthen the future for myself and my descendants as well as be the best I can be for the ancestors who made so many sacrifices for me. However, I would be interested in reading the findings of anyone who pursued that topic as a study.

                You’re VERY BLESSED to have not been misled by such negative influences, and so am I.

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          • Silver Roxen
            Dec 27, 2014 @ 19:23:55

            My situation is similar to yours. I was always praised for my intelligence and accomplishments, so I felt that since I was not recognized for being pretty, I never did anything about it. However, I too am into beauty and the like, this interest started when I became a teenager. I am trying to dress in a modest, but appealing way, for I dress in jeans, t-shirts, and canvas sneakers, with earrings, but I definitely could improve my appearance. You are right about the mainstream not being the place for young AA women to learn how to beautify themselves, this is why I read beauty and femininity blogs. Plus I love looking at pictures of BW from past decades, they were the epitome of femininity. In regards to improving yourself I send you my best regards.

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            • Formavitae
              Dec 27, 2014 @ 19:53:53

              Silver Roxen,

              HOW SWEET! Thank you.

              “My situation is similar to yours. I was always praised for my intelligence and accomplishments, so I felt that since I was not recognized for being pretty, I never did anything about it.”

              I was noticing, just today, when looking at some online photos how many AAs don’t “doll up” their little “black” girls like they do their “mixed” girls. The little mixed girl was in a dress, tights, dress shoes, with hair ribbons. The little black girl was in pink stretch pants with a hooded sweat shirt. We teach children how to view themselves, by the way we treat them from an early age.

              One other factor, that I think is important, is socioeconomics. I DO believe many AA women/girls wear jeans and the like because it’s more affordable and functional for their lifestyle–particularly, if they aren’t in a professional or educational environment.

              “However, I too am into beauty and the like, this interest started when I became a teenager.”

              IT’S FUN, isn’t it?!

              “I am trying to dress in a modest, but appealing way, for I dress in jeans, t-shirts, and canvas sneakers, with earrings, but I definitely could improve my appearance.”

              Yes. I TOTALLY understand you, when it comes to concerns about modesty. But, maybe, we focus on modesty TOO MUCH? I’ve been coming to terms with accepting/enhancing the physical beauty of my person without feeling like it equals being “diminished” for who I am internally. I think you probably understand what I’m saying.

              When I was growing up, I wore lots of dresses, skirts, suits, nylons, and the like, because I went to parochial schools with dress code. My mother always provided that for me. That’s why I was SO TIRED of it once I was in my late teens. But, now, I’m missing it. I would encourage you to consider adding skirts, dresses, and other “women only” apparel to your wardrobe. There are things that make women unique which men GREATLY appreciate. I wear fewer things now, because I want to slim down. That’s why I’m focusing on becoming fitter and getting the excess weight off, so that I can enhance my feminine attributes and ENJOY the appreciation they receive.

              “You are right about the mainstream not being the place for young AA women to learn how to beautify themselves, this is why I read beauty and femininity blogs. Plus I love looking at pictures of BW from past decades, they were the epitome of femininity. ”

              It’s unfortunate that so many AA girls/women get the message that you’re either “mixed and beautiful” or “black and dull”. In addition to working on my appearance, I have been focusing on personal etiquette and the way I speak/conduct myself in public. The language one uses still influences whether others view one as “a lady”. I remain mindful of that, though there are many pressures to be vulgar as a way of proving one is “down to earth”.

              I also WISH YOU WELL on your journey to accept your physical beauty, enhance it, and enjoy the benefits it brings.

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    • drwishes2001
      Dec 27, 2014 @ 09:40:47

      Taking a page from Lynn’s book…”I feel the need to say it here because I’m getting some strong ‘hole-drilling’ vibes”

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    • Rae
      Dec 27, 2014 @ 09:51:18

      One could simply take a look at the situation De Blasio is in after talking about his mixed race son and the police. What you’re saying is correct. Oh well *shoulder shrugs* black women who want to create their own destiny and luck simple can and will go across the pond or search high and low!

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  52. Rae
    Dec 26, 2014 @ 12:58:29

    I think you misinterpreted what I wrote lol what I meant is usually women depend on men for protection and their best interests. Black women especially AA can not do the same. There doing what their doing as a last resort. There is no need for me to say black men have failed us in front of nonblack people because other groups of people know this. My mom had dated nonblack men and they’ve implied this and have asked questions as to why black men don’t do what their supposed to do.
    I’m not AA, I’m Caribbean american. Most of my friends are from various groups around the world ( Eastern Europeans, middle eastern, and middle eastern and Asian) there are barely any AA people in college here in NYC. Plus I don’t speak about black men with nonblack people. Serves no purpose. And I’m not invested in saving black men.

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    • HomesteadGlamourGirl
      Dec 27, 2014 @ 10:11:42

      BW interracial marriage rates have risen sharply in the past few years.

      Despite the image that might spring to mind when one thinks of the group, a man is most swayed by what’s in front of him. And the stigma against IR dating/marriage has decreased drastically in the past few decades.

      A bw with the proper mentality who presents herself in a certain has very good odds of pairing off with a quality, financially stable wm. All the bw I come across with wm look like middle-upper middle class couples. When I had dinner at the local country club with a friend, I saw another bw there (with her husband, I believe).

      I was at an outdoor gathering in the fall (dh was at home) and had to gently let the (upper-middle class, physically fit, nice looking, entrepreneur) wm that was clearly interested in me know that I was married. (Not his fault, it was chilly outside so the gloves covered my ring)

      The fact that the rates have risen so noticeably recently does give credence to Evia’s notion that the ball is in bw’s court as far as intermarriage is concerned.

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    • Silver Roxen
      Dec 28, 2014 @ 11:13:11

      It is fun! I have yet to implement the tips that I have learned from Youtube videos and articles, but I shall start soon. Yes, that was exactly what I was talking about. I used to be dressed in girly clothes i.e. dress, shoes, bows, etc. by my mother even though she was a tomboy. I stopped wearing that attire in 6th grade because I was trying to fit in with the wrong crowd. I am glad that I felt wrong about not being true to myself because I wouldn’t be the same person today. I am now in my late teens, I am going to be an adult in the summer, and I need to get back to dressing well for me. Thanks for the advice, because I noticed that I don’t have any of the staples that a woman should wear. When I went to be inducted into Beta Club most of the girls wore dresses and heels, I felf out of place and less womanly. But, know that I think of it I don’t have any of the basic clothing staples I would just buy what I liked then I would get bored with it and I didn’t spruce it up with accessories. There are many people that have asked me why I don’t curse, and I just refuse to, I don’t like it. I wished that black girls would stop consuming so much mainstream media, start questioning things, and find alternative positive entertainment. I am a naturally curious person so I questioned a whole lot of things, that no one else would and I hsve found that I am not alone in that regard. Plus if those girls consumed the media that I do they would know that they have beautiful, unique features that a lof of people secretly admire, hopefully this will change in the next few years. You’re welcome and Thank you, I know this is cliché, but 2015 is my year to stop blending in the background. Now is the time to just be me and embrace all of my facets!

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      • JaliliMaster
        Dec 28, 2014 @ 11:36:51

        Good luck with that Silver Roxen. A good idea would be to have a few style inspirations (from youtube, pinterest, instagram, fashion magazines, vintage sources, etc), for ideas. Then find a way to modify them to suit your own age group, body shape, etc. There are so many sources out there, it’s just about knowing where to look and when you do get all this information/ideas, knowing how best to utilise them so that they work well for you.

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        • Silver Roxen
          Dec 28, 2014 @ 11:50:28

          I knew I was missing a step, which is to modify the clothing to fit me. This step could solve the modesty issue. The issue that I have with clothes is that they are either too big or too tight for my petite, but curvy frame which is why I am concerned about modesty. Thank you for the advice :).

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      • Formavitae
        Dec 28, 2014 @ 16:09:08

        Silver Roxen,

        “I used to be dressed in girly clothes i.e. dress, shoes, bows, etc. by my mother even though she was a tomboy.”

        Sounds like we have several things in common. My mother was a multi-sport athlete. She had a BEAUTIFUL figure. She used to dress more stylishly, when she was younger, but she became more conservative and religious when she was older (before she had me).

        “I stopped wearing that attire in 6th grade because I was trying to fit in with the wrong crowd.”

        I did that in my later teens, but I understand.

        “I am glad that I felt wrong about not being true to myself because I wouldn’t be the same person today.”

        I understand this ALSO. I’m glad you decided to be true to yourself.

        ” Thanks for the advice,”

        You’re welcome.

        “When I went to be inducted into Beta Club most of the girls wore dresses and heels,”

        CONGRATULATIONS, ON YOUR INDUCTION!

        “I felf out of place and less womanly.”

        That’s how I feel in the context of social gatherings and parties, which is why I rarely go.

        “But, know that I think of it I don’t have any of the basic clothing staples”

        I’m actually quite particular about my appearance. So, I don’t buy many items unless I ABSOLUTELY like the fit/my appearance. That’s why I’m buckling down and losing the excess weight.

        “I would just buy what I liked then I would get bored with it”

        Sounds like me and my functional, “practical” wardrobe. My wardrobe is good for work and school, but not a feminine social life.

        “and I didn’t spruce it up with accessories.”

        I LOVE accessories and jewelry. But, I rarely wear beyond the minimum, because they strike me as “too dressy” for many of my “functional’ outfits. That’s something else I want to change.

        “There are many people that have asked me why I don’t curse, and I just refuse to, I don’t like it.”

        You sound like a lovely young lady.

        I wasn’t raised to curse. And, I never did, until I grew older and trained myself to add an occasional expletive here and there to “prove” I “didn’t want to be white”. Now, I’m working on cleaning up/out the even the minimal usage I have now. If you don’t want to curse, DON’T START, because it’s harder to break a habit, once formed.

        Another thing, I don’t curse in the workplace. I think it’s unprofessional and inappropriate. However, many people at work do. I was SHOCKED, as I work in the healthcare environment. I am amazed at some of the conversations that go on in the open. Things are far more relaxed than I’ve ever experienced or expected. But, people look at/receive me differently, as a result. Some, particularly males, seem to view me with more respect. Others seem to have a slight resentment or hostility. Nevertheless, I think I’m making the correct choice.

        “I wished that black girls would stop consuming so much mainstream media, start questioning things, and find alternative positive entertainment.”

        ME TOO. I wish MORE felt comfortable being “different” and standing apart from the crowd. I never cared about being “popular”. I cared about being kind. However, I always wanted to prove that I didn’t want to be white or dislike “real” black people.

        “I am a naturally curious person”

        So am I.

        “so I questioned a whole lot of things, that no one else would and I hsve found that I am not alone in that regard.”

        You certainly are not (“alone in that regard”). I still do the same.

        “Plus if those girls consumed the media that I do they would know that they have beautiful, unique features that a lof of people secretly admire,”

        You are absolutely correct. I was in my early 20s, when I realized how non-blacks/whites appreciated and copied physical qualities AAs had, to that point, derided.

        “hopefully this will change in the next few years.”

        I HOPE SO TOO.

        “You’re welcome and Thank you,”

        Likewise.

        “I know this is cliché, but 2015 is my year to stop blending in the background. Now is the time to just be me and embrace all of my facets!”

        It’s MY year TOO! YAY FOR US!!!

        You sound like you have a VERY *BRIGHT* FUTURE ahead!

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        • Silver Roxen
          Dec 28, 2014 @ 17:26:07

          Thank you for the congratulations. There are some young black women that have started movements which are all about being themselves. A few of them are Black Girl Nerds, Afropunks, Steamfunk, Carefree Black Girls, and more (of course the first two mentioned were always there, it is just that more people have spoken about their nonstereotypical interests). You are so right about how people receive others that use profanity. There is this one guy at school who is a sophmore and he is a snazzy dresser. He wears ties, suits, and sweater vests, and dress shoes often, he plays the guitar, and all together he has a model esque look. When I first heard him curse I was appalled, how can someone so adorable and well mannered, speak like that. I don’t think less of him, but I know that at any moment, I will be in for a surprise. I am glad I stopped lurking on thisblog and have started having conversations, I am learning and taking notes :).

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          • Formavitae
            Dec 28, 2014 @ 17:35:23

            I’m glad you stopped lurking, too. I usually lurk myself. But, there are some very good and wise people you can learn from. I’m glad you know about this site.

            Keep up the good work! 🙂

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        • Silver Roxen
          Dec 28, 2014 @ 17:36:39

          One more thing, the people who have shown hostility towards you are probably doing so because they know that once you’ve stopped cursing, you we’ll be received better by the right people. Plus if those people include females then they may have seen how the males where you work treat you with more respect now that you have stopped doing what they do. If that makes any sense.

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      • DiraD
        Dec 28, 2014 @ 20:45:34

        Good luck!

        My biggest issue was that I hated my body shape (I’m a pear), so I felt that since I was so unshapely, it didn’t matter what I wore. However, once I learned to accept my physique, I started to examine what actually looked good on me and dress accordingly.

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        • Formavitae
          Dec 28, 2014 @ 21:30:35

          Thanks, Dira!

          I understand your frustration with being bottom heavy. If I didn’t have broad shoulders, I would be a pear too. But, I read that long, slow running is the best way to slim the legs–to lose both fat AND muscle (if you so desire). So, that’s the focus of my workouts, for now.

          I’m glad you learned to accept yourself and highlight the beauty of YOUR personal characteristics. That’s always important.

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          • DiraD
            Dec 29, 2014 @ 07:57:47

            Thanks Formavitae =)

            I started doing pilates and barre exercises to slim my legs. I am the quintessential pear (narrow shoulders, slim waist, full hips/butt). Also, I came to realize that as a pear, I must maintain a reasonable weight. Pear shapes are unforgiving of excess weight.

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        • Silver Roxen
          Dec 29, 2014 @ 06:45:46

          You thought you were unshapely because you are pear shaped? I used to think I was unshapely because I am not pearshaped because most women and especially black women are. I still am not sure what my body type is, but I know what it isn’t. Well, I’ll figure it out soon enough, thanks for the encouragement! Plus I am glad that you accepted your body type because there seems to always be a lot of women who don’t like their bodies at all. I believe that everyone should work with what they got and enhance it.

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          • DiraD
            Dec 29, 2014 @ 07:59:25

            Most of the women of my family are very busty, so I felt like the odd duck. Plus, I would look at the women in rap videos with their amazing, even figures.

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            • Silver Roxen
              Dec 29, 2014 @ 08:14:21

              Most women in rap videos now and days have shapely hips and butts. Yeah I know what you mean about being the odd duck. I used to get tired of the whole you need to eat, when I most certainly love food. Last Christmas my cousin bought me a pair of pants, and I tried them on they were too big for me. He said I would grow into them, I am pretty sure I am done growing and the pants were plus size. I think he got kind of upset. That and my height I am 4″11′.

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  53. Evia
    Dec 26, 2014 @ 13:51:47

    Rae, do you realize that many Caribbean bw, especially younger ones, think similarly to AAbw? These groups influence each other and we know these days that the conditions among these groups are much the same.

    usually women depend on men for protection and their best interests.

    That’s why I’ve wondered why so many bw continue to talk about black males. LOL

    I personally advocate that bw focus on the men they want to engage in out-mingling with as well as outmarriage, so I’ve personally suggested that if bw actually do want to find it easier to mingle with non-blacks or become more appealing to non-black men, they need to stop sending the message to non-black men that they’re 2nd choice or the option of last resort. There is a clear implication in a lot of the comments from bw in these various sections that IF black males weren’t failing bw and such a BIG crushing disappointment, then non-bm wouldn’t get any mention or any interests from bw.

    But that’s just a suggestion. It sometimes seems to me that some bw think that if they talk about bm long enough, bm will be reminded to become protectors, providers, and problem solvers for bw. It often seem to me that some bw are merely giving lip service to dating non-bm, but are really kinda sorta waiting for a bm. But that’s any bw’s choice. I’m just saying it’s puzzling. Don’t think that men don’t pick up on that.

    There is no need for me to say black men have failed us in front of nonblack people because other groups of people know this.

    But you’re saying it here, which is on the world stage. But, okay, I didn’t understand you were pointing this out specifically to AA or black women.

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  54. HomesteadGlamourGirl
    Dec 26, 2014 @ 14:18:14

    I was on a site recently where a commenter flat out said that if most men were like actor Jessie Williams (marrying a typical looking bw as well as being politically aware), a white guy wouldn’t even be able to talk to her. And this is someone who dates interracially.

    That’s fine for her, but my husband has never been my second choice. I happen to like white American men. They are just men to me. Not the “wielders of global oppression”, not “saviors on white horses”–MEN. I know enough other bw feel the same (although they may not say it in unfriendly company, lol) so I’m just stating that for all the lurkers.

    What black men were doing or not doing was never a consideration for me–not when I had a crush in the 8th grade and not when I was seriously looking to get married.

    I think it’s important for bw who want to mate “out”, successfully to come to a place where black men aren’t an issue for them, positive or negative. You can’t really be happy otherwise, and life is too short to be miserable.

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    • Lynn
      Dec 26, 2014 @ 14:26:33

      @HomesteadGlamourGirl,

      I totally agree. WM are men like any other men. They just happen to as a general rule have a culture that shapes them to behave and men should: protectors and providers, versus this being the purple unicorn exception in AA BM.

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  55. Lynn
    Dec 26, 2014 @ 14:22:04

    This has been said on another blog, but I feel the need to say it here because I’m getting some strong ‘hole-drilling’ vibes from some of the bw here (mostly the younger ones, I’m guessing) concerning the ‘why’ of bw dating/marrying/procreating with non-black men.

    Someone (I can’t remember who) said: BW really need to act more like Ice T versus acting like Halle Berry when people inquire about who she’s dating and why. In an interview Ice T was asked if he was ‘worried’ about angering his BW fans because of who he married. Ice T responded: “I don’t give a f-ck who is mad that I married my wife……then a little rant followed. This really stuck with me and I began to change my mindset about how to answer nosy people.

    BW really need to stop ‘explaining’ to everybody why we date who we date. Now ranting and raving like Ice T is not something a lady would do, but in mixed company just don’t answer the question or answer the question with a question, bland comment etc. Me personally, when I’m in a certain mood I just say: “My love life is not a democracy. I date who I want to date.” And leave it at that. I might even add a little attitude to it depending on the audience. If there are a lot of WM in the audience, I might make a light statement regarding some quality I admire that as a rule WM tend to have that the typical BM does not have. That’s exactly what BM, AW, and all others do. They don’t explain or defend. BM love to trash BW, but I hope BW will not start to go down that route. It will only make us look as ‘thirsty’ and pathetic as BM look to the general public regarding WW.

    BW really need to learn that you don’t have to answer anybody. It took me DECADES to learn this. My Mom is one of those ultra ‘serious’ BW who always have to tell the ‘truth’ all the time; it took me years to deprogram myself from this ‘hole-drilling’ habit. I would especially avoid questions like these when in mixed company. WM want to be seen as men and they want to be judged on their own merits; just like us BW are struggling to do. No one wants to feel like they are a backup option.

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  56. Soul Alive
    Dec 26, 2014 @ 17:29:02

    Rae said: ” Most of my friends are from various groups around the world ( Eastern Europeans, middle eastern, and middle eastern and Asian) there are barely any AA people in college here in NYC.”

    Cmon now. Let’s not start making things up. I attend college in NYC and there are plenty of Black Americans who attend right along with me. Lets not go there with this “I’m the superior caribbean, better than Black Americans” nonsense yall are prone to.

    I was not ok with letting that fly.

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    • Rae
      Dec 26, 2014 @ 19:11:31

      Ummm I’m not at all trying to play superior. The college I attend I have only met one AA, who is a girl from Kansas. Other than that none other. The only other black people (which are mostly girls)I meet come from a african country background or the caribbean like myself . This has truly been my experience. I have a cousin that is a principle . There are barely any black AA kids going to college ready. Many caribbean kids have been suffering the same fate of AA kids. In my honest opinion, caribbeans have changed in the last decade. All in all it doesn’t matter which group is better because both are dysfunctional. I can’t tolerate it.

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    • foosrock!
      Dec 27, 2014 @ 09:22:22

      I read Rae’s experience as just that. Her college and experience. No need for you to project your insecurity on her comment.
      I also want to add that it seems Caribbean black women “accepted” the black American “struggle” as theirs, and hence why they’re starting to lose in the mating game, in my opinion. When I say “struggle” I mean they have adopted all the negatives that encompasses said “struggle”: loud, fat, oow children from multiple men, socially inept etc. I’ve noticed that slowly Africans are doing the same. Pity.

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      • Rae
        Dec 27, 2014 @ 09:45:35

        Yes sadly Caribbeans have adopted this. It’s a shame. You are also accurate in Africans slowly following. HOWEVER, in Europe(England to be exact) that is not the case. Caribbean women and girls are one of the most successful groups so are African Women! Can not say the same for Caribbean boys and men….

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      • Soul Alive
        Dec 27, 2014 @ 13:07:03

        Well, thats interesting that me pointing out that I have a different experience is being insecure. I am in New York also, so adding another viewpoint from a student in NYC is valid.

        However, I think you have a horse in this race and it isn’t on the side of Black American women. Carry on then, foosrock. You always have very unpleasant things to say about Black American women anyway. I have observed your comments here before.

        For Black American women lurking, please be careful with some of the commenters here who have not been vetted and aren’t allowed to post anywhere else as they just want to keep you beneath them so they can be the special foreign born Black woman.

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        • Rae
          Dec 27, 2014 @ 15:07:51

          I’m sorry but I agree with foosrock! The caribbean american and african american ‘community’ is absolutely and horrendously dysfunctional. There is nothing to be proud of! Black people are in serious denial. Also, black people want to be against white people but at the very same time DEPEND on them! I don’t understand why black people can’t realize why other groups of people get frustrated with us .
          When caribbean people came to the states they were doing so well. The boys got high grades. It used to be a shame to have a baby out of wedlock. Most of the caribbeans and their 20s and 30s grew up hearing ‘don’t be like those black americans!’ My mom told me the same thing! I know it Sounds bad and is hurtful but I see why! I see why african parents stress to their kids don’t be like those black americans ! Just look at what has happened to caribbean people! The out of wedlock birth BEGAN with AA people. Its like that was a warning from god to the rest of society as to the dangerous effects of that. Now all other races and groups have followed. When the family falls apart the nation falls apart! I see slowly africans have been following, I have family in canada and england and they have told my mom and I . Very sad. I strongly believe it has a lot to do with the rap music. Young black people internalize those dirty lyrics.

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          • Formavitae
            Dec 27, 2014 @ 17:08:34

            Rae,

            “There is nothing to be proud of!”

            THIS IS NOT TRUE.

            I understand the sentiment you are trying to express, but it CERTAINLY isn’t true. I’m AA. I graduated Summa cum Laude, Phi Kappa Phi, in the top 5% of my class, from a highly ranked and internationally known department. (I may not type like it, as I don’t approach online postings as academic assignments.) I also learned another AA woman I met in college YEARS ago has since gone on not only to ADVANCE her education, but she has met several WORLD LEADERS (LITERALLY) and is now an educator at a HIGHLY EXCLUSIVE educational institution. Those are two examples. And, I KNOW there are at least HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS.

            AAs are STILL doing things to be PROUD OF. But, the spotlight is on our WEAKNESSES more than our STRENGTHS. Bottom line: I’m an AA woman, and I’M PROUD TO BE AA–struggles and all. If you are a Caribbean woman, you should be PROUD of your people TOO. If YOU don’t respect your own people, why do you think ANYONE ELSE will?

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            • Khadija Nassif
              Dec 27, 2014 @ 17:24:03

              Formavitae,

              Rae just spit in every AA’s face and you’re coddling her? And encouraging her to buck up?

              Did you miss the part of her statements (read = insults) demonstrating that she wants to try to boost her low self-esteem at the expense of the AA people who created her (and other Black immigrants’) access to the goodies available in the U.S.? [Like the other bad-faith foreign BW who haunt AA women’s blogs. To be distinguished from the non-AABW who participate in AA women’s blogs in good faith.]

              I don’t understand how you can feel comfortable still engaging this individual in such a warm and friendly fashion after she spit in your face as an AA woman. It wouldn’t be me . . .

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              • Formavitae
                Dec 27, 2014 @ 18:24:22

                Khadija,

                NOTED.

                “Did you miss the part of her statements (read = insults) demonstrating that she wants to try to boost her low self-esteem at the expense of the AA people who created her (and other Black immigrants’) access to the goodies available in the U.S.?”

                Yes. That is effectively what she did.

                I didn’t appreciate it, which is why I posted a comment. However, I gave her the benefit of the doubt that she wasn’t INTENTIONALLY doing so. I was hoping that my and others’ responses would inform her and prod her to reconsider her thoughts and expressions.

                Maybe I’m TOO SOFT.

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          • Khadija Nassif
            Dec 27, 2014 @ 17:27:12

            Rae,

            You said, “I’m sorry but I agree with foosrock! The caribbean american and african american ‘community’ is absolutely and horrendously dysfunctional. There is nothing to be proud of!”

            Speak for yourself and YOUR Caribbean-American folks.

            Kindly keep MY AA ethnic group’s name out of your mouth. Especially since you clearly DON’T know what you’re talking about.

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            • Rae
              Dec 27, 2014 @ 21:00:41

              Khadija if I’m not mistaken you have 2 whole blogs discussing AA and other black peoples problems. You call AA men every name in the book. You’ve aldo said what most black people would not even dare think! You can have your opinions but i cant..?? On karazin’s blog AA women are calling AA men inferior and I’m being attacked???because you disagree with me you feel like I’m trying to feel superior??? Are you serious? I.dont.get.it.

              But thank you. I will no longer comment. I’m starting to see more and more why black women simply can’t get along and make it together. I did not have any intentions to feel ‘superior’ in anyway for the record.

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          • IamKM
            Dec 27, 2014 @ 17:28:18

            You need to slow your roll because you’ve shown yourself to be a hole driller and here to set yourself above AA BW as a Caribbean BW. I’m not the blog mistress but I’m side eyeing your participation here because you are negative and nearly every other post you make, you are trying to crap on AA BW and blame us for the failings of your ethnic group. You may be only 19 but you’ve shown that you’re no ally of AA BW.

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          • DiraD
            Dec 27, 2014 @ 22:10:56

            @Rae
            Oh no you did not just write that utter bulls—!

            Do you realize what you implied about yourself and your people? You basically said that non-AA blacks are so weak-willed, desperate and stupid that you will follow AAs even off a cliff. In trying to throw rocks at us, you really told on yourself.

            Don’t get it twisted, not all AAs caught pan-African fever. We are not thirsty for friendship with non-AA blacks.

            Stop acting like your (non-AA blacks) ish doesn’t stink. Caribbean blacks make up the majority population in their respective native countries, yet choose to live under the boots of their non-black minority populations. Y’all have the ability to control, access and direct the resources of your native countries, yet choose to either squander or sell them to outsiders. Hell, non-AA blacks are setting themselves up for Imperialism 2.0 in their native countries. Why would any AA admire or even pay attention to any group of non-AA of blacks?

            Before you start talking smack about me and mine, you better take a hard, long look at the failings of your group.

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  57. Soul Alive
    Dec 26, 2014 @ 17:37:23

    To be more clear, I see several Black American women in some of the classes I take. Especially when they are electives.

    To answer the larger issues raised, Black women cannot stop talking about the Black male because they are still invested in and want him. For all their protesting and teeth gnashing, majority are longing for their kang to come home.

    And its an interesting point about some Black women wanting white partners to ensure that their bloodline will be whitened.

    I have heard quite the opposite from some younger Black women. They tell me they are waiting on a Black male because they want full Black children.

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    • Evia
      Dec 27, 2014 @ 14:10:50

      To be more clear, I see several Black American women in some of the classes I take. Especially when they are electives.

      The research shows beyond any doubt that one thing that some segments of black American women ARE doing is getting PLENTY of college/university degrees! And this will certaibly help the BWIR Marriage rates to continue to increase–since the research also shows that people with advanced education marry at a considerably higher rate than those without..

      To answer the larger issues raised, Black women cannot stop talking about the Black male because they are still invested in and want him. For all their protesting and teeth gnashing, majority are longing for their kang to come home.

      Well, when they make their bed hard, THEY will have to lie in it–NOT I. Once again, from the old school point of view, we knew that when we went against common sense and did stupid stuff, we’d be lying in that bed all alone. No one was going to come and help us after we opened the door to any “kang.” Another thing that sensible bw need to do is to STOP supporting or defending bw kang-lovers. Just let the kangs teach these women some lessons, like only a kang can.

      I have heard quite the opposite from some younger Black women. They tell me they are waiting on a Black male because they want full Black children.

      Well, if they’re holding out for an AA kang, this proves to anyone listening or reading that kind of ridiculous statement that these women lack intelligence and wouldn’t be a loss. That’s another type of POLITICAL statement that some bw make that makes them sound like Neanderthals. These women will NEVER have a FULL-black child. It would be extremely difficult if possible at all to find an actual FULL-black AA (without any admixture) because the vast bulk of AA have had lots of admixture for generations!

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  58. Evia
    Dec 27, 2014 @ 16:01:53

    @Rae, re:

    The out of wedlock birth BEGAN with AA people.

    Rae, I know you’re a young’un, but you’d better go check with your mama on this. There are no secrets anymore. I don’t know where you’re from, but having babies out of wedlock in some Caribbean countries is very well-known. It’s SO widespread until it’s an INSTITUTION. Remember, I lived in NYC and have experience with lots of different ethnic groups. One of my best friends is a woman from that part of the world. If anything, AAs have copied this from Caribbeans because a lot of Caribbean women just accept their men fooling around with other women, making entire families with other women.

    Another thing is I have two friends who married West Indian men decades ago, and they’ve often talked about how it’s just common in certain Island countries for Caribbean men to have families with 2 or 3 women at the same time. That’s called being a baby-daddy and those mothers they’re not married to are baby mamas. You might have noticed that I never talk about Caribbean men. That’s the main reason why I was NEVER interested in them when they tried to talk to me.

    So, yeah it’s bad in both places. Don’t try to act like Caribbean folks are squeaky clean.

    Yeah, I can talk about AA dirt, but I don’t allow anyone of any race or group in any discussion to rub extra smut on AAs. So, you don’t want to go there. When Nigerians used to try to pull that mess with me, I read them their rights because I know their dirt too. One of the things I will always respect about my ex-husband is that he would remind Nigerians of their dirt too when they would try to come here and look down on AAs and Caribbeans. So, y’all need to check yourselves. Y’all have whole countries of your own but keep running here. For what? Some groups of black folks LOVE to try to puff themselves up at the expense of other blacks. It won’t ever happen around me. LOL! I don’t even allow different Nigerian tribes/ethnic groups do that to each other–because we ALL lose.

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  59. JaliliMaster
    Dec 27, 2014 @ 16:39:26

    Yes sadly Caribbeans have adopted this. It’s a shame. You are also accurate in Africans slowly following. HOWEVER, in Europe(England to be exact) that is not the case. Caribbean women and girls are one of the most successful groups so are African Women! Can not say the same for Caribbean boys and men….

    Sorry, but I just can’t anymore. That is an utterly untrue statement. I have no idea where you are getting your information from, but it is inaccurate. Every single negative stereotype of bw in America also exists with bw in UK. Granted, part of that was due to the influx (and saturation) of American media in every other part of the world, but the same way you have hole-drilling, black-kang seeking, sister soldiering, mammying etc bw in America, you have them in the UK. Just for one example, the only groups of students that perform worse than Caribbean females academically are Caribbean males and white males from a working-class background (as opposed to wm in general). Even in terms of Africans, it is only certain groups/nationalities that perform well, as opposed to all or even a majority of the average African in the UK.

    I don’t want to sound condescending, but as you are 19 years old, a lot of what you are saying is not down to experience but more a case of things you have heard or are assuming.

    I’m sorry but I agree with foosrock! The caribbean american and african american ‘community’ is absolutely and horrendously dysfunctional. There is nothing to be proud of! Black people are in serious denial. Also, black people want to be against white people but at the very same time DEPEND on them! I don’t understand why black people can’t realize why other groups of people get frustrated with us .
    When caribbean people came to the states they were doing so well.

    Doing well compared to AA’s? Really? And please, there are plenty things for various black folks from different ethnic groups to be proud of. I understand the dismay you may feel from some of the things you see around you concerning black people, but it is not healthy for you to make such negative blanket statements about the entirety of the black collective!

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  60. Evia
    Dec 27, 2014 @ 17:53:36

    Rae, it’s VERY important to know what you’re talking about before you run off at the mouth on the world stage. The internet IS the world stage. And trust me–in certain situations in the offline real world, you will pay a dear price for making slanderous statements.

    One of my readers just sent me this article link below and has offered to send me a bunch of articles on the dirty laundry in various other Caribbean countries, but this article from the Jamaican Gleaner breaks it ALL THE WAY DOWN about the OOW rate in Jamaica. It starts out with:

    “Why does Jamaica have what is probably the highest murder rate in the world?”

    And all of this is sitting right on the internet. I don’t know why anyone should try to be clueless about any of this. As I said: There are NO secrets anymore.

    From the Jamaican Gleaner:

    “The majority of Jamaicans clearly have no interest in the ‘traditional’ western married nuclear family lifestyle. Otherwise we would not have 85 per cent of babies born out of wedlock. And slavery legacy or not, our out of wedlock birth-rate has actually increased since independence.”

    http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20070204/focus/focus2.html

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  61. Khadija Nassif
    Dec 27, 2014 @ 17:56:34

    Soul Alive, Evia, JaliliMaster, and IamKM,

    THANK YOU for checking those lies told by Rae.

    As Evia said, there are NO secrets. People in general see what ALL Black ethnicities who live in the West are doing. Profiles of various sorts get started for a reason. Profiles mostly have their origin in pattern recognition.

    In addition to having the observed pattern of having multiple families with multiple women at the same time, many West Indian men have a nasty, too-often-EARNED reputation as vicious, violent woman beaters from WAAAAY back in the day.

    Like other folks, I’ve also had acquaintances and friends from various ethnicities and nationalities over the years. There are lots of reasons why many of the Caribbean (especially Haitian) women I’ve known make a point to NEVER date men from their own ethnic group. And some of these women have been honest about these reasons (honest about their own culture’s widespread dysfunctions).

    As opposed to trying to put on [fake, dishonest] airs when among AA women.

    Anyhoo, I’m going to exit this conversation at this point because I don’t like the turn it’s taken. This isn’t my blog, so before I light into Rae—for real—and tell her EVERY truthful thing I could say in response to her garbage, I’ll exit stage right. So I apologize in advance to anybody who directs any future comments to me in this thread—I’m not going to reply because I’m leaving this particular discussion.

    I’ll leave on this note to AA lurking readers: As I often discussed on my own blogs, there are a LOT of foreign Black folks who want to try to build themselves up at the expense of AA people. Meaning build themselves up at the expense of the AA ethnic group whose civil rights movement made these Black foreign bigots’ ability to flee their own failed countries to run to the U.S. possible.*

    [*The AA Civil Rights Movement led to, and influenced, the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965. Prior to African-Americans’ Civil Rights Movement, White Americans were quite clear about keeping non-Europeans out of this country. The bulk of these Black-skinned bigots wouldn’t even have been allowed into our country if it wasn’t for AA people’s civil rights movement. This is one of several things we need to remember when Black immigrant bigots get out of pocket.]

    These Black-skinned bigots only engage in that behavior to the extent that we as AAs are negligent in setting boundaries with them. Thank goodness not all foreign-origin Blacks are hate-filled bigots who are too cowardly to vent their venom on White Americans. [You’ll note that the ONLY time Black bigots get some “bass in their voice” is when they’re talking to AAs.]

    I’m very thankful for the input of those non-AA Blacks who participate in good faith in conversations at AA blogs.

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  62. Rae
    Dec 27, 2014 @ 20:44:32

    I’ve acknowledged how dysfunctional the caribbean has become. And why are u guys mentioning Jamaica to me ? I’m not surprised though Americans think the caribbean is a synonym for Jamaica. LOL Most Americans don’t even know my country exists and its not even close to jamaica! *shoulder shrugs* every caribbean country is different and has a different culture same as african countries!

    I’ve noticed that African americans seem to easily feel ‘attacked’ by african and caribbean people. At the end of the day African and carribean people do get a bit of better treatment than AA people and I think that’s what get AA people jealous and upset. My ethiopian and Malian friends have all discussed this. Again, I have acknowledged that the caribbean has become dysfunctional but for some apparent reason you guys are behaving like I didnt..??? Did I not ?

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  63. Soul Alive
    Dec 27, 2014 @ 21:19:44

    I will no longer play along after this as well. But for those lurking, please pay attention to the types of things rae says and wonder if this person is invested in seeing you do well.

    They have stated that they dont see bw-wm relationships in nyc, thats sooo untrue and now they have made up lies about Black women being in college.

    Also look at all the insults hurled in an attempt to make you, the amazing and resourceful Black American woman feel bad about her station in life.

    Dont believe any of the lies spouted by rae and their cheerleaders.

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  64. JaliliMaster
    Dec 27, 2014 @ 21:41:14

    Rae said: “Khadija if I’m not mistaken you have 2 whole blogs discussing AA and other black peoples problems. You call AA men every name in the book. You’ve aldo said what most black people would not even dare think! You can have your opinions but i cant..?? On karazin’s blog AA women are calling AA men inferior and I’m being attacked???because you disagree with me you feel like I’m trying to feel superior??? Are you serious? I.dont.get.it.”

    What names are that? If you’re going to make claims like that, you had better be able to back it up! With regards to this Karazins blog you mentioned, what does that have to do with anything being discussed here? She isn’t even BWE, and no one pretends that it is, so once again, what does what is written on that blog have to do with anyone here?!

    “But thank you. I will no longer comment. I’m starting to see more and more why black women simply can’t get along and make it together. I did not have any intentions to feel ‘superior’ in anyway for the record.”

    See, I don’t even think it was your intention to feel superior, or what others said. I actually just think that you are so used to so many negative images of black folks and so much negative information out there, that you are only able to really see black people through that lens. And because you live in America (and because western media is so widespread), the worst images of black folks that they’ll put out there are of AA’s. And be honest, those are the images of AA’s you are most comfortable with. The fact that you think the same of Caribbeans is an irrelevant point.

    I’ve acknowledged how dysfunctional the caribbean has become. And why are u guys mentioning Jamaica to me ? I’m not surprised though Americans think the caribbean is a synonym for Jamaica. LOL Most Americans don’t even know my country exists and its not even close to jamaica! *shoulder shrugs* every caribbean country is different and has a different culture same as african countries!”

    Yet, see how offended you seem to have gotten when someone else made a negative reference to a Caribbean nation, put their dirty laundry out there and on blast, and linked you to it. Not nice, is it?

    “I’ve noticed that African americans seem to easily feel ‘attacked’ by african and caribbean people. At the end of the day African and carribean people do get a bit of better treatment than AA people and I think that’s what get AA people jealous and upset. ”

    I think this is something you desperately need to tell yourself, so that whenever you see any AA getting poor treatment, you can feel that it won’t happen to you. I have a feeling that you’ll get a nasty surprise when no one cares where your granny was born, and you end up just being another n*****! Go to Canada and see whether you get that ‘better’ treatment. Go to the UK as well. It’ll be a good lesson for you!

    My ethiopian and Malian friends have all discussed this. Again, I have acknowledged that the caribbean has become dysfunctional but for some apparent reason you guys are behaving like I didnt..??? Did I not ?

    Both Ethiopia and Mali, are, for all intents and purposes, failed states. Your friends are refugees. Even for African countries, those are war-torn, unstable places. Was it not sometime last year in Mali that foreign (black arab) islamists had the audacity to enter that country and go on a violent campaign of destroying the shrines and other cultural artefacts in Timbuktu. While indigenous Malians (i.e black folks) (and I’m sure, their governments) cowered like cowards and pretty much did nothing? It’s easy to get ‘mouthy’ when you are safe in a Western nation. Real easy.

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    • Rae
      Dec 27, 2014 @ 21:59:51

      I’m not offended in anyway by evia nor khadija’s comments. Did I even say I was offended? No. Why would I be offended by the link evia posted when I’m not even jamaican ? What’s going on in Jamaica has nothing to do with me. Again, I’m not Jamaican. I’ve been to canada and the UK already. In fact my family lives there and my mom used to live there. (UK) They’ve never complained of racism. *shoulder shrugs* My ethiopian and Malian friends are not refugees. What would make you think that???

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      • JaliliMaster
        Dec 27, 2014 @ 22:33:06

        Ok, this is probably going to be my last comment to you, as I had given you the benefit of the doubt that maybe you were just naive or severely mistaken about certain things. Now, I realise that you were most likely here in bad faith. A lot of the things that your Mum told you (and that you have repeated here), quite simply, are untrue. All the things you have said about AA’s (re: being warned not to date them), is the same thing that many African youngsters living in the west are told about Caribbean’s, for the exact same reasons. You need to get off your high horse. Funny that you (and your family) have the option of living in your own county, but have chosen to live in various other countries, from the US, to Canada and the UK. Even you, you can’t hack it in America, and have made several statements about your intention to move to the UK, a country, I should add, that no one wants you in. There is noisy grumbling over the Eastern-Europeans who (1) due to being EU members, are legally entitled to be in the country, (2) are a generally hard-working bunch (3) don’t engage in too much crime, etc, yet many in the country are willing to leave the EU altogether just so that these white-skinned folks can be restricted from entry to the country. Yet, you are so convinced that these same people are eager to have your black behind turn up on these shores?

        And yes, your friends are refugees. If the options you have are stay in a foreign country, where life is far better, or return to your own home country, that is going through or had gone through years of war, famine, diseases etc, you are a refugee. It doesn’t matter if you have managed to convince yourself that you are an economic migrant. If you do not have a stable, functioning country to return to (which neither your Malian or Ethiopian friends have), then you are a refugee! Especially if they haven’t managed to become citizens.

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      • Evia
        Dec 28, 2014 @ 09:23:41

        Rae, Oh–okay your country is FAR, FAR away from Jamaica. What country would that be? LOL! Be careful. There are NO secrets anymore.

        You’re acting like an ignorant, pouting child here who insists on being in a discussion with experienced adults. Someone has taught you to be bigoted against AAs. I’m remaining in this because there are other AA bigots–just like you–out there reading this. My comments are directed at ONLY the non-AA black bigots.

        Another thing is that you non-AA black bigots KNOW that most of the BWE bloggers are black Americans/African Americans, but y’all INSIST on coming among us and sucking up the FREE goodies that we generously share in order to uplift ALL of us, but instead of saying “THANK YOU” and “WE’RE ETERNALLY GRATEFUL,” some of you still try to smear feces on AAs. ALL black folks are currently in the cesspool. But some of you try to pretend that your part of the cesspool smells better than our part–when the fact is that there are NO secrets. You scurried out of your FAR-away-from-Jamaica country for a reason.

        I have NOTHING to do with AA men. I have NOTHING to do with any other blog writer. But when you smear feces on AA women by saying that women in my group started the OOW epidemic among western black women, you’re defiling me AND my female ancestors and you’re showing that you’re very ignorant about the history of ALL black people in the DIASPORA. When you don’t know what you’re talking about, you need to get humble and shut up–NOT start pouting or going into denial, and lying about what you didn’t say when we can all read.

        Whatever FAR away country you’re from (lol), you’re still a part of the Black DIASPORA. So, I’m going talk to you the way I talked to my children whenever (as children) they used to show their ignorance: Instead of being on the internet, pouting and showing all of YOUR ignorance, you need to go and READ some books about YOUR Black Diasporan history and about the actual conditions for blacks in your FAR- -away-from-Jamaica-country. Once again, what country would that be?

        And since you non-AA black bigots consider AA women to have started the baby mama epidemic (that was already an institution in the Caribbean BEFORE it became an issue in this country), then WHY do you high and mighty folks even come around us on the internet???? Normally, I don’t say anything because I’ve gotten along well with non-AA blacks. Offline, they know how to act. Most of them who weren’t born yesterday know the price AAs have paid for them to be able to come to this country and remain here. But if or when on a few occasions, they tried to act high and mighty or like they weren’t grateful, I didn’t hesitate to point out their delusions. Unlike some AA women, I know that no one is higher than me on any scale even if they’re having delusions that they are. And when I look at other AA women, I don’t see them as being low on any totem pole that some of them have been okey-doked into believing they are. I won’t tolerate smut thrown at us as a group.

        Anyway, you’ve shown that you don’t have MANNERS or home-training–that you were supposed to get from that FAR away country you’re from.

        But what I still want to know is why is it that despite the fact that Khadija has put y’all non-AA black bigots on blast a number of times, y’all can’t even be pried loose from our sites. LOL!

        Again: As Khadija and I have pointed out to some of you, if not for AAs, NONE of you non-AA black bigots would even be able to come to this country OR remain here. This is documented for anyone who can or will read. Without AAs, even if you had sneaked into this country, you’d be hunted like rats. It’s AAs (and that means mostly AA WOMEN) who stupidly shield alla our people and fight to lift the boats for ALL folks, and that includes everybody who is not a heterosexual white male.

        Learn how to show gratitude. That will take you far.

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        • FoxyCleopatra
          Dec 28, 2014 @ 12:29:32

          “ALL black folks are currently in the cesspool. But some of you try to pretend that your part of the cesspool smells better than our part–when the fact is that there are NO secrets.”

          PRECISELY!

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      • IamKM
        Dec 28, 2014 @ 10:29:59

        I’m sorry, my ancestors who were slaves and then free, before and after the end of slavery, did not strive for people like you. People like you who are ungrateful and seek to smear all AAs when your own people have failed and failed hard in their own countries.

        Some of my ancestors helped found several HBCUs and helmed two of the most famous ones through the late 19th Century when things were really hard for AAs. Others helped create the legacy that AAs have today and helped build things in the North and South that created the bedrock of what became the Civil Rights Movement. Without that and without the civil rights movement, YOU wouldn’t be here in the USA.

        No other country really wants people of black skin, lets be honest. When I’ve visited Europe, I was treated like a princess because I’m an AMERICAN. The Africans in the continental countries, many of them were treated like refuse because they were seen as refugees, leeches on their country. I can’t speak on England because I haven’t visited there. Similar when I’ve visited Canada, a country I’ve visited numerous times. The non-AA black people there have created a mess that is in some ways worse than here because it took the Caribbeans basically 30-40 years after immigrating to create that mess. But then, they took their behaviors from the islands with them. AAs always had a subsection that had bad behavior but we never embraced depravity like that until roughly 45-50 years ago. That was right about the same time Caribbeans came to the USA in droves, if you want to go there.

        Basically, you may not be an AA BW but be bloody thankful that AAs like my family and others fought and made it possible for people like you to come here and live here. And if you aren’t and you move somewhere else, I bet with that attitude you have, you’ll be wishing you were back in the USA quick, fast, and in a hurry.

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        • Formavitae
          Dec 28, 2014 @ 15:03:52

          WOW!

          You have an AMAZING FAMILY HISTORY.

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          • IamKM
            Dec 28, 2014 @ 15:26:13

            Thank you!

            I knew some things about my family but I learned more over the past year. That makes me really angry when non-AA black people start talking slick.

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            • Formavitae
              Dec 28, 2014 @ 16:25:08

              IamKM,

              YOU’RE WELCOME.

              Knowing one’s history is IMPORTANT. I am glad you were able to learn such inspiring things about yours.

              I, too, do not appreciate when others who benefit from the historical struggle of AAs in this country try to “look down” upon us or use us as a “footstool” to gain a higher status in this country. It also upsets me when they don’t realize how much AAs have contributed to their opportunities and ability to achieve success in the United States.

              The legacy of my ancestors is what pushes me to move forward and achieve the best I can in life and to set a good example for my/our posterity.

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        • Karen
          Dec 30, 2014 @ 08:22:36

          As I live in Western Europe, I can confirm that being an AA BW does put you in a special category and you are not viewed as a someone coming here to “work th system” (however, there are examples of that as has been discussed already in this thread where I may my position on it quite clear).

          When Rae asked where I lived, I, purposely, chose not to provide further details as I did not like the undercurrent I perceived with her comments. My intuition proved to be correct.

          I as a proud AA BW see no reason or need to provide helpful information to someone who has demonstrated that they are not an ally to me or my tribe and have the audacity to speak ill of my people who made it possible for her and her ilk to even be in the U.S.

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  65. DiraD
    Dec 27, 2014 @ 22:25:21

    I’m going to make like a tree and leave. Thank you Rae for showing your true colors, it’s always nice when an enemy shows their a**.

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  66. Formavitae
    Dec 27, 2014 @ 22:44:49

    Rae,

    “I’ve acknowledged how dysfunctional the caribbean has become.”

    I noticed that.

    “And why are u guys mentioning Jamaica to me ?”

    Jamaica was used simply as an example.

    “I’m not surprised though Americans think the caribbean is a synonym for Jamaica.”

    I’m 99.999% certain that’s not the case here–PARTICULARLY, not with Evia or Khadijah, as both are highly and extensively educated.

    “I’m not offended in anyway by evia nor khadija’s comments. Did I even say I was offended? No.”

    The tone of your subsequent responses sound “defensive”.

    “Khadija if I’m not mistaken you have 2 whole blogs discussing AA and other black peoples problems.”

    True. But, she has also made it clear that she is focusing on AA issues and unique circumstances.

    “You call AA men every name in the book.”

    I’ve never heard her use “every name in the book”. But, everything I’ve ever read by her has been TRUE AND ACCURATE.

    “You’ve aldo said what most black people would not even dare think!”

    VERY TRUE. I RESPECT THAT ABOUT HER.

    “You can have your opinions but i cant..??”

    Right now, I feel like this is an issue more of DELIVERY rather than OPINION (if you are sincere about not trying to seem “superior”.)

    “On karazin’s blog AA women are calling AA men inferior and I’m being attacked???”

    No one in this thread has made such a claim. You aren’t being “attacked”. You’re being told to SHOW *DESERVED* RESPECT.

    “because you disagree with me you feel like I’m trying to feel superior??? Are you serious?”

    When you make claims that basically following AAs is leading to the downfall of non-AA blacks and that you understand why you were advised by your mother NOT “to be like those AA blacks”, THAT sounds like you’re suggesting AAs are “morally deficient” and corrupting the “morally excellent” non-AAs.

    ” I.dont.get.it.”

    It seems that way. I hope after reading others’ responses things are much clearer.

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  67. Formavitae
    Dec 28, 2014 @ 05:20:14

    I am SO DISAPPOINTED this WONDERFUL discussion took such a horrible turn.

    I really enjoyed communicating with you ladies.

    Have a blessed New Year.

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  68. Jade
    Dec 28, 2014 @ 07:14:18

    I am disappointed that you ladies allowed a 19 year girl to get to you.

    Rae is living in a fantasy world. Although I am in favor of BW marrying interracially, both AABW and non-AABW like Rae will learn the hard way that white men in general are not interested in marrying and saving BW and that moving “across the pond” is not the solution for 99.99999% of the BW who are unhappy with life in America. America is still the number one (desired) destination for black people of all ethnic groups and if we were willing/able to take in everyone, the black population in European countries would be practically zero.

    In spite of all the problems in America, it is still the best country for BW (of any ethnic group). There is no country on the planet (that I am aware of) where the BW are doing so well and also have the POTENTIAL to do well. As bad as it is for us here in America, it is 10 times worse for most BW outside the US.

    Is Rae not aware of Halima’s blog? Halima is a Black Briton. If BW in the UK were doing so well, why did Halima feel the need to create her blog?

    Now I am not suggesting that no BW should leave America in search of greener pastures. There are BW who will definitely find a better life outside the US. The truth is that IR relationships are more common among black European women because the black populations in European countries are relatively small. European white men are no more eager to marry BW than white American men, and Europe is no less racist than America. If you can’t find a quality white man to marry you here in America, you probably won’t find a quality white man to marry you in Europe or Canada. Many BW in Europe/Canada are baby mamas who are living off the system, just like many BW here in America. Or they are married to working class white men.

    I know educated AA and non-AA women living in various European countries and they are having trouble finding quality white men who are willing to MARRY them. Don’t let women like Foosrock convince you that Europe is an IRR haven and that BW who run across the pond will find their white Price Charming and have a great life. Europeans are getting sick of black people (and other non-white foreigners).

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    • Evia
      Dec 28, 2014 @ 17:37:46

      @Jade, re

      I am disappointed that you ladies allowed a 19 year girl to get to you.

      You’re making Rae sound like she’s 2 years old or retarded. In the U.S., a 19- year old is an adult who faces the consequences for ANY violation of the law they commit. 19 year olds can vote. They are licensed to drive huge vehicles. They can get loans. They are sent off to fight in wars and are given big guns to kill people. They can sign any type of contract. ETC. ETC. So I take 19 year-olds quite seriously. when they’re doing damage.

      Personally speaking, if she had been 9 or even younger, I would still have set her straight. It’s very telling that she felt she could tell an image-smearing lie of that magnitude about AA women in the presence of a whole bunch of AA women!!. She certainly could NOT sit around ANY group of women I’ve encountered and say anything like that about those women. This is exactly why AA women are blamed for practically everything now. Seems that no matter what happens these days, somebody tries to pin the blame on AA women. This would even be comical if the results weren’t so serious. AA women can shrug and act like it’s no big deal, but each of these lies drills another hole in the boat. A lot of people would just believe Rae because most people don’t think. They’re shjeep. There are a bunch of lies out there right now floating around about AA women as a group that many folks are convinced are 100% true.

      I do not advocate that any AA woman become aggressive or loud, but any lie should be pounced on, sliced and diced, and the liar should be pressed on the spot to present the proof. Otherwise, they should be told flat out it’s a lie. The word “lie” is not a curse word. And I definitely don’t give a bleep if someone or their mama becomes perturbed with me when I tell them that they are lying and smearing my image.

      Rae is living in a fantasy world. Although I am in favor of BW marrying interracially, both AABW and non-AABW like Rae will learn the hard way that
      white men in general are not interested in marrying and saving BW and that moving “across the pond” is not the solution for 99.99999% of the BW

      Just so you know I noticed the poison drip you wormed into your comment. You couldn’t wait to come in here to drop that stuff about “wm not interested in marrying bw,” could you? LOL You already know that it’s statements like that that cause SOME bw to doubt themselves. Those kind of statements– also known as lies–make some bw feel hesitant and fearful around wm, and rob them of confidence when they think about mingling socially with wm or about dating a wm. They’ve heard these kinds of comments so many times from “concerned” black folks especially who love to step up and tell bw the “TRUTH.” Yeah, right! You know exactly what you’re doing.

      But what I will always urge these women is to do is: “Take a chance. As long as you take your time and carefully vet every man and always, always, always protect yourself, you have nothing to lose.”

      As my grandmother used to say: “A closed hand lets nothing get out, but nothing gets in either.” She and my mother empowered me to be adventurous, use common sense, take chances and always be open to finding gems outside my immediate surroundings.

      The fact is that there’s a number of bw participating in this thread right now who are already MARRIED to wm and been MARRIED for years to those wm and have several children by the wm who MARRIED them. If they had swallowed your poison drops, they wouldn’t be married.

      No one here has even mentioned anything about wm SAVING bw. IF you’re a bw, did you strike out with a wm or were used or otherwise done wrong by a white man and so you now want to try to weaken the chances of another bw finding her Mr. ONE CQLL man who may happen to be white?

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  69. Evia
    Dec 28, 2014 @ 09:57:29

    @Formavitae, re:

    I am SO DISAPPOINTED this WONDERFUL discussion took such a horrible turn.

    I, too, was tempted to step out of this, but this is exactly how the ABCs among AAs took over the AA image and became the spokespeople for ALL of us. The ABCs now represent ALL of us. Back in the late 80s and early 90s, MOST AAs with common sense decided to just get quiet–to avoid friction and avoid the appearance of disunity–and allow the idiotic ABCs to have their say. That may not seem like much time, but in today’s 24-7 media-driven world, 20-30 years is way more than enough time to destroy the image of a people. We can certainly see how the image of AA women has been decimated.

    Being quiet when someone is trying to smear your image is suicidal and as we can see, that decision to remain silent and allow the ABCs to represent us has resulted in AAs being at the brink of genocide.

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    • Formavitae
      Dec 28, 2014 @ 14:45:55

      Evia,

      Yes. Yes.

      ALL OF THIS IS HORRIBLE.

      But, there have been very beneficial and edifying messages shared in this exchange.

      “Being quiet when someone is trying to smear your image is suicidal and as we can see, that decision to remain silent and allow the ABCs to represent us has resulted in AAs being at the brink of genocide.”

      Allowing the ABCs to “have their say” for economic gain TRULY HAS ruined the AA collective and reputation in MANY WAYS. IT IS important to guard one’s reputation and integrity.

      I’m glad you decided to stick around. You always make such WONDERFUL and HIGHLY VALUED contributions. I was actually SHOCKED when you said,

      “So, y’all need to check yourselves.”

      I ain’t know YOU TALKED like that. Lol.

      That was a good example of TACTFUL but EFFECTIVE “self-defense”. I need to work on that. I just don’t talk about things/people with which I’ve had little/no education or experience. My personal confidence comes from my knowledge base. Nevertheless, in ALL situations I appreciate my ancestry and AM PROUD of my people.

      Once again, TRULY……..Thanks.

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  70. JaliliMaster
    Dec 28, 2014 @ 10:42:27

    Just as a general side-note, I think this is a good lesson on how to spot someone who it is best to keep at arms length. This commenter has made several comments on previous occasions that I gave a side-eye to. However, I ignored them because I knew their age, so put it down to immaturity and lack of any real type of experience. We can now see that what seemed, on the surface, to be negativity and deep pessimism, was actually something far more sinister.

    Also, because they were being just as demeaning to Caribbeans, at first glance, one might not have thought that they were trying to s**t on AA’s, but pay attention to what they actually said. Never, in ANY of her comments, did she ever say even one demeaning or derogatory thing about her own specific ethnic group. She always conveniently used the catch-all term of ‘Caribbean’. She has still, conveniently, failed to disclose what her ethnicity is, knowing full well that all their dirty laundry can be easily obtained by the click of a button on the good ‘ole internet. See how happy she was to even crap all over Caribbeans, but the moment we got specific, she was all too keen to point out that her ethnic group/country of origin (whatever it is), is not like those Jamaicans. At first, I actually felt sorry for her because it seemed like someone so young was in some sort of pity-party, where all black folks are just so bad and so lost. I now realise that whenever she made those demeaning comments, she was always excluding her own group from it.

    If she was not a teenager, I probably would have called her out a while ago, (like her comments about bw dating in NY, which is obviously bs), but I used the softly softly approach as I thought it would be more effective. As she later revealed herself, it wasn’t a pity-party she was engaged in, it was all about crapping on others to feel better about oneself!

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    • Silver Roxen
      Dec 28, 2014 @ 12:04:35

      I didn’t want to speak on this, but I should learn how to decipher if someone is an ally or not. I knew there was something strange about her comment on dating prospects in NY. Plus she said that she interacts with people of different ethnic groups, so I don’t see how she would have trouble with dating. I find it sad that she tried to get away with saying all of those demeaning things about African Americans, when speaking to us, just because she has observed these things especially the part about education.

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      • Khadija Nassif
        Dec 28, 2014 @ 12:44:20

        Silver Roxen,

        Your “how to spot an ally or enemy” is a VERY important question. One that I’ve dipped back into the conversation to speak on. JaliliMaster has been telling folks right in her comments. Her comment right above your question is a very shrewd one. This little episode *has* been a very good lesson in how to spot folks you should keep at arm’s length.

        The most important thing is to listen to your gut reactions to people. DON’T give any benefits of any doubt to anybody who hasn’t already PROVEN by their actions to be in your corner. Not lip service, but ACTIONS.

        Benefit of the doubt needs to be EARNED not freely given away.

        Strangers certainly don’t deserve any benefit of the doubt.

        Acquaintances who’ve never done anything to benefit you don’t deserve any benefit of the doubt.

        “Family” members who’ve never done anything to benefit you don’t deserve any benefit of the doubt.

        The only people who deserve the benefit of the doubt are people whose ACTIONS have demonstrated that they’re looking out for you and looking out for your interests.

        If your gut reaction is look side-eyed or feel “funny” in reaction to something or somebody, listen to your gut. Because there’s almost always something wrong that’s causing that gut reaction.

        Unfortunately, a lot of AA women have been programmed to ignore their gut reactions and to keep smiling at predators. To keep being friendly to predators. A lot of AA women have been programmed to ignore subtle clues and wait until there’s conclusive “proof” that somebody is an enemy before they stop giving that enemy the benefit of the doubt, and before they stop grinning and skinning with that enemy.

        Well, if you ignore the gut instincts that God gave you for your own protection, and wait for concrete “proof,” then it’s already too late: the predator will have already chewed you up, gotten over on you, or done something else to harm you—WITH your cooperation.

        This “give them the benefit of the doubt” and “wait for concrete ‘proof'” brainwashing is what keeps many AA women grinning at and cuddling up to folks who throw urine in their faces. Like the way Rae verbally threw urine in AA women’s faces here.

        In this case, my reactions were similar to the ones that JaliliMaster described in her comment right above your question. I had noticed that over the course of several blog post conversations, this Rae commenter mostly had negative and pessimistic things to say. I noticed a lot of negativity with this person, but I didn’t know what was driving that negativity. But all that negativity gave me a bad gut reaction, so I knew to be on guard with Rae’s comments and to be watchful. Most people will eventually tell on themselves. Which is what happened here.

        Bottom line: Listen to your gut reactions to people, things and ideas. If something feels “off” or doesn’t feel right about somebody, keep your distance.

        Okay, I’m out for real now—LOL! Happy New Year!

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    • FoxyCleopatra
      Dec 28, 2014 @ 12:41:15

      ITA,

      Her comment about bw dating ir in NY was just odd. Apart from California (LA specifically) I don’t know of anywhere else in the US where you would come across more frequent sightings of bw in ir……….then here poor me poor me bw have it so bad……..then her monologue about having such a large and diverse group of friends yet finding it so hard to date ir……….then her nonsense about colleges and there being no AAs there……I’m just like ok ‘this girl needs to take a seat!’

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    • Formavitae
      Dec 28, 2014 @ 15:10:01

      JaliliMaster,

      She sounded young and DISTRAUGHT, to me.

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  71. FoxyCleopatra
    Dec 28, 2014 @ 12:25:46

    Rae,

    I’ll try to be as nice as possible. For the past 3 or so weeks, I’ve been reading several of your comments, and they have been irritating me but I’ve let them go because of your age. Now however, you have revealed yourself. I really don’t know what your angle is here, but I can tell you for a matter of fact that you are talking utter rubbish.

    Black-Caribbean men in the uk reject Black-Caribbean women as partners at a much larger rate than AA men do with AA women. I’m sick of hearing these lies a lot of Carribean women tell on these blogs about their men. As for the whole ‘Caribeans are doing well in Europe’……please stop! They as a collective are not. The Black British population is split about 49% Caribean, 48% African and the remaining ‘other’. Why don’t you have a look at what percentage of black students in UK universities are of Caribbean decent. Last year, only ONE black Carribean student got into Oxbridge (Oxford and Cambridge). It was news when the Prime Minister complained that how could there only be one black undergraduate be admitted. The school boards then had to correct him and say that several black students where admitted (African AND there probably would have been AAs among them) but that the number (1) was only in reference to the Caribean student entry and not the total black student entry. I would probably hazard a guess to say that there are more AAs in Oxbridge than there are Carribean students.

    As for the black marriage rates, Caribbeans hardly make up any of it. I can count on ONE hand (yes that implies no more than 5) the number of MARRIED Carribean couple I have met here in the UK where both are black. Most of them were older (ie my aged between my parents and grandparents).

    Please I do not want other Black Caribeand reading my comment to feel like this is some sort of attack. It is not. I just needed to point out some facts to someone who was filling this place with some serious bs.

    Also, I am yet to read the last few comments, but I noticed that you still have not said what country exactly you are from. I wonder why….’side eye’.

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    • FoxyCleopatra
      Dec 28, 2014 @ 12:27:04

      sorry, I didn’t mean for all of that section to be in bold. oops

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    • JaliliMaster
      Dec 28, 2014 @ 13:16:05

      “I would probably hazard a guess to say that there are more AAs in Oxbridge than there are Carribean students.”

      You know, that never actually even occurred to me, but now that you mention it, it might actually be true. There have been AA students at Oxbridge in the past (particularly as graduate students), so I would imagine that it is possible, and even likely, that there are more there now than the solitary Caribbean that was able to gain admission!

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  72. Felicia Kemper
    Dec 28, 2014 @ 14:47:19

    Proverbs 17:28

    Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips esteemed a man of understanding.

    Abraham Lincoln

    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

    There are some SERIOUS teachable moments occurring here. Which is the only positive out of a discussion that could have been easily avoided. Especially since this anti African-American bigotry came totally out of left field.

    Lesson learned? Never bring a knife to a gunfight.

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  73. Neecy
    Dec 28, 2014 @ 15:34:21

    Hey y’all!

    I haven’t had a chance to read all the comments. But from the jist of the ones I had to approve in moderation I’ve read there is anti AFRICAN AMERICAN sentiments going on, and I won’t tolerate that.

    I’m so sorry I haven’t been able to really interact as I have family in town so I haven’t been able to spend the time I want commenting and reading. I trust the ladies here and you all are very intelligent so I gave no worries that the situation is being handled.

    I’ll be back later tonight to read what’s happening and will go from there.

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  74. Neecy
    Dec 28, 2014 @ 15:48:44

    Also I’m going to hold Rae’s comments from posting freely until I can read what she’s written here.

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  75. APA
    Dec 28, 2014 @ 17:43:27

    Khadija, Silver Roxen, and JaliliMaster:

    I hear you loud and clear about the importance of learning how to identify allies. I can attest to the importance of trusting your gut instincts about the people around you. Recently, I ignored my gut instincts about an individual that I considered a “friend” and almost paid for it. From my experience, I can say that trust and loyalty in a relationship takes time to build. People need to have a track record of actions proving they are in your corner in order to be considered an ally. Beware of individuals that you seem to click with almost immediately or who seem to latch on to you very quickly. I’m happy that I learned the above lesson early in life when the stakes are not as high. I’ll continue to be the open and friendly person that I am, but I’m more vigilant about my boundaries.

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  76. Neecy
    Dec 28, 2014 @ 18:33:25

    I would like to thank every single one of you whom felt the need to defend America and AA’s from attack. I too find this exhausting and have experienced having to do the same in other situations.

    Once again I apologize i wasn’t able to stop it before it started, but maybe there was a good reason for that, as you all dropped some serious knowledge here in response.

    I have made a new post on this very issue if you want to take the discussion there. And i am sorry that discussion got derailed with that. Derailing happens and I am not going to delete any posts because I think we all kinda had an ephphany and learning experience.

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